Tracking members points.

Maybe this is a common question for those who frequent casino's much more than some of us rookies. Now, I got my members card, and when I put the card in the gaming machine, I can see where it shows my point total, and how much I have earned and how frequently I earn them. My question is on the table games. The casino I go to, I give them my card when I buy in. They take off with it, and come back and tell me good luck. After that, how do they know how much I spend, or win, and when I get up from the table? Are they watching me more than I think?

Thank you.

Jeremy.

Quote: SkittleCar1

Are they watching me more than I think?

Yep. The floor supervisor is the one who keeps tabs on your avg bet, win/loss, etc.

Wow. That is interesting.
It doesn't seem like there is always someone watching the table. Or is it like an eye in the sky thing?

The eye in the sky is to watch for cheating more than anything else. As for the floor supervisor, he/she is watching more than you probably think, but they do miss things, and that's why tracking is inaccurate at times. Especially on games like blackjack or roulette, where the floor isn't always around. Craps is a little more accurate since there's always someone sitting box.

Thank you for your quick response. I will probably be watching it and more aware now. Now I feel I should tip them. :)

It's the floorman's job to track what you bought in for, what you colored up for, your average bet, and how long you played. What you will find, in practice, is that some floormen are the laziest employees known to man. They will typically enter your first bet and never adjust it. I once started out with a $20 bet and ramped it up to two hands of $150 each. I asked the floor what he had as my average bet and he said "$20."

There are a few things you can do to help you earn comps at table games. First, make sure you hand the floorman your card BEFORE you start playing. You want to be checked into the computer before you play any hands. Second, you might consider making your first bet higher than normal, since the majority of floormen use your first bet as your average. If you find that you increased your bet significantly, you might want to ask the floor when you color out of a game what he had as your average. If he is lowballing you, be sure to ask for a correction.

Finally, one good way to increase comps and offers is to rathole chips. For example, you buy in for $500. Say you're betting $50 a hand. If you can discreetly pocket 2 winning bet payoffs, that's $100 in your pocket. Then if you lose everything in front of you and buy in for another $500, the floor notes that you're now in $1000. But really you're only in $900 because you pocketed that $100. If a floorman catches you doing this, he might penalize your average bet and not give you any credit for additional buy ins. But if you can be discreet about it, why not do it? You don't have any moral or ethical obligation to help the casino track your exact results. Many beginning players rathole chips anyway, just to make sure they leave the table with something.

Casinos are much more likely to offer you nicer invitations to come play next time if they think you lose more than you do.

That is excellent advice!! Thank you very much. This early in my gaming career I am keeping things between $5-$10 depending on the game. I really like the idea of the early high wager to catch them napping.

One other question I just thought of, does it matter if I bring chips(cheques) from other games to the table, or should I go to the cage and get cash, then buy in?

It does matter to some extent, in that they will note you bought for chips rather than for cash, because it affects the table hold, and your rating will suffer a little because they assume you bought them at a different table and the buy-in was noted there. They will still note your average bet at that table, though, not carry it over from the other table. This is an incomplete answer because I'm not in the business, so hopefully someone who does the job will elaborate.

Table games supervisors try to be accurate, especially if you're betting large money. Otherwise they will calculate points or comps based on average bet x expected loss x a certain percentage (non CZR tends to be 20-30%, CZR tends to be about 1-2%).

They try to keep track of you so that you can download win-loss statements online which you can use to support your tax return to offset gambling wins.

Quote: boymimbo

They try to keep track of you so that you can download win-loss statements online which you can use to support your tax return to offset gambling wins.

You really, really shouldn't use those win-loss statements for tax purposes. Keep a gambling diary.

Quote: beachbumbabs

It does matter to some extent, in that they will note you bought for chips rather than for cash, because it affects the table hold, and your rating will suffer a little because they assume you bought them at a different table and the buy-in was noted there. They will still note your average bet at that table, though, not carry it over from the other table. This is an incomplete answer because I'm not in the business, so hopefully someone who does the job will elaborate.

Rating is generally amount bet per hand. They don't rate you better if you buy in for more. Whenever I go to the players club desk and ask what I'm rated at, the answer is always in the form "$x average bet for y hours". Buy-ins and cash-outs are not mentioned. (Although it is true that a host might comp you better if you lose a lot, but that is still separate from your rating -- she is essentially over-comping you if she does this)

They do keep track of total wins/losses, but that's separate from rating. It also doesn't matter, because the table that you left the chips with should have recorded you leaving with them.

The DO need to keep track of whether your total buy-ins or cash-outs for a day exceed $10,000 so they can file CTRs where appropriate, but that has nothing to do with ratings.

Recently at a Caesars property, I used an $80 free slot play coupon and then I bought in for $2000 at a $100 minimum blackjack table. I gave the table supervisor my seven stars card to be rated. I flat bet a single $100 chip for nearly an hour. I was down $800 and then got hot for a few hands and was up $600 in a few minutes so I decided to quit.

At some point during play a new floor supervisor arrived and the one I had given my card to was gone.. Neither must have been paying attention to my table. When I colored up I asked the floor supervisor for a dinner comp, I said $15 would be good for a burger. The reaction seemed odd as if I was asking for so little, but a minute later I had an $18 comp in hand.

Then while in line at the cashier the floor supervisor had come over to show me my average bet and length of play to validate I had been properly rated. On a small form the size of a post it note it had said my average bet was $2000 and my length of play was 90 minutes. I was amused, laughed and then said that's not me. The response was that it was a very good rating. I responded I don't bet that much and didn't play that long, to which the response was, something I didn't' understand and said ok. This was the end of the conversation. I don't know if the person either didn't believe me or just didn't want to correct a mistake made in my favor.

Before leaving I checked my tier balance on a slot machine. It showed 2628 for the day. I had figured my play should have only earned about 200 tier credits. I got the 5000 bonus tier credits the next day. I figured they would have caught and corrected this mistake but they haven't. I normally quit play once I have reached 2500 tier credits in a day as I like to optimize my play for tier credit bonuses.

Quote: supermaxhd

Recently at a Caesars property, I used an $80 free slot play coupon and then I bought in for $2000 at a $100 minimum blackjack table. I gave the table supervisor my seven stars card to be rated. I flat bet a single $100 chip for nearly an hour. I was down $800 and then got hot for a few hands and was up $600 in a few minutes so I decided to quit.

At some point during play a new floor supervisor arrived and the one I had given my card to was gone.. Neither must have been paying attention to my table. When I colored up I asked the floor supervisor for a dinner comp, I said $15 would be good for a burger. The reaction seemed odd as if I was asking for so little, but a minute later I had an $18 comp in hand.

Then while in line at the cashier the floor supervisor had come over to show me my average bet and length of play to validate I had been properly rated. On a small form the size of a post it note it had said my average bet was $2000 and my length of play was 90 minutes. I was amused, laughed and then said that's not me. The response was that it was a very good rating. I responded I don't bet that much and didn't play that long, to which the response was, something I didn't' understand and said ok. This was the end of the conversation. I don't know if the person either didn't believe me or just didn't want to correct a mistake made in my favor.

Before leaving I checked my tier balance on a slot machine. It showed 2628 for the day. I had figured my play should have only earned about 200 tier credits. I got the 5000 bonus tier credits the next day. I figured they would have caught and corrected this mistake but they haven't. I normally quit play once I have reached 2500 tier credits in a day as I like to optimize my play for tier credit bonuses.

Damn, wish I could get that kind of mistake in my favor. Sounds like a Monopoly Chance/Community Chest card..."Casino error in your favor! Collect 7500 Tier Credits."

Here is how things work from a guest ratings perspective as well as from an error/surveillance perspective.

1) It doesn't matter how much money you buy in for with regards to your rating at the game, it matters what game you play, how many decisions per hour and your average bet.
The formula for calculating your theoretical loss (which is the figure they use to calculate your comps) is average bet x game house edge x decisions per hour x total time played. The two important figures here, which are the ones that the floor has influence over is the average bet and the time played. This will greatly affect the final outcome of your rating.

Example: Roulette

Average bet = $50
Time played = 1.5 hours
Decisions per hour = 30
HE = 5.26%

Rating = 50 x 30 x 1.5 x 5.26% = $118.35 (The casino will comp you a % of this amount usually between 5% and 20%)

What if the Floor makes a mistake? (average bet $15)

Rating = 15 x 30 x 1.5 x 5.26% = $35.50.......can you see the difference?

As for ratings and Surveillance we only do random checks on a small amount of the ratings BUt I have come up with a very good system using a software program that colates data to pick up on fraudulent activity. As a player, you may request a ratings check anytime, providing it is within 7 days of the play date so that Surveillance can go back and check your rating. The onus is on you to request this if you are unhappy. Remember your casino comping fate is in your own hands.

If you ask once, you are dumb once, if you never ask you are dumb for the rest of your life.......No idea hwere I heard this quote, but it stuck :)

Playing blackjack at HorseShoe I find I get no more than 200 tier credits for an hour play with $100 average bet at a $50 table. I will sometimes stop for 30 minutes and check my points in a slot machine just to see. When I play blackjack it doesn't seem to earn many reward or tier credits. At least for the HE on blackjack it doesn't seem like a mistake (in most cases) either way would make much difference.

Last time in Las Vegas as my final blackjack bet of the trip (after a nice nights win) I bet $400 (I had been betting $50). Then after max splits and double downs it was a $3200 on the table (largest bet I have ever made). I lost it all. Do the double downs and splits count toward your average? That was one I maybe should have asked about. I don' know it was observed by the table supervisor. Does losing increase tier credit and reward credits?