I Spy With My Mechanical Eye
Surveillance, it’s in every casino, you see the domes everywhere, but what do they see? Have you ever wondered if you’re being watched? What information is recorded? What is kept, and for how long?
What do we do?
The primary objective of a Surveillance department in a casino is asset protection. This primarily means that the department keeps an eye on any monetary transactions going on within the property, as well as liability protection for the casino and its employees. The department will have a multitude of tools available for their usage, from a powerful CCTV system, electronic logs and databases, as well as a network of information usually shared among other properties, and other separate entities.
What can we see?
CCTV systems are made up of both fixed cameras as well at PTZ domes. Gaming regulations may vary, but for the very least, you’ll be looking at fixed cameras on every progressive jackpot machine, point of sale machines, entrances, tables, cash out windows, safes, and back of house areas.
PTZ cameras will be present everywhere, with major focus on overlapping coverage of the table pit, wide angles and coverage over slot floors, any lounges / bars, high traffic areas, exterior angles on adjacent parking lots, walkways, loading docks, etc.
Recording quality again will vary in accordance to gaming regulations, but you should expect at least a 30 fp/s, 4CIF (Common Intermediate format) video quality. – On this note, I’m not sure what sort of quality you can expect with an Analog system. I’ve only ever used digital, and it can get scary from there.
The system that we personally use, records well above the minimum standards, with enough PTZ control to be able to zoom a PTZ in on a table from a physical distance of ~30 feet away, and be able to read lines of text from a book, or text on a cellular device.
Depending on manufacturer, PTZ control will include a number of utilities that enhance the operator’s ability to perform their job, most notably are functions like a 180 degree button to swing the camera around, a turbo to enhance the speed, various physical pre-set locations to auto zoom cameras in.
PTZ control is most handy in the event of an incident occurring, which involves Security’s attendance. In this aspect, the operators on shift will be making sure to collect facial shots of any parties involved, as well as keeping coverage of the entire interaction with Security, for as long as the subjects remain on property. This footage is then exported from the system and saved to an external source where it will not expire, and can be distributed to other properties, law enforcement, or used as evidence in court.
What do we record?
Gaming regulations require casinos in our province maintain a continuous recorded history of 7 days. The footage is recorded in a FIFO format (First in, First out) and is continually re-written over as new footage is recorded. In the event of something noteworthy requiring an indefinite expiry, it can been isolated from the DVR system it is recorded on, and exported to an external source, such as a physical or networked hard drive.
When it comes to the topic of Advantage Play, or Persons of Interest, there are a few different things that get pieced together. There isn’t always a specific route of steps to take, but more of a list of things we gather for getting our information. Initially, a zoomed in photograph of the individual is taken with a PTZ, along with any associated information at the time. Typical information collected about individuals includes:
1.) Full legal name
2.) Place and date of birth
3.) Type of Identification used, Place of Issue, Identification #
4.) Full address of residence
5.) Any available phone numbers
6.) Occupation
7.) Known preferences for game types
In Canada, an entity known as FINTRAC (Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Center of Canada) require all transactions above $9,000 to be documented with the first 6 items listed above, and submitted to them via fax or E-mail. Without following this procedure, patrons are issued a stop play until they comply with providing this information.
Given the above requirement set forth by the Federal Government, buying in or cashing out $9,000 or more in a 24 hour period, effectively gives the casino all of the required information we would potentially need to circulate to other properties. If a patron attempts to skirt around the limit by cashing out just under the limit, or holding on to the chips, a Suspicious Transaction may be filled out in lieu of the $9,000 required report. This STR (Suspicious Transaction Report) requires the same information, and is essentially just another way to glean the information we use to track players.
How do we identify Advantage Play, or Persons of Interest?
The most common way information is gathered from a player, is through the required documentation of FINTRAC. This gives us all the potential information we could need to identify anyone with substantial funds playing in the casino.
Advantage play is really only a concern at my place(s) of employment, in regards to the tables. Never in my employed history have we ever investigated any players for any VP play or any slot play in general.
When a person is suspected of actually knowing what they’re doing, we gather what information we can, and pass it along a confidential network, accessible by every other provincial casino.
For Blackjack, it’s really not difficult to identify someone who may be counting, as any AP knows the signs themselves. We have the added advantage of having all of the play recorded, so we are able to rewind back, and count down a shoe along with the suspected players. If we determine through review that a player is in fact counting, we send word down to the pit and inform them of our findings, and anyone who’s been backed off, can tell you what happens next.
This essentially covers what first comes to mind in regards to this department, but I’m more than happy to provide what details I can in regards to whatever else may be of interest.
Quote: DodsferdWhen a person is suspected of actually knowing what they’re doing
I chuckled at that
This was a great post! When we hear that surveillance can follow a patron from the time they enter a property until the time they leave, is that really true? Are there any blind spots besides the restrooms? Do elevators or any other areas have audio?
What is the casino's relationship with the police? For example, will they run a license plate just because you ask them to? What training does security go through? Are they "mall cops" or something more?
What is your policy on misuse of the cameras? We all know boys will be boys. Are they allowed to follow attractive women and point the camera at their chests?
I have a friend who worked surveillance at Foxwoods and he used to tell me that local police departments would bring film to the casino to be enhanced. Say a grainy film of a convenience store robbery or the like. Is casino equipment that good?
Quote: DodsferdWhen a person is suspected of actually knowing what they’re doing, we gather what information we can, and pass it along a confidential network, accessible by every other provincial casino.
As we've discussed many times around here, casinos don't want players who know what they are doing...
Quote: DodsferdFor Blackjack, it’s really not difficult to identify someone who may be counting, as any AP knows the signs themselves. We have the added advantage of having all of the play recorded, so we are able to rewind back, and count down a shoe along with the suspected players. If we determine through review that a player is in fact counting, we send word down to the pit and inform them of our findings, and anyone who’s been backed off, can tell you what happens next.
I get that you can figure out who is counting, but do you also track whether a counter is doing well or not?
Quote: 1BBThis was a great post! When we hear that surveillance can follow a patron from the time they enter a property until the time they leave, is that really true? Are there any blind spots besides the restrooms? Do elevators or any other areas have audio?
Thank you :)
Yes, we can. In some past incidents, I've had to maintain live CCTV coverage of people for an excess of 8 hours. As long as they're in view, they're on tape. Again, this is more for something escalating to court than anything else.
Edit: Forgot to answer the rest of this question; You can't have perfect coverage with directional cameras. We cover what we can, the best we can, but it's also in the hands of the operator. A well experienced operator will maximize the coverage, and minimize the blind spots when able. Elevators usually have cameras as well, although at least in Canada, audio recording is still strictly legal only when one party is directly involved in the conversation being recorded. Most CCTV systems are set up to include audio channels, but we don't use them (Thank God, as I don't want to hear the Bacc tables.)
Quote: 1BBWhat is the casino's relationship with the police? For example, will they run a license plate just because you ask them to? What training does security go through? Are they "mall cops" or something more?
About the same as any other civilian really. I've called 911 beyond count in my career. Sometimes CPS will let us know some information if we work with them long enough, but they don't really reveal too much. Security receive basic customer service and a PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tactics) training. I - Myself started out as Security. Some teams are better than others, some are a little more interested in just getting into fights. It's a department fueled by littleman syndrome.
Quote: 1BBWhat is your policy on misuse of the cameras? We all know boys will be boys. Are they allowed to follow attractive women and point the camera at their chests?
We operate (the professional ones at least) with the intent of standing up in court showing what we were filming and why. Sure, I recognize that attractive people walk around all the time, but my job is to protect the assets of the company, and the people I work with. I won't say that people haven't been ogled before, but honestly, I feel it's a little gross.
Quote: 1BBI have a friend who worked surveillance at Foxwoods and he used to tell me that local police departments would bring film to the casino to be enhanced. Say a grainy film of a convenience store robbery or the like. Is casino equipment that good?
Casino systems are among the top CCTV available from my experience. I'll still have new CPS officers enter the room and be blown away by what clarity we can see. Our latest technology that is being included into casinos are megapixel PTZ cameras, which are freaking phenomenal. Imagine getting a face shot of someone from across a football stadium, like they're standing in front of you.
Quote: HunterhillSo if someone were to win a slot jackpot of $9000 or more do they need to provide their information to the casino, Since gambling winnings are not taxable?
Yes, they still forfeit their information. Regardless of tax exemption, every $9,000 limit gets pegged. Even a 75 year old woman playing for 12 hours, if she reaches that limit, she gets ID'd.
Quote: RonCI get that you can figure out who is counting, but do you also track whether a counter is doing well or not?
Absolutely. It's not uncommon for high rollers or PoI to be tracked. Some of the players I've watched over the years have spreadsheets counting their buy ins, cash outs, and effective +/- for the day, as well as a running total. These logs can go back ~5 years depending on how often people play.
I know of at least 4 counters who we let play on a regular basis, just because they are horrid at actually making money. Kind of a sick industry really.
Quote: DodsferdI know of at least 4 counters who we let play on a regular basis, just because they are horrid at actually making money. Kind of a sick industry really.
I think one of those guys started a thread here LOL
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'm certain I've read this article somewhere else before.
I couldn't find it online.
Quote: odiousgambitI couldn't find it online.
Not everything in the AP world is online.
Also, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just stating that I think I've read the same thing before.
What can folks do to defeat or at least frustrate it?
*I'm not an AP: just curious*
Quote: IbeatyouracesNot everything in the AP world is online.
Also, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just stating that I think I've read the same thing before.
I'm sure that anyone who studies the subject has read similar things; isn't most casino stuff rehashed over and over anyway? Here the link to a book that hits on many of the words in the first post, but that makes total sense because I am sure successful surveillance operations follow a lot of the same ideas.
http://www.ravingconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Casino-Security-and-Gaming-Surveillance.pdf
Quote: HunterhillI wonder if the law has changed or if it's different depending on the province.? 5 years ago i hit a 20k royal on vp and declined to give Information and my partner hit a 12,500 payout on a table game and also didn't provide information.
Couldn't tell you why that'd be the case. FINTRAC has gone through some revisions throughout the years, but even 5 years ago, I can clearly recall submitting the forms. If they already had your information on file, they may have skipped asking you for it. Could be that the staff just didn't do their job, but I can't say for sure.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'm certain I've read this article somewhere else before.
From Alias to Plagiarist, recognizing the many faced hydra otherwise known as The Newcomer
~ An Epic Saga
Quote: MrVHow accurate is facial recognition software?
What can folks do to defeat or at least frustrate it?
*I'm not an AP: just curious*
We don't have access to a system of facial recognition yet. Our databases and knowledge relies purely on the operators being able to know who is who based on experience. Stick someone in a closed off room for 12 hours, and you'll learn faces and names pretty quickly. It can be a little difficult to get around being watched, there are strict policies regarding hats, sunglasses, etc. Avoiding regularities and patterns would be advised, as well as being in the casino during peak hours or busy times in general instead of being alone.
In general, if you're being watched for any reason, it may be weeks or so before you're ever approached or notified one way or another.
Quote: Dodsferd
From Alias to Plagiarist, recognizing the many faced hydra otherwise known as The Newcomer
~ An Epic Saga
Coming soon to a message board near you!
Seriously, that was hilarious. Best line I've seen here in a while.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'm certain I've read this article somewhere else before.
Oh my, someone copied something and passed it off as his own! Are you guys upset?
Quote: MrVDo you spend more of your surveillance time scanning the floor on your own, looking for anything unusual, or are you usually watching a particular person at the request of someone on the floor who cued you in?
Depends on the circumstance. When you spend hours watching people through CCTV, you become fairly adept at watching mannerisms. Body language can be very difficult to hide, and that's what we tend to look for. A very basic example, would be the type of focus people have while traversing a slot floor. Regular patrons tend to look at machines while walking. If your their is on people, cameras, or something else, then they're probably not thinking about which machine to play. They could be looking for someone, or just passing by, but it's simple body language like that, that can give away intentions.
*Sigh*Quote: 1BBI figured you were legitimate by the way you spelled behaviour early on. British or Canadian was my guess.
?
Very Cellini-esqueQuote: IbeatyouracesI'm certain I've read this article somewhere else before.
No offense, but staring at CCTV nonstop must get very tiresome.
Quote: MrVHow do stay alert?
No offense, but staring at CCTV nonstop must get very tiresome.
No offense taken at all. It's a legitimate concern in this department. Operators take breaks when they need to. Easily the best part of the job is the flexibility in break times. We can't predict when something will happen, so we just take a breather when we feel like it.
Duties performed while on shift vary from close watching staff / patrons, report writing, general scanning of areas, and log entries. Changing what you're spending time can help. If nothing else, take a walk around the building or something. There are multiple people working at any given time, so we have that allowance of leaving the room.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Not that it really matters and if you prefer not to divulge, it's all good... but would you happen to be female? I get this strange feeling you could be. Might just be too much time trying to be a step ahead of others at the casino. :)
ZCore13
Huh. Didn't know there was an effeminate nature to my posts. No, I'm not female.
Quote: DodsferdHuh. Didn't know there was an effeminate nature to my posts. No, I'm not female.
No, just a few words you used and good writing skills. No offense meant.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13No, just a few words you used and good writing skills. No offense meant.
ZCore13
None taken at all.
Edit: this post puts me over my daily limit. I'll be waiting till tomorrow to continue posting.
But more important, I am confused about the purpose of the post/thread. Dodsferd's introduction to the site as a surveillance guy? That's fine. I join in welcoming him. Over the years, chatting with surveillance and pit guys (I count a pit guy among my closest friends) has been beneficial to me in understanding the mindset and tolerance levels of some on the other side. It's always interesting.
I have also found a number of these guys (pit and surveillance) are also part-time counters/AP's, even if only at the hobbyist level. Dodsferd, can I ask if you engage in any counting or AP play during your off time?
Quote: kewljThe 'piece' (original post) doesn't sound familiar to me, but I respect the opinion of those that do think so, so that is something to consider, but I like to keep an open mind.
But more important, I am confused about the purpose of the post/thread. Dodsferd's introduction to the site as a surveillance guy? That's fine. I join in welcoming him. Over the years, chatting with surveillance and pit guys (I count a pit guy among my closest friends) has been beneficial to me in understanding the mindset and tolerance levels of some on the other side. It's always interesting.
I have also found a number of these guys (pit and surveillance) are also part-time counters/AP's, even if only at the hobbyist level. Dodsferd, can I ask if you engage in any counting or AP play during your off time?
Dodsferd was answering questions about his background and making good an offer to discuss these things, specifically from Mr.V but also others, in posting the piece on surveillance.
Quote: beachbumbabsDodsferd was answering questions about his background and making good an offer to discuss these things, specifically from Mr.V but also others, in posting the piece on surveillance.
Oh, Ok. Thanx Babs. And again, welcome to Dodsferd.
A couple more question, if I may:
Do you spend more time watching the gamblers or the casino staff?
Have you caught staff cheating, and if so, what were they doing and how did they trip up?
When a "whale" visits your casino (can't be too often: Alberta is far from the sea) do you spend extra time watching over him, and if so, why?
Thanks!
Quote: kewljThe 'piece' (original post) doesn't sound familiar to me, but I respect the opinion of those that do think so, so that is something to consider, but I like to keep an open mind.
But more important, I am confused about the purpose of the post/thread. Dodsferd's introduction to the site as a surveillance guy? That's fine. I join in welcoming him. Over the years, chatting with surveillance and pit guys (I count a pit guy among my closest friends) has been beneficial to me in understanding the mindset and tolerance levels of some on the other side. It's always interesting.
I have also found a number of these guys (pit and surveillance) are also part-time counters/AP's, even if only at the hobbyist level. Dodsferd, can I ask if you engage in any counting or AP play during your off time?
I have, yes. In all honesty, we're trained specifically to know the games inside and out. My knowledge is much stronger procedurally than mathmatically - in terms of the probabilities and such (Which is why I stuck around here to be honest), so I have used what I know to play in other casinos.
Gaming prohibits us from playing in our own place of employment, but makes no such restrictions for any other establishment in the city / province. Given that I see table play for ~10-12 hours a day, I can only hold so much interest. I enjoy playing Blackjack, but the rules in this city are awful in terms of player advantage.
I've only been to Vegas once, but the free alcohol and varied rules appealed to me greatly.
Quote: MrVYes, I appreciate the thread, Dodsferd.
A couple more question, if I may:
Do you spend more time watching the gamblers or the casino staff?
Have you caught staff cheating, and if so, what were they doing and how did they trip up?
When a "whale" visits your casino (can't be too often: Alberta is far from the sea) do you spend extra time watching over him, and if so, why?
Thanks!
It varies in terms of what ratio we watch patrons to staff. It's pretty easy to spot people who are predatory in nature; fishing for TITO tickets or valuables, and repeat visitors usually aren't here for malicious intent. Watching staff happens on a regular basis, at a previous place of employment, we kept close watches on staff on a rotating basis.
I've caught some really stupid things from dealing staff, but nothing grotesque in terms of cheat at plays. Other departments have been investigated for theft, fraud, indecent exposure.. The list goes on. There are actually very few things I can think of that haven't happened while I've been in this industry.
Yes, when "whales" visit, we spend an abhorrent amount of time watching them. I can't speak for other establishments outside of my employment, but the management tends to want to know every.freaking.detail about their play. We go into ridiculous detail in that area.
You gain a new respect for chip handling after watching someone vary bets of $5 - $9000, and having to report on what they wagered, for every single hand, for the entire duration of their stay.
I can nail down to the dollar, how much someone has in their possession. (Protip: Shoving chips into your pockets doesn't hide them as well as you'd think)
Quote: GWAENot necessarily for the OP, but most casinos have a security stand on the gaming floor. There is always a person watching a few monitors. What is the purpose of this area and what is he/she watching?
In the places I've worked, we have given the main entrance podium a monitor or two with some static cameras on other exits. It just gives them some awareness in regards to what is going on the other side of the building.
If you're talking about other places in the casino, I'm not sure. I'd say 99.8% of the CCTV in the building is being used by the Surveillance department, and nobody else.
I enjoy working at a smaller casino since we can watch all casino activity.
Nice to see another surveillance person! Canada casinos have many differences it seems. No taxing on gambling wins there? That's great!
Quote: MissEyeJust an FYI all casinos are set up different. Most of the bigger ones here allow security to have their own dispatch with cameras to control so they can watch more for people taking slot tickets and other suspicious characters. This allows surveillance to focus mainly on gaming activity.
I enjoy working at a smaller casino since we can watch all casino activity.
Nice to see another surveillance person! Canada casinos have many differences it seems. No taxing on gambling wins there? That's great!
Aye, that'd make sense. In the places I've worked, we control all of the CCTV. Security doesn't handle any of it, and I'm more than happy to have it that way.
Nope, we don't have any taxes for any of the wins. It's fantastic in that regard. I may have to shoot you a message and exchange some working details if you're interested. I'd love to know what other places use in terms of hardware.
Quote: rxwineWhen a serious crime occurs on the property (not specific to gaming) do the authorities come inside your area to review what filmed moments you may have or do you guys do the internal review for them.
Yes, our rules and regulations allow an external entity such as the city police entry into Surveillance with the approval of the department manager or supervisor. In addition, we usually burn our findings to a disc, and provide evidence which would be useful in court.
The following is my favorite casino surveillance video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kr_C9skuyI
Quote: rxwineThanks. Just for kicks.
The following is my favorite casino surveillance video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kr_C9skuyI
Well that's certainly something I've never seen before. Thanks for that! I did see a high limit Bacc player tear up and eat the 3rd card dealt to his bet. He lost the hand, and assumed we wouldn't collect his bet if we didn't have the card.
The pit had to sort all the remaining cards to identify which card it was, to complete the hand.
Quote: rxwineThanks. Just for kicks.
The following is my favorite casino surveillance video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kr_C9skuyI
Is it common to have a 'spare' ball sitting atop the apparatus like that? I have never noticed it, but I don't play roulette. If it is, I would think there could be an issue of it falling into play, as at last in this case there didn't seem to be all that much securing it up there.
This must happen a lot I heard a very similar story. Perhaps even here.Quote: DodsferdWell that's certainly something I've never seen before. Thanks for that! I did see a high limit Bacc player tear up and eat the 3rd card dealt to his bet. He lost the hand, and assumed we wouldn't collect his bet if we didn't have the card.
The pit had to sort all the remaining cards to identify which card it was, to complete the hand.
"assumed we wouldn't collect his bet if we didn't have the card." was the running joke from what I can remember.
Quote: kewljIs it common to have a 'spare' ball sitting atop the apparatus like that? I have never noticed it, but I don't play roulette. If it is, I would think there could be an issue of it falling into play, as at last in this case there didn't seem to be all that much securing it up there.
Spare ball is usually sitting in the dealers working area by the chips, sometimes in a cup/ashtray along with lammers.
Quote: AxelWolfThis must happen a lot I heard a very similar story. Perhaps even here.
"assumed we wouldn't collect his bet if we didn't have the card." was the running joke from what I can remember.
I wouldn't be at all surprised. In a game where the player is handed the cards directly, you're bound to run into awkward situations involving actually returning the cards back.
Logic would dictate that any hesitation would mean that the result was undesirable. I can't imagine a player refusing to return the card as they had just won, but hey.. Gambling does weird things to the human psyche.
One of the more funny things I've seen, was a disgruntled poker player try to rip one of the plastic cards. He didn't have the strength or leverage to tear the card, and Security still kicked him out. Play resumed as soon as the houseman slightly bent the card back into shape.
Possibly a female name maybe it was nareed
Baccarat was involved
heather
Member since: Jun 12, 2011
Threads: 8
Posts: 437
The idea is to turn over the card as slowly as possible, so as to prolong the suspense and add a degree of excitement to the game. So players will very slowly bend the corners up or squeeze the card until it flips over or whatnot. And then if you're not happy with what you got you can demonstrate your frustration by tearing the cards up and even, should the mood strike you, eating them, as I've seen done. The card antics are kind of like the Baccarat version of all the ritual and superstition at the Craps table, really.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/6824-high-limit-rooms-and-midi-baccarat-in-vegas/
Quote: DodsferdAye, that'd make sense. In the places I've worked, we control all of the CCTV. Security doesn't handle any of it, and I'm more than happy to have it that way.
Nope, we don't have any taxes for any of the wins. It's fantastic in that regard. I may have to shoot you a message and exchange some working details if you're interested. I'd love to know what other places use in terms of hardware.
Anytime Dodsferd. I love learning about other places.
Obviously using some computer program, but basically the idea is you stick a camera on a table, and it counts what has been shown, leaving an accurate count for staff to instantly see (without needing to back up the tape and count it personally)?
How often do you call down to the floor to correct a mistake, vs the floor calling up to you to confirm/deny something happened?
Quote: Maverick17Can the cameras "count" cards?
Obviously using some computer program, but basically the idea is you stick a camera on a table, and it counts what has been shown, leaving an accurate count for staff to instantly see (without needing to back up the tape and count it personally)?
How often do you call down to the floor to correct a mistake, vs the floor calling up to you to confirm/deny something happened?
As you're describing, no. I have had that exact conversation with my manager though, and it is entirely possible to integrate identification software that could be programmed to count by any means necessary to display a running / true count, as well as track bet volumes and deviations.
The technology is possible, though whether or not it is actually used in the foreseeable future is another thing. What I would like to see, is the above, as well as microchips in the table trays that give a visual count of what the drop / win-loss for each table is.
It's a little bit over the top in terms of Big Brother though, but that's the type of toys I'd like to play with.
In regards to mistakes, we get a call from the pit about ~60% of the time, whereas we call down about ~40% of the time. Pit Bosses should be on top of the tables, but that relies on them being in the right place at the right time. Our eyes don't blink, theirs do.
