ez pai gow
The first installs used a multi-winner table at 2,000:1 (same edge), to limit worst case scenario variance.
When offering a number of paytable options, different customers choose the configurations they want with the product.
I simply do not understand why the borgata keeps adding EZPGP when clearly it's not as popular a game.
Quote: sodawaterI simply do not understand why the borgata keeps adding EZPGP when clearly it's not as popular a game.
Well perhaps Dan can come up with a better Pai Gow game for his new employer. I'd bet he's working on one as we speak.
Quote: MathExtremistWell perhaps Dan can come up with a better Pai Gow game for his new employer. I'd bet he's working on one as we speak.
why fix what isn't broken? greed.
hey guess what, PGP players like to bank.
Quote: sodawaterwhy fix what isn't broken? greed.
hey guess what, PGP players like to bank.
And paigow players do not like to pay the commission. Time will tell which is more important to more players.
But I think your characterization of 'greed' is unfair. The two games are very similar in house edge.
Any new game is put on the casino floor to make the casino money. EZPaiGow is one of them.
Quote: sodawateri would just like to say that once again, at 1 am last saturday, the borgata had 2 completely empty EZPGP tables and one full fortune PGP table with 2 people waiting behind to play it.
I simply do not understand why the borgata keeps adding EZPGP when clearly it's not as popular a game.
Actually, it is indeed a more popular game. Other reports posted here had claimed the absolute opposite of what you say, - that it gets more action. Indeed, I view some reports more seriously, some reports less seriously, and many comments as just shots taken at me. Seen it a million times.
Now, I get all sorts of anecdotal reports, so I end looking at and listening to the reports from the real Casino Operators, and I consider what THEY say.
The reports we get from actual casino executives at the Borgata Casino indicate that it out drops and out performs Fortune, so any comment "it's going this way" or "that way" is taken with a grain of salt. We look at actual numbers.
For all we know, the Borgata may fully convert to EZ Pai Gow.
Quote: sodawaterwhy fix what isn't broken? greed. hey guess what, PGP players like to bank.
Easy does it Soda....the game is clearly popular, you don't get to 50+ Installations and have Caesar's Entertainment decide to go company-wide with installations with a game that isn't working (all announced last October in DEQ's Q3 conference call). My guess is that there will be 75+ installs announced as of 11/30/12, DEQ's Fiscal Year End.
I get that you may not like it EZ PGP, but you are out of touch if you think that EZ PGP isn't a good fix that is being widely accepted as a replacement for some commission based PGP tables currently out there.
The game is taking market share from Fortune and Emperor's Challenge, I doubt that it will eliminate these games, but it certainly presents a new challenge to the pit real estate they currently occupy. I see pits having both EZ PGP and either Fortune or EC....the players will decide if they want to pay commissions each hand/bank or test the frequency of the Queen High Dealer hand. The votes won't be unanimous, but they don't have to be for EZ PGP to continue to prosper.
Quote: rdw4potusWe all know how it goes: one table, say it's EZ PGP, shows a dealer SF/AA. And the players ALL migrate to Fortune. Then one guy sits at EZ PGP, and the dealer pulls 5 straight king-high pai-gows. And the other players trickle over. Then the Fortune dealer gets a monser and the Fortune table is frozen out. Same thing happens on bacc all day every day.
I agree, this is what happens - on Bacc or Pai Gow - as everyone is looking for the hot table, and trying to avoid the "hot dealer."
The no commission aspect does play a role, though is not that major for $5 players paying 25 cents in commission; for green action players and above, the effect is stronger.
Quote: PaigowdanI agree, this is what happens - on Bacc or Pai Gow - as everyone is looking for the hot table, and trying to avoid the "hot dealer."
The no commission aspect does play a role, though is not that major for $5 players paying 25 cents in commission; for green action players and above, the effect is stronger.
What's the difference in hands/hour for standard commission Pai Gow vs. EZPGP?
Quote: MathExtremistWhat's the difference in hands/hour for standard commission Pai Gow vs. EZPGP?
between 15% to 25% - depending on the amount and severity of "commission breakage" type bets. Players who are betting $20 or $40, and having one or two white chip commissions ready, then EZ Pai Gow is only slightly faster.
But if you have players betting amounts of $25, $35, $85 dollars, etc., - where both white chips and 25c pieces are needed for change, and where the dealer is calculating more, then EZ Pai Gow is much faster.
The added hands per hour really help.
Quote: Paigowdanbetween 15% to 25% - depending on the amount and severity of "commission breakage" type bets. Players who are betting $20 or $40, and having one or two white chip commissions ready, then EZ Pai Gow is only slightly faster.
But if you have players betting amounts of $25, $35, $85 dollars, etc., - where both white chips and 25c pieces are needed for change, and where the dealer is calculating more, then EZ Pai Gow is much faster.
The added hands per hour really help.
I always feel like some houses shoot themselves in the foot here. Of course, EZ PGP is the best possible solution. But also, for the standard game, $20/hand min is almost certainly more profitable than $25/hand min. Lots of places put the game at $25, I suppose to use greens, but seem to forget about the time lost due to handling coins.
Quote: Paigowdanbetween 15% to 25% - depending on the amount and severity of "commission breakage" type bets. Players who are betting $20 or $40, and having one or two white chip commissions ready, then EZ Pai Gow is only slightly faster.
But if you have players betting amounts of $25, $35, $85 dollars, etc., - where both white chips and 25c pieces are needed for change, and where the dealer is calculating more, then EZ Pai Gow is much faster.
The added hands per hour really help.
I always feel like some houses shoot themselves in the foot here. Of course, EZ PGP is the best possible solution. But also, for the standard game, $20/hand min is almost certainly more profitable than $25/hand min. Lots of places put the game at $25, I suppose to use greens, but seem to forget about the time lost due to handling coins.
Quote: rdw4potusI always feel like some houses shoot themselves in the foot here. Of course, EZ PGP is the best possible solution. But also, for the standard game, $20/hand min is almost certainly more profitable than $25/hand min. Lots of places put the game at $25, I suppose to use greens, but seem to forget about the time lost due to handling coins.
Thank you, really! I appreciate the kind words!
Anyway, I agree that casino Houses do make this mistake, thinking in terms of "Green+" tables versus $20.
First of all, this limit gives FIVE hands per $100 buy-in, NOT four, in case of a bad starting streak.
Secondly, the players may still think of it as a "red" table - more acceptable.
And third, the tables can STILL operate as a "green" $25 table in a sense, as the dealer pays a winning hand with a quarter, and takes a nickel back, when the player hits a streak and amasses a lot of nickels - to "green up" a player anyway.
Working in casino operations, there was a lot of: "it's ALWAYS been done this way," as well as a lot of, "why rock the boat! Dummy up and deal.." yada, yada, yada. What can I tell ya.
Quote: rdw4potusLots of places put the game at $25, I suppose to use greens, but seem to forget about the time lost due to handling coins.
Caesars AC had a yellow $20 chip. They got rid of them when they went to $25 min.
Quote: FatGeezusCaesars AC had a yellow $20 chip. They got rid of them when they went to $25 min.
Horseshoe Southern Indiana uses brown&tan $20 chips. It works well. I bet $20 chips an a $20 min results in a higher theoretical hold than $25 chips with a $25 minimum. The additional hands/hour should make up for the lower minimum.
Here's what I noticed:
- The Queen's dragon paid 50:1 (Q high Pai Gow).
- The Dynasty pay table matched the Fortune pay tables at the other Pai Gow Tables with the Royal paying 125 instead of 150. (Fortune Pay Table 4).
- They had the complex screen up that displayed the number of hands since a "Dynasty event" and the number of hands since a "dragon event". The button that the dealer had to press on the huge controller was a little bit unwieldly I thought.
- There were significantly more hands per hour being dealt (once the dealers got used to dealing).
- The printing on the table was way too small to read (the pay tables for Dynasty and Q dragon) even for a 20:20 person like me.
- The dealers reported "this is a pretty easy game to deal" and once they got into the routine of realizing that they just paid the bet straight up it was much faster.
- The dealers reported "I'm used to putting a puck on my cards" and asked the pit why there wasn't a puck!
I really liked the game, and similar to other Pai Gow games, people travelled to other tables when the dealer had killer hands. This included Asians.
Over about 2 hours of play, I won $15. No quarters or $1 chips. The Q high only came up once, and a player was relieved as he only had a J high!!!
I'll be playing again.
Quote: bigfoot66I played this game Thursday morning and I lucked out as I got the Q high Pai Gow when I was banking; It was nice to not have to pay out on a crap hand.
Where did you play where it doesn't revert to a standard PGP game when the player banks? Does the house collect some sort of per-hand fee when you bank?
Quote: bigfoot66I played this game Thursday morning and I lucked out as I got the Q high Pai Gow when I was banking; It was nice to not have to pay out on a crap hand.
Where did you play where it doesn't revert to a standard PGP game when the player banks? Does the house collect some sort of per-hand fee when you bank?
Quote: boymimboDan, I hit Fallsview in Niagara Falls yesterday and played your game! Apparently, it was just installed a few days ago. Congratulations!!!
Here's what I noticed:
- The Queen's dragon paid 50:1 (Q high Pai Gow).
- The Dynasty pay table matched the Fortune pay tables at the other Pai Gow Tables with the Royal paying 125 instead of 150. (Fortune Pay Table 4).
- They had the complex screen up that displayed the number of hands since a "Dynasty event" and the number of hands since a "dragon event". The button that the dealer had to press on the huge controller was a little bit unwieldly I thought.
- There were significantly more hands per hour being dealt (once the dealers got used to dealing).
- The printing on the table was way too small to read (the pay tables for Dynasty and Q dragon) even for a 20:20 person like me.
- The dealers reported "this is a pretty easy game to deal" and once they got into the routine of realizing that they just paid the bet straight up it was much faster.
- The dealers reported "I'm used to putting a puck on my cards" and asked the pit why there wasn't a puck!
I really liked the game, and similar to other Pai Gow games, people travelled to other tables when the dealer had killer hands. This included Asians.
Over about 2 hours of play, I won $15. No quarters or $1 chips. The Q high only came up once, and a player was relieved as he only had a J high!!!
I'll be playing again.
Curious, do you know if they removed one the "Emperor's Challenge" games or a "Fortune" game to make room, or did they just add as a new table?
No player-banking I assume?
Quote: boymimboIIRC they removed a regular game I think (all PGP games have fortune at Fallsview). The Emporer's Challenge game is still there. The EZ PGP is in the central pit on the right hand side between Emporer's Challenge and Tiles. No banking, hence no puck.
It'll be interesting: let them all battle it out!
My favorite side-bet version is a $5 Progressive that routinely has jackpots over 200k: all of the Detroit casinos have them.
I would like to try EZ Pai Gow if it comes to a casino I play at.
We'll see if it gets an install in this location...
I hope so! Sounds very fine. I am optimistic, the game is doing well with great performacne in AZ and the midwest.
