Gandler
Gandler
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December 1st, 2014 at 8:18:42 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Quote: Gandler

Quote: petroglyph

Full Definition of WAR [Mirriams]

1
a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : state of war
b : the art or science of warfare
c (1) obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war
2
a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism
b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease>


It is all semantics Sancho. As I am sure you are aware, the US had advisers on the ground in 1950, build up in 61-2, Gulf of Tonkin 1964. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War, was never declared by congress as such so many still say we were never at "war" with North Vietnam. You are also aware that congress did not declare war with Afghanistan, so how do we want to describe the conflict in Afghanistan?

Declarations of war by congress;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States from link, the longest war the US has engaged in was the war against the Apache indians from 1840 to 1886.



By that definition, many of those you listed would not be "wars".

Many were Green Beret-type covert action training/advisor type operations, not actually engagement of an enemy. Or Stabilization efforts. But certainly not "openly declared wars".


ISRAELI QUOTE:

“To paraphrase Karl von Clausewitz, law is used as the continuation of war by other means.”
Editorial, Jerusalem Post, Dec. 15, 2009

I am not certain which you are referring too? Mostly what I have posted are quotes, usually with a links.

You have previously posted your desire for central government [paraphrased], do you support these hundreds of actions, none of which this central planning will commit themselves to, that they are to cowardly to go on record as having said? These seem to me to be the people you want in charge. Everything, a "police action" without any them having to say one way or the other. Often they defer to the United Nations.

Who do you expect to make an decision about armed conflict? These are the very same non committal stooges that you wish to be in control of law enforcement.



I have and I do.

But it would presumably be Homeland Security that would do the regulating, not DOD. And yes, some politicians have made bad choices. But that is a whole separate argument. You can't equate military operations to Police Work. Involving in oversees conflicts is much more hazy and sometimes mistakes are made and then reverted. LE would have a straightforward policy, its not a game of diplomats like foreign involvement is...

I was referring to wars that are not wars by any reasonable definition. And yes many of them I have supported.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
Tanko
Tanko
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:09:46 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

If anyone wants to debate it, have at it.

1945 – World War II


1950 – Korean War, Jayuga Uprising


1955 – Vietnam War


1987 – Conflict in Persian Gulf


1991 – First Gulf War

1992 – Conflict in Iraq


2001 – War on Terror in Afghanistan

2002 – War on Terror in Afghanistan and Yemen

2003 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, and Iraq

2004 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2005 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2006 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2007 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen

2008 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2009 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2010 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2011 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen; Conflict in Libya (Libyan Civil War)



The US hasn't won a war since 1945.
Face
Administrator
Face
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:21:35 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

The US hasn't won a war since 1945.



No one cares about exhibition games.

The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
MrV
MrV
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:26:47 PM permalink
Hey, you forgot to mention our two kick ass victories in the eighties: Grenada and Panama.
"What, me worry?"
Gandler
Gandler
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:28:02 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

The US hasn't won a war since 1945.



Well if you count all of those as wars then we have. We accomplished our objective in Korea (and still have a large presence helping South Korea keep border security). We won Libya (based on Obama's objectives). We won Desert Storm. We accomplished our main objective in the more recent Iraq war. And progress has been made in Afganistan.

The only war that could be argued to be a total failure is Vietnam.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
rxwine
rxwine
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:37:07 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Well if you count all of those as wars then we have. We accomplished our objective in Korea (and still have a large presence helping South Korea keep border security). We won Libya (based on Obama's objectives). We won Desert Storm. We accomplished our main objective in the more recent Iraq war. And progress has been made in Afganistan.

The only war that could be argued to be a total failure is Vietnam.



Oddly enough that failure looks like the most successful of the bunch right now. I'm going to argue that Kim in N. Korea is not such a great success.

http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/deciding-on-the-right-country/top-expatriate-destinations/vietnam/
One person's freedom is another person's annoying crap.
Gandler
Gandler
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:41:22 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Oddly enough that failure looks like the most successful of the bunch right now. I'm going to argue that Kim in N. Korea is not such a great success.

http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/deciding-on-the-right-country/top-expatriate-destinations/vietnam/



It was. We prevented them from spreading into South Korea. Our goal was not to "take out" N. Korea, just to defend South Korea.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine
petroglyph
petroglyph
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:41:39 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Well if you count all of those as wars then we have. We accomplished our objective in Korea (and still have a large presence helping South Korea keep border security). We won Libya (based on Obama's objectives). We won Desert Storm. We accomplished our main objective in the more recent Iraq war. And progress has been made in Afganistan.

Quote:

The only war that could be argued to be a total failure is Vietnam.

Vietnam "accomplished" the exact same thing as what you consider "successful" wars, exactly.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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December 1st, 2014 at 9:48:03 PM permalink
Back OT,

Tensions Between the U.S. and Russia Are Worse Than You Realize – Remarks by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/12/01/tensions-between-the-u-s-and-russia-are-worse-than-you-realize-remarks-by-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov/
Gandler
Gandler
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December 1st, 2014 at 10:10:36 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Vietnam "accomplished" the exact same thing as what you consider "successful" wars, exactly.



South Korea exists.

South Vietnam does not exist. Hence a failure. North Vietnam overtook South Vietnam, hence we failed our goal.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.” -Thomas Paine

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