Motivation (lack of)
At the risk of providing more fuel for JG to call me a 'crybaby', I am going to vent just a bit and share some results with you. First half of year, blackjack results: +$15,645, compared to $37000+ in expectation. I started the year slow and it never picked up. And from there I have gone downhill in the first 2 weeks of the second half. My blackjack winnings for the year now stand at $6260. A couple more days and I may be in the red. Yikes!
Now to put things in perspective, my earnings the last 2 year have averaged a 100K, with last years 126K (my best BJ year to date), being about 50% above expectation. Now I am a long-term kind of guy. I always think long-term. Any short-term results are just irrelevant, and 6 and a half months of this year is STILL short-term. I can over-analyze and say for the last 18 and a half months, I am almost dead on expectation, or for the last 2 1/2 year, I am still above expectation, but that doesn't help me right now. Right now, I just have a hard time getting motivated. I know that I am not all of the sudden being cheated everywhere I play, nor have I grown really stupid and all of the sudden am a subpar player. It's just part of the game, part of the deal of playing blackjack for a living, and frankly has always been the toughest part for me. I am ok, with losing. Big losing days, losing weeks. It is when the weeks turn into months and I mean 4, 5, 6 subpar months in a row, that it just begins to weigh me down.
I will climb out from under this sometime soon. I will climb back up the mountain. A few days of wins, even small wins, will turn to something significant and before you know, it, I am within reach of expectation. But, not today. Today I lounge and complain. Thanx for listening. :)
You AP casino games full time, which is a lot more stressful than most office jobs. You should feel just as entitled to take a vacation.
If you feel like taking a few days off, no need to worry about that.
Quote: BuzzardMaybe it's time to convert to Speed Count.
My results feel like I already have. Lol.
Quote: sodawaterThis is why vacations are good ideas for people who work full time.
You AP casino games full time, which is a lot more stressful than most office jobs. You should feel just as entitled to take a vacation.
If you feel like taking a few days off, no need to worry about that.
Agreed. If your day job is AP gambling, take time off. There are weekends when I do absolutely nothing except take down time away from the usual norms.
Enjoy your vacation.
Quote: AhighSell $1 or $2 items on E-bay to get motivated in your down time. That's a ton of work for no money at all. It should help put your good fortunate into perspective.
I usually just take a trip to walmart and look at the workers there, and think how I never want to end up one of them.
Quote: socksI usually just take a trip to walmart and look at the workers there, and think how I never want to end up one of them.
Strictly by the numbers (me +6260), Walmart worker's are probably doing better than me. Lol.
Of course. I am only using my blackjack numbers. I do have other non-BJ AP income that will probably hit 20 grand for the year. I also have income from my second house that I am renting out, so I am likely to do better than a Walmart worker, but even so finding someone worse off than myself is not something that would ever lift my spirits.
Quote: kewlj...but even so finding someone worse off than myself is not something that would ever lift my spirits.
I'm looking for motivation not higher spirits.
Quote: djatcI know you talked about training a teammate, are you still doing that?
No. I was training a third partner/teammate, one of my housemates earlier this year, but he decided blackjack wasn't for him and he went back to playing poker. I do have a teammate/partner that I have been partners with not only for blackjack play, but some supplemental AP things for several years now. The results mentioned earlier in this thread, do not include his results or any of our non-BJ results though, just my portion of blackjack play and results.
Yes it's kinda vague (I'm not revealing my plays lol) but you know what I mean.
You mentioned a bit about your yearly income. I understand you put in enough hours per year where most years (if not all) you will make money counting.Quote: kewlj
But this brought up an old thought I had about big bettors who count on weekends or use inferior systems like speed count. Even things like high denomination VP with slight edges, negative play on craps(DI'S) and Baccarat. They certainly some guys don't get in enough hands per year to come out on top or break even every year. But they have to pay taxes each year they win. I understand you can minus losses from wins for the year however, that's a per year cost. Some years they might have big wins where they have to pay a big chunk to the IRS. The next year they have a loss for the year.
There is no way guys like this can have a +EV on small edges if they pay the correct taxes. I noticed a few guys publicly boast about there Blackjack & craps play and other nonsense things and how much they are up but if you add on taxes they cant be up.
Part time counters should figure this into their EV. Especially guys who count and play big only a few times a year.
Have you ever thought about how that could affect a counter. How many hands at what percent one would need to overcome this? I'm not just talking about fair taxes, I'm talking about if one were to have big years and not so good years.
OR...
Take a breather, relax, earn some comps and spend them. Meal comps, movie comps, bowling comps, ... I don't know comps.
Start slurping the free booze as well.
Then get back on the horse.
Quote: AxelWolfYou mentioned a bit about your yearly income. I understand you put in enough hours per year where most years (if not all) you will make money counting.
But this brought up an old thought I had about big bettors who count on weekends or use inferior systems like speed count. Even things like high denomination VP with slight edges, negative play on craps(DI'S) and Baccarat. They certainly some guys don't get in enough hands per year to come out on top or break even every year. But they have to pay taxes each year they win. I understand you can minus losses from wins for the year however, that's a per year cost. Some years they might have big wins where they have to pay a big chunk to the IRS. The next year they have a loss for the year.
There is no way guys like this can have a +EV on small edges if they pay the correct taxes. I noticed a few guys publicly boast about there Blackjack & craps play and other nonsense things and how much they are up but if you add on taxes they cant be up.
Part time counters should figure this into their EV. Especially guys who count and play big only a few times a year.
Have you ever thought about how that could affect a counter. How many hands at what percent one would need to overcome this? I'm not just talking about fair taxes, I'm talking about if one were to have big years and not so good years.
This is why, even though I'm cutting way down on my BJ(you convinced me), I like to maintain a regular job. The more the government thinks I'm just a regular worker the better I feel.
Quote: Lemieux66This is why, even though I'm cutting way down on my BJ(you convinced me), I like to maintain a regular job. The more the government thinks I'm just a regular worker the better I feel.
I agree with this. Many years ago when I was playing high denom low edge slots my stated income was about 10 times my full time salary from my job. I think it definitely set off some red flags. I did get an IRS letter audit for that year.
Quote: DRichI agree with this. Many years ago when I was playing high denom low edge slots my stated income was about 10 times my full time salary from my job. I think it definitely set off some red flags. I did get an IRS letter audit for that year.
Was this as a result of accumulating W-2Gs or simply because of winning?
Quote: AxelWolfYou mentioned a bit about your yearly income. I understand you put in enough hours per year where most years (if not all) you will make money counting.
But this brought up an old thought I had about big bettors who count on weekends or use inferior systems like speed count. Even things like high denomination VP with slight edges, negative play on craps(DI'S) and Baccarat. They certainly some guys don't get in enough hands per year to come out on top or break even every year. But they have to pay taxes each year they win. I understand you can minus losses from wins for the year however, that's a per year cost. Some years they might have big wins where they have to pay a big chunk to the IRS. The next year they have a loss for the year.
There is no way guys like this can have a +EV on small edges if they pay the correct taxes. I noticed a few guys publicly boast about there Blackjack & craps play and other nonsense things and how much they are up but if you add on taxes they cant be up.
Part time counters should figure this into their EV. Especially guys who count and play big only a few times a year.
Have you ever thought about how that could affect a counter. How many hands at what percent one would need to overcome this? I'm not just talking about fair taxes, I'm talking about if one were to have big years and not so good years.
I can't say that I understand what you are getting at in this post, AxelWolf? Seems like you are driving towards the N0 necessary to insure positive results for the year. In my own case, since I play a variety of different blackjack games, with different, decks, rules, penetrations and spreads, I am almost inviting more variance and a higher total N0, in the name of racking up max EV from many different games. I still think my 80,000 rounds per year pushes me towards the strong likelihood of avoiding a losing year, but I could be wrong. (Hoping NOT to Prove myself wrong)
Then you are combining this thought about N0, with players, especially part-time players tax habits. I can't answer that one at all. I don't know if parttime players are paying their fair taxes or not. For a part-time player, even at very high stakes, there is no documentation to speak of for table game wins, maybe a couple CTR's but they are easily explained. For a machine player, there is some documentation in the form of W2-G's but even a couple W2G's @ the $1 level like jackpots of $4000 are easily offset. I would think it would take a hit at the $5 level ($20 grand payout) for it to begin to become an issue.
Quote: arcticfunWas this as a result of accumulating W-2Gs or simply because of winning?
Mainly from the W2G's. I had about 400 that year.
Okay. I understand how you would know it was a high denomination slot, the bright flashing lights saying 100.00 or 500.00 a spin sort of lets the cat out of the bag on that.Quote: DRichMany years ago when I was playing high denom low edge slots...
But how do you know about low edge slots? Particularly if the higher the denomination the less likely it is that Gaming Board data will be released?
Quote: FleaStiffOkay. I understand how you would know it was a high denomination slot, the bright flashing lights saying 100.00 or 500.00 a spin sort of lets the cat out of the bag on that.
But how do you know about low edge slots? Particularly if the higher the denomination the less likely it is that Gaming Board data will be released?
In my case I was referring to high denom slots as $10 video poker ($50 per hand which is high for me). Sorry for the confusion, I tend to think of all machines as slot machines. At least I am not as confusing as those damn Australians, they call all machines poker machines, or Pokies, even though they have almost no video poker and most of their games are what we refer to as penny video slots.
Quote: kewljI can't say that I understand what you are getting at in this post, AxelWolf? Seems like you are driving towards the N0 necessary to insure positive results for the year. In my own case, since I play a variety of different blackjack games, with different, decks, rules, penetrations and spreads, I am almost inviting more variance and a higher total N0, in the name of racking up max EV from many different games. I still think my 80,000 rounds per year pushes me towards the strong likelihood of avoiding a losing year, but I could be wrong. (Hoping NOT to Prove myself wrong)
Then you are combining this thought about N0, with players, especially part-time players tax habits. I can't answer that one at all. I don't know if parttime players are paying their fair taxes or not. For a part-time player, even at very high stakes, there is no documentation to speak of for table game wins, maybe a couple CTR's but they are easily explained. For a machine player, there is some documentation in the form of W2-G's but even a couple W2G's @ the $1 level like jackpots of $4000 are easily offset. I would think it would take a hit at the $5 level ($20 grand payout) for it to begin to become an issue.
I think he is saying that if you do not play enough hours in a calendar year, then the "long term" stretches out over multiple years, so you get winning years and losing years, and so you get screwed on taxes (since your losing years are wasted losses -- they can never be deducted)
For example, say you play a lot and your quarterly results are -$20k, +$25k, +$35k, -$5k. So for the year you are up $35k and owe taxes on $35k.
But if someone plays only recreationally, 1/4 as much as the person who plays a lot, then those numbers are their annual results, and so at the end of 4 years they would have owed taxes on $25k and $35k ($60k total) but their $25k of losses in their two losing years are wasted. So, by spreading the results out over 4 years, they end up paying taxes on $60k of income instead of $35k. If your tax rate is 50%, you are only up $5k after taxes (while the guy who played all in 1 year would have been up $17.5k)
This is an issue for gambling because you cannot carry losses forward, like you can in something like the stock market (capital gains/losses).
Quote: DRichI agree with this. Many years ago when I was playing high denom low edge slots my stated income was about 10 times my full time salary from my job. I think it definitely set off some red flags. I did get an IRS letter audit for that year.
This is going to be my situation this year, for sure (and I'm not even ahead for the year, at least not so far). Other than being honest, etc, do you have any tips? I don't actually owe any additional taxes so I'm not worried about that but I would like to reduce paperwork as much as possible. What was required for the letter audit? Can you give more details on the process?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThis is going to be my situation this year, for sure (and I'm not even ahead for the year, at least not so far). Other than being honest, etc, do you have any tips? I don't actually owe any additional taxes so I'm not worried about that but I would like to reduce paperwork as much as possible. What was required for the letter audit? Can you give more details on the process?
I don't know if my experience was typical, but it was really a smooth process of back and forth just answering questions. If I had to guess I had to answer about 4 or 5 different letters from them with various questions. After that they gave me a finding where they informed me that I owed "x" dollars more than I paid. A few more letters back and forth where I explained that I didn't think I owed "x" more because I could offset losses against wins and we settled at an amount that I owed a little more which was approximately one eighth of "x" that they started with. FYI, the person(s) I was dealing with knew absolutely nothing about gambling.
I think the whole process took about 5 months to complete.
Quote: DRichI don't know if my experience was typical, but it was really a smooth process of back and forth just answering questions. If I had to guess I had to answer about 4 or 5 different letters from them with various questions. After that they gave me a finding where they informed me that I owed "x" dollars more than I paid. A few more letters back and forth where I explained that I didn't think I owed "x" more because I could offset losses against wins and we settled at an amount that I owed a little more which was approximately one eighth of "x" that they started with. FYI, the person(s) I was dealing with knew absolutely nothing about gambling.
I think the whole process took about 5 months to complete.
Can I ask what order of magnitude "x" was, as compared to your regular tax bill? If your W2Gs were 10x your regular income, then ignoring all gambling deductions would still lead to a tax bill of several times your regular income, and 1/8 of that would still be way way too much.
Also, was the 1/8th number that you settled on something that you felt was correct, or did you just agree to it because it was a small number and it wasn't worth fighting any more -- ie, you would rather pay a few hundred extra dollars (or whatever) than write another few letters.
Basically, I'm just wondering if there's anything that I need to watch out for? I have absolutely nothing to hide -- I am completely fine paying all the taxes that I owe; I just don't want to pay any more than that. If you don't mind me asking, were you ahead for the year, and, if so, were you ahead a significant amount (compared to your regular income)
LOL. And here I was feeling guilty about leading the thread off topic.Quote: DRichIn my case I was referring to high denom slots as $10 video poker ($50 per hand which is high for me). Sorry for the confusion, I tend to think of all machines as slot machines. At least I am not as confusing as those damn Australians, they call all machines poker machines, or Pokies, even though they have almost no video poker and most of their games are what we refer to as penny video slots.
It seems not even the casinos can be consistent, particularly with various bonus point schemes. Slot machines in that situation means (not Video Poker) usually.
>50 dollars per hand which is high for me.
High for me too though I'm still confused about "coin through" and "coins-in".
I didn't know how bad it was in Australia but I heard that Pokies includes anything at all that has flashing lights and is rumored to disgorge coins from time to time.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceCan I ask what order of magnitude "x" was, as compared to your regular tax bill? If your W2Gs were 10x your regular income, then ignoring all gambling deductions would still lead to a tax bill of several times your regular income, and 1/8 of that would still be way way too much.
Also, was the 1/8th number that you settled on something that you felt was correct, or did you just agree to it because it was a small number and it wasn't worth fighting any more -- ie, you would rather pay a few hundred extra dollars (or whatever) than write another few letters.
Basically, I'm just wondering if there's anything that I need to watch out for? I have absolutely nothing to hide -- I am completely fine paying all the taxes that I owe; I just don't want to pay any more than that. If you don't mind me asking, were you ahead for the year, and, if so, were you ahead a significant amount (compared to your regular income)
"x" was about 1% to 1.5% of my total declared income. Yes, I argued back and forth on principal until we got close enough that I was willing to just accept closure. The way mine went I wouldn't worry about a letter audit again. Then again, maybe I just got lucky.
I ain't no tax lawyer, but wouldn't this be a situation for loaning your services as a professional gambler to a captive entity? Your income would be taxable salary but the Gambling Entity would be able to smooth its income over a number of tax years and deduct your salary during both lean and successful years?Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThis is an issue for gambling because you cannot carry losses forward, like you can in something like the stock market (capital gains/losses).
Quote: FleaStiffI ain't no tax lawyer, but wouldn't this be a situation for loaning your services as a professional gambler to a captive entity? Your income would be taxable salary but the Gambling Entity would be able to smooth its income over a number of tax years and deduct your salary during both lean and successful years?
You know, I've often wondered about this. A lot of people talk about declaring themselves to be professional gamblers, but that has its own issues (self-employment taxes), and is not an option for those of us with day jobs.
However, could I start a business whose purpose was to bankroll gamblers in exchange for an annual salary, and then be its sole employee (and possibly grow to more employees down the road?)
Quote: AxiomOfChoice
However, could I start a business whose purpose was to bankroll gamblers in exchange for an annual salary, and then be its sole employee (and possibly grow to more employees down the road?)
Yeah, this sounds good, then you could then deduct more expenses as well. :) But this is one of those deals that sounds good in theory, but is much more complicated than that. You end up paying taxes several times on the same money. You pay tax when the business makes money and you pay tax on your salary (which is really the same money). I don't know all the details, but I have a tax guy who specializes in gambling for a living who advised this is definitely not the way to go.
Far too many people in this country have no income, report no income and the IRS doesn't even care about them and would never audit them. The government doesn't even report those who have fallen out of the workforce after running out of UC benefits in the monthly unemployment numbers anymore and considers them as no longer looking for work. Now if you report high mortgage interest and other deductions that make no sense for your reported income, you will draw attention. Also Gaming winnings in 1099's and such will draw attention without supporting documentation. But for non reported table game play, too may people are putting ethics and common decency above facts.
That said, reporting all your income is expected of you by the government and your fellow citizens...including that $55 you earned at your yard sale. And when you are the one chosen for an audit, all is out the window and you better be prepared.
Quote: kewljYeah, this sounds good, then you could then deduct more expenses as well. :) But this is one of those deals that sounds good in theory, but is much more complicated than that. You end up paying taxes several times on the same money. You pay tax when the business makes money and you pay tax on your salary (which is really the same money). I don't know all the details, but I have a tax guy who specializes in gambling for a living who advised this is definitely not the way to go.
What if the business never made a profit?
Scenario A: winning year. Employees get an end-of-year bonus and the sum of all bonuses equals any excess business income. Employees get taxed only a single time, on their salary + bonus. Business made no profit, so no tax.
Scenario B: losing year. Employees get paid a salary, but there is no bonus. The business gets to use the loss as a net operating loss carryforward and apply it against future taxable income.
Or maybe I failed at accounting 101?
Quote: BozI'm no tax lawyer and to each his own, but I think you guys fear the IRS far more than you should. Putting yourself out there as a Professional Gambler creates problems you probably don't need. The IRS doesn't know as much as you think, but uses information you provide to them to then create a profile that then may create a situation where you deserve higher observation.
Far too many people in this country have no income, report no income and the IRS doesn't even care about them and would never audit them. The government doesn't even report those who have fallen out of the workforce after running out of UC benefits in the monthly unemployment numbers anymore and considers them as no longer looking for work. Now if you report high mortgage interest and other deductions that make no sense for your reported income, you will draw attention. Also Gaming winnings in 1099's and such will draw attention without supporting documentation. But for non reported table game play, too may people are putting ethics and common decency above facts.
That said, reporting all your income is expected of you by the government and your fellow citizens...including that $55 you earned at your yard sale. And when you are the one chosen for an audit, all is out the window and you better be prepared.
We are talking about completely different things.
You are talking about evading income taxes, which is a felony. I have no interest in that, because I am not a criminal.
I am talking about paying all the taxes that I owe, but organizing things in a way that will allow me to do so with as little hassle as possible, and not get myself into a situation where the IRS claims that I owe more than I actually do.
Remember that the $55 you earned at a yard sale is not all taxable. At worst it's a capital gain. More likely, you sold the items at a loss and owe nothing.
Quote: DRich"x" was about 1% to 1.5% of my total declared income. Yes, I argued back and forth on principal until we got close enough that I was willing to just accept closure. The way mine went I wouldn't worry about a letter audit again. Then again, maybe I just got lucky.
I think that is amazing that they just "settle". If they audit you and you owe then you owe and should pay. I am not saying that you shouldn't settle, I am saying that it is messed up that the government settles instead of collecting what should be due. From your encounter it seems like they act like a debt collector instead of a tax agency in that they are happy to get anything.
Quote: GWAEI think that is amazing that they just "settle". If they audit you and you owe then you owe and should pay. I am not saying that you shouldn't settle, I am saying that it is messed up that the government settles instead of collecting what should be due. From your encounter it seems like they act like a debt collector instead of a tax agency in that they are happy to get anything.
Actually from what he is saying, it sounds like it is the other way around. He owed nothing, and they claimed that he did. Eventually he agreed to pay 1/8 of the amount in order to save some time.
In other words, he ended up paying too much, not too little. He got screwed over by the government (admittedly, for a relatively small amount of money) because they have unlimited time and resources to keep sending letters and he doesn't.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceActually from what he is saying, it sounds like it is the other way around. He owed nothing, and they claimed that he did. Eventually he agreed to pay 1/8 of the amount in order to save some time.
In other words, he ended up paying too much, not too little. He got screwed over by the government (admittedly, for a relatively small amount of money) because they have unlimited time and resources to keep sending letters and he doesn't.
Basically yes, except they did convince me that I did owe a little more because some realized income they showed moved me to a slightly higher tax bracket for a small portion of my income. I may have been able to convince them that they were still off by a couple hundred dollars, but every day that case was open there was the potential they could turn it into a full audit. Paying a little extra to avoid that hassle was money well spent in my opinion.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWe are talking about completely different things.
You are talking about evading income taxes, which is a felony. I have no interest in that, because I am not a criminal.
I am talking about paying all the taxes that I owe, but organizing things in a way that will allow me to do so with as little hassle as possible, and not get myself into a situation where the IRS claims that I owe more than I actually do.
Remember that the $55 you earned at a yard sale is not all taxable. At worst it's a capital gain. More likely, you sold the items at a loss and owe nothing.
You may be right on the yard sale, just make sure you file the proper schedules to justify the gain/ loss on items sold. Which just shows how screwed up the system is. And if you don't file the proper form, you may well be a criminal in the IRS's mind.
Quote: BozYou may be right on the yard sale, just make sure you file the proper schedules to justify the gain/ loss on items sold. Which just shows how screwed up the system is. And if you don't file the proper form, you may well be a criminal in the IRS's mind.
Naah, the things that are crimes are all pretty reasonable. If you make a mistake on your return, no big deal, either you correct it or they do, and you pay any extra money you owe, or get any money back that you have coming to you. There are no penalties involved.
The things that are crimes are outright lying, and intentionally attempting to defraud them. Like, telling them that you have gambling losses that don't really exist, or failing to report income.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceActually from what he is saying, it sounds like it is the other way around. He owed nothing, and they claimed that he did. Eventually he agreed to pay 1/8 of the amount in order to save some time.
In other words, he ended up paying too much, not too little. He got screwed over by the government (admittedly, for a relatively small amount of money) because they have unlimited time and resources to keep sending letters and he doesn't.
I am going based on their conclusion that he owes money. They really think he owes yet they are willing to settle for 1/8 of the amount that he owes. Either they basically know that they are wrong and they are defrauding him or they are right and they are screwing the tax payer. I am not sure how I feel about the government just giving up on money owed. Maybe they have a calculation that they use and if it is under a certain amount then it is not worth the time since paying the people would cost them more than what would be collected.
Quote: GWAEEither they basically know that they are wrong and they are defrauding him or they are right and they are screwing the tax payer.
No, that assumes that they are infallible. There are also possibilities where they are wrong but they don't know it.
What it sounds like happened here is, they initially thought that he owed x. After he sent them some letters explaining their errors they realized that they were wrong and now they think that he only owes x/8. They are still wrong (he actually owes less) but the difference between what they think he owes and what he actually owes is small enough that he just pays x/8 in order to save some time -- basically, paying a little bit extra for some convenience.
At no point did they ever agree to take less money than they thought they were owed. They will sometimes do this, but it usually requires some financial hardship, or some lack of clarity on what's actually owed (ie, unsettled law)
Remember that these people make mistakes just like everyone else.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceNo, that assumes that they are infallible. There are also possibilities where they are wrong but they don't know it.
What it sounds like happened here is, they initially thought that he owed x. After he sent them some letters explaining their errors they realized that they were wrong and now they think that he only owes x/8. They are still wrong (he actually owes less) but the difference between what they think he owes and what he actually owes is small enough that he just pays x/8 in order to save some time -- basically, paying a little bit extra for some convenience.
At no point did they ever agree to take less money than they thought they were owed. They will sometimes do this, but it usually requires some financial hardship, or some lack of clarity on what's actually owed (ie, unsettled law)
Remember that these people make mistakes just like everyone else.
I guess I read an earlier post wrong. I took it as they made a concession and just took less as a settlement.
Quote: AxiomOfChoice
The things that are crimes are outright lying, and intentionally attempting to defraud them. Like, telling them that you have gambling losses that don't really exist, or failing to report income.
I have never tracked to the penny my wins and losses but I have a good idea what my couple of trips to Vegas each year yield - usually a small negative or positive so I have not dealt with taxes in this realm... so obviously there is a huge honor system component to reporting gambling to the IRS, so what about the player who hits a $1500 slot bonus but wants to offset it with a $1500 table loss from a trip 3 months back (same year) and that table loss has no record... I'm assuming you'd be screwed and have to pay on the $1500 slot win?
Quote: andyg99I have never tracked to the penny my wins and losses but I have a good idea what my couple of trips to Vegas each year yield - usually a small negative or positive so I have not dealt with taxes in this realm... so obviously there is a huge honor system component to reporting gambling to the IRS, so what about the player who hits a $1500 slot bonus but wants to offset it with a $1500 table loss from a trip 3 months back (same year) and that table loss has no record... I'm assuming you'd be screwed and have to pay on the $1500 slot win?
technically when you are documenting your table play you are supposed to track the date, time, table number, and even dealers name. If you have all of that info the IRS should not have a problem with it. Obviously you could just make it up but if the IRS agent were to call the casino and they denied any of the details it could screw you.
Quote: GWAEtechnically when you are documenting your table play you are supposed to track the date, time, table number, and even dealers name. If you have all of that info the IRS should not have a problem with it. Obviously you could just make it up but if the IRS agent were to call the casino and they denied any of the details it could screw you.
Can't you just lie if you did all this and say you lost?
of course this is based on the assumption that the lost revenue from folks paying taxes on winnings is more than made up by the increased taxes that casinos pay on their higher revenues....
Quote: andyg99it's too bad that our elected leaders are too stupid to realize that not taxing gambling winnings would be a win/win/win situation. The player obviously wins - win#1, the Casino should get more players (losers) and increase their revenue - win#2, the IRS gets more tax money from the casinos - win#3....
of course this is based on the assumption that the lost revenue from folks paying taxes on winnings is more than made up by the increased taxes that casinos pay on their higher revenues....
I am more worried about the day when they start automatically withholding money from all slot machine wins.
