Is my casino comp calculation about right?

I'm not chasing comps but I'm trying to work out what my expected would be based on the following play at NYNY/Monte Carlo/Luxor?

$50 Blackjack 6 deck with surrender, resplit, double on any, hit soft 17
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
70 x 0.0075 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $735.00 (x40%) = $294.00

$25 Craps pass line (& odds), buy 6 & 8
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
48 x 0.0141 x 75 x 4 x 7 = $1421.28 (x40%) = $568.51

$50 Baccarat banker
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
72 x 0.0106 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $1068.48 (x40%) = $427.39

$50 Roulette 00 inside spread
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
38 x 0.0526 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $2798.32 (x40%) = $1,119.33

Are these fair estimates?

40% of their theoretical seems higher than normal, but competition for your business can work in your favor.

Go for the highest % back that you can get, then play during peak hours.
Assuming you're "just gambling", playing during peak periods means that, with some games, the number of actual events per hour can be less than what is computed. (It is possible that you are rated for playing more hands than what you actually play.)

I will be just gambling using basic strategy, no card counting or anything else. Your right, playing on a busy table would slow up any game despite the urge to hit the 'hot' tables, but I guess these would normally go hand in hand anyway.

Do you know if a host would confirm your % of theoretical loss that they will comp or even if it's ok to ask such a question?

Quote: Jimmyburke1927

Do you know if a host would confirm your % of theoretical loss that they will comp or even if it's ok to ask such a question?

Its a bit gauche to even ask, and I assure you of one thing, if any host does confirm anything, he generally loses his job. Well, okay its not quite that bad, but in general the casino does not want to do anything more than indicate what their usual procedures are but never agree to actually apply those procedures in your particular case. They do not want you to be able to wiggle out of your betting. They want to SEE your action, not hear your promises. They you can see comps.

Play at a BJ table with someone likes time consuming side bets... you can be actually playing far less than the computerized Comp Rate.

On-Edit: By the way its best to know your theo and know what you have been getting in comps but don't hold a casino to a rumored industry percentage. Some casinos sweeten deals for you if you are relatively new, some don't. Some casinos invest in players future, some only want to see your present action. And somewhere somehow in the dark dim resources of the casino computer, some excess static may have told the computer not to like you. So just go with the flow on the comps and do your business where you enjoy it and they enjoy having you.

I thought it probably would be.

Does anyone know what side bets are on the tables at MC, NYNY, and Luxor?

Quote: Jimmyburke1927

$50 Blackjack 6 deck with surrender, resplit, double on any, hit soft 17

At NYNY you can go into the high limit room and play for $50 minimums and get these same rules, except S17 (I'm not sure if $50 is available all the time, but I've seen and played it. They also have a double deck game with very good rules -- same as 6-deck, except no surrender)

As for the rest of your post, this is not how M-life casinos calculate comps or theoretical. They are actually pretty open about it -- it's in their brochures.

A $25 average bet for an hour will get you 550 tier credits. It scales up linearly, so a $50 average bet for an hour will get you 1100 tier credits.

Different games have different "multipliers". So if you are betting $25 at blackjack, they will rate you $25. But some games might have a multiplier of 2, so if you are betting $25 at those games, they would rate you $50. If you are not sure about the multiplier on a game you can just ask the person who is rating you -- again, they are open about it. The multiplier on craps is 1, but if you make a lot of sucker bets they will rate you higher. If you tip well they will rate you higher, too (not a rule, of course, but that's how it usually works out) Remember that if you are moving your bets around, your "average bet" is just an approximation, so they have a lot of leeway. If they like you, you will get better ratings. (This is not really true if you are flat-betting)

At Baccarat they expect you to play about half the hands. So if you bet $100 per hand every single hand, they will rate you at $200. They do not rate you differently based on whether you bet player or banker. Note that at MGM casinos, games with $100 minimums are usually "squeeze" games which are A LOT slower than dealer-turned games, but the rating is the same. So, betting $100 for half the hands at a $100 table will get you the same rating as betting $50 for all the hands at a $50 table, but the game will move much, much slower so you will lose a lot less per hour.

At blackjack you get the same rating whether you are playing at a S17 or H17 table, and whether you are playing at a table that gets 150 hands an hour, or 50. If you are at a casino where they use a computer to track your play, they may "pause" you when you get up to leave the table (eg, bathroom break). If they are using the paper slips, they almost certainly will not bother.

So, back to the comps. I mentioned a certain amount of tier credits that you will get -- 550 per $25 rated bet per hour. Each 1000 tier credits will get you $1 in express comps (before tier multiplier -- if you have the higher level cards, you get get this number multiplied by 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 for pearl, gold, plantinum, and noir respectively) Note that your tier credits do not get multiplied; only your express comps and (if you play machines) your slot points (which are worth freeplay).

Now, this is really not very much in comps. $100/hand for four hours will get you $17.60 in express comps (before multipliers), which is not very much. But, this level of play is probably enough to get you a free room at most properties on most nights (you may need a bit more at the higher-end properties, but you are talking about NYNY, Monte Carlo, and Luxor, which are not high end). This is why you need a host. A host will comp you in addition to your express comps. If you don't have a host, you can check out at the player's club desk, and they will call the on-call host, who can look at your play, but in my experience, my host is MUCH more generous than the on-call host.

I find that if you are betting black, they will see that you don't have a host when they put you into the computer, and will call one to come over and talk to you (this is how I've gotten all my hosts). You can also just ask -- the supervisor or pit boss will call one, who will likely give you a business card and ask you to call them before you check out. At a place like Luxor, Monte Carlo, or NYNY, $50 bets should be enough to get a host.

Also, FWIW, out of all of those places, I would choose the Monte Carlo if I was going to stay there. Luxor is a dump IMO, and I like NYNY's casino but I've heard bad things about the hotel. Monte Carlo is small (tiny by strip casino standards) and low-limit, but it's kind of nice, IMO. Not fancy, but nice. And the newly-renovated rooms are pretty good.

(Sorry that this post was so long, but I hope you found the info useful)

Quote: FleaStiff

Its a bit gauche to even ask, and I assure you of one thing, if any host does confirm anything, he generally loses his job. Well, okay its not quite that bad, but in general the casino does not want to do anything more than indicate what their usual procedures are but never agree to actually apply those procedures in your particular case.

I don't think that this is the case at all. My host told me that the goal was to comp at 30% of theoretical. I didn't even ask -- it just came up. I was also shown the computer screen with all my sessions, my actual win/loss, the theoretical, and how much my "goal" comp amount was.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

(Sorry that this post was so long, but I hope you found the info useful)

Thank you and this wasn't too long all. The more information the better.

When we talk about multipliers I guess 00 roulette due to high house edge would have a multiplier? Not a great game I know but I only really play roulette when my lady joins me on the casino floor for an hour here and there. I obviously look out for a single 0 or even better a European when available.

If we put express comps to one side, what would we expect from host comps on the originally quoted gambling levels?

If we had a room covered on an advanced comp from a host before arriving would this be held against you for any new comps during the stay?

I have always been told 30% of theoretical, but I am not quite sure how they calculate theoretical. I assumed that it was proportional to the points that you earn (since that's how they calculate express comps and freeplay) but after a recent talk with a host, I'm not sure that that's true (again, I didn't bring it up, but she volunteered the information)

If you have stuff comped up-front, it will count against you. It's still better to get stuff comped up front, though, though, because it allows you to get comps without using up your express comps first, so you can bank them and save them for future trips.

I don't play roulette but I doubt that the rating has a multiplier. Again, this is one of those games where you probably don't bet the same amount every spin, so there is some discretion in how to rate you. I'd suspect that you'd get better ratings if they like you and you tip, just like with craps. Even though the edge is high, the game is very, very slow.

Quote: Jimmyburke1927

I'm not chasing comps but I'm trying to work out what my expected would be based on the following play at NYNY/Monte Carlo/Luxor?

$50 Blackjack 6 deck with surrender, resplit, double on any, hit soft 17
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
70 x 0.0075 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $735.00 (x40%) = $294.00

$25 Craps pass line (& odds), buy 6 & 8
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
48 x 0.0141 x 75 x 4 x 7 = $1421.28 (x40%) = $568.51

$50 Baccarat banker
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
72 x 0.0106 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $1068.48 (x40%) = $427.39

$50 Roulette 00 inside spread
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
38 x 0.0526 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $2798.32 (x40%) = $1,119.33

Are these fair estimates?

You must differentiate between points and actual Comps. The $ value you show is some theoretical value only. You never get that money. Points earned is of little value actually. Most points can be earned in BJ at a slow full table. I don't play Craps. Bac, the house is always looking out for players playing for the points due to the low HA. Where I play if you don't bet 3 rounds in a row you get no points. Roulette I say you must have a hole in your head to play the double zero at 5.26% HA.

You can get a lot of points but no Comps. Incidentally maximum Comps MGM will give is 30%. You must play some Slots to get Comps like rooms etc. The points only tell the casino whether you are a regular player or once awhile player.

Quote: Deck007

You must play some Slots to get Comps like rooms etc.

That is false. I was getting free rooms as a table-games-only player for a very long time.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

That is false. I was getting free rooms as a table-games-only player for a very long time.

You play in the high limit room. That is why. Not many are like you

Quote: Deck007

You play in the high limit room. That is why. Not many are like you

I do now, but not always. I was getting rooms before I played that high, and before I ever played machines. Green-chip table play will get you free rooms at Monte Carlo, particularly at non-peak times. You will not get the best offers in the world, but you will get rooms. I used to stay there for free as a pearl-level m-life player.

Edit: OP said he was looking at betting $50 per hand. I'd suspect that 4-6 hours a day of that would be enough to get a free room at Monte Carlo most of the time. Maybe less mid-week, maybe more on busy weekends.

Quote: Deck007

You play in the high limit room. That is why. Not many are like you

Do you get better comps when playing in the high limit room then?

I've always found the tables fairly empty in there and because I enjoy the social aspect of casino gambling I've always played the main floor with everyone else.

Quote: Deck007

You play in the high limit room. That is why. Not many are like you

I get free rooms from MGM all the time and when I play rated it's almost always averaging $25-$50 a hand. No slots at all.

Quote: geoff

I get free rooms from MGM all the time and when I play rated it's almost always averaging $25-$50 a hand. No slots at all.

Yes, this was my experience a few years ago as well.

Now, you may not be able to get a free room when there is a big fight or something and the place is packed, but most of the time you will be fine.

Quote: Jimmyburke1927

Do you get better comps when playing in the high limit room then?

I've always found the tables fairly empty in there and because I enjoy the social aspect of casino gambling I've always played the main floor with everyone else.

Yes.
Others are talking about the bottom of the barrel. At the Venetian you need to play minimum 4 hours at the $200 table.

Quote: Jimmyburke1927

I'm not chasing comps but I'm trying to work out what my expected would be based on the following play at NYNY/Monte Carlo/Luxor?

$50 Blackjack 6 deck with surrender, resplit, double on any, hit soft 17
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
70 x 0.0075 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $735.00 (x40%) = $294.00

$25 Craps pass line (& odds), buy 6 & 8
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
48 x 0.0141 x 75 x 4 x 7 = $1421.28 (x40%) = $568.51

$50 Baccarat banker
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
72 x 0.0106 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $1068.48 (x40%) = $427.39

$50 Roulette 00 inside spread
Hands per Hour X House Edge X Avg Bet X Hours Played X Days = $xyz x40%
38 x 0.0526 x 50 x 4 x 7 = $2798.32 (x40%) = $1,119.33

Are these fair estimates?

Your estimates are a little off. I'm going to assume you have done your homework and your HE's are correct.

First thing that is off a little is your hands per hour. They differ quite wildly from yours depending on where you play. Think of this figure as a way for the casino to effectively change your Theoretical in their favor quite legally.
Secondly, your 40% of theoretical seems way too high unles you are purely using it for reference and this isn't actually what you have been offered. Most casinos are actually at about 15 to 20%, especially for first time players who may not have a track record with the particular casino or group.

Scale back your DPH (decisions per hour) especially for Roulette and Baccarat (especially here, Midi baccarat) and also look at about a 15% of your theoretical for comps......

Play well!

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I do now, but not always. I was getting rooms before I played that high, and before I ever played machines. Green-chip table play will get you free rooms at Monte Carlo, particularly at non-peak times. You will not get the best offers in the world, but you will get rooms. I used to stay there for free as a pearl-level m-life player.

Edit: OP said he was looking at betting $50 per hand. I'd suspect that 4-6 hours a day of that would be enough to get a free room at Monte Carlo most of the time. Maybe less mid-week, maybe more on busy weekends.

Axiom, do you find it true that MLife will usually offer you comped rooms at the hotels where you actually play? I find TR and ML to be quite different in this regard. With Total Rewards, they will offer you a similar discount or a free room at several similar properties regardless of where you actually played. Whereas with MLife, if I play several hours of green chip craps at Bellagio, I don't end up really getting anything, because that's not enough play for a free room there, and they don't offer a free or discounted room at, say, Monte Carlo.

That has been my experience, but I don't play rated much at MLife casinos any more, so I'm wondering if that was an outlier or not.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Axiom, do you find it true that MLife will usually offer you comped rooms at the hotels where you actually play? I find TR and ML to be quite different in this regard. With Total Rewards, they will offer you a similar discount or a free room at several similar properties regardless of where you actually played. Whereas with MLife, if I play several hours of green chip craps at Bellagio, I don't end up really getting anything, because that's not enough play for a free room there, and they don't offer a free or discounted room at, say, Monte Carlo.

That has been my experience, but I don't play rated much at MLife casinos any more, so I'm wondering if that was an outlier or not.

I don't know much about TR, but I do find that my best offers are from casinos where I actually play. I also get "standard" (worse) offers from the other M-life casinos (these include free rooms for me, but nowhere near the offers I get from the places where I play).

I have called and tried to get a better deal. The people at VIP booking can't do anything better than the offer (they would not even extend a 3-free-night offer to a 4-free-night offer, which is ridiculous). I'm guessing that if I talked to a host who looked up my play at the other casinos, they'd be able to take care of it, though. Casinos all have their hosts' contact info on their web site, so you can always just call or email one directly. I have done this once.

Another approach is to just book the room and then ask to talk to a host while you are playing. They will just give you a card and tell you to talk to them before you check out -- if you are playing enough to get it comped, it will get comped.

Even if you don't play high enough to have a host, always check out at the players' club -- they will call the on-call host for you and they will (at least) be able to apply your express comps, and usually something extra, towards your charges (but they will not be as generous as your own host would be, so, if you are playing high enough to have your own host, get one)