Silent counting dealers
Quote: onenickelmiracleIrritating they want to count chips or cards without verbalizing. I can't always see very well and think they shouldn't be doing this because their mistakes might not be caught. It's poor service in my opinion being accepted. I don't trust them and get berated counting my own chips before I turn them in. I don't even like coloring up and should just dump the chips in my pockets anymore and it's not their business to know what I cash out with anyways I think. None of their information I want to know do they make it easy. Counting may slow the games down, but a step to make sure they're doing things right should not be ignored because there is a purpose.
You're under no obligation to color up.
You are free to count your own chips as slowly and thoroughly as you want before coloring up. I count my chips before every color up.
Maybe I am too trusting, but the way they seem to do it for the camera makes me feel like it is right.
Quote: beachbumbabsI also always count my chips before a color-up. There's always enough time to do that. I also generally only turn in enough for the correct larger chips, as a check-measure of my own counting.
This.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIrritating they want to count chips or cards without verbalizing. I can't always see very well and think they shouldn't be doing this because their mistakes might not be caught. It's poor service in my opinion being accepted. I don't trust them and get berated counting my own chips before I turn them in. I don't even like coloring up and should just dump the chips in my pockets anymore and it's not their business to know what I cash out with anyways I think. None of their information I want to know do they make it easy. Counting may slow the games down, but a step to make sure they're doing things right should not be ignored because there is a purpose.
They are your chips; do whatever you want. If you don't want to color up, don't color up. They will ask you to, but you are free to say no. If you want to sit there and count them, sit there and count them.
FWIW, they will record what you leave with whether you color up or not. Their estimates will be pretty accurate. The color ups are to reduce the number of fills (to keep the game moving).
Why would you stop playing while you still have chips?
Just realize that you have to wait for the current hand to finish before you slide your chips forward.
I know it's unusual, but some people are winners. More often, people like to leave before going broke.Quote: petroglyphI don't understand how when you are done there are any chips to count?
Why would you stop playing while you still have chips?
Sort chips by Value High is Left to Right.
Count out stacks of five. Take chips and size into that first stack until all chips consumed, spread unit chips on table.
(Yes, for Greens...it FOUR in a stack. Makes sense. )
I've been tipping all night... so I'll take the time and table space to count my own chips. Pressure from the Box notwithstanding.
Add up the time it takes all those yokels to talk about a chicken dinner versus the time it takes me to count my chips and I ain't asking for much.
That said, I have heard stories of cardrooms, mostly small ones, who specifically disallow their dealers from calling out hand totals. This accomplishes two things: 1) it eliminates the chance of a dealer miscalling a hand and misleading a player, possibly giving the player grounds for a misdeal in their eyes, and 2) it increases the likelihood that a player will misplay on their own. Reason 1 is hocus-pocus in my opinion, but I can almost see where they're coming from. Reason 2 is just bush league.
As for counting out chips, it is your right and you're prerogative to count out your chips. I won't say anything about you holding up the game unless I see the other players getting impatient. At that point, I'll politely offer to help you. I would not, and no dealer should, ever pressure you to hurry up.
Quote: Deucekies1) it eliminates the chance of a dealer miscalling a hand and misleading a player, possibly giving the player grounds for a misdeal in their eyes, and 2) it increases the likelihood that a player will misplay on their own. Reason 1 is hocus-pocus in my opinion, but I can almost see where they're coming from. Reason 2 is just bush league.
You really think that #1 is hocus-pocus? Has it ever happened to you as a dealer?
Eg, the player has a 5-card 17, you miscount it and call out 16, they hit and bust. They get annoyed and complain to the pit. Now what? I think that a good pit would burn the bust card and let them keep their 17, but this still might cause complaints if that card would have busted the dealer.
Quote:As for counting out chips, it is your right and you're prerogative to count out your chips. I won't say anything about you holding up the game unless I see the other players getting impatient. At that point, I'll politely offer to help you. I would not, and no dealer should, ever pressure you to hurry up.
I don't see why this should slow down the game. If they don't want to play a hand, why not just deal the next round and deal them out while they count?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYou really think that #1 is hocus-pocus? Has it ever happened to you as a dealer?
Eg, the player has a 5-card 17, you miscount it and call out 16, they hit and bust. They get annoyed and complain to the pit. Now what? I think that a good pit would burn the bust card and let them keep their 17, but this still might cause complaints if that card would have busted the dealer.
I've miscounted hands before, but I've never miscounted it long enough to let a player mis-act on it. That's a lot that has to go wrong. 1) I miscount it, 2) the player miscounts it as well, 3) neither of us notice the mistake until after he has signaled for the hit and I have already brought the card. If I miscount, it gets caught and corrected somewhere between 2 and 3.
In the extremely rare case that it goes all the way down that line, I'd likely call the floor and take the fall before the player even has a chance to complain about it. (Which I would submit is what all dealers should do.) I know some floors would burn that exposed card, but some would allow it to be the next card out.
Quote:I don't see why this should slow down the game. If they don't want to play a hand, why not just deal the next round and deal them out while they count?
I assumed the OP was about people counting their chips between hands, or counting their stack to see if they want to continue or not, or how much they want to bet.
Quote: DeucekiesI've miscounted hands before, but I've never miscounted it long enough to let a player mis-act on it. That's a lot that has to go wrong. 1) I miscount it, 2) the player miscounts it as well, 3) neither of us notice the mistake until after he has signaled for the hit and I have already brought the card. If I miscount, it gets caught and corrected somewhere between 2 and 3.
I think that the problem is that if the dealer is counting out loud, most players don't bother.
Once I caught a dealer error where he miscounted his hand, had scooped up the other player's bet, and was in the process of scooping up mine. The other player's bet ended up being a win, and mine ended up being a push (he was off by 2, on the high side). He was actually quite an experienced dealer, too. It was a 5-card hand, I think.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceOnce I caught a dealer error where he miscounted his hand, had scooped up the other player's bet, and was in the process of scooping up mine. The other player's bet ended up being a win, and mine ended up being a push (he was off by 2, on the high side). He was actually quite an experienced dealer, too. It was a 5-card hand, I think.
Fair enough. It would be wrong to say it never happens. But it doesn't happen very frequently, and there are infinitely better ways to handle it than to institute a sweeping policy that throws customer service out the window.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYou really think that #1 is hocus-pocus? Has it ever happened to you as a dealer?
Eg, the player has a 5-card 17, you miscount it and call out 16, they hit and bust. They get annoyed and complain to the pit. Now what? I think that a good pit would burn the bust card and let them keep their 17, but this still might cause complaints if that card would have busted the dealer.
I don't see why this should slow down the game. If they don't want to play a hand, why not just deal the next round and deal them out while they count?
Interesting one... I'm a dealer, and like Deucekies, i've miscounted a hand many times but have always caught it in time, so this situation has never come up, as far as i can recall. I agree that the the player should be allowed to keep their 17, as in your example. Similar to a ruling i would give on poker, if the player has been given incorrect information by the dealer, they wouldn't be bound to that action. But i could definitely see this causing problems if it meant another player losing the hand. Not sure what the 'by the book' call is on this? I'd assume that the pit would fall back on the rule that it's up to the player to be aware of his bets and hands, but seems unfair.
Quote: allinriverkingYou can count your cheques all you want before a color up. Just don't expect me to hold the game up for you to do so. My players are there to play, not watch someone fumbling with their cheques.
Yeah, agree with this. The player of course has the right to count their chips, but it's not difficult to do whilst the game continues, and then pass them to the dealer when they're done.
4,5,6,7=9,15,22
That's hard.
Quote: onenickelmiracle25,50,75,100,200,300,320
4,5,6,7=9,15,22
That's hard.
I don't know what you're saying here.
Quote: DeucekiesOn the subject of counting out card totals, I do think it's good customer service to call out the totals. It's also a way for me to help novice players with soft hands 17 or less. They're less likely to instinctively stay on their "16" or "17" when I say "six" or "seven". At the very least, they pause.
That said, I have heard stories of cardrooms, mostly small ones, who specifically disallow their dealers from calling out hand totals. This accomplishes two things: 1) it eliminates the chance of a dealer miscalling a hand and misleading a player, possibly giving the player grounds for a misdeal in their eyes, and 2) it increases the likelihood that a player will misplay on their own. Reason 1 is hocus-pocus in my opinion, but I can almost see where they're coming from. Reason 2 is just bush league.
The six/seven 'trick' to help the novice players is nice from a service point of view.
To expand on that (re point 2), most dealer manuals insist that every total is announced.
A house that encourages player mistakes by not following procedure should be avoided by players at all costs.
In reality, a good dealer interprets the hand and the player and makes a decision in each case since announcing every single total would drive people nuts within a few minutes.
Soft hands less than 8/18, 'over the top' soft totals like a 4-A-7, perhaps a 9-5-3 etc. are more likely to need an announcement.
Two cards for 19 on the other hand...there's a place where I didn't have to bother forcing people to listen to me speak yet again unless the player isn't paying attention in order to wave me off in rhythm with the game :)
Dealing requires finesse. The fact that some casinos (and unfortunately a lot of dealers) need to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer regarding that truth makes me haz a sad :)
Quote: allinriverkingYou can count your cheques all you want before a color up. Just don't expect me to hold the game up for you to do so. My players are there to play, not watch someone fumbling with their cheques.
If I need more than a few moments to count down my color up, I'll sit out a round (and announce it) and let y'all keep going.
Of course, if you take too long, don't expect me to come back and color up.
Quote: Scooter77The six/seven 'trick' to help the novice players is nice from a service point of view.
To expand on that (re point 2), most dealer manuals insist that every total is announced.
A house that encourages player mistakes by not following procedure should be avoided by players at all costs.
In reality, a good dealer interprets the hand and the player and makes a decision in each case since announcing every single total would drive people nuts within a few minutes.
Soft hands less than 8/18, 'over the top' soft totals like a 4-A-7, perhaps a 9-5-3 etc. are more likely to need an announcement.
Two cards for 19 on the other hand...there's a place where I didn't have to bother forcing people to listen to me speak yet again unless the player isn't paying attention in order to wave me off in rhythm with the game :)
Dealing requires finesse. The fact that some casinos (and unfortunately a lot of dealers) need to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer regarding that truth makes me haz a sad :)
+1 this whole post, Scooter. Well said.
