RESOLVED - Bovada Trying To Rip Off My Winning Bet, Help?
Quote: ZugaFYI its Zuga
And FYI it is not uncommon for USA allowed casinos to send Canadian checks. And Bovada has their operations in Canada.
So no conspiracy there
As far as Romes and their friend. I am still waiting on more info regarding their bets. Please mind it was a weekend and the Rep was off.
However I just did have a quick skype meeting with them, and they will request more info from the bookmaker. Will see what they have to say and what kind of info they can reveal to me.
They did find strange indeed that Romes has been betting $1 for a while until they slammed that big bet.
Understandable over the weekend/etc Zuga, I'm just patiently waiting.
If/when you get more information back, I really do hope it's more than "Yeah we see this at X..." because the 3 reps and supervisor ALL spoke to the sports book and all 4 times they told the reps/me they didn't have the information about when the play started, which is why I know for a fact they can't consider my bet "past post." In the very definition of what a past post is (as explained to me by Bovada) you'd have to know when the play started to know that anything after it is past post. Basically, I hope they give you more information than "we're guessing it was X time, take our word for it" since they've already openly said numerous times they don't have/know that information.
I will reveal my bets if necessary (which they have complete access too). I bet $1, $10, $20, $50, and $100 multiple times. Not that I need to explain myself, but a lot of the sports betting I do is pure fun (other than MMA). If I'm losing bets, I'll martingale it a bit to make it back plus a little, then start over (RE:Martingale). I should think this is far from an uncommon betting "strategy."
Quote: teddysI haven't read all this thread, but I would like to reiterate I have had nothing but positive experiences with Bovada. I recently closed out my account and withdrew all funds, but I wouldn't hesitate to jump back in with them. Nothing but a top-notch operation in my estimation.
*not a paid endorser
lol I was a member for over 8 years playing poker, online casino, and sports book. Please actually read the thread before chiming in with an opinion that is invalid because you're not even discussing the topic at hand.
I can't remember receiving an american check from them within the last 5 years.
Quote: Zugathe main issue is whether the bet was placed on the stale lines or not. Bovada claims it was and Romes is asking for a proof. And I am waiting on more info.
And another issue is the betting pattern which raised some red flags and which may or may not be related to the betting on what Bovada claims was on the stale lines.
Is there a correlation between these two... don't know, but my understanding is that might be a possibility.
Well I give credit to ZUGA for continuing to follow-up on this. It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.
Another idea comes to mind..... What if Zuga opens up a new BOVADA account and then duplicates what Romes was betting, and see what happens ! Finally, something that would generate some data.
I believe Bovada should offer this option.... "We believe the bet in question was intentionally made past post, but since we cannot prove it, if you are still requesting payment we will pay you, but you will no longer be welcome at Bovada. Please let us know your decision."
The only way I could see Bovada 'fairly' not paying the bet is as follows..... On their website post the following.... Bets made on the following plays in game XXXXX versus YYYYY could not be verified if they were made on time or past post. Therefore ALL bets on those plays are considered 'no action', both the winners and losers. We are working to tighten our system to make sure NO bets are accepted past post ever again.....
Quote: SOOPOOTo me this is black and white. It is Bovada's responsibility to NOT accept a bet past post, it is not the bettor's responsibility to not make it.
I believe Bovada should offer this option.... "We believe the bet in question was intentionally made past post, but since we cannot prove it, if you are still requesting payment we will pay you, but you will no longer be welcome at Bovada. Please let us know your decision."
The only way I could see Bovada 'fairly' not paying the bet is as follows..... On their website post the following.... Bets made on the following plays in game XXXXX versus YYYYY could not be verified if they were made on time or past post. Therefore ALL bets on those plays are considered 'no action', both the winners and losers. We are working to tighten our system to make sure NO bets are accepted past post ever again.....
You are exactly right on all points. Both options are how companies with good customer service would handle it.
ZCore13
Quote: RomesUnderstandable over the weekend/etc Zuga, I'm just patiently waiting.
If/when you get more information back, I really do hope it's more than "Yeah we see this at X..." because the 3 reps and supervisor ALL spoke to the sports book and all 4 times they told the reps/me they didn't have the information about when the play started, which is why I know for a fact they can't consider my bet "past post." In the very definition of what a past post is (as explained to me by Bovada) you'd have to know when the play started to know that anything after it is past post. Basically, I hope they give you more information than "we're guessing it was X time, take our word for it" since they've already openly said numerous times they don't have/know that information.
I don't believe them on that, but I do believe that information is not available to the customer service reps, and to find out for sure timestamps, you need to dig into the database timestamps, or at least a level below what the CS team might have.
Personally, I would expect per-second timestamps on all actions made by a bettor, and that these would be available in the UI where people can review.
I would also expect ANY past post decision to be a refund to ALL bettors and for this to be posted clearly. If the casino doesn't want to take responsibility for accepting a bet then cancelling it due to a 'late close', then they shouldn't take bets where this can happen.
(wrong play - editted)
First bet cancelled
Cleveland Browns at 14:02
1-10-IND 38 (14:02) PENALTY on CLE-72-M.Schwartz, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 38 - No Play.
1-15-IND 43 (14:02) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short left to 12-J.Gordon (28-G.Toler).
2-15-IND 43 (13:58) 28-T.West left guard to IND 40 for 3 yards (52-D.Jackson). Pitch Out
Second bet cancelled
1-10-IND 24 (8:29) 12-A.Luck pass short middle to 13-T.Hilton to CLE 43 for 33 yards (23-J.Haden).
1-10-CLE 43 (7:42) 12-A.Luck pass incomplete deep middle to 87-R.Wayne.
2-10-CLE 43 (7:36) (Shotgun) 12-A.Luck pass incomplete short left to 80-C.Fleener [92-D.Bryant].
3-10-CLE 43 (7:31) 12-A.Luck sacked at IND 46 for -11 yards (30-J.Leonhard).
Quote: ZugaMy bad, the other bettor , the friend of Romes, had the strange betting pattern, which as I said may or may not be related to what Bovada claims was betting on the stale line.s
Earlier in this thread he stated he was testing how their system worked, since he'd never bet, nor live bet, with bovada before.
Quote: SOOPOOTo me this is black and white. It is Bovada's responsibility to NOT accept a bet past post, it is not the bettor's responsibility to not make it.
I believe Bovada should offer this option.... "We believe the bet in question was intentionally made past post, but since we cannot prove it, if you are still requesting payment we will pay you, but you will no longer be welcome at Bovada. Please let us know your decision."
The only way I could see Bovada 'fairly' not paying the bet is as follows..... On their website post the following.... Bets made on the following plays in game XXXXX versus YYYYY could not be verified if they were made on time or past post. Therefore ALL bets on those plays are considered 'no action', both the winners and losers. We are working to tighten our system to make sure NO bets are accepted past post ever again.....
Couldn't agree more... Although the only thing I would want added is a list of how many, or people, that were refunded. Like I said I've never gotten a message and refunded money I've bet and loss. It apparently only 'effects' winners =).
Quote: RomesQuote: teddysI haven't read all this thread, but I would like to reiterate I have had nothing but positive experiences with Bovada. I recently closed out my account and withdrew all funds, but I wouldn't hesitate to jump back in with them. Nothing but a top-notch operation in my estimation.
*not a paid endorser
lol I was a member for over 8 years playing poker, online casino, and sports book. Please actually read the thread before chiming in with an opinion that is invalid because you're not even discussing the topic at hand.
I'll stay out of the discussion from here on . . .
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Well done and exactly how it should have been handles, although a little faster. They either need to invest in some technology to help them pinpoint play start times or bite the bullet when one of their employees screws up.
ZCore13
But about the side issue of the check his bank had issues about. Given the US legal environment for these transactions after 2006, I've assumed that simply issuing an ordinary check which is drawn on a US bank to US players is not an option for withdrawals from any offshore gambling site in recent years. Does anyone have a different understanding of that, or a recent contrary experience getting paid that way?
Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Glad to hear this had a happy ending. Even before hearing this, I trust that Bovada would have cancelled bets on both sides past wherever they drew the line when the play started.
BTW, Vegas casinos retain the right to retroactively cancel a bet if the line was obviously in error. I've never heard of it actually happening though.
Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
ZUGA is th Grinch who stole Christmas from the cry babies. Evidently APPROVED does mean just that.
Buzzard must be so disappointed .
Zuga is the MAN :-)
Quote: aladyat42Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
ZUGA is th Grinch who stole Christmas from the cry babies. Evidently APPROVED does mean just that.
Buzzard must be so disappointed .
Why use the insult "cry babies"
OP had a valid issue, Zuga the MAN looked into the valid issue and solved the issue.
No reason to insult people that post on this thread with the term "cry babies"
Quote: WizardQuote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Glad to hear this had a happy ending. Even before hearing this, I trust that Bovada would have cancelled bets on both sides past wherever they drew the line when the play started.
BTW, Vegas casinos retain the right to retroactively cancel a bet if the line was obviously in error. I've never heard of it actually happening though.
I would not call this a happy ending.
It takes 17 pages of adverse publicity before the online casino cave in.
Being a guest on this forum prevents me from saying anything more.
I don't know but I got a chuckle out of it.Quote: terapinedQuote: aladyat42Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
ZUGA is th Grinch who stole Christmas from the cry babies. Evidently APPROVED does mean just that.
Buzzard must be so disappointed .
Why use the insult "cry babies"
OP had a valid issue, Zuga the MAN looked into the valid issue and solved the issue.
No reason to insult people that post on this thread with the term "cry babies"
Really, only 17 pages and in a fairly timely manner.Quote: Deck007Quote: WizardQuote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Glad to hear this had a happy ending. Even before hearing this, I trust that Bovada would have cancelled bets on both sides past wherever they drew the line when the play started.
BTW, Vegas casinos retain the right to retroactively cancel a bet if the line was obviously in error. I've never heard of it actually happening though.
I would not call this a happy ending.
It takes 17 pages of adverse publicity before the online casino cave in.
Being a guest on this forum prevents me from saying anything more.
We have had cases with Vegas casinos that took over a year to resolve with many hoops to jump through and had to pay an attorney.
PS. Now Imagine if this site was not available for us to complain. (REAL CASINOS F PEOPLE TO)
He didn't even use this site to get an account, but he was still helped. They could have told him to go pound sand.
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: Deck007Quote: WizardQuote: ZugaAn UPDATE
Really, only 17 pages and in a fairly timely manner.
We have had cases with Vegas casinos that took over a year to resolve with many hoops to jump through and had to pay an attorney.
I don't understand this.
You lodge a complain with the Nevada Gaming Commission.
If you have a valid claim they would act on your behalf.
If you don't then it would be a frivolous claim and you can spend as much money on the lawyer as you want.
Quote: aladyat42I apologize for the cry baby remark. But I still think Buzzard is disappointed.
Speaking of which, how are you Charles?
Quote: aladyat42I apologize for the cry baby remark. But I still think Buzzard is disappointed.
1st Zuga impresses me.
Now aladyat42, which I have been watching with suspicion, just impressed me.
Whats going on here?
:-)
and seems to be nice enough.
How could it be charlie? ;)
Quote: BeardgoatSpeaking of which, how are you Charles?
Charles?!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/19426-wov-picks-game-2014-discussion-thread/33/#post408452
Quote: Buzzard" Why are VCUSkyhawk and Buzzard still on the leaderboard? "
Why not ? I am paying up. Maybe it will remind the crybabies I had a good ( not Great ) chance of winning before I quit to shut up
the whiners who thought I gained an edge by posting at 1 minutes after the deadline and 13 hours before kickoff.
LOSERS !
Surely cry babies and buzzard don't have anything to do with each other?!
IMO B9 wast the best detective on the forum.Quote: aladyat42Funny how you overlooked terrapin, az duffman and many others who used crybaby in a post. Stop being a detective and keep your day job. LOL
Quote: ZugaAn UPDATE
The Rep indicated that the issues have been resolved and the cancellation reversed. Both players can contact customer service if they want to pull those funds out.
Wow, I genuinely did not think this was going to be your next post! Thank you for your continued help, and I'm glad Bovada finally decided to do the right thing. I will be calling customer service first thing tomorrow morning to confirm everything from my end.
I really do appreciate your help, and your rep's help, Zuga. I was turned away and had no other outlets. It's nice to see that indeed the claims to fight for the player are true.
THANK YOU
Quote: Deck007I would not call this a happy ending.
It takes 17 pages of adverse publicity before the online casino cave in.
Yeah, even poisons prove medicinal on occasion.
It's like the historically accepted take on written and spoken language. The first pictograph/word was wheat or barley. People were trying to buy and sell it.
Wasn't about recording history, scientific observation, practical words of wisdom, or even about what Moses was about to say to God.
Quote: Deck007Being a guest on this forum prevents me from saying anything more.
Merry Christmas!
And the same to Bill Cosby, wherever you are.
Quote: MoscaVERY impressive, Zuga. I know how hard that behind the scenes stuff can be, it once took me almost a year to get something similar for a customer in my line of work. you are a stand up guy.
Zuga may be a standup guy, but more so in this sense he was the voice of reason and common sense. My uneducated guess is that he explained to them how much damage they were doing to his bosses investment here, Bovada's reputation here and on the web and they made a business decision. Perhaps Zuga and crew even made the deal to pay 1/2 or all the money.
I see nothing from this outcome that would make me trust Bovada anymore than in the past and perhaps even less as it took this much for them to make a common sense decision. Yes, these things can also happen at a land based casino, but what did anyone see from Bovada that would make them more likely to play there unless they had a nice advantage play to risk trusting them?
Zuga may be the good guy here, but I see him as having common sense and working to protect an investment, which was an easy decision to make happen.
Quote: wudgedQuote: Buzzard" Why are VCUSkyhawk and Buzzard still on the leaderboard? "
Why not ? I am paying up. Maybe it will remind the crybabies I had a good ( not Great ) chance of winning before I quit to shut up
the whiners who thought I gained an edge by posting at 1 minutes after the deadline and 13 hours before kickoff.
LOSERS !
Surely cry babies and buzzard don't have anything to do with each other?!
If you read their profiles, the only thing those two have in common is Colorado.
I helped because that is what we do, and because it was the right thing to do.
We at LCB are known in this industry as the player advocates. We do feel, since we are in the business of promoting the online casinos, that our job is to look after the interest of our players, and not just our players but anyone who brings a complaint to us against xyw casino(s).
We actually endorse posting public complaints ( as long as they are legit ) as it helps to educate the players and the rest of the readers. This way we endorse the transparency and it is why we have over 170 registered Reps at LCB and a designated Direct Casino Support forum section for general questions and inquiries, complaints, issues etc : http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/onlinecasinobonusforum/direct-casino-support/
Granted that the most of the correspondence happens behind the scene, between the complainant, us and the "offending site" ( and I use this term loosely as they might not be in offence ). But the end result is always known, unless the complaint was abandoned due to inactivity of the submitter.
Now in regards to why it took this much time to resolve this specific case... well sometimes these things can take time, for various reasons.
But I think the important thing I need to explain here is that most of our contacts are not the casino/sportsbook managers. They are mostly the affiliate managers, so that might prolong the time for resolving the complaint, as they are in direct communication with the ppl from casino/sportsbook. Granted they are usually within the same company but in separate departments. But still it takes an extra time, email or a phone call.
But lets be honest here, if you are say to hire a lawyer and sue whom ever at the court of law. Or if you are to get the service of some mediation agency for what ever reason.... How long it would take them to resolve what ever grievance you have?
EDIT:
Updated topic to Resolved
cheers
Zuga
Quote: ZugaI want to make one thing clear. I did not assist the OP/their friend because of the bad PR and heat on Bovada or because it would affect the business model that my biz partners and me have here.
I helped because that is what we do, and because it was the right thing to do.
We at LCB are known in this industry as the player advocates. We do feel, since we are in the business of promoting the online casinos, that our job is to look after the interest of our players, and not just our players but anyone who brings a complaint to us against xyw casino(s).
We actually endorse posting public complaints ( as long as they are legit ) as it helps to educate the players and the rest of the readers. This way we endorse the transparency and it is why we have over 170 registered Reps at LCB and a designated Direct Casino Support forum section for general questions and inquiries, complaints, issues etc : http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/onlinecasinobonusforum/direct-casino-support/
Granted that the most of the correspondence happens behind the scene, between the complainant, us and the "offending site" ( and I use this term loosely as they might not be in offence ). But the end result is always known, unless the complaint was abandoned due to inactivity of the submitter.
Now in regards to why it took this much time to resolve this specific case... well sometimes these things can take time, for various reasons.
But I think the important thing I need to explain here is that most of our contacts are not the casino/sportsbook managers. They are mostly the affiliate managers, so that might prolong the time for resolving the complaint, as they are in direct communication with the ppl from casino/sportsbook. Granted they are usually within the same company but in separate departments. But still it takes an extra time, email or a phone call.
But lets be honest here, if you are say to hire a lawyer and sue whom ever at the court of law. Or if you are to get the service of some mediation agency for what ever reason.... How long it would take them to resolve what ever grievance you have?
EDIT:
Updated topic to Resolved
cheers
Zuga
With your permission I would like to make the following comments if I may.
Almost all that you said amounts to an attempt to mount to a good PR exercise or Spin after so much negative publicity.
The easy case in point is changing the title of this thread to "Resolved..................."
This change you made would negate all else that you posted.
Apart from your lengthy posting the one sentence that stands out to me is this
"I helped because that is what we do, and because it was the right thing to do."
This is a "Holier than Thou" statement and has been used many times elsewhere.
I don't want to overstay my welcome.
You are in this business to make money and it is a difficult business with many controversy.
Quote: Zuga
cheers
Zuga
I have no dog in this fight, but I still want to say thank you to Zuga.
For those that are still unhappy with Zuga, well,
No good deed goes unpunished!
Quote: ZugaI want to make one thing clear. I did not assist the OP/their friend because of the bad PR and heat on Bovada or because it would affect the business model that my biz partners and me have here.
I helped because that is what we do, and because it was the right thing to do.
We at LCB are known in this industry as the player advocates. We do feel, since we are in the business of promoting the online casinos, that our job is to look after the interest of our players, and not just our players but anyone who brings a complaint to us against xyw casino(s).
We actually endorse posting public complaints ( as long as they are legit ) as it helps to educate the players and the rest of the readers. This way we endorse the transparency and it is why we have over 170 registered Reps at LCB and a designated Direct Casino Support forum section for general questions and inquiries, complaints, issues etc : http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/onlinecasinobonusforum/direct-casino-support/
Granted that the most of the correspondence happens behind the scene, between the complainant, us and the "offending site" ( and I use this term loosely as they might not be in offence ). But the end result is always known, unless the complaint was abandoned due to inactivity of the submitter.
Now in regards to why it took this much time to resolve this specific case... well sometimes these things can take time, for various reasons.
But I think the important thing I need to explain here is that most of our contacts are not the casino/sportsbook managers. They are mostly the affiliate managers, so that might prolong the time for resolving the complaint, as they are in direct communication with the ppl from casino/sportsbook. Granted they are usually within the same company but in separate departments. But still it takes an extra time, email or a phone call.
But lets be honest here, if you are say to hire a lawyer and sue whom ever at the court of law. Or if you are to get the service of some mediation agency for what ever reason.... How long it would take them to resolve what ever grievance you have?
EDIT:
Updated topic to Resolved
cheers
Zuga
Kind of hard to sue companies hiding in 3rd world countries doing illegal US banking transactions with customers willing to possibly break such laws. So the comparison a legal US Court of Law is not a good example, but a noble attempt. As they say, you pay your money you take your chances. After all people have been arrested for calling the police after saying they were ripped off in a drug deal.
http://www.21alive.com/news/state/137290163.html
That said nothing happened her that would give anyone any new reason to bet with Bovada or any of your other promoted casinos. In this case they made good on something that should have never been an issue. It should have never taken this long or you to get involved for the correct result. Romes spent far too much time on the phone and email trying to get answers that were not given by Bovada. Perhaps you received an answer on what happened or perhaps they just paid him. But again nothing Romes posted showed that he did anything to "rig" their system. He placed a wager, it was accepted and then it was denied. Tells you a lot about Bovada.
I do believe the people who bet online are either sharps who think or know they have an edge and are willing to risk possibly being ripped off (1%), or just others who dont care and want the action. Again I dont have a problem with what you do, but to say it is a legitimate legal business in the US is total bullshit and to compare the legal process to it is an insult to anyone with an IQ above 50, and I think on that we all can agree.
Quote: Deck007
With your permission I would like to make the following comments if I may.
Almost all that you said amounts to an attempt to mount to a good PR exercise or Spin after so much negative publicity.
The easy case in point is changing the title of this thread to "Resolved..................."
Apart from your lengthy posting the one sentence that stands out to me is this
"I helped because that is what we do, and because it was the right thing to do."
This is a "Holier than Thou" statement and has been used many times elsewhere.
Gezuzzz some of you guys just love to bitch and are never happy. And always see things through a negative prism.
Seriously now, you are now bothered by the "resolved" ?? You do realize that the title still says "rip off" , and that such title no longer reflects the nature of the now closed case?
How come you are not bothered by that wording? Or you are still claiming that Bovada ripped them off>?
Seriously now....
Quote: Deck007
I don't want to overstay my welcome.
Really getting tired of these self righteousness statements. This is getting really stale now...
Noone is forcing you to stay and noone is forcing you to leave.
But Ill say this, If you really feel this way then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Quote: ZugaGezuzzz some of you guys just love to bitch and are never happy. And always see things through a negative prism.
Seriously now, you are now bothered by the "resolved" ?? You do realize that the title still says "rip off" , and that such title no longer reflects the nature of the now closed case?
How come you are not bother by that wording? Or you are still claiming that Bovada ripped them off>?
Seriously now....
Really getting tired of these self righteousness statements. This is getting really stale now...
Noone is forcing you to stay and noone is forcing you to leave.
But Ill say this, If you really feel this way then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You are the Boss here and you have the last word on this.
Quote: Deck007You are the Boss here and you have the last word on this.
Why not state what you feel? He is the boss, but it is also still an open forum. If you are afraid of being banned, then by all means keep your opinions to yourself.
Mike always said the same thing about leaving if you dont like it, yet somehow Mike had earned the respect he had from posters and it showed when he asked for help when he felt he needed it. How many would donate to Zuga? Hands Up. I seriously doubt he needs our donations, so its a retorical question. Besides not sure how we could legally get him the money? But I guess there ways around anything if you try and are willing to be billed for Office Supplies from China.
I have nothing against Zuga and dont really care if he thinks I or anyone else is self righteous. He has my respect in that he and his crew have found a way to make lots of money off saps. No different than Steve Wynn. Well except Steve pays some US taxes and creates jobs in this country, but thats a minor difference. Patriotism be damned! Besides we need more good guys like Zuga out there fighting for the rights of gamblers that may have been mistreated by an online casino. In fact, if your online casino of choice loses too much and decides to just lock the doors (figuratively) and reopen under a new name, Zuga and crew will work to get your money back. If fact they may even pay it out of their pocket because they are just downright good people and not just because it is Christmas.
But on the entire Bovada and Romes situation, it is my opinion and only my opinion that Bovada were total assholes here and would have screwed Romes if not for the pressure put on them by Zuga and crew. Anyone who understands anything about business knows they felt he took advantage of a situation THEY created and they were going to punish him for it. They dont give a damn about Customer Service or how they wuld look because they dont care. He is just another sap and 100 more will be next through the door with promises of 1000% rebates and more. It took Zuga to make them understand that they needed to treat this case differently and perhaps fix their system. Zuga can deny it and I MAY be wrong, but it sure looks that way.
The alternative is that they are so thorough in their complaint review department that they are willing to spend days and perhaps weeks of man labor hours ensuring that a customers bet was properly handled regardless of the cost on their end because their reputation means so much to them and this would have been happily resolved in Romes favor if he was just a little more patient. In fact they probably wanted to go back over all their records and ensure that EVERYONE and ANYONE that this ever happened to in their history was made whole. Because they are just that kind of good people. You just dont meet good people like that everyday and Romes should consider himself lucky to have brought this to their attention and allowed them to make right with everyone,
I do wonder if everyone else who had their bets cancelled and are now being paid? Somehow I like my chances betting against that having happened. But hey, like everyone, I have been wrong plenty of times before as I sometimes forgot how good many people are out there when it comes to doing the right thing.
In terms of Player Advocation, in my view, LatestCasinoBonuses.Com is essentially something of a cross between an attorney for players and the Better Business Bureau, unlike the BBB, however, they can often successfully effectuate positive results for the wronged party. Oh, and LCB.com is not a puppet, which is precisely what the BBB is.
Anyway, it is because LCB.com is a huge affiliate site for on-line casinos that such results can be effectuated, not in spite of it. There are essentially two types of on-line casinos:
A.)There are those who want player business long-term because they know they have the edge on most (if not all) of their offerings, so they seek to keep a good public image, and I don't think I'd be overstepping to say that LCB.com is a significant contributor to the public image an online casino has in terms of fairness.
B.) The second type of on-line casino is the type that slow pays, no pays, or has ambiguous T&C's (or ones that basically can be summarized as, "We win, you lose.") or otherwise directly rips people off. LCB.com may not always be able to successfully resolve player issues with these casinos because these are fly-by-night casinos who really don't give a sweet **** what their public image is because their objective is just to rip off as many people as they can before all the business dries up...at least, in my view.
Anyway, I think Bovada at least demonstrated that they are the first type of casino and that they are concerned with their public image.
That's exactly why LCB gets involved, because you have two parties and both parties have their own perspective on the situation. Party A says, "I made a bet, you accepted, I won, pay me," while Party B says, "We think that you past-posted on us, though we admit to having the bets still available on-line, your betting pattern was also suspicious, so we don't think we should pay that bet."
Anyway, as a player advocate and an on-line casino affiliate, LCB steps in as a third-party and tries to figure out exactly what happened and tries to arbitrate (neutrally) which party is in the right and which party is in the wrong. To wit, there are cases (and are going to be cases) where LCB.com might side with the casino in terms of there being a clear violation of non-ambiguous T&C's.
With respect to the on-line casino player, it's a good thing that LCB.com (and others) does exist because absolutely NO OTHER ENTITY REMOTELY CARES what on-line casinos do or don't do or who they rip off. Is there anyone who thinks a news agency of any kind is going to pick up the story? Can you call your Congressman and complain about being ripped off? No, your Congressman himself probably labors under the misimpression that on-line gambling is in and of itself illegal.
Thus, LCB.com comes in and they look at the situation from a third-party standpoint, and they say, "In our estimation, this player was wronged as you accepted the bet and you should pay it, otherwise, there may be repercussions in terms of your standing with us."
That said, I do agree that this is something of a black eye for Bovada, at least, as relates their handling of live sports betting. I don't recall ever hearing anyone have any problem with any other aspect of the Bovada operation, and Members even at this website, such as TeddyS and AxelWolf have stated that they've had no problems with them.
Either way, this thread remains open for all to read and will continue to do so and then every individual can make his/her own decision as to whether or not he/she wants to gamble at Boavda. There's no question that the issue is resolved, though, so there is nothing inappropriate about the subject stating that the issue is RESOLVED. The complaint was Bovada was not paying on a wager that they booked, Bovada is now paying on a wager that they booked, and that's pretty much what the definition of a resolution is.
Quote: BozI seriously doubt he needs our donations, so its a retorical question.
Paypal?
Quote:But on the entire Bovada and Romes situation, it is my opinion and only my opinion that Bovada were total assholes here and would have screwed Romes if not for the pressure put on them by Zuga and crew. Anyone who understands anything about business knows they felt he took advantage of a situation THEY created and they were going to punish him for it. They dont give a damn about Customer Service or how they wuld look because they dont care. He is just another sap and 100 more will be next through the door with promises of 1000% rebates and more. It took Zuga to make them understand that they needed to treat this case differently and perhaps fix their system. Zuga can deny it and I MAY be wrong, but it sure looks that way.
I don't even know that I necessarily disagree with you in this regard, but we seem to have differing perspectives as to whether or not that makes LCB.com a good player-advocate and resource. I think it makes them an excellent resource, and, quite frankly, a necessary resource. It's as close as someone can get to having free legal counsel: If you get ripped off by a business that falls under the jurisdiction of some kind of Court, then you have to hire an attorney and you end up paying said attorney generally on a contingency fee basis (as the Plaintiff) and they get you that to which you are entitled, except they get around 30% of that money. In this case, LCB.com is the advocate for the players and they do not work on a contingency fee basis, they compel the casino to pay the player and the casino pays the player. If the casino does not, then they will face repercussion in the court of public opinion.
Anyway, I think they do give a d*** how that looks, which is precisely why Zuga was able to achieve the desired resolution, which was Bovada paying the player. I don't know what the possible repercussions would have been, but I'm sure that they wish to retain their excellent standing with the LCB.com family of websites. Might they not give a d*** about doing the right thing were it not for the risks to their public image and perception of potential new players, I have no way of knowing, but appreciate the possibility that they might not.
Quote: Mission146I'm confused as to why anyone has an issue with Zuga's procedure in all of this, to be quite honest.
Agreed, and like Soopoo said, even though I also have no dog in the fight, THANKS to ZUGA.
Quote: Mission146
That said, I do agree that this is something of a black eye for Bovada, at least, as relates their handling of live sports betting.
Also Agreed, but certainly less of a black eye than if they didn't step up and resolve this.
Happy Holidays everyone.
I have zero issues with putting RESOLVED in front of the thread title, because it is in fact resolved (so long as for some reason in the next 14 days the funds don't disappear from my account - but then I'll be sure to let everyone know).
I also don't think this was 'dragged out.' This was exactly what I expected, or even slightly faster than expected. Having been a member of a LOT of online sites for nearly a decade I understand that things move slowly... An e-mail here (24 hours to process), a phone call there (24 hours to process), the weekend, etc. I feel like from the time Zuga got involved, this issue had a turn around time quicker than I personally expected.
Once again, thank you Zuga.
Exactly the reason I avoided this thread ... until the title changed to say "Resolved." I suspected it would be nothing but a bitch session. And I didn't like the idea of publicly bitching at one of the longest advertisers here.Quote: ZugaGezuzzz some of you guys just love to bitch and are never happy.
Good to see it was resolved.
