REVEL boycott!!!
Was playing in the UltraLounge with another lady ( we were the only 2 playing in the entire area)
Another gentleman came in and they informed him they would be shuffling every hand (apparently he was a known
counter)
So, he walked away...I continued to play with the lady who I am friendly with as well
About 10 hands into the shoe the dealer had an Ace showing, checked the hole card and said NO BLACKJACK
lady at table busts
I have a 9,2 , I double and get a 10
Dealer has the Ace and flips over a KING
Blackjack
she pushes my double down 100 bet back and takes my original 100 bet
I protest stating that, since she played the hand, it should count as a push
the floor person says NOPE, calls over Pit Boss, who says Doug, that is an honest mistake - so I said, sure,
but the game is in your control and, since the hand was played through, it should count as a push
I ask for the shift manager
(mind you, about 20 minutes have now gone by, with NOBODY PLAYING, because only the lady at my table and I
were playing int he whole UltraLounge)
Finally, about 10 minutes later a shift manager comes (now it is 30 minutes without a hand being played on a
Saturday night) and tries to tell me that a dealer mistake cannot benefit me and goes on to state that if the
dealer had accidentally hit a soft 17 and noticed her mistake, they would roll the tape back and repay
everyone's money if nobody notice - I was ready to shout B***S***!!! But I refrained
So, I asked him if all this arguing for 30 minutes was worth the 100 chip and if losing my business forever
was worth a 100 chip - his answer was "Rules are rules"
I stated that it is this type of management that is keeping Revel at the bottom of the barrel
If I were them I might give you the $100 as a customer service gesture, but only after I took it.
Quote: bbvk05Completely fair and the right call on their part. You aren't entitled to dealer errors and it didn't cost you anything extra, like if they had taken your 2nd $100 euro-style.
If I were them I might give you the $100 as a customer service gesture, but only after I took it.
If a completed hand is played, the hand should stand as completed, adding up the cards as dealt, disregarding naturals.
Do you play at Revel?
It cost me the card that was wasted on my double down and, as the onenickel stated, there was no 10 there then it magically appeared?
As a player, we must rely on the dealer's position and whether they have a natural - all of a sudden , cards are dealt that shouldn't have been
Quote: BuzzardDid you tip the dealer before leaving ? That would have been the class thing to do.
Are you serious Buzz?
She was outspoken in defending her action of taking my chip in the 20 minutes it took for the shift manager to work his way over there.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThen her blackjack beats your doubled 21 & you should lose BOTH! Dealers missread hand sometimes or inadvertantly miss what is a ten under an ace. Happens a lot. They made the correct call. And the type or amount of action should have no bearing in their decision.
No, my argument is that the natural should no longer count as a natural once the hand is played.
rooms coming.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces100% incorrect.
And so is the statement by the shift manager that they would go review a tape if a dealer came back to them later and said she thought she hit a hand she wasn't supposed to and won when she should've lost and make sure all players at the tabled were reimbursed (somehow) LAUGHABLE
Quote: aceofspadesNo, my argument is that the natural should no longer count as a natural once the hand is played.
That makes no sense. You just feel like you should benefit from a slight dealer error. If they benefited somehow from the dealer error you'd have a point, but they don't benefit. The only reason they check is for speed. It is still a natural.
Quote: bbvk05That makes no sense. You just feel like you should benefit from a slight dealer error. If they benefited somehow from the dealer error you'd have a point, but they don't. The only reason they check is for speed. It is still a natural.
Why check then? If the dealing of extra cards is meaningless, why bother?
About 10 hands into the shoe the dealer had an Ace showing, checked the hole card and said NO BLACKJACK
lady at table busts"
Ace, let them have it. The casino lied to you.
For all of you who think otherwise. Why do they make the dealer check for blackjack? Mistakes of the casino are not the customers problem.
Quote: aceofspadesWhy check then? If the dealing of extra cards is meaningless, why bother?
The answer is already contained is in my post- they check for speed. It speeds up the game and lowers the amount of time spent complaining about a dealer loss. That is about it. Checking OBVIOUSLY doesn't change the rules, and it isn't an election to 'play the hand' if they miss it.
Quote: DigitalTim"So, he walked away...I continued to play with the lady who I am friendly with as well
About 10 hands into the shoe the dealer had an Ace showing, checked the hole card and said NO BLACKJACK
lady at table busts"
Ace, let them have it. The casino lied to you.
For all of you who think otherwise. Why do they make the dealer check for blackjack? Mistakes of the casino are not the customers problem.
For speed. The mistake wasn't an overpayment or an election. It was a meaningless delay of declaring the natural. You don't automatically receive a benefit just because the casino makes a mistake that doesn't affect you.
Ever been in a casino where they literally run out of cards because the dealer forgot the cut card? I have. It's a mistake that doesn't affect you. They just shuffle the burn cards and deal from that. Should they pretend that the next card is whatever you needed? MISTAKES OF THE CASINO ARE NOT THE CUSTOMER'S PROBLEM! lol... they also shouldn't be a windfall unnecessarily.
Quote: DigitalTim"So, he walked away...I continued to play with the lady who I am friendly with as well
About 10 hands into the shoe the dealer had an Ace showing, checked the hole card and said NO BLACKJACK
lady at table busts"
Ace, let them have it. The casino lied to you.
For all of you who think otherwise. Why do they make the dealer check for blackjack? Mistakes of the casino are not the customers problem.
I already contacted the Borgata, who have invited me there.
Quote: aceofspadesJust got a call from the Exec VP of REVEL who invited me down to teh cage to give me $100 and apologize for the lack of professionalism from the staff.
Tell them you want 4 weekends of free rooms..
Quote: aceofspadesJust got a call from the Exec VP of REVEL who invited me down to teh cage to give me $100 and apologize for the lack of professionalism from the staff.
There is customer service. I respect the hustle but they didn't owe you a damn thing.
Don't tell me it was the principle of the thing. 2 out of 3 times you would not have had 21. And then you would have just shrugged your shoulders and said " OK, her BJ is now just a 21 and I lose $200. REALLY ? ? ?
What did you want her to do? Reach back into her tray and give you that $100 chip ?
If Face reads this, he will tell you she might have been fired as a result. And with cause, meaning no unemployment. And probably blacklisted at other casinos. Hell, gaming could even deny her a license.
Security, per your account, only had 1 table to watch. She made a mistake. You ever made a mistake, Ace ?
I said earlier in this or a similar thread that whatever troubles you had before going to AC would be there when you got back. I can only assume you were not at your best.
Now go WIN.
Quote: bbvk05There is customer service. I respect the hustle but they didn't owe you a damn thing.
AMEN !
Quote: BuzzardOf course I am serious. You were WRONG. If you need $100 that bad, PM me and I will mail it to you.
Don't tell me it was the principle of the thing. 2 out of 3 times you would not have had 21. And then you would have just shrugged your shoulders and said " OK, her BJ is now just a 21 and I lose $200. REALLY ? ? ?
What did you want her to do? Reach back into her tray and give you that $100 chip ?
If Face reads this, he will tell you she might have been fired as a result. And with cause, meaning no unemployment. And probably blacklisted at other casinos. Hell, gaming could even deny her a license.
Security, per your account, only had 1 table to watch. She made a mistake. You ever made a mistake, Ace ?
I said earlier in this or a similar thread that whatever troubles you had before going to AC would be there when you got back. I can only assume you were not at your best.
Now go WIN.
Since when is it anyone else's responsibility for whether or not someone is fired based on their mistake? If I make a mistake in Court and a client fires me, whether it was an honest mistake or not, am I not responsible?
Quote: bbvk05You are responsible for turning a minor no cost error into a customer service snafu that brought executive heat by whining for money you aren't entitled to. That extra heat on the dealer is on you.
Oh horse pucky. To hell with the DarkSide, good for Ace in
getting some money out of them. They think nothing
of screwing us royally every chance they get, Ace gave
them a taste of their medicine. The holier than thou attitude
around here sometimes is amazing. 'The casino is always
fair with me, so I'll always be fair with them.' Naivete
thinking on the hoof...
That's because sometimes dealers make mistakes with the hole card viewer.
Now, I don't agree with either of the above-mentioned policies, because I think they slow the game down unnecessarily and make the Revel look paranoid about dealer errors. But it's exactly for the kind of error that happened in Ace's game that the Revel has those two policies.
In Ace's particular case... I really don't get why he was so upset. Dealer errors happen all the time. If they happen to pay you when you have a 5-card 17 vs her 2-card 18, and they catch the error, they will ask for those chips back. So I really don't see how it is any different than that.
I understand it's upsetting to hit a 21 on a double and then lose the original wager -- because that should never happen. But when the dealer flips over her blackjack, well a blackjack beats a 21, same as a 19 beats an 18. I don't see why you should get upset about one and not the other.
Big Black Viscious King of Ought Five.
Quote: WizardI think this goes to show the value of complaining, preferably nicely at first.
Exactly! They don't play fair and we don't either. Casino's
get what they deserve, believe it.
The dealer got a blackjack and you didn't. You want to be paid $100 because the hole card was flipped at the end of the hand instead of the beginning. I don't know whether to be embarrassed for you or to give you a stern lecture. Experienced players have responded and not one of them agrees with you. I'm in agreement with Ibeatyouraces and Buzz and the clear and concise posts by bbvko5 sum it up perfectly. The image I have in my mind right now is of a two year old throwing a tantrum on the supermarket floor because he can't have a cookie.
The casino didn't refund your money because you were right or they were wrong. They made a business decision that went something like this. "There's a problem in the Ultra Lounge." "Pull up his information and see what we've got." "Oh wow, a black chipper who doesn't use basic strategy and is a regular contributor. We don't want to lose him so go fix it." As an attorney I'm sure you are familiar with frivolous lawsuits being settled because it's cheaper than litigation. That's what happened here. In a previous post you mentioned a beef with the Borgata. Was it because of something similar to this?
No AP would try something like this. There are a couple of members on this forum who would call what you did taking a shot. I do not believe this is what you did. I think this is about who is right and you think it was you. If another AP had been at the table I doubt that the extra scrutiny as well as missing out on 40 to 50 hands would have been appreciated.
Please forgive me for being so harsh but you need a wake up call. Still friends? Good, now tell us why you doubled 11 against an ace.
One casino I frequent doesn't have the viewers, so they deal out all the hands, allow splits and doubles, and then play the dealer's hand out. Blackjack? Return all split and double money. That's the procedure at the casino, I wouldn't have blinked an eye at this situation.
But the player was in a high limit room playing single deck blackjack at the black level. He doubled an 11 vs a 10 and burned a 10 from the shoe that would have been his which betters his chances of winning significantly on the next hand. And the Revel pit took a very long time to settle the matter.
It's a ridiculous way to treat a "black chip" player in the lounge which is supposed to cater to its high rollers. After the ridiculously long wait for an answer, the player should have been given the free play, match play and the $100 back anyway.
The correct play would have been to issue an apology, (but still take the $100), and give ace that 10 he doubled down with for the next hand with perhaps a match play on that bet.
Quote: bbvk05You are responsible for turning a minor no cost error into a customer service snafu that brought executive heat by whining for money you aren't entitled to. That extra heat on the dealer is on you.
That dealer is somebody's daughter and possibly a single Mom. Bad enough she has to put up with the run-of-the mill jerk, now she had to take on Ace. And of course he has to say that his client could fire him if he made a mistake in court. Like that is parallel to this
situation. Surely he does not think she should be fired ? ?
How many decision does Ace make per hour in the courtroom ? And if he raises an objection, does he expect the custodian or bailiff to rule on it, or the Judge ? I was not there so I have no idea how Ace re-acted. Only that at the end he stormed out, vowing to never return.
Did Ace remain seated the entire 20 minute discussion with the dealer ? Or did he stand up ? Of course he would not have raised his voice, would he ? If he mis-spelled a word in a brief, should he be brought up before the bar ?
What do you think the host will write in the dealer's personnel file ?
Hopefully his arguments in court have more validity than his bullshit theory about the BJ should now be counted as a 21. Does anybody really believe if Ace has 20 or less instead of 21, he would have insisted the dealer take his $200 when she tried to push that extra 100 from the DD back to him ?
Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank frequently says " It's all about the money. " In this case it certainly was !
For someone who believe in the rule of law, it was not his finest moment.
Quote: WizardTo be honest, I can see the Revel's side of this. Most casinos have a policy to give players the option to retroactively opt out of the hand if it was fouled somehow. However, that isn't required of them. I think this goes to show the value of complaining, preferably nicely at first.
WIZ - I remained calm the entire time - no shouting, no yelling, just calm and reserved. I told them I would not give them any more business and wished them well.
No answer is an answer !
Quote: 1BBWhoa Ace! Pump the brakes!
The dealer got a blackjack and you didn't. You want to be paid $100 because the hole card was flipped at the end of the hand instead of the beginning. I don't know whether to be embarrassed for you or to give you a stern lecture. Experienced players have responded and not one of them agrees with you. I'm in agreement with Ibeatyouraces and Buzz and the clear and concise posts by bbvko5 sum it up perfectly. The image I have in my mind right now is of a two year old throwing a tantrum on the supermarket floor because he can't have a cookie.
The casino didn't refund your money because you were right or they were wrong. They made a business decision that went something like this. "There's a problem in the Ultra Lounge." "Pull up his information and see what we've got." "Oh wow, a black chipper who doesn't use basic strategy and is a regular contributor. We don't want to lose him so go fix it." As an attorney I'm sure you are familiar with frivolous lawsuits being settled because it's cheaper than litigation. That's what happened here. In a previous post you mentioned a beef with the Borgata. Was it because of something similar to this?
No AP would try something like this. There are a couple of members on this forum who would call what you did taking a shot. I do not believe this is what you did. I think this is about who is right and you think it was you. If another AP had been at the table I doubt that the extra scrutiny as well as missing out on 40 to 50 hands would have been appreciated.
Please forgive me for being so harsh but you need a wake up call. Still friends? Good, now tell us why you doubled 11 against an ace.
I did not want to be paid - I wanted it to be a push, as the hand had been played and I felt (yes, I felt) that the right thing to do was to have the hand declared a push. The dealer got irate when I suggested this, as did the pit boss, as did the shift manager. I remained calm and explained my side. When I asked if that was their final decision, I wished them well and left the area. All I did after that was email the CEO telling him that I felt that things should have been handled differently. The VP of marketing then called me at 12:15am to offer me what they did. I was up in the room watching tv at the time.
Quote: aceofspadesWIZ - I remained calm the entire time - no shouting, no yelling, just calm and reserved. I told them I would not give them any more business and wished them well.
That does not mean your interpretation was correct.
Quote: 1BBWhoa Ace! Pump the brakes!
The dealer got a blackjack and you didn't. You want to be paid $100 because the hole card was flipped at the end of the hand instead of the beginning. I don't know whether to be embarrassed for you or to give you a stern lecture. Experienced players have responded and not one of them agrees with you. I'm in agreement with Ibeatyouraces and Buzz and the clear and concise posts by bbvko5 sum it up perfectly. The image I have in my mind right now is of a two year old throwing a tantrum on the supermarket floor because he can't have a cookie.
The casino didn't refund your money because you were right or they were wrong. They made a business decision that went something like this. "There's a problem in the Ultra Lounge." "Pull up his information and see what we've got." "Oh wow, a black chipper who doesn't use basic strategy and is a regular contributor. We don't want to lose him so go fix it." As an attorney I'm sure you are familiar with frivolous lawsuits being settled because it's cheaper than litigation. That's what happened here. In a previous post you mentioned a beef with the Borgata. Was it because of something similar to this?
No AP would try something like this. There are a couple of members on this forum who would call what you did taking a shot. I do not believe this is what you did. I think this is about who is right and you think it was you. If another AP had been at the table I doubt that the extra scrutiny as well as missing out on 40 to 50 hands would have been appreciated.
Please forgive me for being so harsh but you need a wake up call. Still friends? Good, now tell us why you doubled 11 against an ace.
BEcause once the dealer checks the hole card and does not have the Ace, I took a shot!!! Then, I took another shot - and am now +400 because of it. it all comes down to money in the casino world, they want yours and you want theirs, aside from doing anything illegal, it is a MAchiavellian situation. Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage other players frown upon it but yet have no problem with the casino having an unfair advantage from the get-go?
Quote: BuzzardI will take your word for that, Ace. Now had you 20 instead of 21, would you have insisted the dealer take the entire $200 ?
No answer is an answer !
Bob - I wil answer it this way and you may take it as a non-answer - the casino controls every aspect of the game - we are not allowed to touch the cards or the chips until they are in front of us - they have a team of security, pit bosses, floor managers, etc. all on their side - am I now supposed to ensure everyone is doing their job and they always are correct in paying or not paying as well? Where is my team of personnel?
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Do you really need that questioned answered ?
Quote: BuzzardWhy is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage other players frown upon it but yet have no problem with the casino having an unfair advantage from the get-go?
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Why is it when a player seeks to gain an unfair advantage
Do you really need that questioned answered ?
I have no issue with this at all - the casino has an unfair advantage over all of us.
In the realm of slot play, we have NEVER heard of a casino saying a jackpot is void due to a malfunction...when no malfunction existed...right?
We have NEVER heard of a casino supplying pain meds for someone's back problems without seeing a doctor or prescription and having them play while drugged and lose millions of dollars...have we?
So the casino can have an unfair advantage when they control all aspects but the player cannot complain over an issue of whether a hand should be voided?
