Face
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June 25th, 2014 at 11:47:08 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

There is nothing tyrannical about me wanting to keep my children safe be keeping guns off the streets.



I agree with that. Of course, that wasn't my argument.

Quote: Canyonero

If a majority in a democratic country feel this way, it is our democratic right to "ban" guns as a society. We turn to our elected leaders to get that done.



Agree with this as well. But what part of using the political weapon of a "message of necessity" to override the State Constitution's law of having all bills age for 3 days before being debated, rush through the proceedings at midnight and within hours, with no hearings, no testimony, no time for opponents to make a case to their legislators, with no public knowledge of its implementation or its hearing, for a bill that deals with .002% of the actual problems and has the pesky side effect of making millions of law abiding citizens, and indeed on-duty police officers, felons overnight?

Is this what you expect when you turn to your elected leaders? Is this looked at as "good" in Canyon country? Because the issue of guns is a hell of lot less important than the actions of these so-called "leaders", in my opinion. Either that, or my idea of a democratic republic got really messed up somewhere along the way.
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Canyonero
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June 25th, 2014 at 12:17:59 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I agree with that. Of course, that wasn't my argument.



Agree with this as well. But what part of using the political weapon of a "message of necessity" to override the State Constitution's law of having all bills age for 3 days before being debated, rush through the proceedings at midnight and within hours, with no hearings, no testimony, no time for opponents to make a case to their legislators, with no public knowledge of its implementation or its hearing, for a bill that deals with .002% of the actual problems and has the pesky side effect of making millions of law abiding citizens, and indeed on-duty police officers, felons overnight?

Is this what you expect when you turn to your elected leaders? Is this looked at as "good" in Canyon country? Because the issue of guns is a hell of lot less important than the actions of these so-called "leaders", in my opinion. Either that, or my idea of a democratic republic got really messed up somewhere along the way.



That is definitely bad governance and undemocratic. I have no idea what you are talking about though.
Nareed
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June 25th, 2014 at 12:19:38 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

If a majority in a democratic country feel this way, it is our democratic right to "ban" guns as a society. We turn to our elected leaders to get that done.



Not so. Unlimited majority rule is tyrany in itself. If a majority felt like imposing its religion on everyone else, that would be wrong even if the vote were 99.999999% vs 0.000000000000000001%


Quote:

Her comes the tyrannical part: A vast majority of Americans want stricter gun regulations. A tyrannical tiny minority has corrupted our elected officials and is imposing their will on this vast majority by means of corruption.



Read above.

America is a constitutional republic. Rights recognized and guaranteed by the constitution are above the power of any legislation or majority to overturn.

From a purely practical standpoint, you're making the same mistake as the opponents of immigration. You can neither remove any significant numbers of existing guns (not without extremely repressive, police-state measures), nor prevent further gun and ammo sales in any meaningful way.

On the first point, there are so many guns already in the hands of many people. Lawfully so, I may add. If you want to reduce that number by as little as one tenth, you'd have to send police to forcibly seize them from people reluctant to give them up. People, BTW, who are armed.

On the second point, the more you succeed in making the sale or purchase of guns illegal, the more people will turn to the black market to get them. Think of all the consequences this implies.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Canyonero
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June 25th, 2014 at 4:03:33 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Not so. Unlimited majority rule is tyrany in itself. If a majority felt like imposing its religion on everyone else, that would be wrong even if the vote were 99.999999% vs 0.000000000000000001%




Read above.

America is a constitutional republic. Rights recognized and guaranteed by the constitution are above the power of any legislation or majority to overturn.

From a purely practical standpoint, you're making the same mistake as the opponents of immigration. You can neither remove any significant numbers of existing guns (not without extremely repressive, police-state measures), nor prevent further gun and ammo sales in any meaningful way.

On the first point, there are so many guns already in the hands of many people. Lawfully so, I may add. If you want to reduce that number by as little as one tenth, you'd have to send police to forcibly seize them from people reluctant to give them up. People, BTW, who are armed.

On the second point, the more you succeed in making the sale or purchase of guns illegal, the more people will turn to the black market to get them. Think of all the consequences this implies.




Now this is turning into a discussion that only recognizes extremes. Gun control doesn't contradict the second amendment. It is not either - or. The two concepts are not mutually excluisve. They coexist right now. The second amendment is guaranteed, yes, unchecked assault rifles for everybody are not.

Protection of minorities is a vital part of any democracy. But you wrongly equate freedom of religion with freedom from gun regulation. The former is a basic human right, the latter is not. At least I believe this is the broad consensus in the western hemisphere. You might disagree.
Face
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June 25th, 2014 at 8:13:10 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

That is definitely bad governance and undemocratic. I have no idea what you are talking about though.



/sigh. I find that unfortunate and deeply disturbing. Perhaps if it were some podunk county in the hills of Maine, I could understand. But it's NY. The entire state. And it's been going on for nearly a year.

When county 5-0 are threatening the State boys with armed conflict, things might be a little off. When the county Sheriff, not one of the Sheriffs, but the county Sheriff, of the biggest county outside of downstate, tells the governor to shove it and refuses to even consider enforcing his unconstitutional hogwash, things might be a little off. When the entire "airplane" part of the state is opposed, and only the rotten little appendix is "for", and the law still can't be fully repealed, yeah. Things have gone terribly wrong.

So be anti. I'm fine with it. Some of my personal friends are, even. Here, boymimbo takes the anti side always, and I argue with him always, and I'm as cool with him as ever. But be an anti with open eyes. Realize what's going on behind this facade of "protection", of "safety". Before you cast a vote against our Constitution, understand what it is exactly that you're supporting.

Autocratic. Dictatorial. Totalitarian. Tyrannical. These are not words I would use to literally describe NYS. I'm not a crackpot. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that today's governing body doesn't share some traits of each. And I don't care if it's guns, gays, online gaming, tax reform, or anything, or whether the decision fell perfectly in your favor or not. Everyone needs to resist actions like this, without exception, and without delay.
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Greasyjohn
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June 26th, 2014 at 10:58:22 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I think there's a common condition, whether the mental illness lasts 30 seconds or a lifetime, to all shootings; some combination of rage and despair. We build a society conducive to both with the degradation of manners and common sense, when we only pay attention to extreme drama and not everyday actions, and when we celebrate bad behavior with media storms discussing evil actions. We encourage dependency, self-dissatisfaction, shallow values of fame and monetary wealth, hero-worship of unworthy celebrities, and constant distraction from common values in the effort to attract and entertain an ever-more restless population. Is it any wonder when no one is ever good enough, thin enough, rich enough, esteemed for their contributions without being undercut with spun criticism, that there's so much rage and frustration in the population?

People just want to be accepted, to be part of a community, to be productive, to have friends, family, to live their life with some purpose. Almost everything culturally has changed to prevent that simple path to a happy life. Those that live it, in my experience, do so by ignoring popular media and criticism from around them, more now than ever before. Those that lose it seem to me to be overly vulnerable to that noise.



Your thoughts are profound.

Regarding the fact that a lack of common sense, morality and decency has fostered a deteriorating society I offer a few small examples:

There was a Capitol One credit card commercial on TV where Samuel L. Jackson is the pitchman. He states in the commercial that you earn 1.5% cash back “every damn day”. And he says that emphatically. I called up Capitol One and got in touch with a lady who could take my complaint. When I told her my call was about their TV commercial she said, “Is it about the language used in the commercial?” They had already gotten complaints about this. I told her that the way the pitchman says “every damn day” is just about like he’s saying “every God damn day.” I said that it’s not right for a credit card company to use such language in their commercial. You know what? They changed their commercial. The pitchman isn’t as emphatic and the word “damn” is not spoken.

A1 Steak Sauce has a commercial on TV right now where a narrator says that this guy at a barbeque likes “she said” jokes. I can’t remember how they lead up to this in the commercial and it really isn’t important. So the guy walks up to a picnic table with one guy and two girls sitting at it and says, “That’s what she said.” One of the girls at the table laughs a kind of embarrassed laugh.

I called Kraft Foods, the makers of A1, and complained about their commercial. I told the representative that I rock climb. If someone asks about a route, whether it’s difficult or not, and someone else says, “No, it’s not hard.” then someone might say, “That’s what she said.” The representative said she knew what “she said" jokes were before I gave my example, but I wanted her to hear the words and maybe it would sink in. She said she’d relay my concerns to the proper manager. But I’m going to call back and find out how I can e-mail my concerns to them. Kraft Foods should not be using the hook of crude sexual innuendo to sell their product.

There is a Citibank near where I live. It is located on a very busy intersection where thousands of cars pass through each day. On the side of the building is a large clock that had been broken for weeks and displayed 4:20 perpetually. I contacted their main office in New York City to register my complaint. I told the representative that it is not right to have a broken clock giving wrong information to thousands of travelers each day. I said that people traveling through the intersection a half hour before or after 4:20 would think they were late or early going to their destinations. I said that 50 years ago you would never see this; businesses had civic pride and would never have a large clock on their building that was allowed to remain broken. I said that if they didn’t want to fix it they should remove it. The clock was huge and could only be repaired by this company in Europe. The representative did not rush me and listened to my concerns. She said that my concerns would be addressed and that action would be taken. Within a few weeks the clock was replaced with a digital clock that displays both time and temperature.

The deterioration of our culture happens over time, like water seeping into its foundation.
TerribleTom
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June 26th, 2014 at 11:07:25 AM permalink
There were no good old days. Police brutality in the 1950s was significantly worse than it is today. Racial violence was worse than it is today. Criminals were still criminals and there were just as many of them (or more) than there are today. Children were still molested, women raped, homeless people assaulted - quite probably in greater numbers than today.

The difference is media. A hobo getting beat within an inch of his life didn't even make the papers in 1905. Today it's national news.

Police would beat a vagrant and just drop him off at the county line with instructions to keep moving.

Women did not report rape nearly as often, when they did it was investigated less often, and when investigated it was prosecuted less often. Guess what? When prosecuted it was convicted less often.

Child molestation was too horrific to talk about, so it went unchecked most of the time.

Corruption in politics and law enforcement was higher than today, so many criminals simply paid the police or their political bosses for protection from harassment.

If you think that 1900 was some kind of moral panacea, you're mistaken. No such place has ever existed.
Nareed
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June 26th, 2014 at 11:46:58 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Now this is turning into a discussion that only recognizes extremes. Gun control doesn't contradict the second amendment.



How else would you achieve the stated goal of keeping gund off the streets.

Mexico has very strict gun regulations. There are no gun stores, for example. If you want to buy a gun, you must first request permission from the department of Defense (really), and if granted you buy your gun and ammunition from them as well. There is a limited number of models to choose from and prices are non-negotiable.

Something like a handgun can only be kept at your home or your office. You cannot carry it anywhere, even unloaded. If you want to do practice shooting ata gun range, you must first join a gun club, then obtain permission from the dept. of Defense to transport the gun from point A to point B exclusively. Naturally the gun must be unloaded at all times during transport.

You cannot get a permission to carry a loaded gun on you.

Of course this does absolutely nothing to keep guns off the streets. Criminals, by definition, ar epeople who break the law. Someone intent on murder won't give much thought to also rbeaking the regulations regarding guns.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Greasyjohn
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June 26th, 2014 at 12:23:04 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

There were no good old days. Police brutality in the 1950s was significantly worse than it is today. Racial violence was worse than it is today. Criminals were still criminals and there were just as many of them (or more) than there are today. Children were still molested, women raped, homeless people assaulted - quite probably in greater numbers than today.

The difference is media. A hobo getting beat within an inch of his life didn't even make the papers in 1905. Today it's national news.

Police would beat a vagrant and just drop him off at the county line with instructions to keep moving.

Women did not report rape nearly as often, when they did it was investigated less often, and when investigated it was prosecuted less often. Guess what? When prosecuted it was convicted less often.

Child molestation was too horrific to talk about, so it went unchecked most of the time.

Corruption in politics and law enforcement was higher than today, so many criminals simply paid the police or their political bosses for protection from harassment.

If you think that 1900 was some kind of moral panacea, you're mistaken. No such place has ever existed.



You make some valid and lucid points. But I still think that overall we’re going down hill.
TerribleTom
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June 26th, 2014 at 12:34:43 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

You make some valid and lucid points. But I still think that overall we’re going down hill.



Every old man since Adam has bemoaned the decaying social values of the young.

Plato was a huge whiner, he viewed all of history as nothing but a long road of social decay.

To be fair, I'm guilty of it too. Damned whippersnappers!
Greasyjohn
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June 26th, 2014 at 12:59:16 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

Every old man since Adam has bemoaned the decaying social values of the young.

Plato was a huge whiner, he viewed all of history as nothing but a long road of social decay.

To be fair, I'm guilty of it too. Damned whippersnappers!



Maury Povich, Jerry Springer and Howard Stern are young? :)
FleaStiff
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June 26th, 2014 at 1:04:46 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

The difference is media.

How So?

> A hobo getting beat within an inch of his life didn't even make the papers in 1905. Today it's national news.
Hobos who had a housewife set a dog on them or a farmer who fired a shotgun or something would be "chalked up". That was the day's media. A housewife who came out with a Peck sack of extras after having given a hobo a Square or a Three-Corner would also get chalked up. That was the media of the day. Good and Bad. But the story was told.

>Women did not report rape nearly as often, when they did it was investigated less often, and when investigated,
>it was prosecuted less often. Guess what? When prosecuted it was convicted less often.
And if confined to upscale neighborhoods a rapist would rarely get written up. Wives kept quiet but if they didn't there was no need for a police report. There was only need for a description. It would be taken care of or not. Until the Women's Lib movement, a rape in NYC's East Village did not get any police paperwork unless it was accompanied by torture or mutilation. Runaway females go to cities because rapes in small towns would involve half the high school males. A girl of 12 who was pregnant had not been raped and if she was Irish girl she could be eleven and pregnant and she had not been raped. Many brought those values to America, where the age of consent for much of our history was eleven and then sixteen. And if the only factory in town had a sign reading "No Irish Need Apply", you can bet the ages for Irish girls was even lower than what the laws officially proclaimed. Often the primary stay of power of the Catholic church was that Catholic charities influenced the availability of Irish girls.

>Child molestation was too horrific to talk about, so it went unchecked most of the time.
True. People respected the family institution and were expected to bear and solve their own problems within it.
It was not considered improper for a father to make use of a daughter if he lost the availability of his wife.
To this day in Alaska it is quite obvious that some villages have ghostlike strangers that repeatedly impregnate a man's daughters but are never seen by anyone else in the village. Police and Prosecutors soon learn to mind their own business in some areas.

> No such place has ever existed.
Often such "places" and "times" have existed, they've just never been quite so pure as we thought.
Look to alcohol production and consumption in this country. It took a decade of prohibition to shake out an industry of 1700 producers into one of seven producers.

Crude sexual allusions in advertising? All advertising is sexual innuendo or overt sexual appeal.

Capital one... wow, complaints about their language but not at all about misleading advertising or predatory pricing or fraudulent nondisclosures.... just their language. Now how absurd is that?
TerribleTom
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June 26th, 2014 at 1:18:30 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Maury Povich, Jerry Springer and Howard Stern are young? :)



If those three are your barometer of social values you've got bigger problems than we're going to resolve here.

Those three old men are capitalizing on sensationalism and schadenfreude, nothing more, nothing less.

ETA - FleaStiff, were you disagreeing with me? Because it seems to me like you just reinforced every point I made.
Greasyjohn
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June 26th, 2014 at 3:07:37 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

If those three are your barometer of social values you've got bigger problems than we're going to resolve here.

Those three old men are capitalizing on sensationalism and schadenfreude, nothing more, nothing less.

ETA - FleaStiff, were you disagreeing with me? Because it seems to me like you just reinforced every point I made.



I didn't see where you had asked for me to name three people that are a barometer of social values.
TerribleTom
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June 26th, 2014 at 3:42:22 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I didn't see where you had asked for me to name three people that are a barometer of social values.



You did not, but you did use them as examples of social decay. They're good examples of what's wrong with American society, no doubt about it, but they're far from indicative of societal norms in general.

They're also, as you pointed out, not exactly young men. They're old men (Stern's not that old - 60) and the older two make their money cranking up outrage (feigned outrage is best outrage ;-) ) over the behavior of others who are generally younger than themselves if not outright young people. Stern makes his money trying to offend sensible people in the name of humor.

No three people could be cast as examples of social decay with any degree of accuracy. In no small part because social decay itself is a fallacy. Society may change, and that change will almost always be decried as decay by the older members of society, but unless you get into a genuine dark ages type situation the notion of social decay is simply inaccurate.
Dalex64
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June 26th, 2014 at 4:46:30 PM permalink
Apparently the popularity of soccer can be used as a barometer of moral decay.

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html
Buzzard
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June 26th, 2014 at 4:51:38 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

Apparently the popularity of soccer can be used as a barometer of moral decay.

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html





gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 27th, 2014 at 12:20:39 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

There were no good old days. Police brutality in the 1950s was significantly worse than it is today. Racial violence was worse than it is today. Criminals were still criminals and there were just as many of them (or more) than there are today. Children were still molested, women raped, homeless people assaulted - quite probably in greater numbers than today.

The difference is media. A hobo getting beat within an inch of his life didn't even make the papers in 1905. Today it's national news.

Police would beat a vagrant and just drop him off at the county line with instructions to keep moving.

Women did not report rape nearly as often, when they did it was investigated less often, and when investigated it was prosecuted less often. Guess what? When prosecuted it was convicted less often.

Child molestation was too horrific to talk about, so it went unchecked most of the time.

Corruption in politics and law enforcement was higher than today, so many criminals simply paid the police or their political bosses for protection from harassment.

If you think that 1900 was some kind of moral panacea, you're mistaken. No such place has ever existed.



But I still think that overall we’re going down hill. 100 years ago kids did not talk back to their parents, they didn't take guns to school and shoot other students. And corporal punishment in schools was legal. We should bring it back. A good swat or two on the butt with a wood paddle would take the smirk off young faces. Many kids today think their parents are hopelessly out of touch and are embarrassed by them. Parents were more respected 100 years ago and demanded that respect. Our culture then focused on adults. Now our culture is based on the desires, spending power and whims of our youth.

Now, you can go into fast food restaurants where people have asked for water cups, then they go to the beverage bar and get a free soft drink. There is no shame, and management says nothing. 50 years ago the cup would have been picked up promptly by an employee or management and the person asked to leave or been detained until the police arrived. And when you called the police they answered the phone. Of course 50 years ago we didn't have all-you-can-drink beverage bars. Small insignificant point you say? It all adds up.

And while I'm at it, let's get rid of multi-lingual ballots and such. Learn English, save a tree. Forced assimilation. No more press #1 for English. If you don't want to learn English then that's too bad. I know, this is all part of my "wishful nostalgia."
darthxaos
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June 27th, 2014 at 12:36:16 PM permalink
There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three.
Greasyjohn
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June 27th, 2014 at 12:46:28 PM permalink
Quote: darthxaos

There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three.



What is your point, and how is it relevant to this thread?
andyg99
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June 27th, 2014 at 12:57:55 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

There is nothing tyrannical about me wanting to keep my children safe be keeping guns off the streets. If a majority in a democratic country feel this way, it is our democratic right to "ban" guns as a society. We turn to our elected leaders to get that done.
.



'majority rules' is not the law of the land... the constitution says I can own a gun, some politicians tell me I don't need a magazine with 10 bullets to kill a deer, I'd like that option to take care of a home intruder though... anyway I have never owned a gun and I think that making them illegal will not stop the killings - most murders in the inner cities are the result of gang shootings with an illegal gun.

As a representative republic we can elect leaders who pledge to amend the constitution if the majority does indeed want change... I don't ever see the constitution changing for any reason in my lifetime based on the fools we elect who couldn't even agree on what time of day it was...
Greasyjohn
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June 27th, 2014 at 7:36:41 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

What is your point, and how is it relevant to this thread?



Maybe this is a reference to the fact that in 1911 Hawaii, Alaska and Arizona were not states. I'm guessing since my question was never answered.
Buzzard
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June 27th, 2014 at 9:19:02 PM permalink
60 years ago a black man could not get a cup.for water. Nor drink out of the whites only water fountain.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 7:07:44 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

60 years ago a black man could not get a cup.for water. Nor drink out of the whites only water fountain.



True, but back then we didn't have songs like "Cop Killer". Look at the crowd scenes at the I've Got A Dream speech. People were dressed in good taste and nobody wore their pants below their butts.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 7:34:08 AM permalink
Yeah, it was a great time. If you were a straight white male. Yeah, all the people in that crowd were so happy with their life. Mickey drinks, what's your excuse?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 7:45:55 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Yeah, it was a great time. If you were a straight white male. Yeah, all the people in that crowd were so happy with their life. Mickey drinks, what's your excuse?



It sounds like you've been drinking.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 8:16:02 AM permalink
Bet you walked 3 miles to school as a boy. And it was uphill both ways.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 8:40:44 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Bet you walked 3 miles to school as a boy. And it was uphill both ways.



Are you working up to your fourth offense?
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 8:44:42 AM permalink
No. Just want readers to know all old men do not think the good old days were when blacks and minorities were not uppity. !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 9:03:52 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

No. Just want readers to know all old men do not think the good old days were when blacks and minorities were not uppity. !



I can't recall mentioning blacks or minorities at all in this thread, except I did respond to your comment about how 60 years ago blacks couldn't drink from white drinking fountains. Where did I express or imply that the good old days were when blacks and minorities were not uppity?
darthxaos
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June 28th, 2014 at 9:34:48 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

What is your point, and how is it relevant to this thread?





For those who didn't immediately identify the quote.

>not having everything from The Simpsons first 9 seasons memorized
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 9:38:43 AM permalink
Quote: darthxaos



Not sure what your two contributions mean. Just come right out and say it.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 9:44:41 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

True, but back then we didn't have songs like "Cop Killer". Look at the crowd scenes at the I've Got A Dream speech. People were dressed in good taste and nobody wore their pants below their butts.



Yeah, look at that crowd. All well dressed. That's your memory of that speech. Ahh, the good old days. Fact is nothing really changed until the riots.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
TerribleTom
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June 28th, 2014 at 10:58:15 AM permalink
Some folks blame it on spellcheck.
bobsims
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June 28th, 2014 at 1:26:05 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

There is nothing tyrannical about me wanting to keep my children safe be keeping guns off the streets. If a majority in a democratic country feel this way, it is our democratic right to "ban" guns as a society. We turn to our elected leaders to get that done.

Her comes the tyrannical part: A vast majority of Americans want stricter gun regulations. A tyrannical tiny minority has corrupted our elected officials and is imposing their will on this vast majority by means of corruption.



Twice as many guns as 20 years ago. Millions upon millions more (fake) "assault weapons". And the result? The murder rate is half what it was 20 years ago.
To the nutjob Left facts are "hate speech. The real violent crime problem is of course the blacks and Mexicans who commit about 90% of street crime. Ask "progressives" for their solution? Keep the border wide open. Brilliant.

Like when Reagan lowered taxes on the hated "rich" and the "geniuses" of the Left predicted revenue collapse and the end of the middle class. Of course what really happened was 25 straight years of middle-class affluence and exponentially higher revenues. Under trickle-up Nobama taxes are now over 60% higher on the rich-40% income taxes, 4% Medicare and Obamacare taxes for a federal total of 44% plus states like Mexifornia with double digit income taxes-and the result is a stagnant, Carteristic economy where the middle class is being crushed.

Being a "progressive" means never learning your lesson.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 2:08:23 PM permalink
" The real violent crime problem is of course the blacks and Mexicans who commit about 90% of street crime. "

You have all the answers, but none of the solutions. There is a spot reserved for you on DT.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Canyonero
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June 28th, 2014 at 2:27:13 PM permalink
Hey bobsims, have I ever seen you make a gambling related post? If you are just here to spew your "hate speech" (at least you got that right) and twisted "facts", get a Youtube account instead. Get lost.
FleaStiff
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June 28th, 2014 at 3:21:56 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

60 years ago a black man could not get a cup.for water. Nor drink out of the whites only water fountain.

In some areas. With certain changes as black soldiers were shipped thru the South and some of them didn't know the rules about water fountains or looking at white women.
Dicenor33
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June 28th, 2014 at 3:46:01 PM permalink
Post Microsoft era turns out to be extremely violent. It's Mom and Pop shops allowed middle class to succeed. Working poor, which is how middle class should be called, is a breeding ground for crime.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 3:59:32 PM permalink
Harry Truman caught hell for integrating the military. Quite a guy that Harry was.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 4:36:34 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Yeah, look at that crowd. All well dressed. That's your memory of that speech. Ahh, the good old days. Fact is nothing really changed until the riots.



So, you did not reply to my question. You made a pretty wild accusation about me that you could not support.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 4:41:39 PM permalink
I give up John. What was your question ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 4:47:51 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

I give up John. What was your question ?



Quote: Buzzard
No. Just want readers to know all old men do not think the good old days were when blacks and minorities were not uppity. !


I can't recall mentioning blacks or minorities at all in this thread, except I did respond to your comment about how 60 years ago blacks couldn't drink from white drinking fountains. Where did I express or imply that the good old days were when blacks and minorities were not uppity?
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:10:03 PM permalink
" I can't recall mentioning blacks or minorities at all in this thread "

" Look at the crowd scenes at the I've Got A Dream speech. People were dressed in good taste and nobody wore their pants below their butts. "

Were you talking about white folks in that crowd ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:18:18 PM permalink
" I will remain gratefully to my dying day that I was saved from participating in gay sex. " ROFLMAO

My nomination for the most ignorant post on this forum.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:38:58 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" I can't recall mentioning blacks or minorities at all in this thread "

" Look at the crowd scenes at the I've Got A Dream speech. People were dressed in good taste and nobody wore their pants below their butts. "

Were you talking about white folks in that crowd ?



So my statement and your question means that I long for the good old days when blacks and minorities weren't uppity?
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:41:58 PM permalink
Aw come on we're all friends here. You can trust me. You would love to go back to the good old days of 50 years ago.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Greasyjohn
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:46:43 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" I will remain gratefully to my dying day that I was saved from participating in gay sex. " ROFLMAO

My nomination for the most ignorant post on this forum.



So you can't support your wild accusation, so instead you change the subject and are now taking a personal statement that I honestly made and you suggest that because of that statement my OP should be nominated for the most ignorant post on this forum? I have no respect for you.
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:47:09 PM permalink
Babs darlin " People just want to be accepted, to be part of a community, to be productive, to have friends, family, to live their life with some purpose."

STRAIGHT PEOPLE THAT IS ! John don't want no gays. NO WAY
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Buzzard
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June 28th, 2014 at 5:49:39 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

So you can't support your wild accusation, so instead you change the subject and are now taking a personal statement that I honestly made and you suggest that because of that statement my OP should be nominated for the most ignorant post on this forum? I have no respect for you.



For that I am very grateful.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
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