RESOLVED - Bovada Trying To Rip Off My Winning Bet, Help?
Quote: aladyat42But Mickey, Bovada is an Approved Casino........ You must be mistaken or inebriated.
Havent had a driink in 2 weeks. Lets say they did get hit by past posters on that line. That does not justify cancelling the winning bets of those who posted in a timely manner. And its clear, by the answer they gave Romes, that they dont know whether he past posted or not. Which means that out of everyone who bet that line they have no idea who posted timely and who didnt. So they cancelled all the winning bets. This is absolutely a cheat move. And did they cancel the losing bets? Oh, wait! The losers couldnt have past posted or they would have been on the rigjt side of the bet. So those are legitimate bets. Cha Ching!
Pre 2003 people thought you're absolutely nuts if you told them that you can make money in land based casinos and gambling. the Travel Channel and popular movies such as 21 change that. it's now the same thing with online gambling.Quote: Zcore13Just switch to "Las Vegas USA" at the bottom of the site here. Now offering an $11,000 sign up bonus!! Sounds totally fair and honest to me. Good luck! :)
ZCore13
with all due respect Z , I understand that you're down on internet gambling.
in the past people have made extraordinary amounts of money online .everybody says, well that was in the past and this is now, that's all over. sure there's some bullshit going on online, but even Las Vegas has had that type of situation, far less likely yes, but there also far less casinos in Nevada. not to mention not everybody can get to Las Vegas.
my gripe is that people are chiming in, regarding online gambling , people that have almost no experience online and don't know enough(just what they hear, they're just assuming everything). they hear all kinds of stories some true, and some are just bandwagon hysteria.
from this point on what will you say when people tell you how much money they made five years down the road from online gambling.
I'm not saying people should 100%. Trust,I'm just saying people are very foolish to automatically assume
Quote: AxelWolf... my gripe is that people are chiming in, regarding online gambling , people that have almost no experience online and don't know enough(just what they hear, they're just assuming everything). they hear all kinds of stories some true, and some are just bandwagon hysteria.
I've played on JetSet, Bodog/Bovada, Full Tilt, Pacific, Party, Ultimate, Cardroom, InterPoker, and 4 more than I can literally remember the interface but not the names. This is all since about 2004, so nearly a decade of online gambling. My honest opinion: Every single site I've played/bet on has made it super easy to get money on the site, place bets, and hassle the hell out of you to get it off / resolve "big" (anything over $1k) winning bets.
Shit, my first Bovada cash out... I requested it, 2 days later it got denied (no reasoning or anything). I had to call up to find out why, then they said they didn't have proof of identification for me, so I had to scan my drivers licence in to them. Done that day... another 2 days later cash out was denied. Called back up and they told me I had to prove my address they were sending the check to with a current utility bill. Scanned, blocked out personal information, and send that. 2 days later (they took up to 48 hours to process any request) they told me it was approved and that I could expect my check within 10 business days... and indeed I got it another 2 weeks after that. It should be noted that I fought them over these things saying wtf you'll let me put money on your site and play without knowing who I am, but you're going to start demanding it when I want to get my money back? They, even a decade ago, terms of serviced me to the point where I had to comply because they were holding thousands of my dollars hostage. This is the unprofessional crap that EVERY online casino does that makes ALL online casino's shady.
EVERY online casino I've experienced (and I've experienced a lot) is like this. They hassle you over anything that isn't putting more money on their site (a winning bet, cashing money out, etc). The hysteria that follows online casino's, in my opinion is 100% legit, because the online casino's ALL act shady as hell. It's because of this non-professional attitude/actions (cashing out is hard, they terms of service all disputes in their favor, etc) that the hysteria exists.
Quote: AxelWolf
from this point on what will you say when people tell you how much money they made five years down the road from online gambling.
I'm not saying people should 100%. Trust,I'm just saying people are very foolish to automatically assume
In all of my experience, I've never known anyone but myself, and about 4 of my friends that have made money online, playing poker. I've never heard of anyone making money doing anything else in my decade of online gambling across 12 different online casino's.
Quote: mickeycrimm... And its clear, by the answer they gave Romes, that they dont know whether he past posted or not. Which means that out of everyone who bet that line they have no idea who posted timely and who didnt. So they cancelled all the winning bets. This is absolutely a cheat move. And did they cancel the losing bets? Oh, wait! The losers couldnt have past posted or they would have been on the rigjt side of the bet. So those are legitimate bets. Cha Ching!
Exactly, on both points. Just remember this is what you get with Bovada. I don't think it should be a Wiz Approved / OCB Approved anymore, and this would be an obvious case as to why.
Quote: RomesI've never heard of anyone making money doing anything else in my decade of online gambling across 12 different online casino's.
Millions were made another way according to an almost unimpeachable source. Just saying. I have to ask, if millions were not lost too, and was it a matter of luck or was it sometimes +EV? If the latter, almost unimaginable stupidity to me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19586-latest-casino-bonuses-web-site/#post397495
Quote: odiousgambitQuote: RomesI've never heard of anyone making money doing anything else in my decade of online gambling across 12 different online casino's.
Millions were made another way according to an almost unimpeachable source. Just saying. I have to ask, if millions were not lost too, and was it a matter of luck or was it sometimes +EV? If the latter, almost unimaginable stupidity to me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19586-latest-casino-bonuses-web-site/#post397495
I made money bonus whoring... Pacific Poker (888) had a "refer a friend" and get $100 (instantly in your account, not play to release). This was when I was in college, living in a dorm full of guys that played poker twice a week. I went and told all of them about it, and how I'd give them a free $20 if they signed up and deposited $20. I got about 10 people to sign up and made about a grand in a few days. All of the other people whom essentially got a free $20 deposit, played and lost their $20.
Bonus whoring is only profitable to the AP. Again, myself and my 3-4 AP friends were the only one's I knew that actually made money. Non-AP's just use that to pump their account up a little before they inevitably dump it all off making some very poor play. My prior statement about not knowing anyone else who's won money online was directed mostly at non-AP's (although it's still 100% true for my case - I didn't know anyone else that ever made money online).
reminds me of every other casino in the worldQuote: RomesNon-AP's just use that to pump their account up a little before they inevitably dump it all off making some very poor play..
Quote: AxelWolfreminds me of every other casino in the world
Quite right... Except if I go to a sports book in a real casino, place a bet, have it accepted, and it wins... I bet you I'll get paid =).
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/apr/14/jeff-haney-just-cant-seem-get-fair-shake-harrahs-s/
Quote: strictlyAPI could be wrong, but I think there have been there have been times that bets have been voided in nevada, here is one that comes to mind
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/apr/14/jeff-haney-just-cant-seem-get-fair-shake-harrahs-s/
What sounds strange to me in this scenario is that the author said he examined the tickets and then paid his money. Then the supervisor took the tickets back from the clerk. I don't bet a whole lot of sports in the sportsbooks, but I always take the tickets to examine them. I have never had a clerk hold the tickets while I examined them.
Mostly true. but will you find as much value? Sometimes its more convenient online. Theres often time better lines, bonuses and more selections.Quote: RomesQuite right... Except if I go to a sports book in a real casino, place a bet, have it accepted, and it wins... I bet you I'll get paid =).
Online sports books have been a god sent to professional sports bettors.
OBVIOUSLY you thought you had a value bet, sure theres no value if they rip you off (I suspect over all your ahead using this system?)
I'm mot defending them and what happened, I would like for them to prove that you did in fact past post, and that ALL of the bets win or lose were refunded.
Im a bit concerned Zuga hasn't really said much Regarding this. A simple bovada statement isn't going to fly. You may not be one of his affiliate link clickers, but it's not as if you ran to this site and signed up Just for help after the fact and started complaining.
Your a Long time BV/BD member and your a valued WOV Member since: Jul 22, 2014 with
396 Posts.
This is different than accepting a bet and then voiding it after a loss. IMO the standard for them to not pay an accepted bet should be very high. I am sure it happens in regulated physical casinos in cases where someone is caught actually cheating, but otherwise they pay winning bets. If they think something fishy may be going on they may 86 you after they pay, but they will pay.
Quote: AxelWolfMostly true. but will you find as much value? Sometimes its more convenient online. Theres often time better lines, bonuses and more selections.
Online sports books have been a god sent to professional sports bettors.
OBVIOUSLY you thought you had a value bet, sure theres no value if they rip you off (I suspect over all your ahead using this system?)
I'm mot defending them and what happened, I would like for them to prove that you did in fact past post, and that ALL of the bets win or lose were refunded.
Im a bit concerned Zuga hasn't really said much Regarding this. A simple bovada statement isn't going to fly. You may not be one of his affiliate link clickers, but it's not as if you ran to this site and signed up Just for help after the fact and started complaining.
Your a Long time BV/BD member and your a valued WOV Member since: Jul 22, 2014 with
396 Posts.
It's a conflict of interest. Zuga can't bite the hand that feeds him. He can't pursue and tell them what a bad decision it is and that it is THEIR responsibility to pay booked wagers unless THEY can show proof it was booked late.
That's the problem with online Casinos. You have absolutely no where to go when you are wronged.
ZCore13
I am here and I have not forgotten about this topic.
I have not posted back as I asked for more detail from the Rep.
However I am 100% confident that Bovada would not "cheat" ( as some of you pointed out ) players for few hundred bucks ( not that they would cheat them for much more or ever ), and risk damaging their good reputation.
This is not about stiffing the players ( btw Bovada has an impeccable record for paying players ) , it is about whether the bet(s) was placed before or after the outcome was known.
Bovada claims that both players did bet on stale lines, intentionally or not, hence breaking their T&Cs.
Once I get an update I will post back.
Quote: Zuga
This is not about stiffing the players ( btw Bovada has an impeccable record for paying players ), it is about whether the bet(s) was placed before or after the outcome was known.
OK, fair enough. But it also seems abundantly clear that Bovada does not have any internal controls to know whether Romes placed his bet after becoming aware of the outcome of the play. A little hard to imagine if you are in the live on-line gambling business. They have had PLENTY of time to share their proof if they had any.
So to sum up the 12 pages of this thread, Bovada has a THEORY and therefore they are going to stiff Romes.
I am disappointed that they may be ruining YOUR business model with THEIR conduct.
This is ludicrous, an utterly ridiculous fantasy. Doesn't work like that. Online betting is not anonymous to those booking the bet; it can only be done through an advance deposit account, rather than by an anonymous "Joe" or "Josephine" with cash at a window, obviously. Someone who is consistently winning at house banked sports wagers is not going to continue to have an account and have their wagers accepted indefinitely, if it is for significant amounts involving fixed-odds wagers against the house.Quote:Online sports books have been a god sent to professional sports bettors.
This is equally true of the advance deposit account wagering affiliated with brick and mortar Nevada casinos such as Cantor, William Hill, SouthPoint, Station Casinos, and Boyd Gaming with their "online" options via computer on the the web and phone or tablet apps. It would also be true if a "pro" was dumb enough to use their player card whenever they went to the window at brick & mortar casino books. Any online or other form of account betting means they know exactly what your action is in your account and what your results are, in most cases better than you do. If one is actually a consistent winner for such significant amounts that could conceivably be considered "a pro" without causing laughter by everyone besides them and maybe their mom, it won't be allowed to go on that way, either the account will be closed and/or wagers will simply not continue to be accepted, or that individual's wager size will be limited to trivial amounts. They do that all the time. They are not obliged to take anyone's action any more than you are required to bet with them.
And there is nothing wrong with that in any legal or ethical sense, books are not private charities for a few (VERY few) sharps who are in the business of cherry-picking the lines, nor is there any reason to ever expect they should be. Someone who is consistently winning for significant amounts involving house banked wagers (wagers that mean winning the casino's money rather than betting against other players to win THEIR money) necessarily does so at a window (or more likely many windows at different venues for the same wager), with cash in exchange for a paper ticket, anonymously. Someone who sincerely believes they are a clear winner for large amounts over a significant time period through account wagering is flat out delusional, which I'll grant you is a pretty common condition among gambling degenerates.
And yes, I do understand that's something quite different than the main issue the OP raised in this thread, involving his wager which he says WAS accepted, and then cancelled.
Sorry but you have no clue what you're talking about as to how much professional sports bettors have made online and do it consistently evry year. They have multiple places to make wagers they have many different systems that work. If you're not convinced im sure if you put up 10k they can show you casino account records. If you're interested in a lare wager escrow it and lets make the terms.Quote: DrawingDeadThis is ludicrous, an utterly ridiculous fantasy. Doesn't work like that. Online betting is not anonymous to those booking the bet; it can only be done through an advance deposit account, rather than by an anonymous "Joe" or "Josephine" with cash at a window, obviously. Someone who is consistently winning at house banked sports wagers is not going to continue to have an account and have their wagers accepted indefinitely, if it is for significant amounts involving fixed-odds wagers against the house.
This is equally true of the advance deposit account wagering affiliated with brick and mortar Nevada casinos such as Cantor, William Hill, SouthPoint, Station Casinos, and Boyd Gaming with their "online" options via computer on the the web and phone or tablet apps. It would also be true if a "pro" was dumb enough to use their player card whenever they went to the window at brick & mortar casino books. Any online or other form of account betting means they know exactly what your action is in your account and what your results are, in most cases better than you do. If one is actually a consistent winner for such significant amounts that could conceivably be considered "a pro" without causing laughter by everyone besides them and maybe their mom, it won't be allowed to go on that way, either the account will be closed and/or wagers will simply not continue to be accepted, or that individual's wager size will be limited to trivial amounts. They do that all the time. They are not obliged to take anyone's action any more than you are required to bet with them.
And there is nothing wrong with that in any legal or ethical sense, books are not private charities for a few (VERY few) sharps who are in the business of cherry-picking the lines, nor is there any reason to ever expect they should be. Someone who is consistently winning for significant amounts involving house banked wagers (wagers that mean winning the casino's money rather than betting against other players to win THEIR money) necessarily does so at a window (or more likely many windows at different venues for the same wager), with cash in exchange for a paper ticket, anonymously. Someone who sincerely believes they are a clear winner for large amounts over a significant time period through account wagering is flat out delusional, which I'll grant you is a pretty common condition among gambling degenerates.
And yes, I do understand that's something quite different than the main issue the OP raised in this thread, involving his wager which he says WAS accepted, and then cancelled.
Money is often like sex and brains: Those who've really gotten plenty generally are not inclined to go around advertising their surplus, and those who want to talk about how much they've got are usually "all hat, no cattle" Axel. You have enough people wanting to vouch for you that I'm inclined to think that unlike most you actually do much of what you publicly imply that you do, but I severely doubt your capacity for judgment, and I've been around the block enough times over the years to know the [bullspit/reality=(x)] formula in these matters routinely produces a number much smaller than "one" by several decimal places. Use your own 10 G's any way you like.
Quote: AxelWolf
my gripe is that people are chiming in, regarding online gambling , people that have almost no experience online and don't know enough(just what they hear, they're just assuming everything). they hear all kinds of stories some true, and some are just bandwagon hysteria.
I understand your gripe, and I'm sympathetic to it. What we really have is money gamblers and casual gamblers at odds in what they want out of the activity. If you're in it for the money, then you'll find a way to place the bet; and if you're savvy you'll find the edge, be it on line or in person. But if you're in it for casual entertainment, and you're not savvy (I don't mind admitting that at all, I'm savvy enough to know it), then online gambling is foolhardy, more foolhardy that in person because of the extra uncertainty of lack of regulation.
And of course you're right. I would never have a problem with not getting paid from an online bet, because I'm never going to have the pleasure of winning an online bet. But my reasoning is also sound. If I'm not into it, then this is just another reason to not bother to try.
And I can still read Romes' account and think he got screwed, at the same time understanding that there is no guarantee he is a reliable narrator. (Sorry Romes, it's not you, but a condition of the internet. I don't know you. I can believe your story but withhold judgement.) It's a good story, and he makes a convincing case. It would be interesting to know if Bovada cancelled ALL wagers on that action. It would be the right thing to do, not collect anything from losers as well as not pay winners. Dead action should be dead action for everyone.
Quote: mickeycrimmYour first mistake in life is thinking that Bovada is your friend.
The same can be said about any brick and mortar casino.
Everybody in this world is out to make a buck, and if people get screwed, oh well.
FWIW, I've never bet online and never will.
My buddy bets sports online, small amounts, no problems yet.
I respect most of your posts, however I respectfully say again, you're way off base on this one.Quote: DrawingDeadOh. I see. Well that's remarkable. Astounding, and I'm impressed. Congratulations, because you obviously have the most sunny face and magnetic personality that has ever existed. T are often providing access to their personal account records to Mr. Axel, and what is on those records is apparently much different than what they say among their peers in the discussion boards that exist among professional sports bettors, where they continually gripe and moan about how wager size for them is restricted online (including legal licensed brick & mortar affiliated online options as well as the better low-vig offshore lines) and "soft" lines are instantly moved off the quote to another number for them or rejected altogether for amounts that are large enough to be meaningful, thus inducing them to routinely deal with the circuit for cash wagering at the counters at multiple casinos to break up their wagers anonymously. I'm gonna go with that, what with it not being as laden with self-aggrandizing puffery, rather than what you say about what someone claims about how they crush it for oodles of dough in their tracked online accounts, which they then allow others to access to trumpet how good they are.
Money is often like sex and brains: Those who've really gotten plenty generally are not inclined to go around advertising their surplus, and those who want to talk about how much they've got are usually "all hat, no cattle" Axel. You have enough people wanting to vouch for you that I'm inclined to think that unlike most you actually do much of what you publicly imply that you do, but I severely doubt your capacity for judgment, and I've been around the block enough times over the years to know the [bullspit/reality=(x)] formula in these matters routinely produces a number much smaller than "one" by several decimal places. Use your own 10 G's any way you like.
FYI. I don't usually associate with "the notoriously grumpy and often legitimately paranoid professional sports bettors" You make it seem like i'm cruising though the sports book, taking to every Low level degenerate sports bettor and just taking there word for it(I'M NOT). I'm well aware of the fact that most of them guys are lifetime losers and have no chance.It takes tons of dedication.
You painted a good picture if that was how I really got my information but thats not even close.
I know guys who I have been friends and partner with, I know for a fact (Unless They are secretly robbing banks at night and haven't been caught yet) that make a substantial amount of money betting sports. I have seen them grow there wealth throughout the years with no other source of income. Going from a simple modest car, house rental and low bankroll to very very nice life style.
I have Participated at times and have taken a small Percentage of their action thorough the years. Unless they are purposely inflating numbers in order to give me money just because I have "the most sunny face and magnetic personality" your way off base
As I said I know thee are very few that can succeed. But why do you find it so hard
Just look at What Mike has revealed with the half point parlay cards. That and things like correlated parlay opportunities, money line dogs, has been going on for years. with guys getting down thousands not just hundreds . Just the hockey parlays back in the day made many many thousands in a short period alone.
Im not going to publicly spell out every online sports opportunity that ever was and is. Feel free to PM me and perhaps Ill explain a few and you might have a different view. If its a ego thing for you at this point, I'll retract everything(I have no need to win this argument), then just dismiss whatever I say, and agree to disagreed and not believe, you have that right. Even so called experts will say its impossible to beat reel slots
I try to keep an open mind and generally look at the source Personally I choose to save my absolute disbelief for the Roulette and baccarat system players, or guys like Tournament Queen.
I Wouldn't totally dismiss something thats possible, like clocking a wheel, or finding a bias, glitch or gaff.
Quote: JohnnyQWell, 60 Minutes Story - Case in Point .Unfortunately, lots of ads on this CBS Site.
When i read The Smart Money i had no idea who the big sports bettor was that Michael Konik was writing about. I seen that 60 minutes piece and immediately knew it was Billy Walters. Konik is the former gambling writer for Cigar Afficianado Magazine. His other books, The Man With The Hundred Dollar Breasts and Telling Lies And Getting Paid are also good.
Edit: Should read hundred thousand dollar breasts.
Not to pay you, you are no it going to be paid.
they are judge , jury, and executor. There is no court of appeal. I
If you supply iron clad proof, there response will be either not our fault or we have
Taken steps to insure it will not happen again.
As for losing business, those who have been paid will say " I always got paid ". Approved mean we got paid for your business, we will try and help.
but you ain't gonna get paid, just the same.
Le Bovada was the sole advertiser. While that is no longer true, perhaps LCB swings a bigger stick than Mike ?
In either case on many forums I see complaints resolved as to the fairness of a game or randomness.
but I never remember one where a casino reversed itself on a decision to not pay. I
In the past I have recommended Bovada to friends. I would not refer anyone to the numerous casinos now listed.
I believe Mission stated casinos might be listed in the future that did not quite meet the Approved standards ? ? ?
Please do not take this as a reflection on the integrity of Mike or Zuma.
But I can not believe Bovada can not provide the time that the bet was placed. I am sure someone. Here could find out what time the actual event
Occurred
That might be exactly why Bovada will not provide that documentation.
R
1) Move to Nevada so you can focus on what you are doing NOT whether your bets are accepted or will be paid
2) sports betting is like ANY OTHER PROFESSION if you don't put in huge effort, intelligence and research plus ongoing data complete with strong emotion control YOU WILL NOT MAKE MONEY if you do you will, its that simple It is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE it is like any other business Everyone thinks "I really know baseball" SO WHAT
3) any true sports bettor who does it for a living will NOT BE EXPLAINING ALL THEIR METHODS OR PROVIDING PICKS if I need to explain that you certainly will never make it. If you don't accept that look at the results of all most all daily "free pick" specialists and many others offering guidance IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU DONT NEED TO MAKE EXTRA BUCKS BY TELLING OTHERS
the above is cast iron, if you don't understand or accept it I never expect to see you in Vegas
even in countries where it is legal SITES RIP OFF CUSTOMERS EVERY DAY if they don't want to pay they have a customer charter which you accept upon usage which is BOMBPROOF and gives them complete carte blanche to do as they please its that simple. They have a list of excuses/reasons which is cast iron from "multi IP addresses" - so what?, "betting collusion" - your buddy bet the same game - so what? the list is endless
SOLUTION? DONT USE THEM
Quote: JohnnyQWell, 60 Minutes Story - Case in Point .Unfortunately, lots of ads on this CBS Site.
Great video. Really enjoyed it.
What really fascinates me is he is able to move the lines.
Wow, talk about balls, bet big in one direction to move the line then put a huge amount on the other side to take advantage of the line movement.
Quote: terapinedQuote: JohnnyQWell, 60 Minutes Story - Case in Point .Unfortunately, lots of ads on this CBS Site.
Great video. Really enjoyed it.
What really fascinates me is he is able to move the lines.
Wow, talk about balls, bet big in one direction to move the line then put a huge amount on the other side to take advantage of the line movement.
They call it a "flinch bet." Make the bookie flinch then pound the other side. LOL!
And that certainly has nothing to do with Billy Walters and his wagering through runners in brick & mortar sports books. He's quite a notable public figure for a number of reasons. Advance deposit account wagering is not among them. An online book would not need to go through Billy Walters' trash to find his betting records, because they would be the online book's records. Billy Walters is indeed a very interesting fellow, I'm certainly familiar with him Axel, he's quite a fascinating guy, who has been well known for a long time for many things, including *cough* arranging *ahem* a lot of rather old-school controversial and very NOT-online local government zoning change & land flipping & development deals, among other things not in the "60-minutes" infotainment piece broadcasting a snippet of what he wishes to say about his brick & mortar casino sports betting (which State and Federal prosecutors have repeatedly alleged is, according to them & the FBI, supposedly a front for laundering the money from other activities):
Potential bogey
Chanos Asks FBI to Take Over Walters Land Deal Investigation
Where Is Las Vegas City Hall Corruption Probe?
Crony of two LV mayors makes a killing
DEVELOPER BILL WALTERS: Lucrative deals just par for course
WALTERS LAND DEAL: Redlein demoted after briefing
And all of that is equally irrelevant to the particular issues involved in advance deposit account wagering online on house banked games, for someone who is more than a recreational bettor. In which, once again in case someone missed the point, all wagering is obviously known and tracked by the entity booking the bets, unlike conventional brick & mortar sports betting in cash transactions.
Several of the links don't work (the 3rd, 5th, and 6th), but those that do are pretty astonishing. Wow.
Sorry about the links that aren't working; thanks for pointing that out. I don't think I can fix those that aren't. They were live before, but it looks like the Review-Journal is restricting access to some of their archives.Quote: beachbumbabsDD,
Several of the links don't work (the 3rd, 5th, and 6th), but those that do are pretty astonishing. Wow.
It probably wouldn't be astonishing or even mildly surprising for those who follow matters pertaining to local government in southern Nevada. Folks involved in local political leadership and administrative positions have quite a habit of going to prison rather often, almost always due to the usually slow moving but inevitable FEDERAL rather than local law enforcement investigation of their *ahem* shall we say "informal" work product and methods.
ADD: But something that remains astonishing even after years of it is folks repeatedly taking the amazing leap of faith that being a sports betting prodigy is where his money comes from. I don't doubt that he's a sharp bettor. I imagine especially so on those occasions when he actually bets with his own money. My best guess is that his sports betting is probably net-net profitable. There is no doubt, from court documents, that it is large. Personally I think I'd really enjoy being a birdie on his shoulder for a while when he does so. He's a very bright guy. For what is relevant to this thread, if one paid attention to his "60-Minutes" appearance and took everything he presented at face value, it is clear enough (there as well as elsewhere) that he wagers on sports with brick and mortar books using old fashioned runners. But to the extent he's used as an example or demonstration or proof of raking in mega-oodles of moolah from his allegedly winning big at sports betting, that would require becoming gullible and overlooking mountains of stubborn facts to the point of being just plain silly, and when it happens, as it often does in many heavily embellished local "urban legend" type conversations, would unintentionally amount to an excellent argument for reading more & more fully & carefully, including some of the not so colorful nitty stuff like the actual content of evidence presented in court documents, and watching TV and following the narratives preferred in one's choice of peer groups less. The take from just a few of the land deals he does (or fronts for) with "friendly" local government folk dwarfs the liquidity of the sports betting market.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm mot defending them and what happened, I would like for them to prove that you did in fact past post, and that ALL of the bets win or lose were refunded.
Im a bit concerned Zuga hasn't really said much Regarding this. A simple bovada statement isn't going to fly. You may not be one of his affiliate link clickers, but it's not as if you ran to this site and signed up Just for help after the fact and started complaining.
Your a Long time BV/BD member and your a valued WOV Member since: Jul 22, 2014 with
396 Posts.
You and me would both like the proof, which 3 reps and a supervisor openly told me they did not have / could not get.
Zuga messaged me to let me know he was trying to get more information. I've been 'trying' to wait patiently since then =p.
Bovada didn't seem to care much, nor at all, that I was a member of 8 years participating in every gambling aspect of their site. Honestly, I was pretty astonished at the level of "we don't care at all" I felt I was given.
Quote: jml24This is different than accepting a bet and then voiding it after a loss. IMO the standard for them to not pay an accepted bet should be very high. I am sure it happens in regulated physical casinos in cases where someone is caught actually cheating, but otherwise they pay winning bets. If they think something fishy may be going on they may 86 you after they pay, but they will pay.
Exactly. If you think I was doing something, or are mad that I'm winning, or whatever the case may be... You pay the ACCEPTED wagers, and then flat bet, 86, or whatever you deem necassary, but you pay the accepted winning wagers!
Quote: Zuga...I am 100% confident that Bovada would not "cheat" ( as some of you pointed out ) players for few hundred bucks ( not that they would cheat them for much more or ever ), and risk damaging their good reputation.
I don't see how they wouldn't be willing to damage their reputation with some of the things they flat told me. "We have no proof, we agree with you, oh terms of service we're going to cancel your accepted winning bet. Thanks, bye." They honestly seemed like they didn't care, and in fact do this on a routine daily basis =/.
Quote: Zuga
This is not about stiffing the players ( btw Bovada has an impeccable record for paying players ) , it is about whether the bet(s) was placed before or after the outcome was known.
Bovada claims that both players did bet on stale lines, intentionally or not, hence breaking their T&Cs.
Once I get an update I will post back.
Okay, so we're back where I was on the phone with them. They claim the bets were on stale lines... Now comes the tipping point. Prove It. Since 4 people from Bovada told me they can't, I'll be eager to see what happens when they come back and say "Yeah, they were stale lines, just take our word ;)"
Quote: JohnnyQWell, 60 Minutes Story - Case in Point .Unfortunately, lots of ads on this CBS Site.
Great video. Agreed it's the tip of an iceberg, but I enjoy these kinds of videos =).
Quote: aladyat42...Please do not take this as a reflection on the integrity of Mike or Zuma.
But I can not believe Bovada can not provide the time that the bet was placed. I am sure someone. Here could find out what time the actual event
Occurred. That might be exactly why Bovada will not provide that documentation.
Too bad they told me they don't have this information, and can't get it =/. I seriously don't understand how this even happens. As they explained it the guy watching the game "live" on the TV shows/hides the lines. If you're letting a line or two get away and you're normally hiding the lines when they get to the line of scrimmage, then try hiding the lines earlier, before they leave the huddle?
And how hard would it be for the guy clicking "show" and "hide" to also click "Record Play Start" and "Record Play End" that takes a simple timestamp of the plays? Or maybe it does this automatically when the line's hidden? And this is a few moments of thinking... I would expect an online casino as large and "reputable" as Bovada could figure this out for themselves. In the mean time, don't punish the players for their incompetitence.
So when speaking with the supervisor and coming to a dead end, I requested my account be cashed out/deactivated. He said no problem and it was done. A week has gone by and I indeed got a check for my account balance. So at lunch today, I went down to my bank to cash it. Of course, a problem...
Since Bovada apparently has a bank in Canada they operate their funds out of, I got a "canadian" check mailed to me here at my address in the US. My bank informed me that american checks can be scanned, and that the scanned images can be sent to each other (US Bank, PNC, Chase, etc). However, canadian banks REQUIRE the physical check! Thus, the only way to cash my check was to ship it to them, and to get my funds back in about 6 weeks... oh, and there's a $25 fee for doing so.
So after all this dibacle, Bovada sends checks to Americans that we can't even cash. It takes another 6 weeks and whatever fee your bank inevitably charges you to mail the physical check and get the money back.
lol Bovada is becoming more and more of a headache/joke. I've been with them for 8 years and never had to deal with a canadian check before. What the hell?
See Zuma has a sense of humor. Like Bovada would not cheat and risk ruining it.s reputation. Lol what a joke? Once they decided to not pay that was it. Does Zuma think the Canadian check was just a coincidence. ? ?
? Great customer service from an APpROved casino.?..
Quote: RomesUPDATE
So when speaking with the supervisor and coming to a dead end, I requested my account be cashed out/deactivated. He said no problem and it was done. A week has gone by and I indeed got a check for my account balance. So at lunch today, I went down to my bank to cash it. Of course, a problem...
Since Bovada apparently has a bank in Canada they operate their funds out of, I got a "canadian" check mailed to me here at my address in the US. My bank informed me that american checks can be scanned, and that the scanned images can be sent to each other (US Bank, PNC, Chase, etc). However, canadian banks REQUIRE the physical check! Thus, the only way to cash my check was to ship it to them, and to get my funds back in about 6 weeks... oh, and there's a $25 fee for doing so.
So after all this dibacle, Bovada sends checks to Americans that we can't even cash. It takes another 6 weeks and whatever fee your bank inevitably charges you to mail the physical check and get the money back.
lol Bovada is becoming more and more of a headache/joke. I've been with them for 8 years and never had to deal with a canadian check before. What the hell?
Any fees regarding a withdrawl should be stated up front during the deposit process.
I have a Bovada account and am disapointed that I am not aware of these fees regarding a withdrawl for a USA client.
Back in the hey day of online poker, won a huge 2 dollar tornament, 1st place out of several hundred players.
Decided to withdraw just the winnings.
Got a check in the mail. prior to depositing , made a copy of it to hang on my wall :-)
Bank had no problem with the deposit, no fees.
Not thrilled to learn there are fees associated if I close my Bovada account.
Its only fair that an online casino makes a person aware of these fees during the deposit process.
How do YOU normally get funds from bovada? They have been sending checks from Canada and other countries for a long time now. Never had a big problem, even walmart has cashed them (if they scan and you have a history)Quote: RomesUPDATE
So when speaking with the supervisor and coming to a dead end, I requested my account be cashed out/deactivated. He said no problem and it was done. A week has gone by and I indeed got a check for my account balance. So at lunch today, I went down to my bank to cash it. Of course, a problem...
Since Bovada apparently has a bank in Canada they operate their funds out of, I got a "canadian" check mailed to me here at my address in the US. My bank informed me that american checks can be scanned, and that the scanned images can be sent to each other (US Bank, PNC, Chase, etc). However, canadian banks REQUIRE the physical check! Thus, the only way to cash my check was to ship it to them, and to get my funds back in about 6 weeks... oh, and there's a $25 fee for doing so.
So after all this dibacle, Bovada sends checks to Americans that we can't even cash. It takes another 6 weeks and whatever fee your bank inevitably charges you to mail the physical check and get the money back.
lol Bovada is becoming more and more of a headache/joke. I've been with them for 8 years and never had to deal with a canadian check before. What the hell?
What bank do you have? A canadian check should clear quickly, I had them clear in 2 days. Your bank might be sending it to collections to be approved. That's your banks decision it could be due to lack of transactions or to many. It also depends on how much money you have in the bank and you're history.
Was the check over 3k?
Quote: AxelWolfHow do YOU normally get funds from bovada? They have been sending checks from Canada and other countries for a long time now. Never had a big problem, even walmart has cashed them (if they scan and you have a history)Quote: RomesUPDATE
So when speaking with the supervisor and coming to a dead end, I requested my account be cashed out/deactivated. He said no problem and it was done. A week has gone by and I indeed got a check for my account balance. So at lunch today, I went down to my bank to cash it. Of course, a problem...
Since Bovada apparently has a bank in Canada they operate their funds out of, I got a "canadian" check mailed to me here at my address in the US. My bank informed me that american checks can be scanned, and that the scanned images can be sent to each other (US Bank, PNC, Chase, etc). However, canadian banks REQUIRE the physical check! Thus, the only way to cash my check was to ship it to them, and to get my funds back in about 6 weeks... oh, and there's a $25 fee for doing so.
So after all this dibacle, Bovada sends checks to Americans that we can't even cash. It takes another 6 weeks and whatever fee your bank inevitably charges you to mail the physical check and get the money back.
lol Bovada is becoming more and more of a headache/joke. I've been with them for 8 years and never had to deal with a canadian check before. What the hell?
What bank do you have? A canadian check should clear quickly, I had them clear in 2 days. Your bank might be sending it to collections to be approved. That's your banks decision it could be due to lack of transactions or to many. It also depends on how much money you have in the bank and you're history.
Was the check over 3k?
I usually kept anywhere from a couple hundred to about a grand in my Bovada account for sports betting/etc. Quite often I can handicap the MMA lines better than the people whom do them (at least in my opinion) and I'll make bets if I see something I consider an advantage. I had under $1k in my Bovada account before all of this started; the $100 win at +330 would have been a nice chunk added to my account.
I'd rather not release my bank, but it's one of the major one's to say the least. When I was in person speaking with the supervisor earlier today and she informed me that as I stated previously, 'some' US banks DO cash canadian checks, IF the check says "payable at <bank name>" on it... which my check from Bovada does not. So she said in all honesty that she's not sure if another bank would cash it or not, and of course I would inquire a fee for cashing a check at a bank I do not have an account at. So either way I'm looking at some kind of check cashing fee, because of Bovada. As stated before she said their contract with canadian banks required the physical check to be mailed to the canadian bank, and then the funds to be sent to my bank, and that this could take 'up to 6 weeks,' which she said usually it's about that or a week or two under.
In the last couple years my Bovada has been active, but VERY tapered down compared to how I used to play 5 nights a week, 5 tables at a time anywhere from $100 buy in to $500 buy in. I haven't actually withdrawn in a year or two because I rarely do any kind of decent action with them anymore. Back when I was in the full go of a professional online poker career I was cashing out a few hundred a night usually. I'm fairly confident I received checks from them in the past as well; I can't recall if I ever did a wire transfer. I can tell you I never used to get canadian checks though...
Quote: aladyat42Glad to
See Zuma has a sense of humor. Like Bovada would not cheat and risk ruining it.s reputation. Lol what a joke? Once they decided to not pay that was it. Does Zuma think the Canadian check was just a coincidence. ? ?
? Great customer service from an APpROved casino.?..
FYI its Zuga
And FYI it is not uncommon for USA allowed casinos to send Canadian checks. And Bovada has their operations in Canada.
So no conspiracy there
As far as Romes and their friend. I am still waiting on more info regarding their bets. Please mind it was a weekend and the Rep was off.
However I just did have a quick skype meeting with them, and they will request more info from the bookmaker. Will see what they have to say and what kind of info they can reveal to me.
They did find strange indeed that Romes has been betting $1 for a while until they slammed that big bet.
Quote: ZugaThey did find strange indeed that Romes has been betting $1 for a while until they slammed that big bet.
Might be confusing Romes with Scottimus1.
Both posted screeshots.
Scottimus went from 1 to a large amount.
I dont think that was Romes betting pattern.
Or am I missing something ?
Quote: aladyat42Sorry ZUGA. I will not make that mistakes again. The issue is not betting patterns. A bet was made and accepted. The bettor did not get paid.
Or am I missing something ?
the main issue is whether the bet was placed on the stale lines or not. Bovada claims it was and Romes is asking for a proof. And I am waiting on more info.
And another issue is the betting pattern which raised some red flags and which may or may not be related to the betting on what Bovada claims was on the stale lines.
Is there a correlation between these two... don't know, but my understanding is that might be a possibility.
*not a paid endorser
