Incorrect Craps Betting

The following was posted in another thread:

Quote: AZDuffman

My first report is what was there on craps, or what was not there. THE BIG 6/8 IS *NOT* ON THE LAYOUT! This was a suprise as in training they were assuming it would be allowed. I can only assume PA banned this bet which I consider the stupidest in the casino (since it is the only bet I know of that pays less than the same bet on a different part of the layout for the same outcome.)

My first thought on this was that there are other bets that have different payouts. They just aren't on different parts of the layout. If I bet $5 on the Place 6, I will get paid the same amount as the Big 6, but I won't be getting paid 7to6, unless I bet $6. (If someone knows of a casino, other than an online one, that pays the $5.83 on the $5 Place 6, I'd really like to go visit that casino.)

A similar thing is true on odds. I've seen plenty of people who don't know any better that will bet an odd amount as the free odds when the point is 5 or 9. Thus, instead of getting 3to2, they are getting worse odds than that.

Recently, I was playing craps, and saw a youngish looking man come up to the table, and tell the dealer he wanted $5 on the 8. The dealer said, it should be 6. The man said, no I only want 5. At this point, the dealer looked at him a bit more carefully, and asked for identification. He also asked for ID on the girlfriend as well. Both of them turned out to be around 25 years old. I don't know if the dealer really felt they LOOKED young, or if it was the fact that the guy was making a weird and wrong amount bet that caused the dealer to feel that they were probably too young since they obviously didn't know the game very well.

Sometimes, I will hear dealers correct the players and tell them they need to bet in increments of $6 on the Place 6 or 8, or tell them to throw an extra buck on their odds to make it an even number. But other times, I don't hear the dealers correct the players, and nobody ever indicates to the player that they are getting the worst of the odds. And even if the dealer tells the player to throw an extra buck on the odds, or give him the extra buck for the Place bet, there is never any explanation of why they are giving out the extra buck. (In casinos that allow dealers to hustle tips, I've noticed dealers using this as a way to get tips. The person throws $5 for a Place 6 several times, and each time the dealer asks for another $1 to make it an even $6. Eventually the player gets to the point where he realizes he's supposed to throw in $6 and does so, and the dealer still asks for another $1, with a "for the boys" muttered very slightly under his breath. The player does so, because the player is in a habit of doing so, without realizing that the $1 isn't going to himself, but rather as a bet for the dealers. Not many casinos allow this kind of hustling, but it is very interesting to watch in those that do.)

So then, my question is, should players be allowed to make the wrong dollar amount bets? I mean, if a player is allowed to bet $5 on the Place 6, then why not allow the Big 6 bet? On the other hand, if we're going to tell players that they are not allowed to bet in anything other than increments of $6 on the Place 6, then I agree with getting rid of the Big 6 bet. If a player throws down $5 and asks for a Place 6, then dealer can then say, no bet, it has to be in increments of $6.

(I guess I should note that all of this is contingent on, I guess at least a $5 minimum table. Obviously, those with less than that might have different such rules.)

The same could be said for the Any Seven bet vs. Hopping the 7's. Maybe only one of those bets should be allowed, and only the one that has the better payout. (Actually, if anybody can explain to me why the hop is better than the Any 7, I'd appreciate it. I never quite fully got it.) Also the Horn bet vs. just betting C-E.

s43132

at $3 tables. its common to see people place $3 on the numbers. getting paid even money on 6 or 8. 4:3 on 5 or 9. and 5:3 on 4 and 10. ive also seen players place the 6 or 8 for $12, press it to $26 (pays $30) on a hit, then press it to $43 (pays $50) on the next hit.

just for kicks.

a $35 placebet on the 6 or 8 would pay $40.
a $52 placebet on the 6 or 8 would pay $60.

some other examples.

a $18 placebet on the 5 or 9 would pay $25.
a $43 placebet on the 5 or 9 would pay $60.

a $28 placebet on the 4 or T would pay $50.

Quote: 7craps

Rapid Craps table at Bill's in Vegas on the strip
It pays ANY place bet made rounded to the penny!
You can make a place bet from $3 to $300 and any $ amount in between
AND it pays ANY odds bet to the penny.
Hope more Rapid Craps tables make it into more casinos since the trial run at Bill's is now complete.

Players should be allowed to make any $, unit bet they like to.
It is good service that the dealer will point out what a correct bet should be in order to receive a correct odds payout and not suffer any breakage.
Bad when dealers get an attitude over such a trivial thing! Never saw anyone die from it, cause world calamities like they act.

There are two casinos near me that aren't allowed real table games, so they have the big Shufflemaster electronic craps game. Its essentially like rapid craps, but not even the real table/dice...all electronic.

Min bet there is $1...and old guys will sit there for hours playing on $20, placing $1 on the 6/8. It pays out to the nearest $0.01.

ed43132

Quote: ruascott

There are two casinos near me that aren't allowed real table games, so they have the big Shufflemaster electronic craps game. Its essentially like rapid craps, but not even the real table/dice...all electronic.

We have the Vegas Star games by Shuffle Master here in CA Indian Casinos also.

Rapid Craps the players STILL roll the dice. A big difference in my opinion.
But you can only play what is offered.

ed43135

Quote: 7craps

$3 any seven pays $12 net win (4*$3) $13 down
$3 3way pays $13 net win (15*$1 - $2 that lost) $16 down (this only works if the hop bets pays 15 to 1, NOT 15 for 1)

Thank you. I messed up in thinking that the 3-way payed $15-$3 bets for a win of $12. Now I see I was off by the $1. Appreciate it.

If I owned a Casino I'd replace the Big6/8 with a $5 minimum "Big Red" that paid better than the "any 7" in the middle. You just couldnt place a $1 bet there. The Hedgers would go for it, and it would pay something like $22 to the 5.

I can dream ! [g]

Quote: konceptum

So then, my question is, should players be allowed to make the wrong dollar amount bets? I mean, if a player is allowed to bet $5 on the Place 6, then why not allow the Big 6 bet? On the other hand, if we're going to tell players that they are not allowed to bet in anything other than increments of $6 on the Place 6, then I agree with getting rid of the Big 6 bet. If a player throws down $5 and asks for a Place 6, then dealer can then say, no bet, it has to be in increments of $6.

Depending on the state there can be a powerful incentive for the casino to tell the player to throw down the extra $1, or whatever. It is called "breakage." In some states if there is a payout that results in a rounding error ($1.51 for example) the casino must round up. Imagine a $5 free-odds bet at 3:2 on the 5/9. You can't pay $7.50 unless you have $.50 chips, which will be rare. So the staste makes you give $8.00 It adds up and in this casew would flip the house edge to the player! Small stakes, but it will bleed a place.

Quote: rudeboyoi

...ive also seen players place the 6 or 8 for $12, press it to $26 (pays $30) on a hit, then press it to $43 (pays $50) on the next hit.

Bet $43 to win $50? Ewww! Ick!

I LOVE pressing my 6/8 to $42. There's something downright sexy about dropping $1 and picking up $50. :)


Oh, sure, in the long run $43 is better, particularly if, like me, you like to stop pressing for a few hits. But that's because I like that sexy $50 for $1 exchange!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

There's something downright sexy about dropping $1 and picking up $50.

I'm such a cheapskate, I stick to the $12 bet and drop a white to pick up three reds!

Is that the equivalent of cheap sex?

The casino should allow the player to bet whatever they want to and round down in all cases. Absolutely, the dealers should advice the player what the correct bet is. Some players, however, are stubborn and think they know what they are doing, and it is difficult for the dealers to be an advocate to the newbie, simply because they don't have time, and it's unlikely that they will receive a tip from the player.

It's an easy way for the casino to make money from a player's stubbornness/stupidity.

For me, if I see another player make the wrong bet, I usually tell them what a better play will be, but if I get a hint of indignation, I end it there and just shrug.

Quote: Doc

I'm such a cheapskate, I stick to the $12 bet and drop a white to pick up three reds!

Is that the equivalent of cheap sex?

I'm even cheaper. $3 6 and/or 8 going back and forth between getting 3 white wiht a .50 and getting 4 whites for a .50 :+)

Quote: miplet

I'm even cheaper. $3 6 and/or 8 going back and forth between getting 3 white wiht a .50 and getting 4 whites for a .50 :+)

It's been years since I have been at a table with chips less than $1, so I can't compete with that tale. Last game I saw like that was at the Nevada Palace. I did see a $1 min game at Hacienda in Boulder last January operating with a block so that it was only half a table with one dealer. I didn't play, but I didn't notice any fractional chips on the table.

Quote: Doc

It's been years since I have been at a table with chips less than $1, so I can't compete with that tale. Last game I saw like that was at the Nevada Palace. I did see a $1 min game at Hacienda in Boulder last January operating with a block so that it was only half a table with one dealer. I didn't play, but I didn't notice any fractional chips on the table.

I have played at Hacienda, but it was the first time I played craps and I can't for the life of me remember whether they had fractional chips or not. If they didn't, I don't remember how much odds you could take on the six and eight because obviously anything less than $5 would result in breakage. Joker's Wild in Henderson definitely has fractional chips. El Cortez might too. It would be nice if a local could provide a useful list.

I've asked that just about every time the subject comes up. Although I've never been there, Joker's Wild is the only name that pops up in responses. Word is that they only have one craps table. If I rent a car this time, I'm definately going to stop there at some point in September...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I've asked that just about every time the subject comes up. Although I've never been there, Joker's Wild is the only name that pops up in responses. Word is that they only have one craps table. If I rent a car this time, I'm definately going to stop there at some point in September...

I thought someone on here confirmed that El Co has quarter chips. I remember something about that, anyway....

I played at the El Cortez and have seen 50 cent chips there, thus allowing you to place the 6 or 8 for $3. But I haven't seen quarter chips.

Quote: Doc

I'm such a cheapskate, I stick to the $12 bet and drop a white to pick up three reds!
Is that the equivalent of cheap sex?

43, 26, 12, 50 ???
I can't do all that past-ten math that fast even if I stood at the craps table with my shoes already off.