Is there any point someone would be backed off for being lucky?

So I've been on one crazy run this last month, and it's getting to the point where I swear the floor is making funny faces each time the dealer calls out a large payout to me. I'm up about $8000 overall. I'm playing UTH so obviously no card counting and I'm not preying on dealer mistakes. To be fair no one has said anything from the floor except to congratulate me, but this is the first time I've seen the floor start to become annoyed by my winning (I've been betting pretty big for a small casino so they would feel my thousand dollar wins hit their bottom line more than a Vegas casino).

I'm not doing any AP and I'm even playing the progressive light! I do bet pretty close to optimal strategy (I use the fringe hands to indulge my gut sometimes). Mostly my luck has been getting lucky when I bet big on trips (for instance I put $100 on trips and hit a full house for a $1000 gain once all was said and done) and having a deep enough bankroll to withstand when the cards swing against me. There were times in all of my $1000+ winning sessions where I was down several hundred dollars.

To emphasize the casino has done nothing to indicate they would actually back me off, but I was wondering if there's ever a point if they just get tired of someone winning and cut them off.

Quote: ComplexEnigma

So I've been on one crazy run this last month, and it's getting to the point where I swear the floor is making funny faces each time the dealer calls out a large payout to me. I'm up about $8000 overall. I'm playing UTH so obviously no card counting and I'm not preying on dealer mistakes. To be fair no one has said anything from the floor except to congratulate me, but this is the first time I've seen the floor start to become annoyed by my winning (I've been betting pretty big for a small casino so they would feel my thousand dollar wins hit their bottom line more than a Vegas casino).

I'm not doing any AP and I'm even playing the progressive light! I do bet pretty close to optimal strategy (I use the fringe hands to indulge my gut sometimes). Mostly my luck has been getting lucky when I bet big on trips (for instance I put $100 on trips and hit a full house for a $1000 gain once all was said and done) and having a deep enough bankroll to withstand when the cards swing against me. There were times in all of my $1000+ winning sessions where I was down several hundred dollars.

To emphasize the casino has done nothing to indicate they would actually back me off, but I was wondering if there's ever a point if they just get tired of someone winning and cut them off.

There is no rule that says the casino cannot ask you to leave at any time for any reaason whatsoever and you have to comply. It is called private property. Having said that I have never actually heard of a casino backing someone off for being lucky. They would have to have proof that you are either AP'ing or cheating. Why would a casino back you off anyway? They want your action because they know they will get the money back in the long run unless you stop playing right now and never go back.......

Enjoy the run and don't give it back!!!

I've seen cases where people have been backed off for being suspected of card counting when all they were was lucky. This was only for blackjack though. I imagine a game where counting is impossible like UTH they might watch to make sure you weren't cheating, but otherwise say play on.

Quote: geoff

I've seen cases where people have been backed off for being suspected of card counting when all they were was lucky. This was only for blackjack though. I imagine a game where counting is impossible like UTH they might watch to make sure you weren't cheating, but otherwise say play on.

I guess you could be hole carding UTH, which is quite vulnerable to hole carding especially with ACE shuffler. That wouldn't be cheating right?

OP, if you aren't doing any of the things listed above, then don't worry about it.

The floor is sweating the money which is something they will always do even though it isn't their money and they are being paid no matter what.

Quote: Tomspur

I guess you could be hole carding UTH, which is quite vulnerable to hole carding especially with ACE shuffler. That wouldn't be cheating right?

OP, if you aren't doing any of the things listed above, then don't worry about it.

The floor is sweating the money which is something they will always do even though it isn't their money and they are being paid no matter what.

Right, hole carding isn't cheating. It's something they would probably check for if you are winning, but it's pretty easy to check if you know what you are doing.

Quote: geoff

Right, hole carding isn't cheating. It's something they would probably check for if you are winning, but it's pretty easy to check if you know what you are doing.

Agreed!

Yeah it's just luck with me catching big hands when I'm pressing my bets. Pretty much it has always been me catching a Full House at the perfect time. That's why I like UTH. A lot of times as long as your aren't getting continually crushed on max bet hands, you can weather a run of lousy hands and be right back in the thick of things with a flush or full house which don't seem that uncommon. Then get on a run where you are hitting a string of full houses, straights, and flushes and suddenly you've doubled your bank roll. All my big wins have largely come after cashing out after a run of straight+ hands.

I personally know a coupla cats what got backed off, simply for winning regular grinding the don'ts at the dice tables. Some joints just plain sweat the cake and hate for ya to win, hey hey.

Quote: ComplexEnigma

So I've been on one crazy run this last month, and it's getting to the point where I swear the floor is making funny faces each time the dealer calls out a large payout to me. I'm up about $8000 overall. I'm playing UTH so obviously no card counting and I'm not preying on dealer mistakes. To be fair no one has said anything from the floor except to congratulate me, but this is the first time I've seen the floor start to become annoyed by my winning (I've been betting pretty big for a small casino so they would feel my thousand dollar wins hit their bottom line more than a Vegas casino).

I'm not doing any AP and I'm even playing the progressive light! I do bet pretty close to optimal strategy (I use the fringe hands to indulge my gut sometimes). Mostly my luck has been getting lucky when I bet big on trips (for instance I put $100 on trips and hit a full house for a $1000 gain once all was said and done) and having a deep enough bankroll to withstand when the cards swing against me. There were times in all of my $1000+ winning sessions where I was down several hundred dollars.

To emphasize the casino has done nothing to indicate they would actually back me off, but I was wondering if there's ever a point if they just get tired of someone winning and cut them off.

What kind of place are you playing in where they sweat over being up $8k in a month? I've won more than that in a single bet before and never gotten anything negative from anyone.

Any place who will take $100 bets should not care about $8k. It is not hard to be up or down that much from a particularly good or bad run, especially on a game that pays decent odds on good hands.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

What kind of place are you playing in where they sweat over being up $8k in a month? I've won more than that in a single bet before and never gotten anything negative from anyone.

Any place who will take $100 bets should not care about $8k. It is not hard to be up or down that much from a particularly good or bad run, especially on a game that pays decent odds on good hands.

Most of the players in there are betting with only white chips, particularly on a Monday night. Me betting green chips in UTH likely had more money riding on just my hand than most of the tables in the rest of the casino. I can feel pretty confident the table probably took a loss for the night, since there were really only 3 other people that joined me, one that from what I can tell left up a few hundred dollars, and 2 that lost but probably only lost $100 each max. I'm sure on like a Friday night when everyone is blowing their paychecks the probably would be too busy to care, but on a quiet Monday night where I was tossing around the most money by far, they would start getting funny looks once the string of $200 for full house, $175 for flush, etc calls started coming from my dealer. But when I cashed out the floor manager shook my hand and congratulated me on my win, so I'm not exactly worried or anything. Their funny faces just made me curious.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I think I might have seen someone backed off at the blackjack table but the circumstances seem really strange. I saw the floor manager walk up to a guy playing blackjack one on one. I didn't hear the whole conversation but it seemed like they were telling him not to play blackjack. The floor manager seemed apologetic about it and offered to buy the guy dinner so it played out really strange. From the threads I've read in the blackjack forum people getting back off seem to be told sternly at best and hostile at worst. Also the guy was betting just white chips (when I looked over his bet seemed like $10 max) and only playing one hand. Furthermore the blackjack rules are pretty crappy (6 deck, H17, no surrender) that I can't really imagine a counter targeting that game. However the game stayed open after he left so it wasn't something wrong with the game or dealer having an emergency or anything. It was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in a casino and I cannot figure out for the life of me what happened. The guy even came back and shook hands with one of the other floor supervisors. I tried to get my dealer to tell me what was going on but she said she had no clue. Anyone have any ideas?

Quote: ComplexEnigma

Most of the players in there are betting with only white chips, particularly on a Monday night. Me betting green chips in UTH likely had more money riding on just my hand than most of the tables in the rest of the casino. I can feel pretty confident the table probably took a loss for the night, since there were really only 3 other people that joined me, one that from what I can tell left up a few hundred dollars, and 2 that lost but probably only lost $100 each max. I'm sure on like a Friday night when everyone is blowing their paychecks the probably would be too busy to care, but on a quiet Monday night where I was tossing around the most money by far, they would start getting funny looks once the string of $200 for full house, $175 for flush, etc calls started coming from my dealer. But when I cashed out the floor manager shook my hand and congratulated me on my win, so I'm not exactly worried or anything. Their funny faces just made me curious.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I think I might have seen someone backed off at the blackjack table but the circumstances seem really strange. I saw the floor manager walk up to a guy playing blackjack one on one. I didn't hear the whole conversation but it seemed like they were telling him not to play blackjack. The floor manager seemed apologetic about it and offered to buy the guy dinner so it played out really strange. From the threads I've read in the blackjack forum people getting back off seem to be told sternly at best and hostile at worst. Also the guy was betting just white chips (when I looked over his bet seemed like $10 max) and only playing one hand. Furthermore the blackjack rules are pretty crappy (6 deck, H17, no surrender) that I can't really imagine a counter targeting that game. However the game stayed open after he left so it wasn't something wrong with the game or dealer having an emergency or anything. It was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in a casino and I cannot figure out for the life of me what happened. The guy even came back and shook hands with one of the other floor supervisors. I tried to get my dealer to tell me what was going on but she said she had no clue. Anyone have any ideas?

Considering the table conditions and the way guy was betting, that sounds like a disagreement of some sort rather than a back off. Another reason is the meal comp. Although I have seen it, back offs don't usually come with a free meal. Pit bosses can be goodwill ambassadors when they want to.

It's not uncommon for a non counter to be backed off from blackjack simply for winning. There could be a variety of reasons but it usually comes down to poorly trained staff with outdated ideas. I've even seen non counters backed off after winning side bets. I've also seen them lose their comps.

Most, but definitely not all, of my back offs have been polite and sometimes apologetic. The farther back in time the worse the back offs seem to have been.

If I was running the casino I would want my people to be suspicious. It can be all kinds of things, including dealer collusion.

I would not want them to show any sign of that however; totally stupid and unprofessional. They should be treating you quite well in fact, pushing the limits of what can be returned to you from the theoretical losses of your total action.

Quote: ComplexEnigma

Mostly my luck has been getting lucky when I bet big on trips.

Once that was known they should have relaxed some.

It's the pit critter's job to sweat the money. Most of them are actually very superstitious, so much so they don't think it's even superstition, but it's just a fact (like they TRULY BELIEVE slowing down a craps game will make the hot-shooter seven out, or switching the dealer(s) on a BJ/craps game will "turn it around"), like throwing a penny under a table to cause bad luck to the players. Although it isn't their money on the line....they certainly don't want their pit to be losing money (or winning little money), because they look bad to the upper management, who in a similar way, sweat the money and don't take "sometimes the pit is gonna lose money, it's part of the game" for an answer.

And yeah, we all should know that if the PB was properly educated, he would first try to figure out what you're doing (hole-carding, cheating, marking cards, or just lucky variance), then if he establishes that you're just lucky, he would appear to be happy and root for you (on the outside at least), because a happy customer always comes back. But, not all PBs are educated, and most really aren't. That isn't to say most PBs will try to back you off......but people do get backed off for winning too much, especially if other tables are getting slammed too. I've seen a casino shift manager (in a small store, that is) back off a player and say something like, "I'm sorry but we can't handle your action right now, you've won quite a bit and we are a small store after all, but you're free to come back and play tomorrow" type of thing. Not word or word, but that was the gist of the conversation. Then again, it was a small store and every table got slammed for several thousand.

Yeah the whole situation was weird. The floor manager walked out of the pit to talk to him and he seemed to be playing fine before the manager got to him. No arguing with the dealer, no nothing. I'm not sure if this is done in Washington, but I wonder if he listed himself as a problem gambler or something and thus got barred by the state from casinos. That's the theory I'm going with now but it still seems weird.

According to most, every dice setter who got on a hot streak, and was backed off, fell into this category.

Quote: Tomspur

There is no rule that says the casino cannot ask you to leave at any time for any reaason whatsoever and you have to comply.

Quote: Tomspur

They would have to have proof that you are either AP'ing or cheating.

These 2 statements you just said are contradictory. And obviously only one of them is true, which is the first one. You can't prove someone card counting but you kick them out of the casino anyway for the lulz.