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EvenBob
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May 3rd, 2015 at 6:05:17 PM permalink
It's the Old West at South Point, they
have security taking out their guns and
firing at moving cars. Yeehaw!!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/south-point-security-guard-fires-shot-during-confrontation
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Ibeatyouraces
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May 3rd, 2015 at 6:08:02 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

It's the Old West at South Point, they
have security taking out their guns and
firing at moving cars. Yeehaw!!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/south-point-security-guard-fires-shot-during-confrontation


Damn those pesky $5-$25 spread card counters!!

Actually, read this on APheat.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
JohnnyQ
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May 3rd, 2015 at 7:09:12 PM permalink
Wow. Like I said, the world is going down the toilet. Can anyone say "lawsuit" ?
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
gordonm888
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May 3rd, 2015 at 9:06:42 PM permalink
Another example of "law enforcement" acting with cowardice and timidity and bringing overwhelming force to bear on two people who were unlucky enough to get in his way.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Greasyjohn
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May 3rd, 2015 at 9:53:42 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Another example of "law enforcement" acting with cowardice and timidity and bringing overwhelming force to bear on two people who were unlucky enough to get in his way.



We really don't have the whole story yet.
AlanMendelson
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May 3rd, 2015 at 11:13:53 PM permalink
I don't know what the law is in Nevada, but here in California the security guard would have been arrested.

About eight years ago I was at a Bank of America ATM shortly after the bank closed -- and other customers were also at the ATMs outside the bank -- when an armored car pulled up to empty the ATMs. One of the guards got out of the armored car with his gun DRAWN and ordered everyone away from the ATMs.

It was illegal.

I immediately called the police who came sirens blasting.

We got the name and number of the armored car, (easy to do), and they got the guard. As the police explained -- absolutely no reason to pull a gun.

Now in the Nevada case -- there had better be a witness that the car was headed right for the guard if there laws are anything like California laws.
EvenBob
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May 4th, 2015 at 12:16:43 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

the car was headed right for the guard if there laws are anything like California laws.



'There' laws, Alan? Really? You start a new
thread about people using improper spelling,
then write there for 'their'?

My point is, knock off the anal retentiveness,
it's very unattractive. And not needed on the
internet. We're here to communicate, not
dictate..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Gandler
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May 4th, 2015 at 1:03:34 AM permalink
This was caught on tape no doubt so it won't be hard for the police to determine if security was in the right.

However, if they were indeed the car thieves, I don't feel slightly bad for them. I am actually glad security there has the rights to carry. We need armed security in NJ.

If they didn't have guns its pretty certain the thieves would have escaped.
AlanMendelson
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May 4th, 2015 at 2:20:05 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

'There' laws, Alan? Really? You start a new
thread about people using improper spelling,
then write there for 'their'?

My point is, knock off the anal retentiveness,
it's very unattractive. And not needed on the
internet. We're here to communicate, not
dictate..



Sorry, was posting using my cell phone and the auto correct didn't get it correct.

Was there something with my post that was objectionable? Please spell it out.
Greasyjohn
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May 4th, 2015 at 8:26:03 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I don't know what the law is in Nevada, but here in California the security guard would have been arrested.

About eight years ago I was at a Bank of America ATM shortly after the bank closed -- and other customers were also at the ATMs outside the bank -- when an armored car pulled up to empty the ATMs. One of the guards got out of the armored car with his gun DRAWN and ordered everyone away from the ATMs.

It was illegal.

I immediately called the police who came sirens blasting.

We got the name and number of the armored car, (easy to do), and they got the guard. As the police explained -- absolutely no reason to pull a gun.

Now in the Nevada case -- there had better be a witness that the car was headed right for the guard if there laws are anything like California laws.



Re: The ATM story, I think it's okay to have their gun drawn, but they can't point it at someone. In other words, out of the holster but being held at their side pointed down. And he should nicely ask, that after the person/s currently using the ATM was finished that persons in line, "Could you please step 10 feet away from the machines for our safety?" And if someone didn't comply that's just too bad for the guard.

The guard at South Point would have to have been in reasonable fear of life-threatening or great bodily harm--that he was going to be run over or rammed by the auto to have fired at it.
Face
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Face
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May 4th, 2015 at 9:21:47 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


Was there something with my post that was objectionable? Please spell it out.



Just this...

Quote: AlanMendelson

...if there laws are anything like California laws.



You totally get a pass if you're a non-gunner, as there would be no reason for you to know. But as a gunner, the thought that Cali gun laws reflect anything other than their own brand of absurdity made me fall out of my chair. Probably the funniest thing I've heard all month =)

But on your side bar, I totally agree. Law or not, Leo/guard or not, you do not pull your gun simply out of habit or because you are performing a particular task, unless said task is actively stopping a violent act, or approaching a subject who is suspected of committing a violent act. There is no way, no matter how insane or lax a state's laws are, that any Loomis or Brinks type branch is going to have "draw weapon" as part of their SOP. I don't care if you're a bleeding heart Cali liberal or a gun toting 2nd amendment warrior like myself; you see a gun drawn, you go into full alert mode. If I saw that, I'd either be vacating the area double-time, or I'd be taking cover and dropping my own hand to my hip, frantically searching for the threat.

Thanks for the call. He needed a stern talking to and a retrain, at minimum.

As for Nevada, no comment. Don't have enough info at the moment, although so far, I certainly have questions.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
JackStraw8004
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May 4th, 2015 at 12:46:44 PM permalink
I had thought that almost every casino disarmed their security people.
Gandler
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May 4th, 2015 at 10:12:27 PM permalink
Quote: JackStraw8004

I had thought that almost every casino disarmed their security people.



I am not sure about NV or other states, but in NJ this is the case, the only exception in certain circumstances I can think of is off duty cops working as security guards.
kewlj
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May 4th, 2015 at 10:35:21 PM permalink
My thoughts on this incident. First a disclaimer. I had a minor incident with a South Point security guy last summer, in which he demonstrated his lack of professionalism, so I may be biased in my opinion.

I want to start with a thought on this "fearful" thing. I first though about this back during the coverage of the George Zimmerman-Travon Martin trial. If being "fearful" somehow gives an armed security type person (or neighborhood watch in the case of Zimmerman) the OK, to use lethal force, well...that is a problem. It goes to the fact, that these wanna-be cop types do not have adequate training. People will use such force first and then claim they feared for their life.

Casino security people are NOT cops. They haven't had the training that police officers have. That has become very evident, in the many abuse cases and incidents against various casino security over the past few year, some publicized that we know about, many more that are settles privately and quietly. These people are NOT cops....they are $8-$12 an hour "wanna-bes". In many cases, they are people who couldn't cut, or were turned down by various police forces.

I believe the majority of casino security should be unarmed, most are more like ambassador or an extra set of eyes. A handful of higher level trained higher-ups being armed to handle rare incidents that require force. I mean come on, the guy riding around the parking lot in a truck, is a meter maid. If he sees anything suspicious he should call the 'real' police.

In this particular case, while I have no doubt the 'suspects' are bad people, the security person should have contacted the police. By taking matters into his own hands, while the "bad guys" have been arrested, they are liable to end up going free on a bad arrest and unlawful detainment.
Gandler
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May 4th, 2015 at 10:44:09 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

My thoughts on this incident. First a disclaimer. I had a minor incident with a South Point security guy last summer, in which he demonstrated his lack of professionalism, so I may be biased in my opinion.

I want to start with a thought on this "fearful" thing. I first though about this back during the coverage of the George Zimmerman-Travon Martin trial. If being "fearful" somehow gives an armed security type person (or neighborhood watch in the case of Zimmerman) the OK, to use lethal force, well...that is a problem. It goes to the fact, that these wanna-be cop types do not have adequate training. People will use such force first and then claim they feared for their life.

Casino security people are NOT cops. They haven't had the training that police officers have. That has become very evident, in the many abuse cases and incidents against various casino security over the past few year, some publicized that we know about, many more that are settles privately and quietly. These people are NOT cops....they are $8-$12 an hour "wanna-bes". In many cases, they are people who couldn't cut, or were turned down by various police forces.

I believe the majority of casino security should be unarmed, with a handful of higher level trained higher-ups being armed. I mean come on, the guy riding around the parking lot in a truck, is a meter maid. If he sees anything suspicious he should call the 'real' police.

In this particular case, while I have no doubt the 'suspects' are bad people, the security person should have contacted the police. By taking matters into his own hands, while the "bad guys" have been arrested, they are liable to end up going free on a bad arrest and unlawful detainment.



Well no, because security can't do a legal arrest (well I suppose in some states anyone can do a citizen arrest as anyone can).

But their actions as far as I know cannot effect the police arrest unless the police acted inappropriately upon their arrival (but even if that was the case, it would have nothing to do with the security actions).


As for security having guns. I think any of us who spends a large percentage of their free time time in casinos have had bad experiences with some guards. However, I have had far worse experiences, with not so great characters who also frequent casinos. And, I know especially in AC, gangs, have no issue carrying wherever they want, they don't care about NJ's strict laws. I would feel much safer with armed security. I wish more security had strong patrols in their parking garages like it sounds this place does. I usually park valet, not because I don't mind walking, but because the garages attract a plethora of unsavory characters, and security is almost never to be found in the garages.

I have a hard time feeling bad for parking garage thieves. I actually feel good that at least in that casino security is empowered to take harsh measures when needed.
AlanMendelson
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May 4th, 2015 at 10:44:55 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Re: The ATM story, I think it's okay to have their gun drawn, but they can't point it at someone.



I should have been more clear. Yes, he pointed the gun at several patrons.

It is not unusual for armed security guards to have their guns drawn and held at their sides, with the guns pointed to the ground, when moving large amounts of cash in and out of buildings to/from armored cars.

In the BofA case the guard drew his gun and pointed it at customers.
kewlj
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May 4th, 2015 at 10:56:24 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler


As for security having guns. I think any of us who spends a large percentage of their free time time in casinos have had bad experiences with some guards. However, I have had far worse experiences, with not so great characters who also frequent casinos. And, I know especially in AC, gangs, have no issue carrying wherever they want, they don't care about NJ's strict laws. I would feel much safer with armed security. I wish more security had strong patrols in their parking garages like it sounds this place does. I usually park valet, not because I don't mind walking, but because the garages attract a plethora of unsavory characters, and security is almost never to be found in the garages.

I have a hard time feeling bad for parking garage thieves. I actually feel good that at least in that casino security is empowered to take harsh measures when needed.



South Point is actually located in one of the 'better' areas of Las Vegas, a somewhat newer area. As with any casino, I am sure they have their fair share of crime. Incident immediately comes to mind of a shooting a year or so ago, right at the front door, valet parking area. It occurred during the South Point Gun show weekend, which sort of speaks for itself. Lol.

While South Point doesn't have a parking garage, which is an area of high crime. It has fairly extensive parking lots surrounding the casino. The reason the parking lots are well patrolled is not particularly crime related or crime prevention related, but South point had a history of homeless people and/or patrons sleeping in their cars in the parking lot, which they want to deter.
DrawingDead
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May 4th, 2015 at 11:25:35 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

While South Point doesn't have a parking garage, which is...

SouthPoint has an enormous parking garage. I've parked in it many times, and forgotten which of about eight or so floors of it (or more than sixteen floors of garage parking depending on how you count them) I was parked on more than once. The garage occupies the Silverado Ranch side of the property, and the two elevator banks containing the four garage elevators are on the north side of the casino, which is the side nearest the Italian restaurant and the box office, on the right hand edge of this property map:

http://s427445329.onlinehome.us/images/propmaps/sptmap.jpg



And here is the street view from Google.
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kewlj
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May 5th, 2015 at 12:07:39 AM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

SouthPoint has an enormous parking garage. I've parked in it many times, and forgotten which of about eight or so floors of it (or more than sixteen floors of garage parking depending on how you count them) I was parked on more than once. The garage occupies the Silverado Ranch side of the property, and the two elevator banks containing the four garage elevators are on the north side of the casino, which is the side nearest the Italian restaurant and the box office, on the right hand edge of this property map:



Oh my you are right, it does. I go in from that side too....don't know how I forgot about it. Of course I don't park in the garage....I don't even park in the parking lot, I get dropped and picked up at the door...lol. That's no excuse for that 'brain freeze' though.
odiousgambit
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May 5th, 2015 at 4:58:32 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

In the BofA case the guard drew his gun and pointed it at customers.



Then that means he not only did not get proper professional training, but also never learned basic gun safety. If you don't know that you don't point your gun at anything - ever - you do not intend to shoot, then you have no business with a gun under any circumstance.
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TwoFeathersATL
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May 5th, 2015 at 7:10:17 AM permalink
Always be wary of men with big guns and small minds ( and/or penis ), they are not happy campers. Really big PU trucks can be a 'tell'. 2F
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Greasyjohn
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May 5th, 2015 at 7:30:23 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Always be wary of men with big guns and small minds ( and/or penis ), they are not happy campers. Really big PU trucks can be a 'tell'. 2F



Espically big pick up trucks that has been raised to show off added suspension parts. (I used the word "has" intentionally to enhance the reader's experience.)

It's going to be interesting when the versions of the facts of the shooting and the background of the occupants of the car come to light.
Romes
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May 5th, 2015 at 12:56:32 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

It's the Old West at South Point, they
have security taking out their guns and
firing at moving cars. Yeehaw!!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/south-point-security-guard-fires-shot-during-confrontation


So I really hope more information is made available. From this article alone it sounds as though security had NO RIGHT whatsoever to even attempt to detain these guys. Just because you 'think' they might have been casing the area (be more vague) and they "might" have been involved in another crime? Well this means you have no clue if they were or not, so they're just another citizen. Zero evidence, zero reasoning, and the men stated that they wanted to leave. Illegal detention, then firing shots when they attempt to leave... This guy should be fired, sued on a personal level, and SP should be sued for employing him.

This is all regardless if the guys were 'bad' guys or not. SP/their security really f*d up pretty bad, at least from the article posted.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
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