bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
  • Threads: 128
  • Posts: 2558
August 23rd, 2016 at 9:15:55 PM permalink
I am not in the anti-police category. But realistically, "probable cause" is really just a theory to be discussed in a college law course or administration of justice, etc. In the real world, away from the classroom, and out of the view of television cameras, there's no such thing as probable cause. They will MAKE their own probably cause. Sorry to sound so cynical, but I've got the life lessons to prove it. Miranda v Arizona, Mapp v. Ohio, it's all just make believe. They do what they want.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 540
August 23rd, 2016 at 9:58:26 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

If I were an HONEST cop, I would accept a reasonable reason for a driver having $6,000 in C-notes - but I would have my suspicions and book it as evidence if NOT receiving a plausible (cop-wise) scenario - AND to be returned upon reasonable proof to the court.
And I tell you, Mr. Driver would receive a lecture on using and supporting Credit Unions "for the people" to protect them - as fellow Americans, or even illegals.

You and I have a fundimentl difference of opinion of what it means to be a citizen of the United States of America. I am not a constitutional scholar or a lawyer but I believe this to my core. The state cannot deprive me of my property without due process. Due process is the burden of the state, not the citizen. Unreasonable search and seizure and denial of due process are exactly why the 4th and 5th amendments exist. It's not a technicality.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
August 23rd, 2016 at 10:00:19 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I am not in the anti-police category. But realistically, "probable cause" is really just a theory to be discussed in a college law course or administration of justice, etc. In the real world, away from the classroom, and out of the view of television cameras, there's no such thing as probable cause. They will MAKE their own probably cause. Sorry to sound so cynical, but I've got the life lessons to prove it. Miranda v Arizona, Mapp v. Ohio, it's all just make believe. They do what they want.


Yeah, they will.
Manufactured, assumed or reasonable, they got that trump card, based on their own experience of a situation.

So, any money discovered over $2,000 or $3,000 or so in any car that isn't 100% Hush-puppy crumb cake, panty waste, milquetoast professional class lawyer, accountant or doctor-looking, is assumed to be meth money related. $1,000 in a beater car. Most times any big money's impounded - just on their say-so.

Cops have their own basic strategy in assessing a situation for probable cause.

1. If you're clean and no money was present, - you're free to go with a ticket, with no other losses. If you have a $40 on you, they won't take that. Obviously it's gas and McDonald's money.

2. If you're clean WITH money present, - you're free to go with a ticket, and assets possibly/probably seized. If you had $2,000 on you - they'll take that, saying you're not clean, - "possible drug trafficking proceeds." And a LOT of American counties you may have passed through may have their own meth/OxyContin/dope issues. They may see you as a problem, even if colored by their local drug problem/forfeiture revenue reasons.

So, why carry large sums of money through the necks of the woods where they operate on this basis?
Answer: no good reason, unless you're just fine saying goodbye to that money.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 943
August 23rd, 2016 at 10:18:28 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford

You and I have a fundimentl difference of opinion of what it means to be a citizen of the United States of America. I am not a constitutional scholar or a lawyer but I believe this to my core. The state cannot deprive me of my property without due process. Due process is the burden of the state, not the citizen. Unreasonable search and seizure and denial of due process are exactly why the 4th and 5th amendments exist. It's not a technicality.



So far, I haven't seen any proof that the phenomenon that everybody is getting so exercised about--cops seizing the money of innocent law -abiding citizens and their never never ever ever getting it back--actually exists. What I've seen are a few internet anecdotes, blog posts, and video podcasts. While corrupt cops may indeed be roaming the land , looking for cash like brains-starved zombies, I doubt it. It seems much more likely to be an internet meme. And a great way for hubby to explain why he's coming home from the casino flat broke: "gee, honey, I won five grand tonight, but the cops took it all!" In other words, I don't take internet tales at face value.

That aside, anyone who travels in a car, plane, train, boat, or on a skateboard with large sums of cash is an idiot and is asking for trouble. Having the cops take your cash--however likely that is--is only one of dozens of things that could go wrong.

And as far as that tired American Freedom argument goes, well, I have the right to set fire to myself, and any law prohibiting me from doing that is a grievous infringement of my somethingth amendment rights. But you still would be right to ask me, "Legal or illegal, why in earth would you want to do it?"
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19436
August 23rd, 2016 at 10:24:36 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Yeah, they will.
Manufactured, assumed or reasonable, they got that trump card, based on their own experience of a situation.

So, any money discovered over $2,000 or $3,000 or so in any car that isn't 100% Hush-puppy crumb cake, panty waste, milquetoast professional class lawyer, accountant or doctor-looking, is assumed to be meth money related. $1,000 in a beater car. Most times any big money's impounded - just on their say-so.

Cops have their own basic strategy in assessing a situation for probable cause.

1. If you're clean and no money was present, - you're free to go with a ticket, with no other losses. If you have a $40 on you, they won't take that. Obviously it's gas and McDonald's money.

2. If you're clean WITH money present, - you're free to go with a ticket, and assets possibly/probably seized. If you had $2,000 on you - they'll take that, saying you're not clean, - "possible drug trafficking proceeds." And a LOT of American counties you may have passed through may have their own meth/OxyContin/dope issues. They may see you as a problem, even if colored by their local drug problem/forfeiture revenue reasons.

So, why carry large sums of money through the necks of the woods where they operate on this basis?
Answer: no good reason, unless you're just fine saying goodbye to that money.

And the inocent people who are in their homes? How about when they take your home, gold, silver, cars etc etc? It's one thing having to protect yourself from some scumbag bag thief. Now you have to worry about all law enforcement as well.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
August 23rd, 2016 at 10:27:52 PM permalink
It's a lot damn easier carrying money into a casino, than going up to the cage and taking out a marker, or any other form of getting the money. It's gonna be easier if you're not an AP and just want to gamble, but there are reasons why an AP may not want to have to cash a check at the cage, setup front money or a CL, use traveler's checks, etc. (for reasons I'd rather not get into). The best alternative I see is putting money into a bank account then withdrawing it at your destination.....but even then, it can be difficult to make a deposit for $50k-$100k then withdraw that money a day or two later.....only to deposit it a few days after (when you leave and head home), only to make another withdrawal for all that amount (when you get home). Yeah, that's not gonna fly, especially if you're doing it frequently (or even a few times a year).
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2233
August 23rd, 2016 at 11:11:17 PM permalink
deleted - because, screw it
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 2746
August 23rd, 2016 at 11:23:21 PM permalink
There is a simple solution to all this: Wells Fargo. Works at my current address. Works in Vegas. Works in Biloxi.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
August 23rd, 2016 at 11:57:17 PM permalink
Something else I forgot to mention -- what if you wanna go on a road trip, hitting all the casinos from Louisiana/Mississippi area up to Iowa, hitting many of the casinos on that route?

Yes, banks CAN be part of the solution, but the ultimate solution is simply bringing cash with you....the problem is police doing civil asset forfeiture.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
August 24th, 2016 at 5:14:23 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

And the inocent people who are in their homes? How about when they take your home, gold, silver, cars etc etc? It's one thing having to protect yourself from some scumbag bag thief. Now you have to worry about all law enforcement as well.


Almost never, except for far out on the highway, and when holding a ton of cash in a car....

Police who answer a burglary or nuisance call at a business location, or at home in a city location are extremely safe, and this is obviously a lot different than a lone trouper pulling over a lone driver with an unexplainable bundle of cash on an empty highway, especially in a car smelling of pot.

The thing is, driving down a highway very far from any nearby city, with an absolute fortune in cash found in your car, is absolutely and extremely unexplainable. It'll simply be seized. He may very well think the large amount of cash you carry is from drug trafficking, and he will seize it for the state on an empty country road.
The cash might - probably will - never be seen again.

This is different than a city burglary cop, looking at a broken lock or window at your house in the city.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

  • Jump to: