RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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August 24th, 2016 at 11:11:37 PM permalink
The civil asset forfeiture (or whatever you wanna call it) has absolutely ZERO to do with reporting amounts. The $10k+ for a CTR and reporting $10k+ when traveling internationally is COMPLETELY separate from civil forfeiture. It's a totally separate branch, if you will.

The civil forfeiture is just cops / TSA / law enforcement taking someone's money. I don't know the laws regarding this kinda stuff, not sure if they're state or federal laws either. But as far as I know, it really seem like it's exactly what it looks like -- they take your money and you're f***ed.....just because they can "suspect" the money was used for illegal purposes.

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

Yep, ya gotta look out for "they." They are everywhere. They stalk the land for victims. They will tackle you, drag you into the bushes, and hack out your internal organs on the spot! They know that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting them from doing anything they want!!!!!!!!! It's an EPIDEMIC!! YAAAAAAAH!!!! Donald Trump, save us!!!

I know this is 100% absolutely true fact because I read it on the internet!




Seriously, just stop. Have you ever been pulled over for a bullsh** reason, knowing it's all bullsh**? You talk to the cop for a few minutes, thinking just give me my damn ticket and let me go. But oh wait -- he claims some bullsh** about you sounding nervous, is there anything in your car you should be nervous about? No, okay......but can the cop search your car? You say no. He says OK, I'll be calling for a K-9 unit and they'll be out here shortly. It's already been an hour now, you're either standing outside or in the cop's front seat. You think there's maybe a sliver of a chance the dog won't "hit" on your car, falsely.....even though there is nothing in your car. You already know what's going to happen, it's like watching a horror movie, "No, don't go that way! That's where the murderer is!" But the person in the movie goes anyway.

Finally they bring the dog around the car a few times, and low and behold, he gives out a few barks. Cop says "You can either open it for us, or we'll open it ourselves." You unlock the car and watch several cops rummage through your stuff, grabbing it and chucking it on the asphalt. It's a game to them, and you're their pawn.

Meanwhile, the original cop is standing next to you, still questioning you, is there anything in your car you don't want us to find? You know this'll all go over much easier if you let us know.....we'll be out of here in no time....we're pretty lenient around here, ya know, especially for someone who's never had any problems before, you seem like a good guy, but I can't help you if you don't help yourself.

An hour and a half later, bags torn apart, practically shredded, clothes and other items scattered across the asphalt now dirty and messed up, everything that remains in the car completely scrambled, everything taken out of the glove box and center console.


All for what? You guessed it -- they found nothing, as there was nothing to begin with. You don't think it'll happen to you, but in the blink of an eye, all of a sudden you're getting pulled over for speeding, going 65 in a 70.

I'll say it again -- seriously, stop posting here, joesh. You have no idea what you're talking about.
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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August 25th, 2016 at 12:04:24 AM permalink
Quote: RS

<snip>I'll say it again -- seriously, stop posting here, joesh. You have no idea what you're talking about.<snip>



This is a subject that has been discussed a few times here; perhaps he would be well served to check out the ACLU's information on this; I think they are a group that he would approves of, based on his desire to rid the world of Republicans/Conservatives:

"Police abuse of civil asset forfeiture laws has shaken our nation’s conscience. Civil forfeiture allows police to seize — and then keep or sell — any property they allege is involved in a crime. Owners need not ever be arrested or convicted of a crime for their cash, cars, or even real estate to be taken away permanently by the government."

https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse

"On Friday, the ACLU settled a class action lawsuit, pending court approval, against officials in the East Texas town of Tenaha and Shelby County over the rampant practice of stopping and searching drivers, almost always Black or Latino, and often seizing their cash and other valuable property."

https://www.aclu.org/blog/settlement-means-no-more-highway-robbery-tenaha-texas

Even as someone on the other side of the political spectrum, I find these laws to be repugnant. I haven't researched who put them in place (D or R types); I just know that either side can create bad law while trying to make something good. Too broad of wording, unintended consequences, etc. all happen even to some good ideas.

"They" aren't hiding around every corner, of course, but why mock people discussing something that really does happen who are on a board where people discuss issues involving gambling and where some really do carry large sums of money for legitimate reasons?
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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August 25th, 2016 at 4:11:46 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

Yep, ya gotta look out for "they." They are everywhere. They stalk the land for victims. They will tackle you, drag you into the bushes, and hack out your internal organs on the spot! They know that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting them from doing anything they want!!!!!!!!! It's an EPIDEMIC!! YAAAAAAAH!!!! Donald Trump, save us!!!

I know this is 100% absolutely true fact because I read it on the internet!


Maybe in your world you only read about things on the Internet. Some of us here have been through asset forfeiture or know people that have.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Romes
Romes
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August 25th, 2016 at 6:45:05 AM permalink
Guys... I... I.... I'm just sorry for calling Dan to the thread.

I really am sorry... lol
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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August 25th, 2016 at 10:45:29 AM permalink
If someone is a professional gambler and needs to deal in cash for business purposes, wouldn't asset forfeiture -- after the police are informed of your profession -- be tortious interference with business expectancy? If you inform the police that you're a pro gambler who needs to carry cash to run your business, and your cash is forfeited, I think you may have a cause of action to recover not just the forfeited cash but the value of the future business expectancy that was precluded or spoiled by the forfeiture. In other words, if you're on the way to a short-term play worth $5,000 in EV and you have $10,000 in your car, if the cops stop you and take the money, not only do you not have the 10k anymore but you've lost out on the 5k of expected income.

Someone more versed in the law can perhaps provide further comment? Has this theory ever been litigated?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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August 25th, 2016 at 11:23:44 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Guys... I... I.... I'm just sorry for calling Dan to the thread.

I really am sorry... lol


Incredible. Other people bicker and it's my fault. More BS.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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August 25th, 2016 at 11:34:59 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Incredible. Other people bicker and it's my fault. More BS.

Hi Dan,
Welcome to the thread.
I wonder where it will head.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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August 25th, 2016 at 12:00:09 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Hi Dan,
Welcome to the thread.
I wonder where it will head.


You guys decide.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
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August 25th, 2016 at 10:46:22 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

If someone is a professional gambler and needs to deal in cash for business purposes, wouldn't asset forfeiture -- after the police are informed of your profession -- be tortious interference with business expectancy? If you inform the police that you're a pro gambler who needs to carry cash to run your business, and your cash is forfeited, I think you may have a cause of action to recover not just the forfeited cash but the value of the future business expectancy that was precluded or spoiled by the forfeiture. In other words, if you're on the way to a short-term play worth $5,000 in EV and you have $10,000 in your car, if the cops stop you and take the money, not only do you not have the 10k anymore but you've lost out on the 5k of expected income.

Yes, something like this has been litigated. Back in the early days of AC, a BJ player was backed off, and successfully sued for the right to play. He then tried to recover damages, on the premise that he could have been playing all that time and would have been X ahead based on his EV. Rather than laughing at him, the court in NJ listened to his case. Unfortunately, he lost, with the court citing cases where a lost business opportunity was not collectible damages, because no one could figure out what such an opportunity was worth (how likely to succeed, worth how much if it did). The court did remark that parties should agree on liquidated damages in such cases. The plaintiff probably way overstated what playing at that casino would have been worth to him. The judge also remarked that there were other places to play where similar opportunities existed.

Someone more versed in the law can perhaps provide further comment? Has this theory ever been litigated?

Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
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August 26th, 2016 at 7:52:03 AM permalink
TSA searches at the airport? Here is what the comics have to say about that today.

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