Quote: AxelWolfNo issue, unless you take offense at being nice and and looking for reasons someone is a legitimate poster rather than a sock puppet or BS artist.
Okey dokey! That would be me, all right. It read somewhat differently than that.
No, in no way it wasn't meant as a derogatory comment. There's nothing wrong with with giving someone the benefit of the doubt. You're a moderator looking out for the best interest of the site and the owners. Missions response, and usually yours are probably exactly on par with what management should expect.Quote: beachbumbabsOkey dokey! That would be me, all right. It read somewhat differently than that.
Quote: 1BBWhile were at it, why the surge in long time lurkers who suddenly decide that it's time to make their first post? Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just naturally curious.
I haven't been a lurker, I'm actually new to the forum section of this site. I've enjoyed reading on this thread all of the differences between surveillance operations. There's a ton of great info on these forums but I probably won't post too often since there's not much love for surveillance on here :)
Quote: MissEyebut I probably won't post too often since there's not much love for surveillance on here :)
If you are looking for love, you are probably looking in the wrong place, MissEye. (just like the song says...lol)
But I can tell you that I 'appreciate' your participation here. Despite that I AP for a living, I am not one of those guys that thinks surveillance and pit folks are the enemy. Sure we have different agendas, interests and goals but generally, I feel like there is room for co-existence, especially if the AP (me) identifies and respects certain tolerance or comfort levels of the casino. These levels differ by casino, time, day and it is our job (AP's) to identify the level for that exact moment. In the event that I misidentify such a level or misread a certain situation and am asked not to play right then, I don't take that personally. It's business.
Communicating with folks like yourself on websites like this as well as in real life (I have a real good friend who works the pit), have helped me to do my job of understanding comfort and tolerance levels, so I welcome every chance I get to interact with you folks.
I also find it very interesting that many folks that work the other side, the evil side, lol, as you do, are interested in our side outside of the work place and often play or are learning to play with an advantage. So I certainly don't look at you as the enemy. :)
Quote: kewljIf you are looking for love, you are probably looking in the wrong place, MissEye. (just like the song says...lol)
But I can tell you that I 'appreciate' your participation here. Despite that I AP for a living, I am not one of those guys that thinks surveillance and pit folks are the enemy. Sure we have different agendas, interests and goals but generally, I feel like there is room for co-existence, especially if the AP (me) identifies and respects certain tolerance or comfort levels of the casino. These levels differ by casino, time, day and it is our job (AP's) to identify the level for that exact moment. In the event that I misidentify such a level or misread a certain situation and am asked not to play right then, I don't take that personally. It's business.
Communicating with folks like yourself on websites like this as well as in real life (I have a real good friend who works the pit), have helped me to do my job of understanding comfort and tolerance levels, so I welcome every chance I get to interact with you folks.
I also find it very interesting that many folks that work the other side, the evil side, lol, as you do, are interested in our side outside of the work place and often play or are learning to play with an advantage. So I certainly don't look at you as the enemy. :)
Thanks kewlj. I do hope to show that many of us evil side people have nothing against AP. I do play some myself and enjoy learning about the best ways to give myself advantages.
Quote: MissEyeNot really. Anytime I see an under pay I call down and have it corrected immediately. We also go through what ever measures we can to return money when someone accidently leaves chips at the table or at the cage. Believe what you like.
I agree. We do it all the time at my property as well. When we come over to pay someone who was shorted, you would be amazed at the response from not only the player involved, but all the other players who witness the transaction.
Quote: Zcore13Your last paragraph made me smile. Pit personnel "name" unknown players all the time. My all time favorite was a guy that would puff out his cheeks when he was playing. He was known as blowfish for years.
And by the way, it takes me about a shoe, at the very most and rarely two to be sure someone is or isn't an Advantage Blackjack player. I've never been wrong after reviewing tape. I think it's much easier in the trenches than via cameras. Many more things to use to determine it.
ZCore13
I laughed at this one. We do name the unrated players. We had one guy at a property long ago who when we asked him if he wanted to be rated he yelled "Leave Me Alone". Ever since then, we rated him as "Lee Malone". Everyone immediately knew who that was. Happens a lot.
AP's also have nicknames for casino employees and other AP's.Quote: FCBLComishI laughed at this one. We do name the unrated players. We had one guy at a property long ago who when we asked him if he wanted to be rated he yelled "Leave Me Alone". Ever since then, we rated him as "Lee Malone". Everyone immediately knew who that was. Happens a lot.
Quote: tongniare you guys prosecuting offset betting or claiming it's a crime?
edit: in conjunction with a program
Offset betting in any significant volume is a big red flag. If it is a company that has to follow U.S. money laundering rules than you can expect to get warned so the company doesn't get fined by the IRS. If you continue than you could be backed off, or at a minimum have a suspicious activity report on you referred to relevant authorities depending on the local jurisdiction and rules.
If you are offset betting on program, you would stick out like dog's balls as a potential A.P. You are just begging for trouble.
Quote: KingoftheEye.
If you are offset betting on program, you would stick out like dog's balls as a potential A.P. You are just begging for trouble.
This is horribly, horribly wrong. There maybe some obscure comp hustle but the expected loss of both players is exactly the same. In fact, the house should welcome it as it almost completely removes variance and ensures the house acquires its advantage. From what I hear some casinos will not book a larger bet on either side unless there is some offsetting wager
Quote: LVJackalThis is horribly, horribly wrong. There maybe some obscure comp hustle but the expected loss of both players is exactly the same. In fact, the house should welcome it as it almost completely removes variance and ensures the house acquires its advantage. From what I hear some casinos will not book a larger bet on either side unless there is some offsetting wager
So, two players on loss rebate programs, offset betting against each other couldn't get an advantage?
To test this imagine a double zero roulette wheel:
One bets $100 Black, one $100 Red..
36 spins they net 0 and 2 spins they lose $400 total, therefore EV= 400/38 = 10.526 or 5.263% of the wager... kinda... really close to the house edge...
Quote: LVJackalThen it is the program itself that has the flaw... if only based on loss and not on theoretical.. offset betting then would enable one to further exploit it... but to be clear.. it is the loss rebate that allows for the advantage.
To test this imagine a double zero roulette wheel:
One bets $100 Black, one $100 Red..
36 spins they net 0 and 2 spins they lose $400 total, therefore EV= 400/38 = 10.526 or 5.263% of the wager... kinda... really close to the house edge...
Great, so you admit I wasn't so horribly wrong, I know that's a tough call for a player to make on a casino person, and I appreciate it. By the way, your roulette example is valid, but a bit weak, instead think two players working together on loss rebate offsetting a baccarat game.
![](http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x318/lurtz1991/Model%20edits/Whitemane/whitemanered.png)
*bump*
Quote: DodsferdArise My Champion
*bump*World of Warcraft reference. Image is of Inquisitor Highmane, who says the above line before resurrecting a fallen warrior.
She says "bump" ?
Quote: RS
She says "bump" ?
No, lol. She says "Arise my champion"
It's just a reference that popped into my head when I thought to resurrect the thread.
Quote: DodsferdArise My Champion
*bump*World of Warcraft reference. Image is of Inquisitor Highmane, who says the above line before resurrecting a fallen warrior.
lol NEEEERRRRDDDDDDDDD