scottndindy
scottndindy
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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September 28th, 2014 at 1:56:29 PM permalink
I recently took a trip to a major Vegas strip casino and encountered the following situation. I wanted to know how you guys would have handled it. On Monday of last week I deposited 17K in the cage as front money. I played Monday - Friday taking multiple markers daily.

On Wednesday night of my trip I took out a marker for $2500. The pit boss placed 2500 in lammers on the table and the dealer counted out 1500 in black chips and 2 $500 chips. Next the dealer looked down and cut out an additional $1000 in black chips. It is almost like she forgot about the 2 500 chips. At this point I told her you have 3500 in chips out. She acknowledged what I said and ignored it.

She called out for approval and the pit looked over and said 2500 - go ahead. She stacked up $2500 in black and $1000 in 500 chips and passed them my way.

Fast forward to 2 days later. I have a 6:40 am flight and stopped at the cage at 5:15 to withdraw my remaining front money. I had 10K still remaining on deposit. The cage took my card did a bit of paperwork but prior to paying me said I needed to speak with a casino manager. I asked if there was a problem and they wouldn't tell me anything but I needed to speak to a manager. They called a manager who told me that I had been mis-paid and that I needed to pay it back. He said that they had video and asked if I would like to see it. I told him I would like to see it so was able to go into the back of the casino into the executive offices and watch it on his computer. After watching the video he says you took out 2500 and we gave you 3500. Will you pay back the $1000.00. At this point the cage still wouldn't cash me out so I didn't think I had any choice but to acknowledge what I saw and say yes. I went back downstairs in which they cashed me out and escorted me to the table which the marker was incorrectly paid and had me buy in with $1000. They counted out $1000 in chips and then put them back in the rack.

Was I obligated to pay back the $1000? Once they cashed me out if I tried to leave would they have stopped me? If I said no would I ever be welcome at that property or related properties again?
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
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September 28th, 2014 at 2:05:03 PM permalink
If you made a big stink about it chances are you would be able to keep the $1K, but you will get barred from the casino.

It's not worth the headache for the casino to recover the 1K if you're not willing to pay it back, but you will get barred.

I'm not sure about how the law is worded or what legal recourse they have, but in practice the way casinos handle uncooperative players for small amounts is to just bar them.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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September 28th, 2014 at 3:24:07 PM permalink
I guess if you were going to make a move, you would've been wise to do it immediately, but still they had all your info, and I really think it was enough money that they would've pursued it even if you departed within the hour.

IMO, yes, you were obligated; you knew right away the dealer was making an error, you tried to correct it. So, if they had not asked for it back at some point, and you weren't able to convince them at the time they made the error that they needed to correct it, perhaps you could have moved on without a guilty conscience.

But they did ask for it back. So you were obligated. I would've liked your story to include that they gave you brownie points both for trying to correct it at the time, and paying it back when they asked, which translated to offer you some significant freeplay as thanks. Kind of like a reward for returning a wallet intact.

And I do think, had it gone unresolved, that you were going to be banned for it.

But my opinion is strictly my opinion, without being any part of a casino.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
1BB
1BB
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September 28th, 2014 at 4:19:52 PM permalink
It would have been so much easier if you had just given it back immediately. Instead of the villain you would have been the hero. They know you took a shot even though they wouldn't accuse you of anything. Awkward!

Have I ever done that? Those records as well as my lips are sealed. :-)
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Deucekies
Deucekies
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September 28th, 2014 at 4:40:32 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

It would have been so much easier if you had just given it back immediately. Instead of the villain you would have been the hero.


He tried though. He pointed out the mistake, and the dealer acknowledged him but paid him anyway.

Between the dealer bringing out the $3500 despite the OP telling her it was too much, and the pit boss not knowing $3500 when he sees it, I'd say the OP was within his rights to at least try and keep the money at that point in time. He does have to realize, however, that the management can come asking for that money any time, and like others have said so far, his choices are likely to give that money back or be banned.

I'm curious what the casino would have done if he had lost his entire stake. Would they still demand the $1000, or shrug it off reasoning that they got it back anyway?
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
scottndindy
scottndindy
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September 28th, 2014 at 5:32:43 PM permalink
I definitely requested perks for paying it back. My first request was freeplay. The casino manager told me that he couldn't offer freeplay. My 2nd request was a suite for my next visit and he told me I had to speak to my host about that. I followed up with I am sure that will come out of my comps and he told me he would talk to my host about it.(which the way he said it was a yes)

After reflecting on the situation I would have done the following if I could do it again. I would demand to cash out 9k and leave the 1k on deposit. I would make sure that my comps were taken care of properly. I had 1600 in hotel charges that my host was picking up. At this point I would have had room to properly negotiate if that was an option. In my situation I had 15 minutes to rectify this before leaving for the airport and had a 1k upside with 9K+1.6K downside.

One thing that was very surprising was the poor quality of the video. I am not sure if it was degraded so it could be easily emailed but the clarity was poor. You could see colors but couldn't read numbers.
1BB
1BB
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September 28th, 2014 at 5:42:02 PM permalink
Quote: scottndindy

I definitely requested perks for paying it back. My first request was freeplay. The casino manager told me that he couldn't offer freeplay. My 2nd request was a suite for my next visit and he told me I had to speak to my host about that. I followed up with I am sure that will come out of my comps and he told me he would talk to my host about it.(which the way he said it was a yes)

After reflecting on the situation I would have done the following if I could do it again. I would demand to cash out 9k and leave the 1k on deposit. I would make sure that my comps were taken care of properly. I had 1600 in hotel charges that my host was picking up. At this point I would have had room to properly negotiate if that was an option. In my situation I had 15 minutes to rectify this before leaving for the airport and had a 1k upside with 9K+1.6K downside.

One thing that was very surprising was the poor quality of the video. I am not sure if it was degraded so it could be easily emailed but the clarity was poor. You could see colors but couldn't read numbers.



How many people were present in this "back room"? Did you bring anyone with you? Were you at all apprehensive? Why not tell them you'd take their word for it or did you play dumb? You knew the outcome.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
scottndindy
scottndindy
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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September 28th, 2014 at 6:03:13 PM permalink
It was only me and the casino manager. It wasn't like a back room detention area but it was the casino managers personal office. Once you walk off the casino floor there was about 2 locked doors and then it looked just like a standard office setup. This was at 5:30 in the morning so there were not any other people present in the office area. While it was a surprise I can't deny that I was a bit curious to see 1)what the office area of a casino looks like and 2) what video feeds look like and 3) how good their evidence was. I obviously knew it happened so there wasn't any real downside to seeing additional info.
1BB
1BB
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September 28th, 2014 at 6:16:39 PM permalink
The casinos that I'm familiar with frequently refer to "the tape" but when their bluff is called they always seem to come up with an excuse for not being able to show it. They just don't want anyone to see it. I'm surprised they showed you but it was a significant amount.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
chefphydeaux
chefphydeaux
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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September 28th, 2014 at 7:55:02 PM permalink
Im wondering how fast you would expect them to refunds $1000 if it had happened the other way around. They paid you 2500 in checks, but the marker was for 3500. Say you hadn't noticed the mistake until you were ready to cash out you money in the cage. After reconciling your records, as well as theirs, you realize that you had been shorted, how big a fuss would you have raised to get your money back?

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