Bitcoin to hit $500,000 mark by 2030?
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56 members have voted
So, they have cost: The cost of electricity used in their generation. That does not mean they have value. They don't store the creation energy and deliver that to the new owner. Energy expended on bitcoin mining is an obscene waste of the worlds resources.Quote: gamerfreakIt takes a significant amount of time and energy to mine a bitcoin, which is a major part of what allows them to hold a value in the market.
They can’t be produced out of thin air.
Quote: Douglas Adams“Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich. [...]
"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut." [...]
"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and...er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances.”
Quote: OnceDearSo, they have cost: The cost of electricity used in their generation. That does not mean they have value. They don't store the creation energy and deliver that to the new owner. Energy expended on bitcoin mining is an obscene waste of the worlds resources.
Quote: Douglas Adams“Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich. [...]
"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut." [...]
"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and...er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances.”
Anybody who quotes Douglas Adams has my heart.
I can only imagine what he would have had to say about the last 10 years, especially the last 2. Zaphod gone terribly rogue.
(Insert candle of remembrance here)
Quote: OnceDearSo, they have cost: The cost of electricity used in their generation. That does not mean they have value. They don't store the creation energy and deliver that to the new owner. Energy expended on bitcoin mining is an obscene waste of the worlds resources.
The same can be said for any fiat currency. The market is what determines the value, but scarcity is a requirement, and is built into bitcoin.
Scarcity is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Fiat currency also has the backing of a government that it is accepted legal tender within the jurisdiction of the government.Quote: gamerfreakThe same can be said for any fiat currency. The market is what determines the value, but scarcity is a requirement, and is built into bitcoin.
If some country adopted Bitcoin as legal tender it would take off. Heck, speculation about Amazon starting to accept Bitcoin drove several of the trading peaks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-97-are-held-by-4-of-addresses-2018-1
As it kind of says in the link; "97% of all bitcoins are held by 4% of addresses"
If that's even close to true then it's open for massive amounts of manipulation. Add in that the people that REALLY know crypto also have a great advantage, and the fact that no matter how secure it is you can still lose everything with no fault on your own, and that if you forget/lose your credentials you can also lose everything means I'm staying away from it.
Bitcoin ETF? I might do that.
Blockchain? I'm already invested in that because I think there is a huge potential for it. The question is if that potential will be able to lead to $$$$$.
Quote: gamerfreakIt takes a significant amount of time and energy to mine a bitcoin, which is a major part of what allows them to hold a value in the market.
They can’t be produced out of thin air.
Yes, it does.
It also takes a significant amount of time and energy to produce s##t. I kid you not. The difference here is that s##t actually has it's use and implementation in the physical world. Bitcoin/other crypto? Mmmm not so sure.
Quote: gamerfreakThe same can be said for any fiat currency. The market is what determines the value, but scarcity is a requirement, and is built into bitcoin.
No, there is a world of difference. That's what this all is about. Btc is actually build upon non-inflating "value", while fiat is build upon inflating value. Which makes btc even more ridiculous of a concept. It can't be used as a currency due to it's own structure - no one is incentivised to spend it - everyone is incentivised to hold it.
But that's just one of it's problems.
The main problem is it worths s##t. It solves nothing, it helps with nothing, yet it's ultimate claim is all the worlds physical value/money belongs to it. It claims that one day every single idea/effort/labor/asset will be measured in btc and every single thing that worths something belongs to the digital currency. That is beyond retarded. It will never be a rational idea. Ever.
Quote: rawtuffNo, there is a world of difference. That's what this all is about. Btc is actually build upon non-inflating "value", while fiat is build upon inflating value. Which makes btc even more ridiculous of a concept. It can't be used as a currency due to it's own structure - no one is incentivised to spend it - everyone is incentivised to hold it.
But that's just one of it's problems.
The main problem is it worths s##t. It solves nothing, it helps with nothing, yet it's ultimate claim is all the worlds physical value/money belongs to it. It claims that one day every single idea/effort/labor/asset will be measured in btc and every single thing that worths something belongs to the digital currency. That is beyond retarded. It will never be a rational idea. Ever.
You forgot no army to enforce its claimed authority.
Quote: MaxPenYou forgot no army to enforce its claimed authority.
It’s enforced by mathematics, which I trust more than any government.
Quote: rawtuffNo, there is a world of difference. That's what this all is about. Btc is actually build upon non-inflating "value", while fiat is build upon inflating value.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. For every block of bitcoins that are solved, the the next blocks are increasingly difficult. And there is a finite number of coins that can be mined.
Quote: rawtuffThe main problem is it worths s##t. It solves nothing, it helps with nothing
As long as people are paying for it, it’s worth something. You and everyone else who doesn’t understand bitcoin has been predicting its death for years now, and yet 1 BTC is still worth $6k+
Quote: rawtuffyet it's ultimate claim is all the worlds physical value/money belongs to it. It claims that one day every single idea/effort/labor/asset will be measured in btc and every single thing that worths something belongs to the digital currency. That is beyond retarded. It will never be a rational idea. Ever.
Who is claiming any of that?
Although there is one person who I would say is an exception to the two groups....and by the end of the year, he's going to owe me $100, because BTC is going to hit $12k before it hits $5k. :)
Quote: RSor they think its just silly "internet money" that has no value and its identical to beany babies
you shut your whore mouth. beanie babbys is GOAT
Quote: RSSeems like EVERYONE whom I've talked to about cryptocurrency are in two different groups. Either they understand how it works, at least in general terms (if not more specifically) and are "in favor" of it and see its usefulness for the future....or they think its just silly "internet money" that has no value and its identical to beany babies or some other fad, and when asked how much they know about it, they either admit they don't really know anything about it, or they lie and say they know all about it (but then its obvious they don't understand what the blockchain is, and they think BTC can just be "created" out of thin air somehow).
Once you get how it really works it is impossible not to see a real use for it. I have moved $1,000, securely, for less than $1!
I have found that you have to change the word "blockchain" to "ledger" for people to get it. Once we I was explaining it as a ledger and someone sitting beside pipes up "it's called a blockchain." I replied, "I know, but when I explain it I say 'ledger' because nobody naturally knows what a 'blockchain' is." Guy thought a second and agreed with me.
The harder part will be understanding why the coins are different. We will end up with 3-4 working coins in the end. Expect bitcoin/litecoin/etherium to be like MC/Visa/Discover. Similar, but subtle differences.
1. put money in your bank account
2. wire money to exchange 1
3. buy BTC or ETH on exchange 1
4. transfer BTC or ETH from exchange 1 to exchange 2
5. buy alt coins from exchange 2
optional but recommended steps
6. move alt coins from exchange 2 to hardware wallet
if hardware wallet doesn't support your alt coin, move to desktop wallet
BIG thing: remembering all your private keys by storing them somewhere offline
My coins are all over many wallets and I am having a hard time keeping track of them all
Quote: djatc
My coins are all over many wallets and I am having a hard time keeping track of them all
You should probably just give your wallets and keys to a trusted friend like myself to manage them for you. If you can't get a hold of me afterwards, don't worry. They are safe with me in a non-extradition country in the Caribbean.
Quote: DRichYou should probably just give your wallets and keys to a trusted friend like myself to manage them for you. If you can't get a hold of me afterwards, don't worry. They are safe with me in a non-extradition country in the Caribbean.
Have fun when you realize he gave you all of his crypto that adds up to like $73.
Quote: DRichYou should probably just give your wallets and keys to a trusted friend like myself to manage them for you. If you can't get a hold of me afterwards, don't worry. They are safe with me in a non-extradition country in the Caribbean.
i almost cried, thanks for being a good friend
Quote: RSHave fun when you realize he gave you all of his crypto that adds up to like $73.
Quote: MaxPenI think we should have a moment of silence as this thing just broke 5K.🤓
I told you BTC would hit $5k before year’s end.
Quote: RS
I told you BTC would hit $5k before year’s end.
You sure that wasn't ZenKing? Oh yeah, last I heard he was saying to get back in.
https://coingape.com/coinbase-backed-startup-coinmine-launches-crypto-mining-device/
Quote: RS
Although there is one person who I would say is an exception to the two groups....and by the end of the year, he's going to owe me $100, because BTC is going to hit $12k before it hits $5k. :)
Damn.
Quote: gamerfreakDamn.
It’s okay. The $100 won’t kill me. I just gotta spend a few minutes talking to a loansharking agency and it’ll be good.
Quote: RSIt’s okay. The $100 won’t kill me. I just gotta spend a few minutes talking to a loansharking agency and it’ll be good.
I would pay it with 0.02 Bitcoin.
Quote: billryanAnyone looked into these new mining devices? They supposedly keep all your 'coins" in one place.
https://coingape.com/coinbase-backed-startup-coinmine-launches-crypto-mining-device/
i actually bought my first, and last bitcoin with them, at what i thought was a specific price. The next page said i had paid way more for the amount that i had bought, so i got less than what i wanted. That was at peak price coincidentally, and the worst "luck" ive ever had. It was all downhill from there. I couldnt even sell them back for at least a year until the damn price to remove them from something, i dont give a crap. It said it was going to cost almost the entire amount of bitcoin i had to get my money back, so i would have been paying to get about 1 dollar of my 50 dollars i had initially "invested" just to "get my money back".
Long story short, if you like to gamble, by all means throw your money into bitcoin.
Quote: RSI told you BTC would hit $5k before year’s end.
Is it a good time to buy?
Quote: BlackjackLoverIs it a good time to buy?
No
Quote: vegasNo
Could you please elaborate?
Quote: BlackjackLoverCould you please elaborate?
Traders are losing confidence in bitcoin. The stock market is going down and quickly. There will be only one currency when the dust settles and it won’t be bitcoin. It is a bit like a pyramid scam. Get in early, sell make your fortune. Get in late and watch the value disappear.
Now is the time to head to gold stocks.
My opinion
Quote: djatcif i flip my portfolio's graph upside down it looks amazing right now
Nail it to the wall, and spin it through out the day.
I know two people who bought BitCoin around $100.
One had all his coins stolen.
The other had a good chunk stolen, but made a kick-a** profit.
Quote: mamatSafety is important.
I know two people who bought BitCoin around $100.
One had all his coins stolen.
The other had a good chunk stolen, but made a kick-a** profit.
Yes. Just like cash, if you are not careful with your coins they can get lost or stolen.
It’s not difficult to take basic precautions.
Quote: djatcif i flip my portfolio's graph upside down it looks amazing right now
Turning a graph upside down has also the same effect as technical analysis does and is why TA is -EV because its actually based on that similar ridiculous concept. Warren buffett has also made a similar statement about technical analysis. With that being said, I have used RSI(Relative Strengh index) with bitcoin before because as much as I hated technical analysis, it was just too hard to ignore and so I monitored it and it has been predictable up until now at least. It's also a lagging indicator which could be misleading looking back.
Bitcoin and the RSI index have been so predictable over the years with how people are trading bitcoin and as Ive said in the past, it's a trader's paradise. Wouldnt be surprised if it makes a huge run to 10k soon based on that, but as I learned with sports betting ALL past events are completely indepedent just like a roulette wheel and that includes technial analysis and even my aformentioned RSI, so Its really all BS. Just because theres a massive trend by looking back doesnt imply future success. No one knows what could happen in the future. The only way is through fundamental analysis; ie., competitive advantages, strong growth in earnings, strong management team, etc. Invest in those.
A question on bitcoins. I don't like them and don't want any but several people have tried to buy stuff using them.
Suppose someone in China offers me , let's say $10,000 for a painting. He wants to pay by bitcoin.
How would I get it, how do I convert it to cash , how safe is it, is there any possible blowback, chargeback, problems to be aware of, etc. What fees would I incur? I'd want to convert to cash asap.
As investments, I'm not interested, but more people are asking about using them.
.
Quote: billryanI can't tell you which way the next 1,000 point swing will be, or even the next 10,000 points, but I can tell you with certainty which way the next 100 percent swing will be.
Which way will the next 100 percent swing be?
Quote:“I started off with everyone calling me ‘Better Call Saul’ and ‘the ambulance chaser of crypto.’ I wore that like a badge of honor,” says Silver, who has built a roaring practice representing those who lost money in the crypto craze.
Silver’s moment of vindication coincides with the Securities and Exchange Commission decision to unleash a wave of enforcement actions targeting the cryptocurrency sector. This includes SEC claims against outright scam artists, but also against the operators of so-called “Initial Coin Offerings” (ICOs), which sold digital tokens to the public without registering them as securities.
In an interview with Fortune, Silver predicted that the SEC is just getting warmed up and that the agency will target more ICOs as well as cryptocurrency exchanges where people bought and sold tokens — tokens that in retrospect appear to be unregistered securities.
Silver claims that it was evident all along that many cryptocurrency businesses were operating outside the law, but that the hype over crypto drowned out those who called them out.
“At the end of day, I consider myself an investment fraud lawyer. I don’t care how people lose money — crypto happens to be the crime du jour. It’s not that complicated; I just say stop stealing money,” he said.
His law firm, Silver Miller, has so far won two judgments worth more than $10 million, and is still pursuing claims against notorious scam shops like BitConnect, as well as against more mainstream outfits like Coinbase and Kraken. He argues that such firms are now eager to cooperate with regulators, but that in the earlier days of crypto, their executives turned a blind eye to bad actors. Coinbase and Kraken declined to comment.
Silver, who started out with the white-shoe law firm Patton Boggs, has also earned the respect of others in the legal niche of cryptocurrency.
“Speaking as someone who used to run a blockchain tech company and is currently a practicing lawyer, David is highly literate in the crypto space, a lot of fun to hang out with, and generally I have a lot of time for him,” says Preston Byrne, an attorney whose crypto comments have earned him a large following on Twitter.
While Silver has racked up numerous victories in court against cryptocurrency companies, this doesn’t always translate into money for the plaintiffs since many defendants are overseas.
“Each case is different. I have a pile of default judgments. The liability is a slam dunk. Collectability is a bit of a different story,” he acknowledges.
Meanwhile, Silver recently decided to take on the big phone companies on behalf of clients who lost cryptocurrency in “phone porting” scams. These are cases where scammers rely on deception or a corrupt agent inside the phone company in order to transfer the victim’s number to a new SIM card — this can allow the scammer to defeat two-factor authentication and steal the victim’s cryptocurrency.
While such cases would normally be the form of a class-action lawsuit, the phone companies and others can invoke forced arbitration clauses, forcing plaintiffs to sue one by one. Silver says he’s not dissuaded.
“I’m happy to go to arbitration if the person has lost enough money to make it worthwhile. The average case I take on the person has lost half a million to $1 million.”
Related video: Is the best of bitcoin yet to come?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/stop-stealing-money-crypto-lawyer-goes-from-villain-to-vindicated/ar-BBPXgXo?ocid=spartanntp
Quote: billryan
Suppose someone in China offers me , let's say $10,000 for a painting. He wants to pay by bitcoin.
How would I get it, how do I convert it to cash , how safe is it, is there any possible blowback, chargeback, problems to be aware of, etc. What fees would I incur? I'd want to convert to cash asap.
As investments, I'm not interested, but more people are asking about using them.
.
1. Set up a wallet. Jaxx is good and simple. You are the China buyer your public key. Think of your public key as similar to an email address, no danger of anyone knowing it. Then tell the person in China to send X amt of bitcoin. Any decent wallet or exchange converts it to dollars before your eyes.
2. Chinese buyer sends the bitcoin to that key. You would have to tell him that he needs to sent X + the fee, though lately fees are very low, that $10,000 transaction will cost probably less than $2 to send.
3. Ship the painting. He might want you to do some kind of escrow as once sent the transaction CANNOT be reversed, like a wire of CC.
4. Get an account at an exchange like coinbase.
5. Send your bitcoin from the wallet to the exchange. A small fee of the same currently <$2 will be incurred. Moving bitcoin is not free because after all, we are not communists.
6. Sell the bitcoin on the exchange. Fees vary.
That's it. As simple as anything else once you get your arms around what is actually happening. Way cheaper than any other way like a wire of CC merchant.
Looking like crypto's are dying. From their ashes something centralized and highly controlled might emerge.
Will look again at $2600.
Quote: MaxPenDown she goes... Will BTC ever be seen or heard from again?
Looking like crypto's are dying. From their ashes something centralized and highly controlled might emerge.
Will look again at $2600.
Sounds like the words from someone who doesn’t want to get paid $100. 😂
I'm still buying BTC. Very irrational markets however. How is it there is all this news about institutions and big players getting into cryptos but the price doesn't reflect that? I think we are still too early to the party.
I was watching a show about the 90s (damn that was over 20 years ago) and they were talking about the internet. Yahoo, Google, and some others were interviewed and they were still a very small operation relative to what they are today. I think the founders themselves looked like they were computer nerds working out of their garage or something.
Early 90's, pre AOL - just a bunch of enthusiasts getting on BBS's to talk about random things
Mid 90's, post AOL - not quite mainstream but non-tech people connecting online
Late 90's - everyone has some form of exposure to the world wide web.
I remember when I was a youngin my parents bought me a computer (233mhz Pentium 2 i think, 64(!)mb ram) and I used that to play Starcraft on battle.net. Don't think anyone outside of my circle of friends who we were all video game nerds had computers, except for maybe a parent that needed it for spreadsheets or hwatnot. Also remember that if I wanted to find out about video game stuff pre-internet I had to go to the bookstore and read a strategy guide at Borders. Fast forward to today where everyone is connected in some shape or form on the interwebs.
If I were to look at cryptocurrency as a sports bet I would see it as getting +EV on a huge dog. It's still a bit raw in terms of ease of use, and accessibility, but there's a killer app that'll be used sometime in the future which will change the way we do business. Who would have guessed that in the last election Donald Trump would win over all those qualified politicians? That's the type of improbability I see in crypto as a bet.
How is AOL doing nowadays?Quote: djatcI bet people who went super HAM with leveraging and taking out 2nd mortgages are not having a good time.
I'm still buying BTC. Very irrational markets however. How is it there is all this news about institutions and big players getting into cryptos but the price doesn't reflect that? I think we are still too early to the party.
I was watching a show about the 90s (damn that was over 20 years ago) and they were talking about the internet. Yahoo, Google, and some others were interviewed and they were still a very small operation relative to what they are today. I think the founders themselves looked like they were computer nerds working out of their garage or something.
Early 90's, pre AOL - just a bunch of enthusiasts getting on BBS's to talk about random things
Mid 90's, post AOL - not quite mainstream but non-tech people connecting online
Late 90's - everyone has some form of exposure to the world wide web.
I remember when I was a youngin my parents bought me a computer (233mhz Pentium 2 i think, 64(!)mb ram) and I used that to play Starcraft on battle.net. Don't think anyone outside of my circle of friends who we were all video game nerds had computers, except for maybe a parent that needed it for spreadsheets or hwatnot. Also remember that if I wanted to find out about video game stuff pre-internet I had to go to the bookstore and read a strategy guide at Borders. Fast forward to today where everyone is connected in some shape or form on the interwebs.
If I were to look at cryptocurrency as a sports bet I would see it as getting +EV on a huge dog. It's still a bit raw in terms of ease of use, and accessibility, but there's a killer app that'll be used sometime in the future which will change the way we do business. Who would have guessed that in the last election Donald Trump would win over all those qualified politicians? That's the type of improbability I see in crypto as a bet.
Quote: AxelWolfHow is AOL doing nowadays?
I'm sitting on a storage container with over 5000 free AOL trials, they might be valuable someday
I'm sure the medium will change but the overall sentiment of cryptos will be yuge
lol. I was on 't'internet in the early 90s. I was the only person I knew with email. Very sad.Quote: djatc
I was watching a show about the 90s (damn that was over 20 years ago) and they were talking about the internet. Yahoo, Google, and some others were interviewed and they were still a very small operation relative to what they are today. I think the founders themselves looked like they were computer nerds working out of their garage or something.
Early 90's, pre AOL - just a bunch of enthusiasts getting on BBS's to talk about random things
Search was gopher or Veronica or the new fangled yahoo. It took about a minute to download a dodgy image... From Usenet if you could find it. Or from a BBS using zmodem protocol.
I remember being torn from my bed by a furious wife who'd got to the HUGE phone bill before me.
Anyhow... Bitcoin and crypto. I reckon the crypto we have today will be laughed at like AOL dial up is today. But then so will fiat currency be obsolete and forgotten and mocked by the young.
Early adopters pay the price unless they are lucky or agile.
$3330. Hard to find any who are predicting
a rosy future, most are saying it will bottom
out under $2000 and there will be a selling
frenzy with everybody getting out. Then the
buying will slowly begin again. There are
only two BC mining companies still making
money, soon it will be one, then zero.
Myself, I think it's over. Just another collectible
biting the dust.. Just like Beanie Babies and
anything made by Franklin Mint.
