LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 5:44:42 PM permalink
It was suggested that even though I play craps 2 times a year, and I do know its a negative expectation game, that I mist be playiong it for "Fun"

I am not the type of person that loses at gambling but delcares "at least I had fun". This is a security blanket people use to put salve on the wound of losing.

As I said before if I gamble and win 500, but hd a lousey dry table with no conversation and someone blowing smoke in my face the whole time...its just fine with me.

As opposed to a lively table with jokes and alcohol, and laughig...and losing 500........


The logic is flawed in the assumption that when I play craps its becasuse I have fun

Its flawed because we do things in life all the time that doesnt involve fun

I went to a seminar 4 days ago. Did I have "fun",,,,no but I accomplished what I intended to accomplish...learn something valuable on a topic

I went to play craps 2 months ago....did I have fun....no..it was a grind...but I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish.....win

I used to go to all my children's parent/teacher meetings........was it fun? No... alot of wating around,...but I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish...a better understanding of my child's progress.

Sometimes we do things simply because its something we want to do or want to try. And the reason always isnt "fun".


people who lose at gambling and proclaim "at least they had fun".....is just self delusion. They can do that every day of their lives till they are bankrupt....and tell me how much "fun" it is to lose. You can play those games all the time. You can intend to lose max 500 dollars at a visit...but bring 5 k......and then when you lose....you can proclaim....you only lost 10 percent of your bankroll. You can put any kind of verbal salve on the wound of losing...but one thing its not is "fun"

Plenty of people go to their jobs.....and are not having "fun". But its something they want to do because of various reasons.

well some people like myself may want to play craps twice a year and try to win money. To me the most fun is playing numbers on roulette..piling up chips on lucky numbers watching the ball bounce around. But I avoid the game because I would rather try to win...and as far as table games I feel craps gives me the best shot at winning....not the best shot at having fun....nope....
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
March 3rd, 2014 at 5:56:58 PM permalink
Larry,

Why do you keep harping on this in different threads? You don't gamble for fun or entertainment. We get it. Some of us gamble for fun or entertainment. So what? The best spin I can put on your stance is that you are judging other people's "why" in a negative way compared to your "why". People gamble for their own reasons; they don't have to be yours.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mosca
Mosca
  • Threads: 191
  • Posts: 4140
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
March 3rd, 2014 at 5:57:54 PM permalink
The fun isn't the looking back, the fun is the anticipation. It's a propelling feature, not a reflecting feature.
A falling knife has no handle.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:00:17 PM permalink
Trying to make money by playing a game where the expectation is negative is foolish. That's not how you make money; that's how the casino makes money.

If I play, it is costing me the combined -EV of all my bets. I had better get something in return for that. If I'm not, I won't play.

Entertainment is a reasonable thing to get in return for money. Perhaps you get something else out of playing? If so, what?
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:02:31 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Larry,

Why do you keep harping on this in different threads? You don't gamble for fun or entertainment. We get it. Some of us gamble for fun or entertainment. So what? The best spin I can put on your stance is that you are judging other people's "why" in a negative way compared to your "why". People gamble for their own reasons; they don't have to be yours.



because I am practicing ettiquette and not hijacking a thread about "remember when" into a thread about theory of fun in gambling. People were respnonding and the thread was going in a direction that it wasnt intended to go. So I did the prudent thing and instead of responding back and fort....I took it here. If you feel this is posting on "multiple threads, please contact the moderator and have him remove this one.

or

If you have a problem with it you can easily avoid this thread. I did title it so that you know what you are getting beofre you click on it.
Doc
Doc
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 7287
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:12:25 PM permalink
I'm sure that Larry never goes to see a film or a play or a concert or a Cirque du Soleil show or anything like that. Unless he were picking pockets or something, every one of those would have a very high probability of costing him money, and he might have to make some excuse about "having fun" or "being entertained" the way that all the rest of us do. There is no reason to do anything unless you expect to make money at it. Money is the only thing of value in life.

BTW, in the earlier thread, there were some comments about whether people go to their jobs for the fun of it or for the money. Well, twice in my life (that I can think of right now) I had jobs that paid pretty decent money and which were a lot of fun. In both cases, when I decided that I wasn't having fun any more, I quit the job. One time was after three years on the job, and the other was after 26 years on the job. Now, I consider "having fun" to be my full-time job, and I look for that fun a lot of different places, including in casinos.
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:14:16 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Trying to make money by playing a game where the expectation is negative is foolish. That's not how you make money; that's how the casino makes money.

If I play, it is costing me the combined -EV of all my bets. I had better get something in return for that. If I'm not, I won't play.

Entertainment is a reasonable thing to get in return for money. Perhaps you get something else out of playing? If so, what?





that is not a logical reply

I do "foolish" things in life...at least "foolish" by your standards.....that doesnt mean I am doing it for "fun"

the world doesnt revolve around your definition of "fun: or your belief that when people do what you dont want to do....is doing it for fun

So the answer is no...I dont play craps 2 times a year "for the fun of it" as you suggest.

Just as I dont go to seminars 4-5 times a year "for the fun of it"

Just as I dont go to association meetings for "the fun of it"

every foolish thing we do in the world doesnt have to have the reason of "fun" behind it.
EdgeLooker
EdgeLooker
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 290
Joined: Jan 4, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:21:08 PM permalink
Reading these forums (while at work) is fun. lol :)
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:24:06 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

So the answer is no...I dont play craps 2 times a year "for the fun of it" as you suggest.



I am not saying that you are playing craps for fun. I am asking you why you do it.

If you play craps to make money, then, yes, that is foolish, because it will not work.
rxwine
rxwine
  • Threads: 209
  • Posts: 12164
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:28:51 PM permalink
How do you prove that at least some people aren't going to casinos for fun? If I impose all my preferences as reasonable standards, some games in the casino should go out of business, because I find some of them neither fun nor are they positive expectation. Thus no reason to even exist.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:29:36 PM permalink
Lets say I enjoy, "have fun" driving 90 miles an hour. I gamble everytime I do this that I could get a ticket.

So a police officer catches me and gives me a ticket for 400 dollars.

I tell you this story...and end it with "I got a 400.00 ticket.....but at least I had fun."


what a dunce....WHAT A MORON,........what an idiot.....i would be to say something so obviously insincere...so transparent


I lost 400 dollars but at least I had fun.....sounds familiar.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:31:41 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:37:17 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

Lets say I enjoy, "have fun" driving 90 miles an hour. I gamble everytime I do this that I could get a ticket.

So a police officer catches me and gives me a ticket for 400 dollars.

I tell you this story...and end it with "I got a 400.00 ticket.....but at least I had fun."


what a dunce....WHAT A MORON,........what an idiot.....i would be to say something so obviously insincere...so transparent


I lost 400 dollars but at least I had fun.....sounds familiar.



Actually I would consider that totally reasonable. $400 is nothing. I spend more than that when I take my car to the track for the day (although, driving on the track is a lot more fun than on the highway -- safer, too)
Mosca
Mosca
  • Threads: 191
  • Posts: 4140
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
March 3rd, 2014 at 7:23:55 PM permalink
Haha, one thing that is NOT fun is this discussion.

Peace, out.
A falling knife has no handle.
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 8:25:10 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Actually I would consider that totally reasonable. $400 is nothing. I spend more than that when I take my car to the track for the day (although, driving on the track is a lot more fun than on the highway -- safer, too)



very weak.

I expected better.


the amout of money you lose has no correlation to "fun". 2 people can stand next to each other at a craps table...have the same amounts of "fun", listen to the same jokes, have the same alcoholic drinks, hi-five each other the same amount of times.....and one person after 2 hours wins 400, and one loses 400.

The one that lost 400, says.."well at least I had fun".......yeah great....but the guy next to you won 400 and had the same fun...so the loss isnt really linked to the quality of "fun". I would think that all things being equal....the person who won 400 really had fun, while the person who lost 400 just talks about the "fun" but actually feels like crap if they arent drunk out of their mind.
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 8:45:32 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

How do you prove that at least some people aren't going to casinos for fun? If I impose all my preferences as reasonable standards, some games in the casino should go out of business, because I find some of them neither fun nor are they positive expectation. Thus no reason to even exist.




I am sure some people go to casinos for fun. I have seen people go to the sportsbook, put 10 dollars on a game and sit for3 hours and watch it and drink, and root for their team just as hard as the guy next to him with 1k on the game.

And its all relative. To some people 10 dollars is alot. To others like myself based on my hourly rate of pay....400 is not really a big deal but I still do care about losing it. For someone making 20 dollars an hour 400 is half a weeks gross pay.


so All i can comment on is the average person.....the person who says "I lost 400 but had fun", "I lOST 400, but between the free meals and drinks I just about broke even".....are just making excuses,

Dont compare it to paying 400 for a concert ticket. You pay 400 in order to see the concert. That the cost. But you dont HAVE to pay the 400 you lost in order to "have fun". You could have had an equal amount of "fun" if you bet differently and won money. The amount of money you lose cannot be tied to the "fun factor".

In extreme cases of a billonaire losing 400 but "having fun"....well I guess it can happen. But I am talking about the average oe that throws that lame excuse around.

you can go to a casino intending to have fun, and intending to make money,......2 SEPERATE THINGS. Not really tied toeach other. Like I said, I can grind out 400 at craps over a few hours and not categorize it as "fun". And If I lose 400....i cant pawn it off as the cost of "having fun"
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 8:49:30 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

..the person who won 400 really had fun, while the person who lost 400 just talks about the "fun" but actually feels like crap .



Drinking has a lot to do with it. When I had the
bar, lots of people appeared to be having fun,
and they were. Because they were drinking.

To me, it was boring as hell, it was just nonsense.
It wasn't till I started drinking too much also when
I worked that I started to have fun too.

Gambling and losing isn't fun, but drinking while
you're doing it can be. Drinking can make almost
any otherwise boring activity seem like fun. But
I'm there to win, so I never drink when I play.

Gambling is just an excuse to drink, and vice versa.
The very first thing alcohol does is lower your
ability to concentrate, and lower your inhibitions. So
you lose your ability to make good decisions and
you start making bad ones. All the while thinking
you're doing great. Having fun.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 3rd, 2014 at 9:09:29 PM permalink
everyone under the influence, will the next day proclaim that they played perfectly and just had bad luck. They dont realize they hit the wrong cards in BJ, or didnt see the dealer miss paying them in craps, or even more common, missed the underpayment of their winning bets at roulette. They have no idea.

And you are right, as a depressant, alcohol will depress the brains ability to exhibit dsicipline, exhibit proper decision making, exhibit self control. And even depress the brains ability to feel sadness from losing....giving a false sense of well being. And that false sense of well being is "fun".

this is why people with alot of problems drink alcohol to give them the false sense of well being. So if people drink alcohol and call this false sense of well being to be "fun",,, thats fine

Again, the drinking may be fun, but losing the 400 dollars is not tied to tha t"fun". They could win 400 and have the same "fun"

so saying "i lost 400 but had fun" you are talking about 2 sperate unrelated events

1- having fun
2- losing 400

if the person next to you was
1- having fun
2- won 400

obviously the price of "having fun" was not 400 lost dollars.
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 9:25:09 PM permalink
When I was in Vegas a month ago, I did some
drinking and playing for low stakes. By the
middle of my second drink I noticed my ability
to make sound betting decisions was gone.
I was having fun, though, chatting with people
who were on the same flight as me. We were
chatting and drinking and playing for an hour
and we all lost. But I have to admit, by drink
number 4 it was fun. It was scary how much the
alcohol interfered with my concentration. The
nuance of the game was gone, my finesse was
gone. I was just another schlub making bad bets.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 10:28:40 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

very weak.

I expected better.


the amout of money you lose has no correlation to "fun". 2 people can stand next to each other at a craps table...have the same amounts of "fun", listen to the same jokes, have the same alcoholic drinks, hi-five each other the same amount of times.....and one person after 2 hours wins 400, and one loses 400.



You still care how much you win or lose in 2 hrs? lol....
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 10:30:07 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

When I was in Vegas a month ago, I did some
drinking and playing for low stakes. By the
middle of my second drink I noticed my ability
to make sound betting decisions was gone.
I was having fun, though, chatting with people
who were on the same flight as me. We were
chatting and drinking and playing for an hour
and we all lost. But I have to admit, by drink
number 4 it was fun. It was scary how much the
alcohol interfered with my concentration. The
nuance of the game was gone, my finesse was
gone. I was just another schlub making bad bets.



lol... yeah you really need to be sober to play good roulette. Was your casino war skill impaired too?
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
March 3rd, 2014 at 10:44:14 PM permalink
I never understood having "fun". Maybe I'm a robot but I find making money to be fun. Finding advantage plays, working out deals, and actually playing the promotion is super interesting to me. I could do without scouting though, I hate walking around with no set plan of objectives, but that's where the moneymaker is. I've found myself in casinos I've never thought to go into and found some of the best plays just because I took the time to go in.

Sometimes the dealmaking goes over my head, but I do like being a part of it since there will be stuff coming up where I would take action. As you may know I work with Axelwolf and he has been AP'ing for many years and he's been helping me out but when there are multiple numbers involved I get confused easily. It's hard work but so rewarding and satisfying.

Many people work at dead end jobs or jobs way below their intellect just to pay bills and live for the weekend. I prefer to find a moneymaking opportunity that I enjoy and is very lucrative, at the expense of being on call 24/7 and traveling. Trust me the drive for several hours to remote locations isn't fun since I'm impatient, nor the 8 hour day of extreme boredom followed by 5 minutes of frenzy if a play calls for it.

Also it's a deferral for the future. I prefer to enjoy a night out with $100k in the bank then $1k. You get better things and make better use of your time:money ratio.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 11:10:37 PM permalink
But, DJ, you are a pro. It's different. When a bunch of guys go out and play a pick-up football game, their goals are not the same as NFL players who are playing for a living, either.
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 11:13:08 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

you really need to be sober to play good roulette.



How would you know. All casino games are the
same for you. Walk in, give them your money,
leave. Repeat often.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
March 3rd, 2014 at 11:20:31 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

How would you know. All casino games are the
same for you. Walk in, give them your money,
leave. Repeat often.



Just like it is for everyone who plays roullette
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22272
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 3rd, 2014 at 11:38:56 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I was just another schlub making bad bets.

Drinking had nothing to do with that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
  • Threads: 212
  • Posts: 8277
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 12:50:00 AM permalink
I don't mind if a player says they had fun, but I do mind when the casino claims the purpose is entertainment only because they've chopped so much winning ahead is 2-3x harder.

My main point is just whatever man and don't really care much anymore. Gambling is a personal decision and if you're taking bad risks, it starts with you and also your choice to minimize it. I wouldn't object to more regulations in player's favor though, like 3:2 black jack and 92% minimum payback on slots, to reduce how much this fun would actually cost.
I am a robot.
RonC
RonC
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 4874
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
March 4th, 2014 at 4:11:18 AM permalink
I try to win money every single time I play. I still also try to have fun. I don't understand people who break everything down into "fun" or "serious" all the time--I can be serious yet have fun; I do it everyday. I have a job I enjoy and we have fun at work while trying to make money for ourselves and the owners but we also work hard to do things right every time. I try to win every single time I enter the casino, but I also try to enjoy the time there.
1BB
1BB
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5339
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 4:55:16 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Larry,

Why do you keep harping on this in different threads? You don't gamble for fun or entertainment. We get it. Some of us gamble for fun or entertainment. So what? The best spin I can put on your stance is that you are judging other people's "why" in a negative way compared to your "why". People gamble for their own reasons; they don't have to be yours.



Harping? Is there a history between you and Larry? You certainly seem annoyed with him for starting this thread as indicated by your unfriendly response. Are you speaking as an administrator or as a forum member?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
March 4th, 2014 at 5:13:10 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

Harping? Is there a history between you and Larry? You certainly seem annoyed with him for starting this thread as indicated by your unfriendly response. Are you speaking as an administrator or as a forum member?



Mostly as a member. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago where, for several days, he and EB said almost identical things as in the OP here (with quite a bit of participation in opposing viewpoint from me and several others), Larry posting his same POV about 8-10 times. Then again in the Remember When thread for several posts. Then again in starting this thread. So, yeah, when you say the same exact thing about 15 times, to me it becomes harping on something. I did not realize (and he did not say in the OP which is what I responded to) that he was splitting off this discussion specifically to stop derailing the Remember When thread, which I appreciate him doing; it seemed on initial reading like further flogging of a topic where the horse was already moldy. But no, no history between me and Larry.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
March 4th, 2014 at 7:16:58 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I'm sure that Larry never goes to see a film or a play or a concert or a Cirque du Soleil show or anything like that. Unless he were picking pockets or something, every one of those would have a very high probability of costing him money, and he might have to make some excuse about "having fun" or "being entertained" the way that all the rest of us do. There is no reason to do anything unless you expect to make money at it. Money is the only thing of value in life.



That's very witty!

But while I disagree with LarryS, I can also see where he's coming from. It's not easy to look at life, or activities, through someone else's eyes, frame of reference and experience. People also tend to judge others by their own epxeriences and standards.

Now, I gamble only for fun. Oh, I try to play games that may net me some money, and sometimes I come out ahead or even, but I expect gambling to cost me money. I do not expect my job, on the other hand, to cost me money, whether I enjoy it or not. So if I gambled for a living, and I don't know if this si the case with Larry or not, I wouldn't be so cavalier about losses.

I could also list dozens of things and activities people do for "fun" which I regard as little removed from torture. Like dancing, for example. or things people enjoy that cause me physical distress just to look at them. From time to time I may joke about it, but that's all I do.

Lastly, fun, pleasure, enjoyment and happiness are different things. Related, yes, but different. Moreover pelasure can be physicial or psychological (or spiritual, if you prefer the term). For example, when I cook I don't experience pleasure. It's often hard, laborious work. I wind up, often, tired from it. But I enjoy it. When I eat what I cooked I do feel pleasure. And the satisfaction and accomplishment I feel in making a difficult, multi-step recipe make me happy.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 8:46:57 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

When I was in Vegas a month ago, I did some
drinking and playing for low stakes. By the
middle of my second drink I noticed my ability
to make sound betting decisions was gone.
I was having fun, though, chatting with people
who were on the same flight as me. We were
chatting and drinking and playing for an hour
and we all lost. But I have to admit, by drink
number 4 it was fun. It was scary how much the
alcohol interfered with my concentration. The
nuance of the game was gone, my finesse was
gone. I was just another schlub making bad bets.



If people take enough drugs (alcohol, cocaine, heroin, pot).....they can have "fun" at a funeral. The "fun" is more a function of the drugs than of the activity.

If you werent drinking, believe me....it wouldnt be "fun"...you would be concentrating on your bets, and if your were losing, you would be unhapppy about the losses, and the drunk people around you laughing and acting obnoxious(as drunks will tend to do) would be a burdon to you. Its all about the drug....the activity doesnt matter. With the alcohol, and the same people with you....you could be filing a stack of folders in an office....and you would also have fun.

But your example perfectly explains why casinos give out alcohol for "free".....and the cost of that "freebie" to the general public. It gives them "fun" in exchange for giving up proper judgement,and discipline...and therefore increases their chances for a losing day, and increses the chances for a larger losing day than they would have had if they were sober.

If a boss says to someone..."you can drink alcohol at work any given day, and therefore have "fun"......but you get 100 dollars less each day"......do you go home to the family and say"I got 100 dollars less today at work...but at least I had fun".
I went to the casino and lost xxx.......but at least I had fun".....same crap......just an excuse
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 10:25:04 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS



If you werent drinking, believe me....it wouldnt be "fun"...you would be concentrating on your bets, and if your were losing, you would be unhapppy about the losses, and the drunk people around you laughing and acting obnoxious(as drunks will tend to do) would be a burdon to you. Its all about the drug....the activity doesnt matter. With the alcohol, and the same people with you....you could be filing a stack of folders in an office....and you would also have fun.



LarryS, bit of an ad hominem question here, but not a personal insult by any stretch as your words would indicate you'd take this as a compliment, but: Have you ever consumed an alcoholic beverage in your entire life? I'm just imagining how much LESS I would enjoy filing a stack of folders if I were drunk, especially if I were really drunk. That's what I want to do, drink and engage in the most tedious activity possible when such intoxication is going to slow me down although I want nothing more than to be done doing it.

Quote:

If a boss says to someone..."you can drink alcohol at work any given day, and therefore have "fun"......but you get 100 dollars less each day"......do you go home to the family and say"I got 100 dollars less today at work...but at least I had fun".
I went to the casino and lost xxx.......but at least I had fun".....same crap......just an excuse



I can drink at work if I want to, for the same amount of money, and I usually don't and I've never been drunk while at work...well, there was this one occasion where a blizzard trapped me there for three days, but that's a bit of an exception considering I checked exactly one room in during that entire time...

Okay, if you are arguing that losing money MUST NOT be fun, despite the fact that people pay money to have fun with virtually no hope of RoI, must you also not conclude that a recreational gambler who goes to the casino and wins MUST have had fun regardless of any of the other circumstances?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 11:11:27 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

LarryS, bit of an ad hominem question here, but not a personal insult by any stretch as your words would indicate you'd take this as a compliment, but: Have you ever consumed an alcoholic beverage in your entire life? I'm just imagining how much LESS I would enjoy filing a stack of folders if I were drunk, especially if I were really drunk. That's what I want to do, drink and engage in the most tedious activity possible when such intoxication is going to slow me down although I want nothing more than to be done doing it.
?



funny way of looking at it.

If you get a bunch of people under the influence doing the job oF filing folders.....they would not find it tedious. The folders would eventually get filed incorrectly, in between fooling around, telling jokes, not paying attention to their work, making paper airplanes, shooting wads of paper into the trash basket....or whatever drunk people do to pass the time and "have fun". Just as EVENBOB says at the table he wasnt paying attenton and wasnt MAKING good decisions. he was happy to fool around with his buddies he met from the plane ride. He might as well have been on a stool at a bar with these people. The gaming table was just a prop.
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 11:25:18 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS

funny way of looking at it.

If you get a bunch of people under the influence doing the job oF filing folders.....they would not find it tedious. The folders would eventually get filed incorrectly, in between fooling around, telling jokes, not paying attention to their work, making paper airplanes, shooting wads of paper into the trash basket....or whatever drunk people do to pass the time and "have fun". Just as EVENBOB says at the table he wasnt paying attenton and wasnt MAKING good decisions. he was happy to fool around with his buddies he met from the plane ride. He might as well have been on a stool at a bar with these people. The gaming table was just a prop.



Okay, but let's say that there are no people. You are basically saying, under the influence of alcohol doing one activity, you would enjoy doing any other activity because you are under the influence. I enjoy playing VP by myself while intoxicated, or with others, so would I enjoy filing paperwork by myself? What about putting together a model airplane? I would hate putting together a model airplane, so do you suggest I would enjoy it if intoxicated?

Also, even if we assume people are there, that's not filing and filing wouldn't be fun. Shooting wads of paper into the trash can is just that, shooting wads of paper, not filing, so just because you are doing one thing while you are supposed to be doing the other doesn't mean you enjoy the thing that you are supposed to be doing. Specifically, I would suggest you are doing other than what you should be doing BECAUSE you do not enjoy what you should be doing.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 11:49:47 AM permalink
So you are sayiing that pe people at the craps table that are having fun, telling jokes, drinking, flirting with the waitress, flirting with players at their table, HI-fiving, not reallypaying attention to the betting or getting paid correctly, or if their chips get moved by a rollin die.....the "fun" is from the extra curricular activity....not the fileng but instead the paper airplanes...............not the betting......but instead the drunken interraction with people.So yes they will have fun fileing where the actual filing cabinet is a prop and all the extra activity causes the fun.....and at the tables...the fun occurs with the table being a prop and the extra activity occurring with others.

Alcohol and other drugs give people an artificial feeling of fun. Just as I mentioned, alcohol could allow you to have fun at a funeral.

Just as alcohol can give people with serious problems a temporary false sense of well being....an escape from reality.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 12:50:18 PM permalink
I still want a simple answer to the question:

Larry, why do you play craps?
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 1:04:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I still want a simple answer to the question:

Larry, why do you play craps?



for the same reason I will go to a seminar....to try to gain something. At the seminar its usefull information, at the craps table its money.

Both are a gamble......both i put out money......and whether I gain usefull info or gain money is not guarunteed

If I am lucky i will gain good info at the seminar, and if i amlucky i will gain some cash at the tables.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 1:23:21 PM permalink
So you play a -EV game to try to make money? Let me know how that works out for you.
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 3:45:17 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

So you are sayiing that pe people at the craps table that are having fun, telling jokes, drinking, flirting with the waitress, flirting with players at their table, HI-fiving, not reallypaying attention to the betting or getting paid correctly, or if their chips get moved by a rollin die.....the "fun" is from the extra curricular activity....not the fileng but instead the paper airplanes...............not the betting......but instead the drunken interraction with people.So yes they will have fun fileing where the actual filing cabinet is a prop and all the extra activity causes the fun.....and at the tables...the fun occurs with the table being a prop and the extra activity occurring with others.



Well, let's see, when I said I enjoy playing VP (for an example) alone or with others, you would think I'd have covered that...

I also had a great time playing Craps with the WoV East Crew on Sunday, hadn't had a drop of alcohol in the six days prior or on that day, to that point.

Quote:

Alcohol and other drugs give people an artificial feeling of fun. Just as I mentioned, alcohol could allow you to have fun at a funeral.

Just as alcohol can give people with serious problems a temporary false sense of well being....an escape from reality.



And, if I were drunk every time I had fun at the casino, I'd tend to agree with you.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 3:48:00 PM permalink
I would say that the people with "serious problems" are the ones who play -EV games to win money, not the ones who like to have a few drinks.
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
March 4th, 2014 at 4:18:31 PM permalink
Larry I don't understand why you need to generalize everything. Some people have fun and some people don't. Some people have a gambling problem and some people don't. It doesn't have to be either it is fun or it isn't.

Can't we all just agree to disagree on the topic and let everyone have their own opinion?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 4:45:22 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Mostly as a member. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago where, for several days, he and EB said almost identical things as in the OP here (with quite a bit of participation in opposing viewpoint from me and several others), Larry posting his same POV about 8-10 times. Then again in the Remember When thread for several posts. Then again in starting this thread. So, yeah, when you say the same exact thing about 15 times, to me it becomes harping on something.



You are aware there's a rule to help you out with that right? I dunno if anyone has actually been suspended for that rule though.

I would love to hear Larry logically explain that he is playing craps: "Not for fun, but to win money". Maybe he has already? I stay far away from "dice influencing" threads, so I wouldn't know from posts inside there. I don't have the time (which I do have a LOT of) to keep reading that generally cyclical argument.
aceofspades
aceofspades
  • Threads: 366
  • Posts: 6506
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 4:48:01 PM permalink
I think if you view gambling as a way to make money, then of course it will likely not be fun. I do not have fun when I enter a courtroom - but, it is my job and I will zealously advocate for my client. Whereas, I do go to casinos to have fun (am I upset when I lose, you bet I am…do I perceive it as fun - nope) but, my intention is to go there for fun. If I no longer enjoyed the anticipation of a casino vacation and the fun I have while there, I would no longer do it. I think you are mixing up people who go to casinos for fun and those who go there for work.
aceofspades
aceofspades
  • Threads: 366
  • Posts: 6506
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 4:55:10 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

that is not a logical reply

I do "foolish" things in life...at least "foolish" by your standards.....that doesnt mean I am doing it for "fun"

the world doesnt revolve around your definition of "fun: or your belief that when people do what you dont want to do....is doing it for fun

So the answer is no...I dont play craps 2 times a year "for the fun of it" as you suggest.

Just as I dont go to seminars 4-5 times a year "for the fun of it"

Just as I dont go to association meetings for "the fun of it"

every foolish thing we do in the world doesnt have to have the reason of "fun" behind it.




You just negated your original post. Everyone's definition of tunis different.

End of Thread!
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22272
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 8:00:20 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

I think if you view gambling as a way to make money, then of course it will likely not be fun. I do not have fun when I enter a courtroom - but, it is my job and I will zealously advocate for my client. Whereas, I do go to casinos to have fun (am I upset when I lose, you bet I am…do I perceive it as fun - nope) but, my intention is to go there for fun. If I no longer enjoyed the anticipation of a casino vacation and the fun I have while there, I would no longer do it. I think you are mixing up people who go to casinos for fun and those who go there for work.

It can be very fun, Sometimes when you're tired losing and have been there hours by yourself it can be a grind. However every day usually stars off fun. unless it's been a long sleepless losing play. I try to avoid plays like that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 4th, 2014 at 8:32:51 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Well, let's see, when I said I enjoy playing VP (for an example) alone or with others, you would think I'd have covered that...

I also had a great time playing Craps with the WoV East Crew on Sunday, hadn't had a drop of alcohol in the six days prior or on that day, to that point.



And, if I were drunk every time I had fun at the casino, I'd tend to agree with you.




I am not talking in extremes, as in always as in everytime.

My observation is that alot of time people hide behind the "but I had fun" after a significant loss. Sure you could have "fun" playing a dollar on roulette with a buddy" and drink and hi-five, or not drink and hi-five...doesnt matter.

Its as insincere as all the people on wheel of fortune that do not win anything except the consolation prize at the end....and when the host says "you didnt win anything but we are going to give your 1000 dollars and thans for being here.."....the contestant always responds...."thanks I had a great time". Noone ever seems to be dissappointed they didnt win. No one ever says that they took 3 days off from work to appear and they are actually losing money on the deal.

People dont want to be viewed as losers, or to be hurt by losing..so the always hide behind the "fun" shield.

The sign of many sick gamblers is they love to rationalize losses. 'I HAD FUN" "i deserve to have fun.....afterall somepeople spend 20k a year on a cruise and I just lost 1k this week".or "i really built up good comps/ tier points"......

If you go to a casino by yourself, and have a lively table and hours of male bonding and fun and games, but you end up with a brutal last half hour where you end up losing 500 net on the day. Is the ride home "fun" just thinking back at the good times that just ensued? Realistically. I have been there done that....Inever came home to my wife and pulled the line.....I lost 500but at least I had fun. WTF is that all about.

Its not fun to lose money unless you are drunk and that just depresses your recognition of the situation. Depresses your sad feelings..so that you can giggle your way to sleep.

can people have fun just going and betting small amounts....sure.I cant say what the cutoff is for EVERYONE. Somone who makes 50k a year and loses 600 five times a year.....that is a significant loss. If someone makes 500k then maybe it could be "fun" to lose 500 a few times a year.

In general the people we come accross in our lives are not in the high tax brackets, and are telling us it was "fun: when they lost significant money.
I dont buy it....either they were drunk with the altered sense of "fun"....or they knowing are lying to save face, or they are sick gamblers enabling themselves to keep losing.
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
March 4th, 2014 at 10:48:30 PM permalink
^^^

As for this above:

1) Some people value their time (and average loss) at a casino more valuable than something like a $100/head dinner at a nice restaurant (I know I fall into this category). Are you going to criticize someone spending $200 for a couple on food/drinks for the night as well? There are a handful of non-gamblers that do that regularly.

2) Some people are likely addicted to losing at casino games. Why they are exactly, I cannot explain well. I'm glad for you that you aren't one of these people, which casinos usually depend on.

But do you think putting these type of people down will do anything positive? Especially since most of the active membership of this forum do NOT fall into 2).

And the "but I had fun" comment, is also somewhat of a "cover statement" because it's not standard social protocol to act really angry when you lose a significant amount (to you) at a casino. When you lose something significant to you Larry (whatever amount that is) because your money-making craps rolls don't come in, how do you act in public? Do you curse up a storm instead? Break something? What do you do?
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
March 4th, 2014 at 10:52:16 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

You are aware there's a rule to help you out with that right? I dunno if anyone has actually been suspended for that rule though.

.



Yes, thanks, trin. That was the moderator part. I chose not to invoke that rule, and I felt I'd made the right choice when Larry later said he started the thread to move the discussion out of the thread it was hijacking. I'm assuming positive intent, not excuses.

And, yeah, gr8 was suspended for flooding after a lot of pre-suspension discussion between he and Mission about it. 3 months or so ago. So there's been at least one, and likely a first one that got the rule added as well back whenever.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
LarryS
LarryS
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
March 5th, 2014 at 10:03:48 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

^^^

As for this above:

1) Some people value their time (and average loss) at a casino more valuable than something like a $100/head dinner at a nice restaurant (I know I fall into this category). Are you going to criticize someone spending $200 for a couple on food/drinks for the night as well? There are a handful of non-gamblers that do that regularly.

2) Some people are likely addicted to losing at casino games. Why they are exactly, I cannot explain well. I'm glad for you that you aren't one of these people, which casinos usually depend on.

But do you think putting these type of people down will do anything positive? Especially since most of the active membership of this forum do NOT fall into 2).

And the "but I had fun" comment, is also somewhat of a "cover statement" because it's not standard social protocol to act really angry when you lose a significant amount (to you) at a casino. When you lose something significant to you Larry (whatever amount that is) because your money-making craps rolls don't come in, how do you act in public? Do you curse up a storm instead? Break something? What do you do?




Oh....the old "meaL ANALOGY"

That analogy would be valid if you had a meal for 2 and a couple at the next table had the same meal. You are charged 600 dollars and the other couple charges 200 dollars. Myabe the waitress spins a wheel as to what you get charged. You can have the exact same amount of fun with your meal as the next couple....its just that it cost you more money. Same at the tables. 2 couples can have the same fun,but yet one couple loses 200 and another couple losses 600.

The statement....I lost, but at least I had fun......is immaterial. The loss is not tied to the "fun". There are people who won money at the table that had equal amounts of "fun". You didnt have to lose 600 in order to get "the fun". If you made wiser bets, you may have won or lost alot less, if you had stuck to your loss limit if 300 you would have lost less. The "fun" that is claimed has nothing to do with the loss. The Fun could have been purchased alot cheaper just like the 600 dollar meal that cost the other couple 200.

a more honest statement

"I had fun, but the loss really put a damper on it"
"I had fun, until I started losing"
"I had fun but I lost 3 days net pay and that sucks"
"i had fun, but I could have done without the 600 dollar loss"

but to say..."i LOST 600 but I had fun"......as if the 600 was needed to buy the fun....thats not true. That is being dishonest with yourself and with others. Thats as disingenuous as the game show contestant smiling with no winnings and saying..."its ok I had a great time"....after they had a personal expense outlay of 600 dollars in order to appear.
  • Jump to: