Slots vs 3 card poker vs blackjack
Poll
 | 2 votes (50%) | ||
| | 1 vote (25%) | ||
| | 1 vote (25%) |
4 members have voted
the casino is 5 minutes from me in Oklahoma
with slots i seem to be the unluckiest guy in the world. for over a year i've gone at least 1-2 times per week with no luck. i had one jackpot of $600 last fall but lost 5 times that over the last year. i can sit between 2 people and they are both ringing and hitting jackpots and nothing for me. this morning i went and played 10 spins on a $5 slot with no luck - a guy played it right after me and hit for $450 on first spin. Now i have a bad attitude about slots.
my problem is that Oklahoma requires an ante for the table games - 50 cents a hand for poker, blackjack, etc.
so what would be my best odds for spending time at the casino and hopefully with better odds than I've had? if my choices are 3 card poker (with ante), blackjack (with ante) or slots - where is my time and money best spent?
thanks for your suggestions
I've had some pretty decent luck on Class II slots.
If you can finagle a no-ante on the table games - either by betting large enough or using the players card, blackjack is the way to go. If you can't get around the ante, look for Class III video poker. If it's Class II, just find something amusing, and look for the gaggle of chain smoking old ladies who are playing forever without sticking more money in the machines - do what they're doing.
If you just keep losing, just quit playing.... unless you like losing.
Quote: wmtrecruiterthanks for the info - how do i tell if they are class II or class III slots?
If the sign on the front of the place says it's a Class II gaming facility, that's a good indicator that it's Class II.
If there's a bingo card and/or bingo ball animation, that's Class II.
If there's a sticker on the machine that says "Prizes awarded based on Bingo results", that's Class II.
If the play button says "Play/Daub", that's Class II.
If you have to double-tap the play button, that's Class II. (Once to play, once to daub... often followed by a congratulatory message like "You daubed in time!")
You can ask. (Try asking at the players club.)
Otherwise, it might be Class III.
Note that to the casual player, there's very little difference overall - In either case, you stick in money, you smack the button, you might get some money back. The difference is in how the win is determined. In Class III, it's you vs the machine's internal RNG. In Class II, it's you vs a few other players, with the winner(s) determined by a central RNG.
Seriously... sweet talk the old ladies. Figure out what they're doing, and do that. If they're able to play for hours on $5, you might be able to, too.
Quote: DieterIf the sign on the front of the place says it's a Class II gaming facility, that's a good indicator that it's Class II.
If there's a bingo card and/or bingo ball animation, that's Class II.
If there's a sticker on the machine that says "Prizes awarded based on Bingo results", that's Class II.
If the play button says "Play/Daub", that's Class II.
If you have to double-tap the play button, that's Class II. (Once to play, once to daub... often followed by a congratulatory message like "You daubed in time!")
You can ask. (Try asking at the players club.)
Otherwise, it might be Class III.
Note that to the casual player, there's very little difference overall - In either case, you stick in money, you smack the button, you might get some money back. The difference is in how the win is determined. In Class III, it's you vs the machine's internal RNG. In Class II, it's you vs a few other players, with the winner(s) determined by a central RNG.
Seriously... sweet talk the old ladies. Figure out what they're doing, and do that. If they're able to play for hours on $5, you might be able to, too.
Great job Dieter, I have never seen it broken down that way for someone.
As far as the poll is concerned, if those were my only options I think I would decline to gamble. I play -EV games so obviously I don't mind getting ripped off, but there is a limit beyond which I won't go.
Quote: jml24The biggest difference as far as I am concerned is that there is no way to provide real video poker with a Class II machine.
I disagree. My business partner and I came up with a method for bingo based class II that would provide a "real" video poker experience with the exact same paytables, paybacks, and probabilities. We even pitched it to the major manufacturers but with Class II slowly going away they didn't believe it was worth implementing (and paying for). The sad fact is that most people playing in that space don't know or care that it is different than traditional video poker. They are just gamblers and will get the same winning or losing experience either way.
Quote: jml24It doesn't sound very fun and very likely would have a much higher house advantage than traditional video poker with moderate to good pay tables.
That entirely depends on the bingo paytable.
As for the fun part... there's no skill involved. You smack the button, and you win or lose. You can smack other buttons, but that has no effect on the game outcome - it's strictly part of the "entertainment portion of the game".
If the bingo paytable is structured to be comparable to card hand frequencies, your overall RTP should be very close to video poker with correct strategy. If the bingo paytable is structured otherwise... well, it won't approximate the same RTP.
Quote: Dieter
If the bingo paytable is structured to be comparable to card hand frequencies, your overall RTP should be very close to video poker with correct strategy. If the bingo paytable is structured otherwise... well, it won't approximate the same RTP.
I think generally it's not comparable. The one thing I despise is, it's misleading. Many VP players believe that strategy and the paytable matters. Not with Class II though...and class II VP games are almost ALWAYS "full pay" paytables in my experience.
Quote: tringlomaneand class II VP games are almost ALWAYS "full pay" paytables in my experience.
The only paytable that matters on a Class II machine is the bingo paytable.
All other displays - including the VP paytable - are for entertainment purposes only.
Quote: jml24The biggest difference as far as I am concerned is that there is no way to provide real video poker with a Class II machine. I have heard of such machines that simulate video poker by "correcting" your hold cards to achieve the predetermined payout. I have never seen such a machine in WA where I live (Class II only.)
I've seen them at Red Wind (Olympia), and Muckleshoot (Auburn), and I assume they exist state-wide. They don't "correct" the hold cards, but they add an extra sixth bonus card to make the pre-determined payout possible. It's so deceptive; I'm surprised the state gambling commission endorses it.
Quote: wmtrecruiteri'm curios to my odds and what everyone this of this
the casino is 5 minutes from me in Oklahoma
with slots i seem to be the unluckiest guy in the world. for over a year i've gone at least 1-2 times per week with no luck. i had one jackpot of $600 last fall but lost 5 times that over the last year. i can sit between 2 people and they are both ringing and hitting jackpots and nothing for me. this morning i went and played 10 spins on a $5 slot with no luck - a guy played it right after me and hit for $450 on first spin. Now i have a bad attitude about slots.
my problem is that Oklahoma requires an ante for the table games - 50 cents a hand for poker, blackjack, etc.
so what would be my best odds for spending time at the casino and hopefully with better odds than I've had? if my choices are 3 card poker (with ante), blackjack (with ante) or slots - where is my time and money best spent?
thanks for your suggestions
Your question leaves a lot of other questions that need to be answered to get a full picture.
How much do you want to wager per hand? You did $5 per pull on the slot machine, but $5 per hand on 3 card poker can't really win you anything.
Which type of game do you prefer? I think it' important you enjoy the game if it's a table game or video poker, otherwise you'll lose some focus and misplay hands. Slots you can't really misplay.
Are you wanting to grind out $5 wins and the lowest possible house edge or are you willing to give up a little bit on the edge to the house for a higher possible return?
What kind of bankroll are we talking about each time you visit the casino?
ZCore13
Random or not if the payback is 95% it doesn't really matter.
I'm going say it might affect you if you're an AP playing for a particular promotion where you had to hit a specific hand because you couldn't calculate how often it would come up. Perhaps it might even come up more often than it should leaving you with a better opportunity.
As regular play or for comps and mail class 2 or 3 if paybacks are the same it's really just the principal of it. People don't like non random games.
I'm not going to pass up an advantage if it's random or not. IE online casinos may not be random but you can still profit under the right conditions.
Quote: AxelWolfCorrect me if im wrong. Class 2 VP assuming they set the class 2 at 95%. It wouldn't be any different than playing a class 3 machine that has a optimal payback of 95%
Random or not if the payback is 95% it doesn't really matter.
The big challenge will be reading and understanding the bingo paytable, to confirm that it's 95%. (The variance will likely be different, of course, even for the same RTP.)
VP paytables are much, much, much simpler.
But yes, 95% is 95%, and with Class II you shouldn't need to worry about strategy.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyThe consideration for blackjack it would depend on the table rules and your bankroll. If the BJ rules offered give the house a 0.5% edge and you play $100 hands then the house edge is 1%. If you play by the same rules but wager $5 the house edge would be 10.5%. I voted assuming decent BJ rules and black check play.
Huh? That's not how it works. .5% is .5% no matter how much you bet.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Huh? That's not how it works. .5% is .5% no matter how much you bet.
ZCore13
This included the $0.50 ante.
Quote: CrystalMathThis included the $0.50 ante.
Oh ok. Understood now.
ZCore13
I didn't present my argument clearly, sorry for the confusion. You are correct that the house edge due to the rules does not vary by wager. However, for the ante game the house edge is a composite of the edge the rules provide plus a function of the ante and wager. Thanks, CrystalMath, for pointing that out. Mission146 provides an analysis of the ante component on the composite house edge in the HOW bad is $1 blackjack? thread.Quote: Zcore13Huh? That's not how it works. .5% is .5% no matter how much you bet.
Quote: AxelWolfCorrect me if im wrong. Class 2 VP assuming they set the class 2 at 95%. It wouldn't be any different than playing a class 3 machine that has a optimal payback of 95%
Random or not if the payback is 95% it doesn't really matter.
I'm going say it might affect you if you're an AP playing for a particular promotion where you had to hit a specific hand because you couldn't calculate how often it would come up. Perhaps it might even come up more often than it should leaving you with a better opportunity.
As regular play or for comps and mail class 2 or 3 if paybacks are the same it's really just the principal of it. People don't like non random games.
I'm not going to pass up an advantage if it's random or not. IE online casinos may not be random but you can still profit under the right conditions.
Yes the Class II vs Class III discussion always made me scratch my head a little bit when applied to slots. I don't see the big difference from the players perspective if the hold is set the same. VP, obviously, is a different story entirely.
