Playing for Comps

starting a new thread, the quotes are from the "Maximizing Bankroll for Comps" thread.

two quotes in reply to me saying "'Don't play for comps' is advice that has been around for a long time."

Quote: AxelWolf

That would depend on the type of comps, what games you are playing and your financial situation. If you could play a breakeven or close game and earn thousands in comps at a good rate it might be worth it to some, especially if comps can be used in the gift shops.

Quote: RS

It's also not necessarily good advice. I've heard plenty of awful advice in my day. Much advice is interpreted incorrectly, particularly this snippet above about not playing for comps.

OK, I'm going to take this on.

First, neither of you are "wrong" - but I think the expression is generally good advice. Yes, you can say "it depends" and "not necessarily". And I am talking about comps in the usual sense, not freeplay etc. which has clear indisputable value.

Your protests sound pretty defensive though, so what's up? I think most of the time comps are valued too highly in the calculation. In order to get true value, if using it, the comp has to be something you would be doing anyway. Essentially, the comped player is living a certain lifestyle for a certain price, and really needs to ask two questions, "is this what I would be doing if I didn't gamble?" and *if* so "how much would I pay for it if I shopped for best deals anyway?" Not just simply "what does the casino say it is worth?" And the prices in the gift shop? Ouch.

So I'm saying that if the expression makes you defensive, maybe you have questioned some of this yourself.

Certainly it is not a question of whether the comps should be used or not. If an AP is money ahead without figuring on comps, the comps are there as a bonus. If the comps are required in order to say the play is +EV, then I think it's time to question the effort. Maybe the player can ask "what could I sell these comps for if I could sell them?" If that amount takes it to +EV, OK.

Have you read Comp City?
Most of those tricks won't work anymore, but embracing the attitude will help you come up with new ones.

Quote: odiousgambit

starting a new thread, the quotes are from the "Maximizing Bankroll for Comps" thread.

two quotes in reply to me saying "'Don't play for comps' is advice that has been around for a long time."

Quote: RS

It's also not necessarily good advice. I've heard plenty of awful advice in my day. Much advice is interpreted incorrectly, particularly this snippet above about not playing for comps.

OK, I'm going to take this on.

First, neither of you are "wrong" - but I think the expression is generally good advice. Yes, you can say "it depends" and "not necessarily". And I am talking about comps in the usual sense, not freeplay etc. which has clear indisputable value.

Your protests sound pretty defensive though, so what's up? I think most of the time comps are valued too highly in the calculation. In order to get true value, if using it, the comp has to be something you would be doing anyway. Essentially, the comped player is living a certain lifestyle for a certain price, and really needs to ask two questions, "is this what I would be doing if I didn't gamble?" and *if* so "how much would I pay for it if I shopped for best deals anyway?" Not just simply "what does the casino say it is worth?" And the prices in the gift shop? Ouch.

So I'm saying that if the expression makes you defensive, maybe you have questioned some of this yourself.

Certainly it is not a question of whether the comps should be used or not. If an AP is money ahead without figuring on comps, the comps are there as a bonus. If the comps are required in order to say the play is +EV, then I think it's time to question the effort. Maybe the player can ask "what could I sell these comps for if I could sell them?" If that amount takes it to +EV, OK.

I agree that in general its probably good advice to not play for comps, especially since most of the time it's -EV. I'm sure I have also said you shouldn't be playing for comps. I would never suggest someone who really doesn't know what they are doing play for comps. I would never suggest to anyone that isn't financially secure play for comps. There are people who entice themselves or justify gambling because of the comps. They might lose 1k+ in EV for few free rooms and some food.

Let's say a place was generous and they offered .5 in comps and they ran something like a 20x points promo. I would play that in a heartbeat, even if I had to give up 1%-2% on the game. I might even give up more, depending on the location and what the comps were good for. I would have to ask myself if would I buy the comps at whatever my expected loss is? I certainly would not go hog wild trying to earn a sh*t-ton worth of comps, and I'm not going to play some higher denomination super volatile game.

Most AP's that I know have played just for comps at one time.

It also depends on the value you put on the entertainment of playing in the Casino.

A career AP wouldn't put a value of $0 on the entertainment, since he/she is at work. An AP likely doesn't not put much value towards food/room comps either. But it's a totally different story for someone who wants to hustle some comps and get free/cheap vacations.

I'd gladly pay $150 for a $100 food comp if it means I was able to play for 6 hours and get a free room, but that's a losing proposition for a full time pro.

I haven't read Comp City yet, but I did read frugal gambler 1/2 and thought they were great. Some of it is dated, but it still has good advice and will lead you to places to start looking. You aren't going to find many big opportunities spelled out step by step in the book or a forum anyway.

I play for comps all the time. It is not unusual for me to meet some friends at a bar that has video poker. We sit around and socialize while I play a 97.7% video poker game at $1.25 per hand and I get all my drinks comped. For me that is +EV as I play as slow as possible.

Quote: DRich

I play for comps all the time. It is not unusual for me to meet some friends at a bar that has video poker. We sit around and socialize while I play a 97.7% video poker game at $1.25 per hand and I get all my drinks comped. For me that is +EV as I play as slow as possible.

This and some of the other responses are in the category of getting something you want to do anyway and paying less.

Also, in no way am I saying you shouldn't take advantage of the comps you get, or angle to get better comps.

Quote: odiousgambit

This and some of the other responses are in the category of getting something you want to do anyway and paying less.

I agree, I just hate the statement "Don't play for comps". Maybe the common statement should be "Don't play for comps when your expected loss is greater than the amount you value the comp at".

If you are already playing some game in the casino, then ABSOLUTELY try to maximize what they will give you. After all, the casinos dont care about you and how much you lose. However, to say just play for comps is not a good idea and somewhat sleazy. Sure , take advantage where you can on their offerings, but to manipulate the system into getting yourself some dinner, drinks, shows, rooms or whatever sounds like a waste of time and money to me. Put that effort into a real business or work opportunity as opposed to gaming the system.

Ive seen so many people over the years play additional hours on the craps table just to get a 20 comp. They would lose 10x that amount by sticking around, but then justify it by saying they had a free dinner. Its just plain irrational thinking.... and a psychological rationalization to justify their gambling behavior.

I was playing at a BJ table at the Mirage awhile back when a pitcritter strolled up and asked if anyone wanted tickets to see Danny Ganz. I got two tickets and the dealer said he usually came by at this time as they didn't sell out midweek. Took two tickets and sold them for $80. This was on Thursday, show was dark on Monday. Guess where I played on Tuesday?
Made that play about five times in the six weeks I was there.
Used to joke about comp sucking.

Quote: RS

It's also not necessarily good advice. I've heard plenty of awful advice in my day. Much advice is interpreted incorrectly, particularly this snippet above about not playing for comps.

I wasn't trying to be defensive of it. Just saying it's not necessarily good advice. And it can be interpreted incorrectly. Some people might take it to mean "don't play for free-play" or "don't play for promotions". They think it means just play to have fun and anything else is extra. They view mailers, promotions, etc. all as "extra". They think doing $10k coin in on VP for $1k in FP is stupid because you're "playing for comps".

I don't really play for comps (food, rooms, etc.), but I have on occasion. I know of one place [that everyone probably knows about] where something like $10k coin in per month got you like $300 in food plus $200 in FP, playing a 99.9% game, and you could do it every month. If I lived near the casino [and I liked the food], I'd probably absolutely do that.


There was a potential play about 6-12 months ago where you could get all sorts of stuff for really cheap in -EV. Like Xbox's, playstations, big TV's, and I don't remember what else. Bastards un-gaffed the machine, though. :(

odiousgambit,

for me, it was the opposite, at least in the beginning.

I love playing craps, thus my username.
i didn't care about comps.
i played because i liked the game.

then I discovered e-Craps and with it, comps.

I loved that game so much (speed, no players arguing with dealers, can press bets in weird increments like Place $492 on the 6/8, no tipping, etc) that I did ~$1M coin-in (including odds which counted towards rewards points) in a year.

i made their 2nd highest tier level and discovered a world with a whole bunch of perks.
the only 2 i used were the free food in the VIP lounge and 'free' cruises.
the food quality beat Caesar's Diamond lounges by a mile.
and as the cherry on top, i was up $5k!

then the next year the casino doubled the coin-in for a rewards point on the e-Craps machine. :(
that was the last time i seriously played Craps.

that was because a Caesars opened up near me.
made Diamond playing VP and haven't looked back at the other casino except for Poker.
Competition works! :)

Plus my positive variance streak was still going by being up +$1k with no Royal in doing the DiaD!

then made Aspirations Lvl 1 for 2 years in a row although the 2nd year i did lose $ getting it.
but i had fun playing that VP game.
now that they no longer offer 5k TC towards next year's score for making Aspirations Lvl 1, im not going to try this year.

so yes, i now take comps into consideration when playing.
i find playing a game i like (VP) + comps (free food/rooms) provides a more fun experience than playing a game i love (e-Craps).

now my thought process might be different if i was losing $ such that I've more than paid full price for the free food/comps...

Some
Of the best plays I have been on where for comps-
It just depends on what the comps are for and good on
Mohegan sun has a mall to use the comps
At one point there was a huge play and I ended up with 80k in comps at a cost of 7k in ev

Quote: 100xOdds

odiousgambit,... yes, i now take comps into consideration when playing.

Well, I am being put into the position of defending any and all cases that are an exception to the general concept. But I can't pull that off.

What I can say is the expression is one that newcomers to casino gambling need to hear. The closer the player resembles a ploppy the more he needs to hear it. The more he resembles a smarter player, the more he figures it out himself [for the classic case of increasing theoretical losses on purpose, beyond what he needs for entertainment, to get actual lessor values in comps as a result]

Quote: odiousgambit

for the classic case of increasing theoretical losses on purpose, beyond what he needs for entertainment, to get actual lessor values in comps as a result

ahh.. that's what you mean by 'playing for comps.'
playing beyond your normal entertainment quota for that shiny object the casino is dangling in front of you.

I used to do that often but in poker.
at a CET casino, they used to give 50 TC per hr for poker.
10hrs = 500tc +125 bonus tc
(they have since cut it back to 17tc per hr.. sigh)

my normal play limit is 6-8hrs at the poker table.
after that, it's gets to be a chore because sitting for that long gets to be tiring on the body.
but i'll stick it out to 10hrs to get the extra 125 tc.

I guess it wasnt -EV on my bankroll since im apparently better than the avg low limit casino poker player as evidenced by my poker win/loss diary.
but it was -EV on my body.

I used to play very big, not to the point where I got the million dollar Villas at say Bellagio, but to where I could pull down the penthouses at Bellagio and one or two other top Strip casinos simultaneously, to where I'd get a standard room in a casino I wasn't staying at while playing just to use its bathroom because I didn't want to go to the public bathroom.

I took a very long hiatus (well over a decade) from gambling because real life intervened, and I was no longer interested in putting all the energy into gaming, even though I did manage to quit ahead.

I started up again in 2018. Four trips later, mostly spent at Encore Vegas and the Cosmopolitan, I find that Vegas is not comp'ing as readily as they used to. Granted I am not playing at nearly the same level (back then I'd average a few thousand a hand, nowadays more like a few hundred, although my credit lines are as high or higher than they were back then ($50K) and I WILL play up to a few thousand dollars on a hand when I am press/winning), but anyway - some of my observations are:

1. Back then, getting RFB status wasn't as difficult as it is now. Nowadays they will comp the room/suite pretty readily, but want to wait until after they see your play to decide whether to comp the food.

2. At some resorts, like Encore, they want to nickel and dime you for things like "resort" fees, which practically did not even exist back when I used to play big. They don't seem to want to comp these "little things" every trip.

3. Back then they would comp all spa charges off my bills. Nowadays, okay, I get it, I'm not a whale (or even mini-whale), so her $600. treatments and massages are not going to disappear off the bill, but how about comp'ing off these average $40. - $65. "day passes" to the spa, which are softer than soft. Back then no VIP PAID to go to the spa just to take a steam / sauna, it was always comp'ed off. "Spa use" charges are pretty soft.

4. They don't seem to like you to stay (at least not on a room/suite comp) as long as they used to. Back then I would think nothing of staying at the Bellagio penthouse, or the 2nd largest suite at the Venetian, for two weeks at a time. Nowadays, after I've stayed over ten days they start talking about how my line is only $50K and that's all they may win from me (not that they are going to get that from me anyway, I have gone home a winner after every single trip since returning to gambling in 2018), and joking about giving me a "Nevada resident card" if I stay any longer.

5. Trying to get extra rooms for friends/family, nowadays not only are they tighter about it, but they want you to be present in the hotel during their check in. Back then, I'd call my host and he'd hook up whomever I wanted with a free room, and if it was family, he'd put them on RFB status even knowing I wasn't coming into town. Again, I get it, I'm no longer playing as big as I used to, but obviously my play is good enough to get a free suite for three weeks straight in Vegas (which is how long we stayed last trip between Encore and Cosmopolitan), so what's the big deal about throwing in a couple standard room nights for friends/family even if I am not present.

Again, granted we are talking about different levels of play - I played 10x harder back then, than now, but then again, nowadays we are staying in much smaller suites, and I'm not ordering comp'ed $800. shots of cognac for friends - we're living relatively modestly in Vegas in suites under 1000 square feet, and not eating $200 - 300. meals nightly.

Has anyone else, who is an old timer with gambling noticed the clamping up? Maybe I notice it the most because I LEFT for so long, and am now back, so the differences are right in my face.

Another big difference is that back then, they'd only seem to get annoyed when I won BIG (six figures), nowadays they seem to get annoyed at me just for leaving a winner, since it is happening so consistently. No one is SAYING anything, they all clap me on the back and say Job Well Done, but if they're so happy, why do some of the well wishers look like someone just stuck lemon juice in their beer?

MDawg,

I've been to Vegas several dozen times over 30 years now, and though I never rolled as big as you, I'm definitely seeing that same deterioration / cheapening.

IMO, things tightened up greatly in the last 15 years, accelerating more recently. This corresponded with the computer evaluation of your value going from a data point to the almost-complete determiner. They took away nearly all discretion from pit bosses and hosts. I would guess most of those folks would like that discretion back, but it seems to be a one-way change.

It also corresponds with the rise of non-gaming basis for taking people's entertainment dollar. $100+ show tickets, gourmet restaurants and foodies, $500 bottle clubs and $100 cover charges to a dj...the gaming revenue has dropped precipitously by percentage. So they're capturing all those extra charges and nickel -diming the casual and many middle-fish players right out of their businesses.

Seems to me like an opportunity. Hope someone recognizes the value of hospitality and good gaming pretty soon and brings it back.

I'm remembering Bob Stupak in the 70s and into the 80s, and his full-page ads in Parade Magazine and TV Guide, inviting the whole family for $99 dollar packages that included 2 nights, buffets both nights, $100 free play, etc. It was just a wow that he could afford to do that, and I think he brought in hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people who thought theY could never afford Vegas.

That on top of the .99 shrp cocktails, 1.99 steak and egg breakfasts, all the rest that have all but disappeared
Those were the days. ..

Hi Babs - right! that's true. They've gotten so used to making money off non-gaming (parking, resort fees, NIGHTCLUBS, restaurants, etc.) that they are hard pressed to not collect such real world money from players.

And your post reminded me of another thing that happened last trip. I don't smoke but wanted to get a cigar for a family member, from the cigarette girl. The other player at my $100. minimum Baccarat table was a smoker and wanted a pack of cigarettes. They made a big deal out of getting approval on the computer for both of us, and even asked me if I was going to smoke it myself, which at first I answered honestly, NO! it's for _____ at which point the pit boss, who was friendly, told me to "change your answer" (which I did), but anyway, bottom line I had already tipped the cig girl a $5. chip and had to wait nearly ten minutes before I got the cigar.

I could half understand the $50. cigar, but the pack of Marlboros for the other player? Same rigamarole.

Later the dealer told me "not to take it personally" that it was like that all over the Strip now - that the pit bosses could no longer comp any food, and even for little things like this had to get computer approval against my account. I half expected to see a bill for the cigar at checkout (but luckily, no).

Quote: MDawg

Hi Babs - right! that's true. They've gotten so used to making money off non-gaming (parking, resort fees, NIGHTCLUBS, restaurants, etc.) that they are hard pressed to not collect such real world money from players.

And your post reminded me of another thing that happened last trip. I don't smoke but wanted to get a cigar for a family member, from the cigarette girl. The other player at my $100. minimum Baccarat table was a smoker and wanted a pack of cigarettes. They made a big deal out of getting approval on the computer for both of us, and even asked me if I was going to smoke it myself, which at first I answered honestly, NO! it's for _____ at which point the pit boss, who was friendly, told me to "change my answer" (which I did), but anyway, bottom line I had already tipped the cig girl a $5. chip and had to wait nearly ten minutes before I got the cigar.

I could half understand the $50. cigar, but the pack of Marlboros for the other player? Same rigamarole.

Later the dealer told me "not to take it personally" that it was like that all over the Strip now - that the pit bosses could no longer comp any food, and even for little things like this had to get computer approval against my account. I half expected to see a bill for the cigar at checkout (but luckily, no).

The most disgusting thing is they felt the comped cigar had to be personally smoked by you

I.e. you earned a cigar but they feel they are somehow being cheated if the thing you earned is given away to someone else.

Usually only spiteful significant others cry when their partner gives away a present

Yes, and after the cig girl gave it to me, she asked if I wanted her to cut it.

At that point I wasn't sure if she had heard all of the discussion, because if she had, then her request would have been just more of the same "you better be smoking it yourself," but later I thought, well maybe she just said that out of habit, maybe she didn't mean anything one way or another.

I left the cigar in its tube on the table for a while by my chips, then after about ten minutes in a "what the hell, why do I have to play games" move just put it in my coat pocket.

When I started playing again in 2018, after a decade or so hiatus, it was just for the purpose of having fun and comps. I used to play much much harder, and did usually win (over all way ahead), and since returning I actually haven't had a losing trip yet (better knock on something...I am prepared to lose but haven't yet) and get comp'ed a fair amount.

I recall reading something by someone here to the effect of that they will not comp you if you do not lose. Nonsense. My comps are based solely on the theoretical loss since I have not lost only won. We just spent a week at a different resort here and everything was comp'ed. We left that resort to go to the current one where the suite is again all paid for up front, for a full week, most if not all of the food and beverage will be covered, and even though I am not a madman player any longer (my usual average I think is around $300. per hand although they have me down for $800. on this current trip, so maybe I am wrong about my average and it is higher than I think, it is the occasional high bets to couple thousand etc. that bring it up without your realizing it), perks we recently got include free tickets to Bill Burr and Duran Duran, with the DD tickets being front row center. I actually was surprised we got front row center, my play is good but then again maybe it's also to do with that I sent my host three very expensive Italian designer ties after the last trip. That last trip he comp'ed us two full weeks in a suite and I won a fair amount of money too.

Quote: MDawg

When I started playing again in 2018, after a decade or so hiatus, it was just for the purpose of having fun and comps. I used to play much much harder, and did usually win (over all way ahead), and since returning I actually haven't had a losing trip yet (better knock on something...I am prepared to lose but haven't yet) and get comp'ed a fair amount.

I recall reading something by someone here to the effect of that they will not comp you if you do not lose. Nonsense. My comps are based solely on the theoretical loss since I have not lost only won. We just spent a week at a different resort here and everything was comp'ed. We left that resort to go to the current one where the suite is again all paid for up front, for a full week, most if not all of the food and beverage will be covered, and even though I am not a madman player any longer (my usual average I think is around $300. per hand although they have me down for $800. on this current trip, so maybe I am wrong about my average and it is higher than I think), perks we recently got include free tickets to Bill Burr and Duran Duran, with the DD tickets being front row center. I actually was surprised we got front row center, my play is good but then again maybe it's also to do with that I sent my host three very expensive Italian designer ties after the last trip. That last trip he comp'ed us two full weeks in a suite and I won a fair amount of money too.

You don't know what your average bet is within $500 on less than a $1000? Yet you know you're ahead? Give it a rest already. Take a break and enjoy a nice ice cold water.

Uhoh, somebody said something, sure it was something along the lines of jealousy and envy from my enemies.

Quote: MDawg

Uhoh, somebody said something, sure it was something along the lines of jealousy and envy from my enemies.

Yes, it is much easier to continue spreading BS when you don't have to see someone calling you out on it.

#SAFESPACE

This joint should really make you feel good. https://easy.vegas/

Quote: MaxPen

Quote: MDawg

Uhoh, somebody said something, sure it was something along the lines of jealousy and envy from my enemies.

Yes, it is much easier to continue spreading BS when you don't have to see someone calling you out in it.

#SAFESPACE

This joint should really make you feel good. https://easy.vegas/

Don't he worry he just pretends to block you.

Quote: MDawg

Uhoh, somebody said something, sure it was something along the lines of jealousy and envy from my enemies.

This forum probably has more "enemies" and blocking than (well I will spare the reference), it is making this thread spicy though. I don't understand the drama over gambling discussions.

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Quote: MDawg

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Fair enough.

Quote: MDawg

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Maxpen is not someone who stays at home because they dont know how to win. Or cant afford it.

He is pretty successful at what he does I believe

Only reason Maxpen might stay at home is because his car died and he refuses to take a bus

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Maxpen is not someone who stays at home because they dont know how to win. Or cant afford it.

He is pretty successful at what he does I believe

Only reason Maxpen might stay at home is because his car died and he refuses to take a bus

Or he just hops in one of his other cars.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Maxpen is not someone who stays at home because they dont know how to win. Or cant afford it.

He is pretty successful at what he does I believe

Only reason Maxpen might stay at home is because his car died and he refuses to take a bus

Or he just hops in one of his other cars.

He can fit into a Matchbox car?

Quote: darkoz

Maxpen is not someone who stays at home because they dont know how to win. Or cant afford it.

He is pretty successful at what he does I believe

Only reason Maxpen might stay at home is because his car died and he refuses to take a bus

Knowing Maxpen, he might own his own fleet of buses. He still wouldn't ride in one with the peasants,

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

Gandler, what it comes down to is that if I lost money at gambling I wouldn't bother with it. Not that I am trying to make a living out of it, but I'd just pay cash for everything versus gamble if I were unable to maintain a consistent "ahead" status. This, for whatever reason, these blocked guys who sit at home who either don't (because they sit at home) or can't afford to gamble (can't afford because they suck at it and cannot win), cannot seem to fathom. So I blocked them a little while back and I don't think I'm missing anything, I can read their lips without hearing.

Maxpen is not someone who stays at home because they dont know how to win. Or cant afford it.

He is pretty successful at what he does I believe

Only reason Maxpen might stay at home is because his car died and he refuses to take a bus

Considering I have a track record of getting a new vehicle before having to change the oil it is unlikely that one would die, let alone all.😃

#AvoidTheBus

Just got back to the suite still hopped up on green tea. I was back and forth for a number of shoes, was down as much as $16K at one point, which is the most I have been down in any session since resuming play in 2018, but I won three big hands 5000 , 5000 , 5500 and made it back to even. Those were, I'll admit it, the biggest hands I have played this entire year and I am not proud of that I "had" to play like that to catch up, but anyway it worked out. In the old days I'd play five grand a hand routinely, but these days, not so much.

And then recharged and ready to go, I caught this shoe

I cleared over twenty five grand on it

yes that's my lucky Paul Newman red sweep 18K Daytona next to my chips.
I was banging the winning cards so hard on the table during the runs that the clasp on my lucky 18K gold bracelet bent open.

I was barely even betting though, the cocktail crew and others were crowded around me saying that I should have cleared $200K on this shoe, and they are right, but even the one and only guy who played with me at the table, who was a non-streak believer, barely cleared any money on the shoe. Still, clearing over twenty five grand on a shoe is nothing to scoff at. The pit boss kept saying "shoe of a lifetime." Who cut the shoe? ME, that's who.

All I did was just keep pressing into each run, but not even hardly hard enough. No brainer, easy shoe.

Anyone who doesn't recognize that this is an easy winner's shoe is a moron who has never won a nickel at gambling in his life.

CHEERS! This is why I love gambling, finishes like this. I actually free handed two more hands after this (to finish off the shoe) which were unpredictable I mean after the last run ended, how could it get any better? Why is it so hard to explain to peeps that after a shoe like this you just get up and leave?

HELLLLLO!

Gotta stop typing now I already woke her up once.

you are in the plus column, that is what matters, not getting there by what kibitzers think is the optimal method.

Where is this, what's the table max,, and where's the heat if you win $200K?

Risk It All At The Talon Club, The Cosmopolitan's High-Limit Gaming Room | The Manual https://www.themanual.com/culture/the-talon-club-high-limit-betting/

Secrets of Las Vegas's Exclusive High-Roller Cosmopolitan Suite - Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-09-04/secrets-of-las-vegas-s-exclusive-high-roller-cosmopolitan-sweet

Have you ever played Imperial Baccarat at the Palazzo/Venetian? The limits start from $5 to over $1 million. This is the best game to play in Vegas because you can just bet on screen and switch between four different games -- all dealt by a live dealer -- if things go bad on one hand. No dealers or pit bosses to interact with and you can still get points on your Grazie card. Plus, no tip needed! https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/vegas-high-limit-baccarat-room-reviews.130455/page-2

I like to play the Baccarat where I may touch the cards.

And yes on the Cosmopolitan, but no on the top floor suites - those are for million dollar credit line or million dollar deposited front money players I am not at that level, at least, I don't WANT to be at that level. I have read that Bloomberg article before. It's hilarious, but it's not far from the truth. When we were at our front row center seats at Duran Duran at The Chelsea all this confetti started raining all over us when Rio was being played and I grabbed a piece out of the air and later stuck it into my player card wallet for luck. If you read that article closely some Asian gambler starts freaking out because a lucky piece of cellophane candy wrapper or some such gets thrown out by mistake and he sends the Cosmo butlers to search for it in the hotel trash.

All gamblers are superstitious, when I left the elevator on the way to the high limit this girl got out of the adjoining elevator in front of me half naked walking with her ass right in front of me, I mean so scantily clad that when she walked by security they called out to her and just as I was entering the high limit area, I noticed that they caught up to her and pulled her over and told her she couldn't walk through the casino like that. I viewed it as a lucky sign to be placed randomly behind such an awesome exposed ass, it rivals my wife's.

Anyway, our Cosmo suite is nice, but not quite like those! million dollar ones. One thing I like a lot about the Cosmo suites is the view from the balcony, which at the moment is:


I used to stay all the time at the 1980 sq. ft. Renaissance Suites at the Venetian, and yes I am a player there although these days the suites they toss me are not as large. Unwittingly, I may be getting sucked back into playing big and that was not my intention. Today was a great run, but I intend to take a full day off to get grounded again I actually don't want to be playing five thousand dollar hands again that was not my intention when I started gambling again in 2018. It worked out great this time but I'm not here to play like a madman.

I will say that the general Bacc. players with their systems and trying to read the doughnuts, the fries and the whatever on the computer screen, all seem to lose when run time comes around because they find complicated reasons to disbelieve the runs. Perhaps the reason that I win consistently is that I await these runs patiently and press into them. Also I am old school with two sided pen and paper I don't use the computer screen much. This guy who was at my table who kept leaving the run or betting very small along it told me later that it never occurred to him to play runs he always tried to anticipate what would happen next and usually convinced himself that a run was about to end. I told him that in my opinion the only way to win at Baccarat is to wait for a shoe with runs and press into them, hoping that the runs will repeat, one long line after another, which is exactly what happened today. I tend to get at least one shoe like the above per session, meaning - no, this was not a "shoe of a lifetime" as the pit boss said, but it was definitely a great shoe.

MDawg, how's the bacc action at the Paris?

Hi Tiger, actually I have never played at Paris. These days I play at Wynn/Encore, Venetian, T.I., Cosmo and...going to stay and play at Palms later this month. I'll update on the "new" (as in newly remodeled) Palms after staying there. T.I. has only 1 or 2 tables it is very old school no electronic shoe.

I have not played at Aria yet but it looks like great action in there when I have visited their high limit pits.

Quote: MDawg

Unwittingly, I may be getting sucked back into playing big and that was not my intention. Today was a great run, but I intend to take a full day off to get grounded again I actually don't want to be playing five thousand dollar hands again that was not my intention when I started gambling again in 2018. It worked out great this time but I'm not here to play like a madman.

Keep it up MDawg. Enjoy and embrace the variance.
I enjoy reading your progress reports.
The ones I enjoy and look forward to the most are those you haven't written yet: The ones where you lose your shirt. They will be the ones most helpful to your followers.

By the way, since this thread is about comps, one thing I found out is that whether you take forever or blaze through the Baccarat shoe the way I do (I've done an entire shoe as quickly as thirty minutes, opening and reading the cards alone), you get one hour of play credit per shoe.

Quote: OnceDear

Keep it up MDawg. Enjoy and embrace the variance.
I enjoy reading your progress reports.
The ones I enjoy and look forward to the most are those you haven't written yet: The ones where you lose your shirt. They will be the ones most helpful to your followers.

Sounds like he chased some losses and got back close to even for his trip, this time.
I'm a little confused (not really 😃) why he doesn't want to play bigger. Usually a person that is a winner (someone with an edge) will want to play as big as is allowed or tolerated.

Quote: MaxPen

(someone with an edge)

😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃
Yeah. But didn't he call others who don't have his edge morons?

Quote: MaxPen

Sounds like he chased some losses and got back close to even for his trip, this time.
I'm a little confused (not really 😃) why he doesn't want to play bigger. Usually a person that is a winner (someone with an edge) will want to play as big as is allowed or tolerated.

Maybe his bankroll isn't big enough.

Quote: TigerWu

Maybe his bankroll isn't big enough.

Maybe he struggles to stay hydrated.

Quote: OnceDear

😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃
Yeah. But didn't he call others who don't have his edge morons?

I'm pretty sure that's what he calls people that don't believe his BS. Then he runs to his #safespace and locks himself in.😂
I do like that he included some of the the key tools of a losing gamblers toolbox in his pic with the chips. #KEEPINGITREAL. You should always have a high value watch to pawn in one last attempt to get even before heading out of town. If that should fail a simple gold chain or bracelet, broken or not, will get you a few bucks to get home on. One thing is clear. This is not his first rodeo.😂😂😂

Once Dear as far as losing my shirt, I'll be honest I thought last night was going to be the night that I would lose, when I was down $16K, but at the same time my inner voice was saying NAH, they won't get you. And they didn't.

Tiger, my credit lines per casino are $50K. When I was down $16K I pulled another marker and used that. At some point after that I won the three hands 5000 , 5000 , 5500 , and was even. Then I was up and down slightly, nothing big either way, and more or less even when I hit that last shoe, and walked with over 26K to the good. If I had been down, or angry, when that shoe came up I would have won a LOT more than $26K. However, since I was grateful to be even, I wasn't playing so very hard into it, but you'd really have to be clueless to not win a lot on a shoe like that.

Quote: TigerWu

Maybe his bankroll isn't big enough.

You're talking about MDawg here. Saying something like that is blasphemy. 🙄

I would be terrified playing baccarat at $5,000 a hand with only a $50k credit line. I certainly wouldn't bet any bigger like MaxPen wants you to do.

Quote: TigerWu

Maybe his bankroll isn't big enough.

I think most men exaggerate the size of their bankroll by a few inches