EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 421
  • Posts: 23046
December 13th, 2014 at 12:05:58 AM permalink
Quote: Calder


"How did the committee report get these things so wrong? Astonishingly, the staff avoided interviewing any of us who had been involved in establishing or running the program, the first time a supposedly comprehensive Senate Select Committee on Intelligence study has been carried out in this way."



Amazing, huh. Only cost us 40 mil to get
a full of crap biased report.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1194
December 13th, 2014 at 8:07:52 AM permalink
Quote: Calder

Maybe I missed it, but I am a little surprised that no one has mentioned the written response to the Senate report from three former CIA directors and three former deputy directors, printed in the Wall Street Journal on Dec. 10.

I'd link, but WSJ is a paid site; the app won't even allow a cut-and-paste. They disagree with the majority's report, and it's an illuminating read.

Perhaps most telling:

"How did the committee report get these things so wrong? Astonishingly, the staff avoided interviewing any of us who had been involved in establishing or running the program, the first time a supposedly comprehensive Senate Select Committee on Intelligence study has been carried out in this way."

Edit: I'll try the link to the main site, dunno if a paid subscription is required to view --

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cia-interrogations-saved-lives-1418142644



Not too suprising, their intention was to stir controversy, assembling the facts would have hindered their goal.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13587
December 13th, 2014 at 8:55:05 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Senator Warren and the TEA Party oppose a change to Dodd-Frank that gives the banks a larger Federal safety net in the event of another collapse.

The change shifts more derivatives units losses to the taxpayer when these investments fail.

When they win their bets, they keep the money.

When they lose, we have to cover their losses.

'Normal' Dems joined Republicans and passed this legislation.



That's sort of true. "Normal" Dems voted it down on the initial test vote. The change you mention is a rider to a much larger bill. The Dems worked to get the rider removed, though the leadership and the White House had signed off on it as a necessary evil/compromise (depending on your POV) to get the important stuff passed. In the final vote, enough Dems came over to get the bill passed, barely. The other poison pill was a campaign contribution expansion to some insane amount, like $125,000 per individual per 2 year cycle. (Where it had been 2300, then 5000 in the last 20 years).

It may not survive the Senate, either of those riders. Let's hope it doesn't, or they get removed in reconciliation.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1194
December 13th, 2014 at 10:21:26 AM permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pFchc-ajW8

-Douglas Murray the British Neocon seems to have the most realistic view on this.


"The CIA and the minority representatives strongly disputes a lot of the major findings in this report"

"The Number of human rights complaints in a society is exactly inverse of the number of human rights in a society"
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 3228
December 13th, 2014 at 12:09:58 PM permalink
Everyone is focusing on the wrong torture report. GW's blog;http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/media-focusing-wrong-senate-torture-report

<Instead, it is the Senate Armed Services Committee’s report that dropped the big bombshell regarding the U.S. torture program.>

<
The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting FALSE confessions for propaganda purposes.>

<The White House started pushing the use of torture not when faced with a “ticking time bomb” scenario from terrorists, but when officials in 2002 were desperately casting about for ways to tie Iraq to the 9/11 attacks — in order to strengthen their public case for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.>

<Colin Powell's former chief of staff (Colonel Larry Wilkerson) wrote in 2009 that the Bush administration's "principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qaeda.">

<Colin Powell's former chief of staff (Colonel Larry Wilkerson) wrote in 2009 that the Bush administration's "principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qaeda.">
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 3228
December 13th, 2014 at 1:16:24 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

Maybe I missed it, but I am a little surprised that no one has mentioned the written response to the Senate report from three former CIA directors and three former deputy directors, printed in the Wall Street Journal on Dec. 10.

I'd link, but WSJ is a paid site; the app won't even allow a cut-and-paste. They disagree with the majority's report, and it's an illuminating read.

Perhaps most telling:

"How did the committee report get these things so wrong? Astonishingly, the staff avoided interviewing any of us who had been involved in establishing or running the program, the first time a supposedly comprehensive Senate Select Committee on Intelligence study has been carried out in this way."

Edit: I'll try the link to the main site, dunno if a paid subscription is required to view --

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cia-interrogations-saved-lives-1418142644



Colin Powell realizes he was used to drum up support for invading Iraq and his chief of staff Col. Wilkerson says "let me waterboard Rumsfeld and we will see if he thinks its not torture". The argument in '03-'04 was discussing whether or not the techniques used were indeed torture or not? Now the discussion has migrated to whether or not the torture provided actionable intelligence, justifying going to war with Iraq, which had already been decided.

http://youtu.be/E4_RQc9NLxQ
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1194
December 13th, 2014 at 1:18:39 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Colin Powell realizes he was used to drum up support for invading Iraq and his chief of staff Col. Wilkerson says "let me waterboard Rumsfeld and we will see if he thinks its not torture". The argument in '03-'04 was discussing whether or not the techniques used were indeed torture or not? Now the discussion has migrated to whether or not the torture provided actionable intelligence, justifying going to war with Iraq, which had already been decided.

http://youtu.be/E4_RQc9NLxQ



No to link Iraq with Al Queada.

Which was the main reason to go to Iraq, though it would be good to know.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
Twirdman
Twirdman
Joined: Jun 5, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1004
December 13th, 2014 at 1:28:09 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

No to link Iraq with Al Queada.

Which was the main reason to go to Iraq, though it would be good to know.



You didn't need torture to know Iraq wasn't linked with Al Qaeda since such a link fails every smell test. The chance of a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq was basically impossible given vast differences in ideology.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1194
December 13th, 2014 at 1:35:55 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

You didn't need torture to know Iraq wasn't linked with Al Qaeda since such a link fails every smell test. The chance of a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq was basically impossible given vast differences in ideology.



Sorry meant to say "was not the main reason".

Perhaps, though there is some evidence to the contrary. Certain officials made it into Iraq with Husseins approval.

But I agree, it is not important to dwell on at this point. It is done and if somebody is trying to justify the Iraq War there are far better reasons.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
Tanko
Tanko
Joined: Apr 22, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 967
December 13th, 2014 at 1:46:19 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

It may not survive the Senate, either of those riders. Let's hope it doesn't, or they get removed in reconciliation.



If the riders don't pass this year, the Republicans will certainly pass them next year.

Citigroup owns Washington.

Senator Warren is spot on in this speech:


  • Jump to: