Types of gamblers?

I'm a low stakes gambler -- 25 cent Jacks or better video poker, $10-$25 blackjack, and $3-5 craps. I play low house edge games because I like the fun of gambling, but I don't want to give my money away. I expect to lose in the long run. I follow basic strategies to keep house edge down and avoid bad bets. My bankroll is generally $300-400 for the trip. I've warned my wife that one day I hope to have a bankroll of $1000, but it's going to be a while before that happens.

What other types of gamblers are there?

Advantage players -- Bob Dancer is one such type. He only plays video poker where he can get a greater than 100% return usually through a combination of the game and slot promotions. He meticulously calcualtes every angle to the game and the expected value of any play he makes. He's playing $5 or more video poker with a bankroll in the range of $100,000 to $500,000.

Super Whales -- rich, but beyond that I have no idea what they're playing or how.

Other types?

Flea -- Very small bettor, and usually plays for several hours at a time. Motivated more by entertainment than thrill of gambling.

Stiff -- Gambler who never tips.

Sometimes one person is both of these.

Quote: helpmespock

Super Whales -- rich, but beyond that I have no idea what they're playing or how.

Terry Watanabe that lost $189 million in 2007 to Harrah's never bothered to learn odds or probability. He had no idea how to play blackjack and favored large HA games.

Most whales play baccarat now, since many of them are Asian. A lot of the American whales are at least smarter, and choose craps with lots of free odds. Personally, if I was going to gamble that much money it would always be craps at full odds.

There is a very common type of gambler that believes that they personally have some influence on the outcome. they draw to inside straights since it is a challenge.

I am a low-level advantage/recreational player. I don't have nearly the bankroll of Dancer or the Wizard, but if I did, I would go the A.P. route. I play strictly video poker and blackjack, sometimes some other carny games where I think I might have the edge, and craps rarely for recreation (PL+odds). I calculate the value of free drinks, cashback, and room offers when deciding where to focus my play. I am probably doing worse than I think I am, but I hold my own. I hit a string of jackpots last year, and my bankroll ballooned. Unfortunately, I decided to move up in denomination in both BJ and VP and am getting hammered so far this year. That was a mistake.

Quote: helpmespock

I'm a low stakes gambler -- 25 cent Jacks or better video poker, $10-$25 blackjack, and $3-5 craps.

Go into any Wine Store and you will find that despite all the exotic and expensive wines, the store makes its money from all those under ten dollar bottles! Sure some casinos try to position themselves as whale havens or in some upscale segment of the market, but in reality casinos still make their money on the low and medium rollers.

>I play low house edge games and I follow basic strategies to keep house edge down and avoid bad bets.
Good for you. The attractive young lady bringing you that free drink is there to get you in the mood for the higher house edge games and to make it more difficult for you to adhere to basic strategy.

>What other types of gamblers are there?
There are lots of cutesy names and probably a few less humorous names. Often the categories are a bit fuzzy.

Of course the Flea is the one who is such a degenerate gambler he doesn't leave the craps table long enough to take care of basic personal hygiene and thereby annoys the dice dealers who are downwind of him. The term is also applied to slot players who literally fail to leave their machine to attend to the call of nature!

The Stiff is a gambler who fails to tip but the term also embraces the worst stiff of all, the casino who whenever they discover a situation involving a propensity to tip will invent some sort of side bet to drain those chips away from the dealers. Steve Wynn doesn't bother with side bets much, he just puts his sticky fingers directly into their tip jar.

Fanny Pack Gamblers: a term used to apply to gamblers who are clearly ignorant tourists. In America, the term fanny is not at all improper but in Australia I understand its quite insulting if females are present. So perhaps Australian casinos have an alternative expression for some tourist walking about wearing a small pack and carrying a camera and also chips that he feeds into some game he doesn't even understand.

Tourists: In a poker room, the term is used to connote a source of easy income to locals. Tourists are players who are so enamored of being in Vegas that they often enjoy losing their money.

In reality I guess all casinos view gamblers as being of two types of sheep: those that have already been shorn and those that are about to be shorn.

Is $10 to $25 BJ really considered low-stakes?

I will admit that I don't venture into the high-limit salons, but in every casino I frequent (in downtown LV, the LV locals casinos, and Laughlin) $10-$25 covers 90% of the play. Tables with $25 or higher minimums almost always sit empty, and anyone who bets more than about $25 usually doesn't do so for very long (generally it's someone going "all in" out of frustration).

Quote: FleaStiff

Fanny Pack Gamblers ... In America, the term fanny is not at all improper but in Australia I understand its quite insulting if females are present. So perhaps Australian casinos have an alternative expression for some tourist walking about wearing a small pack and carrying a camera and also chips that he feeds into some game he doesn't even understand.

As those who watched the original (UK) Office know, in England/Australia a fanny pack is a "bum bag."
"'Cause in the U.S., fanny means your arse and not ... you know ... your m*nge."

Quote: Melman

Is $10 to $25 BJ really considered low-stakes?

I will admit that I don't venture into the high-limit salons, but in every casino I frequent (in downtown LV, the LV locals casinos, and Laughlin) $10-$25 covers 90% of the play. Tables with $25 or higher minimums almost always sit empty, and anyone who bets more than about $25 usually doesn't do so for very long (generally it's someone going "all in" out of frustration).

Low stakes really is all about locale - here on the east coast, it definitely counts as low stakes. Sometimes $15 is the minimum you can find for blackjack. High limit rooms in AC typically start at $50 min during 'slow' times. Rumor is that Charlestown (getting table games in July, 1 hr from DC) will have no tables below $25 min at all.

I consider myself a low level player - $5-15 blackjack, $20-25 pai gow, and occasional .25 VP. I know the payback is poor for nickel VP, but I usually play that instead - I rationalize it by stating the return is much better than the penny slots :)

-B

Quote: FleaStiff

>I play low house edge games and I follow basic strategies to keep house edge down and avoid bad bets.
Good for you. The attractive young lady bringing you that free drink is there to get you in the mood for the higher house edge games and to make it more difficult for you to adhere to basic strategy.

I typically only have one or two drinks over the course of a two hour session if it's the evening. I stick to orange juice and coffee for early morning craps sessions.

Quote: FleaStiff

Of course the Flea is the one who is such a degenerate gambler he doesn't leave the craps table long enough to take care of basic personal hygiene and thereby annoys the dice dealers who are downwind of him. The term is also applied to slot players who literally fail to leave their machine to attend to the call of nature!

There were rumours that the casinos where I live (Ontario,Canada) were regularly cleaning up those adult diapers in their washrooms when the casinos first opened. Who knows if it's true.

Quote: fleastiff

Go into any Wine Store and you will find that despite all the exotic and expensive wines, the store makes its money from all those under ten dollar bottles! Sure some casinos try to position themselves as whale havens or in some upscale segment of the market, but in reality casinos still make their money on the low and medium rollers.

True, but casinos these days are padding their money with high-end Baccarat players who are pretty much solely responsible for keeping the year-over-year revenue numbers look decent... Baccarrat brought in about 35% of the revenue on the strip in February (an unusual month).

Quote: helpmespock

There were rumours that the casinos where I live (Ontario,Canada) were regularly cleaning up those adult diapers in their washrooms when the casinos first opened. Who knows if it's true.

Ewww. There was a older guy (in his 50s) at the craps table (at one of the two fine Niagara Falls establishments) who smelled really badly every time he played and he never left the table. We were sure he was wearing a diaper. He kept on insulting the way my wife threw the dice (she was sevening out early -- so what, we all do it (except sevenshooter, of course)). After the third time, she had had enough (and had had a couple of drinks by then) and she told him, quite loudly, to "go change his diaper". Haven't seen him since, though I think we did spot him up at Rama a year later.

I hold my hand up as "flea". Maybe "fly" (LOL), because I play a little above the minimum; $10 craps, $25 table games, $1 slots. But it's relative, and that's certainly not enough to be called "high roller". I budget $500 a session and try to have 2 sessions a day, afternoon and evening, but we've taken the bus to AC and only gambled in the afternoon.

I'm in no way a stiff (I know you weren't implying that fleas and stiffs are the same, Wizard). I believe in tipping, win or lose. I work for my money, too, but we're all in this together. The service industry is a dance, and the best way to enjoy the dance is to dance together.

I'd like to point out something that I think is an important part of the Wizard's work. I understand that my bet levels are out of proportion to my session budget. And I'm OK with that; I understand that it is possible to lose all of my money in an hour or less, and then I'll have to walk the boardwalk. What the Wizard has done for me is, he's helped me to understand that. Once I've done it with full information, it has changed from "bad luck" to a choice I've made. I know that it is likely to happen, based on my preferences. And I know what to do about it, ie, walk away. I didn't get to pick that I need to bet that way in order to get my blood pumping, and at the same time my capacity for accepting loss starts screaming at $500; that's how I'm wired. The knowledge I got here and at WoO has taught me how to enjoy being wired that way, rather than be frustrated by it.

Quote: Mosca

I'd like to point out something that I think is an important part of the Wizard's work. I understand that my bet levels are out of proportion to my session budget. And I'm OK with that; I understand that it is possible to lose all of my money in an hour or less, and then I'll have to walk the boardwalk. What the Wizard has done for me is, he's helped me to understand that. Once I've done it with full information, it has changed from "bad luck" to a choice I've made. I know that it is likely to happen, based on my preferences. And I know what to do about it, ie, walk away.

I probably would like to discuss this further in a separate thread. I think I have the basic strategies down or know enough to avoid high house edge bets thanks to the WoO site. What I'm still getting a handle on is bankroll, variance of the game I'm playing, and the risk of ruin. Like you, I now realize that even at $3-5 craps taking full x3-4-5 odds that my $100 can wash out pretty quickly. Ditto sitting down with $200 at a $25 minimum blackjack table.

Back on the original topic, it looks like I should create another thread and poll people on the type of gamblers that are here.

Quote: helpmespock

I probably would like to discuss this further in a separate thread. I think I have the basic strategies down or know enough to avoid high house edge bets thanks to the WoO site. What I'm still getting a handle on is bankroll, variance of the game I'm playing, and the risk of ruin. Like you, I now realize that even at $3-5 craps taking full x3-4-5 odds that my $100 can wash out pretty quickly. Ditto sitting down with $200 at a $25 minimum blackjack table.

Back on the original topic, it looks like I should create another thread and poll people on the type of gamblers that are here.

We should definitely discuss the relationship between bankroll and bet size, here as drift, or in another thread.

I tacked my comment on in this thread as an edit, because I want to make a point about the power of knowledge, how it is far more wide reaching and emotional that it might appear to be, and how it is related to the type of gambler I am. Knowledge won't necessarily change what I do, but nevertheless gives me the power to enjoy what I do. Do not make the mistake of thinking that accepting bad odds is the same as stupidity (although sometimes it is, in the face of the same bet at better odds [see Big 6/8], or playing a game against optimal strategy). We play to maximize entertainment, not income, and we will all do that differently. As I'm fond of writing, if I was interested in maximizing income I'd go to work instead of to the casino. My goal is to have fun being who I am. And these sites have helped me by schooling me on what's going on in the casino, from the odds to the comps to the way the employees act and why they act that way, and more. The more you know, the easier it is to maximize your fun, whatever that fun may be. Some day I'm going to walk into the casino and play 5 $100 hands of something, be it 3 card, 4 card, 5 pulls on a $100 slot, $100 at craps with 5x... something. I'm going to do it with full knowledge that my casino time will be 45 seconds. If I lose, I won't feel bad, because I accepted it (which isn't the same as liking the result). If I win, I'll feel great. And if I win, I'll walk away. The idea is to compress that $500 over 3-4 hours into a minute. Same budget, same session, but SUPER condensed.

Anyhow, thanks Wizard.

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