Money Talks
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100950308
Good luck with his picks!
Does anyone know what sports touts charge? It seems to me that paying someone to make your picks destroys any chance you have of making a profit in the long run.
Quote: mickeycrimmI've only seen one episode so far.
I caught a piece of it. Showed a boiler-room where one of the guys is touting some 'sure thing' type bet [or whatever expression he used]. They cut away right away, but that was enough for me. I hate reality tv anyway
http://deadspin.com/cnbc-is-giving-a-scam-artist-handicapper-his-own-realit-976926638
Quote: BuzzardGuess he ran out of elderly people to scam.
http://deadspin.com/cnbc-is-giving-a-scam-artist-handicapper-his-own-realit-976926638
Back in the nineties I knew a Las Vegas hustler called Black Bart (he wasn't black, he dressed in black) who was a telemarket scammer. He's actually the one who taught me how to hustle credits on the machines. There were legitimate companies in Las Vegas telemarketing pens, matchbooks, napkins, keychains, and all kinds of do dads with company logos to small business' around the country. As an incentive to the customers to buy, one of their techniques was to enter the customer into a sweepstakes.
Black Bart and his associates stole customers lists from these companies. They would call a customer and tell them they won an R.V. in the sweepstakes. But the customer had to pay tax, title, license, insurance, blah blah blah, before they could deliver the R.V. They requested the customer send the money Western Union, and give Western Union this password when you send the money so we will know it's you. In reality the password was so the scammers could pick the money up at a Western Union office in Las Vegas without showing identification.
Quote: mickeycrimmA new episode of Money Talks is on CNBC tonight at 8 PM mountain time. I've only seen one episode so far. These guys look like they know absolutely nothing about handicapping. Their advice sounds just like the advice you would get from any losing weekend warrior in a sports book. They just look like high pressure salesmen to me.
Does anyone know what sports touts charge? It seems to me that paying someone to make your picks destroys any chance you have of making a profit in the long run.
I caught the episode last night and Steve Stevens (Darin Notaro) picked up a mark from New Jersey and drove him around all weekend. If there wasn't additional editing done, the mark ended up making three football bets totalling $44K and made out with a profit of $19K. The games occured Oct. 19-20th 2013.
At the end Steve/Darin makes a comment that his client owes him $8,500. What's not clear is if it is for the picks only, a percentage of the wins (he keeps mentioning throughout the show that his picks need to hit for him to make money), for the amentities he's provided the mark, or a combination of all. I doubt that Steve/Darin is financially invested in the outcome of the game, other than the fact that his mark will see through his scam and not come back if the games don't hit.
Shame on CNBC for giving this guy a show and the priceless advertising that comes along with it.
Quote: MidwestAPI caught the episode last night and Steve Stevens (Darin Notaro) picked up a mark from New Jersey and drove him around all weekend. If there wasn't additional editing done, the mark ended up making three football bets totalling $44K and made out with a profit of $19K. The games occured Oct. 19-20th 2013.
At the end Steve/Darin makes a comment that his client owes him $8,500. What's not clear is if it is for the picks only, a percentage of the wins (he keeps mentioning throughout the show that his picks need to hit for him to make money), for the amentities he's provided the mark, or a combination of all. I doubt that Steve/Darin is financially invested in the outcome of the game, other than the fact that his mark will see through his scam and not come back if the games don't hit.
Shame on CNBC for giving this guy a show and the priceless advertising that comes along with it.
If this is all true then these kind of touts have the best way ever invented to bet sports, with other people's money. They can't lose but are going to get into some short term win streaks and make money. This is a short con. The boilerroom salesman telemarket so hard because they have a huge turnover in clients and need new blood. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the marks go broke if they keep betting through these guys. Paying that kind of commission on the win streaks they would have to win like 75% or 80% of the picks just to break even. We all know that is not possible. The touts wind up with all the money in the end.
Quote: MidwestAPI caught the episode last night and Steve Stevens (Darin Notaro) picked up a mark from New Jersey and drove him around all weekend. If there wasn't additional editing done, the mark ended up making three football bets totalling $44K and made out with a profit of $19K. The games occured Oct. 19-20th 2013.
At the end Steve/Darin makes a comment that his client owes him $8,500. What's not clear is if it is for the picks only, a percentage of the wins (he keeps mentioning throughout the show that his picks need to hit for him to make money), for the amentities he's provided the mark, or a combination of all. I doubt that Steve/Darin is financially invested in the outcome of the game, other than the fact that his mark will see through his scam and not come back if the games don't hit.
Shame on CNBC for giving this guy a show and the priceless advertising that comes along with it.
Stevens (Notaro) and his cronies are freerolling using OPM (other people's money). That's the bottom line to their scam.
Quote: mickeycrimmStevens (Notaro) and his cronies are freerolling using OPM (other people's money). That's the bottom line to their scam.
I seen this OPM principle used in craps. For years (all of the nineties and into the early 2000's) there were box ads in every section of the Las Vegas Review Journal that said "Win $250,000 a Year Playing Craps." There was a phone number listed. I thought the ad was brilliantly worded. Sure, you can win $250,000 worth of bets in a year's time. But holding the casino to it's closest edge you would lose probably $260,000 worth of bets.
Then one day the RJ published an article on the person placing the ads and what his modus operandi was. He didn't try to sell anything to the mark over the phone. Rather he just qualified the mark for bankroll and ask that the mark meet him at a neutral location. One of his favorite places to meet the mark was the bar closest to the craps tables at the Mirage. He didn't charge an up front fee. Rather, he took a commission off the marks win in the first hour of play. I have no clue what his "craps system" was but my thought was "It's a mathematical certainty that a certain percentage of his clients would be ahead after the first hour."
My imagination told me that this system seller was probably also an independent casino host. That is, he had some kind of working relationship with the folks at the Mirage to bring in the marks. The pit bosses or whoever probably took care of this guy very well.
The ads disappeared in the early 2000's. Someone told my that these same kinds of ads appeared in the Atlantic City newpapers.
They're both scammers
Quote: treetopbuddyIn the seasons first episode, he had his client or mark betting 10k then 20k....
Here's a little trivia about where the term "mark" came from. In the old days of the carnivals whenever a sucker dumped a bunch of money and won a cheap prize the carny would rub a finger in chalk then pat the guy on the back while sending him on his way. The white mark on the guys back told the carny's down the midway that he was a live one.
Quote: mickeycrimmHere's a little trivia about where the term "mark" came from. In the old days of the carnivals whenever a sucker dumped a bunch of money and won a cheap prize the carny would rub a finger in chalk then pat the guy on the back while sending him on his way. The white mark on the guys back told the carny's down the midway that he was a live one.
Thank, explains white marks on my shirts
Quote: treetopbuddyVIP Sports is giving away a free pick. Just give them your phone number and they will call you with their free pick. That is so nice of Steve Stevens.
I watch this show with morbid curiosity. On the new episode last night Stevens commented that he gets a 50% commission when a "mark" (he didn't use that word but it fits to me) books a win. If that is the case then the mark isn't laying 11 to win 10. He's laying 11 to win 5. The reason they are telemarketing so hard is they run marks out of money and need new blood. I can't believe I'm watching such a sucker play on a national TV network.
There are a lot of routes to take in the hustle. What do you do if the team doesn't cover and the mark loses? You talk him into doubling his bet on the next game. A negative progression. The old Martingale. That's what Stevens does. This whole thing is comical.
I get that the general public doesn't get it. It takes people with a higher level of understanding of gambling math to see what's going on. But why isn't CNBC taking heat from the high profile gambling experts in the world? Why isn't this scam being exposed?
Quote: mickeycrimmI get that the general public doesn't get it. It takes people with a higher level of understanding of gambling math to see what's going on. But why isn't CNBC taking heat from the high profile gambling experts in the world? Why isn't this scam being exposed?
I watched again last night and thought the same thing. CNBC should be exposed for the incredible disservice they are doing. Giving this guy publicity to run a scam like this is shameless.
Well done sir, I doth my cap to you.Quote: treetopbuddyCNBC features Mad Money so they have no problem with promoting hucksters
Quote: treetopbuddyCNBC features Mad Money so they have no problem with promoting hucksters
I know nothing about the stock market. But I do know something about gambling. Steve Stevens hustle needs to be exposed to the American public. I'm just one little man in Montana. People are going to get hurt by him. The hustle needs to be exposed. Where are all the high profile gambling experts on this? If they don't come out and make statements about a hustle that is old as the day is long then I'm going to be ashamed that good people in the gambling world could have done something but didn't.
Quote: mickeycrimmI know nothing about the stock market. But I do know something about gambling. Steve Stevens hustle needs to be exposed to the American public. I'm just one little man in Montana. People are going to get hurt by him. The hustle needs to be exposed. Where are all the high profile gambling experts on this? If they don't come out and make statements about a hustle that is old as the day is long then I'm going to be ashamed that good people in the gambling world could have done something but didn't.
It's easy for me to see. The great counters are all for this hustle.
Quote: treetopbuddyVIP Sports is giving away a free pick. Just give them your phone number and they will call you with their free pick. That is so nice of Steve Stevens.
If he gives half the people the favorite and the other half the dog then 50% of the idiots will win, which gives him an in....since he has your phone number.
Quote: mickeycrimmIf he gives half the people the favorite and the other half the dog then 50% of the idiots will win, which gives him an in....since he has your phone number.
It's been a lot of years ago and I can't remember his name but he was the purveyor of the Gold Sheet, a sports touting service. This guy's problem was he was an honest man who had to compete against all the huckster touts. So he devised a contest in which he would pay any and all huckster touts $100,000 if they could pick 70 winners out of 100. The hucksters were free to make any picks they wanted to.
So what was the outcome of the contest? The last remaining huckster dropped out after his 25th pick.
Quote: mickeycrimmI watch this show with morbid curiosity. On the new episode last night Stevens commented that he gets a 50% commission when a "mark" (he didn't use that word but it fits to me) books a win. If that is the case then the mark isn't laying 11 to win 10. He's laying 11 to win 5. The reason they are telemarketing so hard is they run marks out of money and need new blood.
One of his employees was charging a 'new' (new client/mark) $250 for the first week of picks. I'm assuming a certain percentage of those win and now they have a live mark. On the same show Notaro/Stevens explains the 50% commission on wins as described by Mickey. What I don't understand is how he knows how much the mark really bets? Unless his 'service' is placing the bets for the clients?
Quote: mickeycrimmIf he gives half the people the favorite and the other half the dog then 50% of the idiots will win, which gives him an in....since he has your phone number.
Yep, oldest trick in the book. The half that lose get a free pick or the fee may be waived. When they lose the chase begins with escalating bets until loses are recouped or the bankroll is blown out. The guy is a world class carnival barker.
See Wayne Root!
ScamdicapperQuote: BozI believe I posted it before but if a Scam Handicapper can run for Vice President of the United States on a ticket on the ballot in all 50 States, then nothing is impossible to believe.
See Wayne Root!
Quote: treetopbuddyYep, oldest trick in the book. The half that lose get a free pick or the fee may be waived. When they lose the chase begins with escalating bets until loses are recouped or the bankroll is blown out. The guy is a world class carnival barker.
I thought the way these usually worked was, he would then give half of the winners (and half of the losers, if he promised a free pick) one team in a second game, and the other half the other team; repeat for a third game. 1/8 of the original marks now have somebody who went 3-for-3, and it's time to charge the big bucks. (Also, 3/8 of the original set are 2-for-3, and might consider paying for a fourth pick.)
Quote: ThatDonGuyI thought the way these usually worked was, he would then give half of the winners (and half of the losers, if he promised a free pick) one team in a second game, and the other half the other team; repeat for a third game. 1/8 of the original marks now have somebody who went 3-for-3, and it's time to charge the big bucks. (Also, 3/8 of the original set are 2-for-3, and might consider paying for a fourth pick.)
Beautiful business model. Straight out of the Steve Stevens playbook. Genius!
Quote:P: What’s your success rate?
Darin Notaro: I hit between 60 to 68 percent all year. But this business isn’t about percentage; this business is all about net profit. Let’s say I give you three games: I give you one for $5,000 that loses, another for $5,000 that loses, and another for $20,000 that wins. So your record was one win and two losses. That’s, what, 33 percent? But you still made $10,000. So it’s all about net profit and money management. It’s all about betting less games for more money. I play one game a day, for or five games a week. People in my industry play three games a day, 21 games a week – and 9 out of 10 times, they lose their bankroll. If you don’t have money management and discipline, you can’t continue.
yikes, this guy should be in jail.
you would need a 67% win rate just to come out ahead after the 50% commission. so hard to believe people fall for this stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5OWh7luL4
Quote: mickeycrimmIt's been a lot of years ago and I can't remember his name but he was the purveyor of the Gold Sheet, a sports touting service. This guy's problem was he was an honest man who had to compete against all the huckster touts. So he devised a contest in which he would pay any and all huckster touts $100,000 if they could pick 70 winners out of 100. The hucksters were free to make any picks they wanted to.
So what was the outcome of the contest? The last remaining huckster dropped out after his 25th pick.
Mort Olshaqn was his name. He died last year, his son Gary runs it now. He also had a Gold Sheet for horses back in the 6o's.
Me and a friend wants to put out a sheet and sell it outside the gate at Maryland tracks. But did not have the 10 grand initiation fee to be split among, Gold Sheet, Green Card and the other two touts.
Quote: ThatDonGuyI thought the way these usually worked was, he would then give half of the winners (and half of the losers, if he promised a free pick) one team in a second game, and the other half the other team; repeat for a third game. 1/8 of the original marks now have somebody who went 3-for-3, and it's time to charge the big bucks. (Also, 3/8 of the original set are 2-for-3, and might consider paying for a fourth pick.)
Learned this trick from this Simpsons. Poor Oakland had to recruit a team of homeless people once Homer bet on them to win because of Professor Pigskin.
Quote: BuzzardMort Olshaqn was his name. He died last year, his son Gary runs it now. He also had a Gold Sheet for horses back in the 6o's.
Me and a friend wants to put out a sheet and sell it outside the gate at Maryland tracks. But did not have the 10 grand initiation fee to be split among, Gold Sheet, Green Card and the other two touts.
He did a great job of debunking the 70% winners myth. And we have a new episode of Money Talks tonight.
So my question is why did this guy do this show, beside the obvious fact that he must be getting paid. It doesn't show him or his business in a positive light and this show isn't going to generate new customers.
Quote:So my question is why did this guy do this show, beside the obvious fact that he must be getting paid. It doesn't show him or his business in a positive light and this show isn't going to generate new customers.
It seems to me that it portrays him committing a serious crime. So why indeed is he doing a reality show? One possibility is that it is entirely fictional.. it doesn't make sense that this operation could exist as presented, spawn a reality show on CNBC, and not get busted.
The "clients" are clearly actors. and I'm guessing their dramatization severely exaggerates the bet amounts (if there is any non-fiction to it at all).
The guy ranting about a player only betting $5000 a game not being worth his time.. ya right.
Quote: chrisrI'm interested to know what the laws are pertaining to what this guys is supposedly doing. You are allowed to sell garbage information for any price using boiler room sales tactics? I would imagine if you are falsely representing how good your information is (i.e lying about win rate) or it could be proven that the information was garbage, you would be committing cut and dried fraud.
The "clients" are clearly actors.
I'm confused now. Are we talking about Steve Stevens or Barack Obama???
I thought that was illegal ?Quote: ThatDonGuyI thought the way these usually worked was, he would then give half of the winners (and half of the losers, if he promised a free pick) one team in a second game, and the other half the other team; repeat for a third game. 1/8 of the original marks now have somebody who went 3-for-3, and it's time to charge the big bucks. (Also, 3/8 of the original set are 2-for-3, and might consider paying for a fourth pick.)
Quote: HowManyI'm confused now. Are we talking about Steve Stevens or Barack Obama???
I was talking about Steve Stevens.
Quote: wudgedFrom the episode I watched, basically he offers his picks to somebody who is willing to bet a lot of money. If it wins, he takes 40%; if it loses, he gets nothing. Basically he's just wagering using the "clients'" money. He wanted one guy to bet 20k on some game, but the guy didn't trust him and only bet 1k. Stevens then complained he only made $400 instead of $8,000. They didn't show if there's some kind of contract the client must sign or how anything is actually "enforced."
How could someone be dumb enough to fall for this?
But then later in the show, when The Steve Stevens guy was dealing with the supposed 'big bettor', they talked about that 40% of his action. I have to agree with Axiom, this made no sense. Forget about juice for a minute. As a bettor, you get 60% on wins (giving 40% to Stevens) and you absorb 100% of losses. Who in there right mind (and maybe this is the key...lol) would go for that.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceHow could someone be dumb enough to fall for this?
Theres a sucker born every minute.
Quote: wudgedI think there are two (or more) class of clients. The "fleas" who pay $250 a week or whatever, and then the 40% "high-roller" clients.
Are the high rollers not smart enough to realize that $250/week is a better deal that 40% of tens of thousands?
Are there really this many people with more money than brains? Where do these people get this much money?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAre the high rollers not smart enough to realize that $250/week is a better deal that 40% of tens of thousands?
Are there really this many people with more money than brains? Where do these people get this much money?
I've seen people at the theatre bid $1500 on a sweaty shirt from Orlando Bloom.
Also $5000! On an autograph poster board with lyrics from a song from Frozen.
Bottom line people have money to burn.
