[A] Casinoboss Answers Your Questions
Quote: EvenBobWhat happened to casinoboss, no posts in more than
3 weeks. I see a bunch of unanswered questions here.
I did not believe there were any unanswered questions. At least any that weren't rhetorical or asinine. If folks want to repost I'm still around.
Quote: TomspurI believe that, depending on your action and also the "loudness" of your objections to certain ratings not being accurate the casino has another avenue. They can ask Surveillance to watch your play and compare that to the ratings that have been input into the system. Then, depending on how honest the casino and its various departments are they will adjust your comps accordingly. I must say that the casinos have a vested interest in being honest because if they are not and they get investigated by the gaming boards only to find that there has been shenanigans it could seriously hurt their credibility with the GB. That, normally is not a good thing.
All players have the ability to make a complaint with the GB's and based on case and agent workload they will try to establish what had happened.
So in my humble opinion it does not serve the casino not to be honest, they just have too damn much to lose on the back end.
You believe, as in you think this occurs or you want it to occur?
Quote: casinobossI did not believe there were any unanswered questions. At least any that weren't rhetorical or asinine. If folks want to repost I'm still around.
what do you think of those baccarat players found not guilty of cheating because they didn't mark the cards? (the dealer marked the cards.)
they just knew the cards were marked (7,8,9) and took advantage of the situation.
note: the prosecution failed to prove a link between the player and the dealer
Quote: LarrySCasinoboss.. I enjoy your comments. Here is a marketing question. I play in reno, and have a high ranking comp card in a casino. I live 4 hrs away in Ca and get many promotional offers for weekend stays, coupled with some sort of event ( slot tournament, enetertainment, superbowl etc).
I do own a home in the area and dont need the free room.(although sometimes we stay to pamper ourselves).
Question: is it in my best interest to relay to someone that I have a home near reno and dont need the free room? Are there different sets of comps for locals? Am neccessarily getting better comps because the casino thinks I am an out of towner....If I tell them I live locally will comps dry up or lessen in value? Do out of towners get better comps?
thanks
The most basic direct mail concept in any industry is called RFML: Recency Frequency Monetary Location
So, location is a factor that affects direct mail offers. I obviously can't speak for your Reno casino specifically but generally, as with most things in life, it depends. In the end I think in aggregate you'd receive less offers as a outer market player but that's really more of a function of the fact that we would not expect one to be able to come in for things like mid-week room and food offers, etc.
Quote: TankoDoes anyone know the average cost per hour to the casino to run
A Craps table?
A Blackjack Table?
For what purposes? I only ask because that will affect what costs I bake in to try and guesstimate a number.
Quote: 100xOddswhat do you think of those baccarat players found not guilty of cheating because they didn't mark the cards? (the dealer marked the cards.)
they just knew the cards were marked (7,8,9) and took advantage of the situation.
note: the prosecution failed to prove a link between the player and the dealer
Can you give me a link?
If what you said is true, then no I don't think they should have been found guilty. I figure the casino may consider banning them but no, nothing you said leads me to believe that anything criminal was done on their part.
Quote: casinobossThe most basic direct mail concept in any industry is called RFML: Recency Frequency Monetary Location
So, location is a factor that affects direct mail offers. I obviously can't speak for your Reno casino specifically but generally, as with most things in life, it depends. In the end I think in aggregate you'd receive less offers as a outer market player but that's really more of a function of the fact that we would not expect one to be able to come in for things like mid-week room and food offers, etc.
I would have expected the opposite to be true. Might as well give very strong offers to players who can't possibly use them. Makes you look generous and doesn't cost you a dime!
Quote: rdw4potusI would have expected the opposite to be true. Might as well give very strong offers to players who can't possibly use them. Makes you look generous and doesn't cost you a dime!
Customers complain often when you do this as they believe there are offers they are missing out of by giving them ones you can't use. E.g., "You sent us an offer for a room any Su-Th. We can't possibly use them. You should be using that wasted money on more free play. Casinoboss, you are an idiot."
Quote: casinobossCustomers complain often when you do this as they believe there are offers they are missing out of by giving them ones you can't use. E.g., "You sent us an offer for a room any Su-Th. We can't possibly use them. You should be using that wasted money on more free play. Casinoboss, you are an idiot."
So give them more freeplay - they can't show up to use that, either:-)
I don't blame you for ignoring those.Quote: casinobossI did not believe there were any unanswered questions. At least any that weren't rhetorical or asinine. If folks want to repost I'm still around.
LOLQuote: rdw4potusSo give them more freeplay - they can't show up to use that, either:-)
Cost accounting is beyond me. I'm sure the casino can assign a certain cost per square foot of floor space from its mortgage/rent/purchase price or whatever. In addition they could allocate a fraction of the lighting bill and a fraction of the Pit Boss's salary and maybe allocate the cost of the cashier and the cost of the waitress and the cost of a craps table.Quote: TankoDoes anyone know the average cost per hour to the casino to run
A Craps table?
A Blackjack Table?
When all is said and done: Its a box man plus four dealers. The Box is on salary (in most places), the four dealers get minimum wage plus tips and meals.
Dual Rates both sit box and stand dealer slots. Not a good system, but often found.
Quote: casinobossCan you give me a link?
If what you said is true, then no I don't think they should have been found guilty. I figure the casino may consider banning them but no, nothing you said leads me to believe that anything criminal was done on their part.
http://www.norwichbulletin.com/news/x997487747/Men-in-casino-cheating-trial-found-not-guilty
Ng and Louie both testified at the trial and admitted marking cards, though neither identified Hu or Leung as anything other than casino patrons. The prosecution promised the former dealers leniency in their pending cases in exchange for their testimony.
so in the future, any strawman can bribe a dealer(s), then the masterminds can sit at the table and make $$$?
and i still cant believe the 2 players werent conviected of conspiracy.
i also cant believe the prosecution didnt tell the jury what conspiracy was?!
Quote: rdw4potusSo give them more freeplay - they can't show up to use that, either:-)
hahahahaha
Quote: FleaStiffDual Rates both sit box and stand dealer slots. Not a good system, but often found.
whats wrong w/dual rate employees?
Rotating through the management position cheapens the player's views of the boxman's authority.
Quote: Beethoven9thActually, most (ignorant) players think that anyone wearing a suit is a Pit Boss.
And this bugs me no end. When I was playing in the
70's and 80's there were pit bosses. There was just
one, not 14 like people think now. Just because somebody
is wearing a suit does NOT make him the 'boss'. They
aren't even called pit bosses anymore, wise up people.
Quote: EvenBobAnd this bugs me no end. When I was playing in the
70's and 80's there were pit bosses. There was just
one, not 14 like people think now. Just because somebody
is wearing a suit does NOT make him the 'boss'. They
aren't even called pit bosses anymore, wise up people.
The pit boss isn't still the pit boss? When did that change?
ZCore13
Quote: rdw4potusThe pit boss isn't still the pit boss? When did that change?
I think he meant that they're usually referred to as 'Pit Managers' nowadays rather than 'Pit Bosses'. Probably a change due to some politically correct BS.
Quote: Beethoven9thI think he meant that they're usually referred to as 'Pit Managers' nowadays rather than 'Pit Bosses'. Probably a change due to some politically correct BS.
I think you're being too kind and he doesn't realize that floor supervisors and pit bosses are two different positions:-)
Quote: rdw4potusI think you're being too kind and he doesn't realize that floor supervisors and pit bosses are two different positions:-)
lol
Quote: rdw4potusThe pit boss isn't still the pit boss? When did that change?
The old pit boss is now called the manager.
I haven't heard the term pit boss in a casino
in over 10 years. You only see it on forums
where everybody thinks every man woman and
child with a suit on is a 'pit boss'. They're really
supervisors or floormen, or 'peons' as I like to
think of them.
peon: A menial worker; a drudge.
Quote: EvenBobThe old pit boss is now called the manager.
I haven't heard the term pit boss in a casino
in over 10 years. You only see it on forums
where everybody thinks every man woman and
child with a suit on is a 'pit boss'. They're really
supervisors or floormen, or 'peons' as I like to
think of them.
peon: A menial worker; a drudge.
mmhmm. Except that there's a difference between a pit manager and a floorman...
Quote: rdw4potusmmhmm. Except that there's a difference between a pit manager and a floorman...
Duh, what did I just say. The manager is the 'boss'
of the floor. Duh again. Hence the word 'manager'.
Quote: casinobossYou believe, as in you think this occurs or you want it to occur?
Ok I guess political correctness has no place here. It does happen in two casinos in Vegas that I know of (one Strip casino and another local joint), simply because I have fist hand knowledge. I'm part of the WD40 that makes the wheel go around. Does it happen in EVERY casino in Vegas, now that I'm not sure of but then I'm not sure you can answer that question either.
Dealer
Dealer/inspector
Floor supervisor (This change was brought around so that we don't call ladies "floormen" :)
Dual rate floor supervisor/pit manager
Pit Manager
Dual rate Pit Manager/assistant casino shift manager
Assitant casino shift manager
Casino Shift Manager
Going one step further also depending on what corporation you work for:
Director of Table Games
VP of Casino Operations
Hope this helps
I believe the terminology is current but I may be off just a little :)
I think you are very close on your estimates of how much an hour it costs to run each of the tables. Maybe a little high on craps.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Casinoboss talks in generalities and code most of the time. He's in marketing, which is generally snickered at by gaming people.
What is casino marketing, exactly. Are these the guys
that tell my wife to come in on Wed between 2-4pm
and she'll get a free crappy blender, and when she
does and they run out of blenders at 2:15 and give
everybody else $10 in free slot play, are these marketing
guys who we see about that?
Quote: EvenBobDuh, what did I just say. The manager is the 'boss'
of the floor. Duh again. Hence the word 'manager'.
LOL! sorry. I was trying to be sarcastic about the repetitive discussion and I just made it worse.
Quote: TankoI asked the question because many of the Blackjack and Craps tables where I play are routinely closed, and the open ones are very often full.
I estimate the cost of operating a Craps table, wages and benefits included, is about $300 per hour, and the cost of operating three Blackjack tables is about the same.
If this is nearly correct, then it should benefit the casino to open a few more tables, considering the potential return.
I think there is a further consideration to this discussion. At what limits do you open the extra tables, in fact at what limits do you open your whole floor at? The cost to company calculation gets made even more difficult when the bean counters tell you that you are not able to open $5 blackjack tables or even $10 blackjack tables due to them not being profitable.....
I have asked the question on many occasions. What would the accountants rather have........10-12% of 10,000 or 10-12% of 500. For the most part, during the recession your lower to middle end players have grown exponentially and they still want to play but at lower maximums. Enter the accountants who say that there is no place on the Strip casino floor for $5 blackjack. I would like for them to quantify for me how many people walking around the floor with $100 of disposable income walk right by the table games when they see $25 blackjack tables only.
Quote: TomspurI think there is a further consideration to this discussion. At what limits do you open the extra tables, in fact at what limits do you open your whole floor at? The cost to company calculation gets made even more difficult when the bean counters tell you that you are not able to open $5 blackjack tables or even $10 blackjack tables due to them not being profitable.....
I have asked the question on many occasions. What would the accountants rather have........10-12% of 10,000 or 10-12% of 500. For the most part, during the recession your lower to middle end players have grown exponentially and they still want to play but at lower maximums. Enter the accountants who say that there is no place on the Strip casino floor for $5 blackjack. I would like for them to quantify for me how many people walking around the floor with $100 of disposable income walk right by the table games when they see $25 blackjack tables only.
Plus there are lots of conditional situations. I know a couple who go to the casino only if they can both play. He wants to play $5 bj, she wants to play $1 slots. It's really not worth opening a $5 table for that guy just to get his wife's losses?
>>>>>Quote: casinobossThe most basic direct mail concept in any industry is called RFML: Recency Frequency Monetary Location
So, location is a factor that affects direct mail offers. I obviously can't speak for your Reno casino specifically but generally, as with most things in life, it depends. In the end I think in aggregate you'd receive less offers as a outer market player but that's really more of a function of the fact that we would not expect one to be able to come in for things like mid-week room and food offers, etc.
Casino boss
thanks for the fast reply. To put it another way, if I told them I am local and dont need a room as a comp(even though I live 4 hours away during the week)...do they have different types of comps for locals that they substitute for the room, like dinner at the steakhouse for example. For example they know that offereing a 80-100 dollar room to a local person is useless,....so instead of a room would I get maybe food instead? I was just wondering if I should even say anything...or just take what I can use as it stands now.
Quote: rdw4potusPlus there are lots of conditional situations. I know a couple who go to the casino only if they can both play. He wants to play $5 bj, she wants to play $1 slots. It's really not worth opening a $5 table for that guy just to get his wife's losses?
I absolutely agree but there are very few if any occasions where the casino only opnes one table for one player. On any given day I would venture that, especially early in the morning you could fill a CSM $5 table but the $15 and above games will stand empty for hours on end but they will still be open.......
Doesn't quite figure but then I'm no casino boss :)
Quote: TomspurI absolutely agree but there are very few if any occasions where the casino only opnes one table for one player. On any given day I would venture that, especially early in the morning you could fill a CSM $5 table but the $15 and above games will stand empty for hours on end but they will still be open.......
Doesn't quite figure but then I'm no casino boss :)
Yeah, that's hilarious, isn't it? My favorite is walking up to a completely empty $25 table in a busy casino, showing a willingness to play for $10, and being denied. Really, they'd rather pay a dealer to watch TV than to deal to me at a lower denomination? Well, OK then!
Quote: rdw4potusYeah, that's hilarious, isn't it? My favorite is walking up to a completely empty $25 table in a busy casino, showing a willingness to play for $10, and being denied. Really, they'd rather pay a dealer to watch TV than to deal to me at a lower denomination? Well, OK then!
The only reason I can think of, and this ties in with the cost per game discussion, is that the Pit Managers and Casino Duty Managers hands are tied due to the bean counters telling them that it isn't financially viable to run $5 or $10 tables.....that really is the only reason I can think of.
Why would you not want to cater to people on the floor? You can always raise the limits a little later and grandfather the lower limit guys still playing in. I would rather face that decision and explain to the current guys why they can't bet at the lower level then not having any business and leaving the casino look like a morgue.
The casino industry took a huge nose dive the day it corporatized, in my humble opinion of course.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI've this exact same situation at about 4am one time. I asked for a lower minimum and was rebuked so I told the supervisor "fine, pay the dealer to stand there and make no money for the casino." I walked by 20 minutes later with the same dealer and supervisor there and low and behold, the minimum was lowered. I told the supervisor "too late", laughed then left. There was still noone playing.
But you will agree that, had someone in the pit been proactive then even at 4AM someone whould have been playing but alas due to reasoning beyond our comprehension here the decisions are no longer made in the best interests of the company but rather follow every rule that non gaming executives spew out just so that you don't get into trouble......
Seems rather counter intuitive to me.
Quote: TomspurBut you will agree that, had someone in the pit been proactive then even at 4AM someone whould have been playing but alas due to reasoning beyond our comprehension here the decisions are no longer made in the best interests of the company but rather follow every rule that non gaming executives spew out just so that you don't get into trouble......
Seems rather counter intuitive to me.
Reminds me of a sales guy my company used to have - he closed deals at a loss, but wanted to make it up on volume.
Quote: ClarkWGriswold5c.
Will AceofSpades one day own The Revel? Lol (sorta)
HAHA - do you know something I don't know...?
A famous Vegas host has claimed comps are on their
way out for craps.
Quote: TomspurWhy would you not want to cater to people on the floor? You can always raise the limits a little later and grandfather the lower limit guys still playing in. I would rather face that decision and explain to the current guys why they can't bet at the lower level then not having any business and leaving the casino look like a morgue.
It was over at Binion's once where I was looking for a 5$ table and they were all closed. I asked one of the guys in the middle if they were going to open a 5 anytime soon and he actually sat me at an empty 25$ table and told me to say that I was grandfathered in, if anybody asked.
...Tipped on the opener for that one, which, in retrospect, I kind of regret since everything went straight down the tubes.
Quote: TankoI asked the question because many of the Blackjack and Craps tables where I play are routinely closed, and the open ones are very often full.
I estimate the cost of operating a Craps table, wages and benefits included, is about $300 per hour, and the cost of operating three Blackjack tables is about the same.
If this is nearly correct, then it should benefit the casino to open a few more tables, considering the potential return.
Sorry for the delay, I've been doing a bunch of traveling.
I don't think you're that far off in a pure calculation but I think the flaw in the assumption is that there are an infinite number of dealers available 24/7 that can be utilized (or not utilized) whenever there are peaks and valleys in volume.
Quote: EvenBobWhat is casino marketing, exactly. Are these the guys
that tell my wife to come in on Wed between 2-4pm
and she'll get a free crappy blender, and when she
does and they run out of blenders at 2:15 and give
everybody else $10 in free slot play, are these marketing
guys who we see about that?
Yep, among other things like direct mail, advertising, casino marketing/player development, entertainment, etc.
Quote: LarryS>>>>>
Casino boss
thanks for the fast reply. To put it another way, if I told them I am local and dont need a room as a comp(even though I live 4 hours away during the week)...do they have different types of comps for locals that they substitute for the room, like dinner at the steakhouse for example. For example they know that offereing a 80-100 dollar room to a local person is useless,....so instead of a room would I get maybe food instead? I was just wondering if I should even say anything...or just take what I can use as it stands now.
If they're not doing this already I doubt you saying this would really affect anything. Mail offers are done by segments of players not an on individual level (a function of limited technology) so just because you say you'd rather XYZ, if we've deemed that your segment is getting ABC then it doesn't really matter.
Quote: EvenBobCasino Boss, you hear anything about craps comps?
A famous Vegas host has claimed comps are on their
way out for craps.
Nope
