Is this BJ format unusual for a casino?
March 14th, 2010 at 6:25:27 AM
permalink
The local Indian casino has a two deck table where they deal both cards face up instead of face down for the player. This seems like it would be very beneficial for a card counter. I asked them why they do it and it is basically because none of the dealers can deal that format without messing it up, or something weird like that. You can double down on any split and double down on any combo, first two cards of course, and the dealer has to hit on soft 17. They don't allow surrender.
March 14th, 2010 at 8:08:30 AM
permalink
It sounds like double exposure. I THINK the Stratosphere still has it, and there might be one or two other LV joints that have it. The Wiz's main site will have info in it.
It's a very nice game for everyone who can count to 21, not just counters. The fatal flaw is that the house wins all ties. If your local Native American casino does not, and they don't have any silly per-hand fees, I would suggest borrowing all the money you can and moving nearby.
It's a very nice game for everyone who can count to 21, not just counters. The fatal flaw is that the house wins all ties. If your local Native American casino does not, and they don't have any silly per-hand fees, I would suggest borrowing all the money you can and moving nearby.
March 14th, 2010 at 8:15:20 AM
permalink
There are casinos that deal double-deck face up so you never touch the cards. El Cortez is a good example. I think there are a few strip properties who deal their two-deckers this way, too.
March 14th, 2010 at 10:22:18 AM
permalink
A casino near me in West Virginia (non-Indian) also has face-up DD. I asked and the pitboss said it's due to the WV Lottery Commission not allowing hand-dealt BJ games.
The rules are almost exactly the same as their regular 8-deck shoe games, except that you can only split twice (3 hands) instead of 3 times. Funny thing is, a lot of players stay away from them because "they shuffle so often, it's impossible to get a good flow of cards." :rolleyes: :-)
The rules are almost exactly the same as their regular 8-deck shoe games, except that you can only split twice (3 hands) instead of 3 times. Funny thing is, a lot of players stay away from them because "they shuffle so often, it's impossible to get a good flow of cards." :rolleyes: :-)
"I believe I've passed the age/of consciousness and righteous rage/I've found that just surviving was a noble fight...
I once believed in causes too/I had my pointless point of view/And life went on no matter who was wrong or right..." --Billy Joel
March 14th, 2010 at 11:05:50 AM
permalink
Which casino, Mountaineer, Wheeling or Tri-State?
I'm surprised counters haven't destroyed that game by now.
I'm surprised counters haven't destroyed that game by now.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
March 14th, 2010 at 11:19:25 AM
permalink
I have seen this in Lac du Flambeau, WI. I am a low roller, and they offer this game for $5 on weekdays. The penetration is about 50% (that may be normal, I have never played double-deck pitch, so I wouldn't know.) Since it is 50%, and $200 maximum, with .40 house edge I think it would be tough to get much of an advantage, but I don't know how to card count so I could be wrong.
March 14th, 2010 at 11:22:23 AM
permalink
Forgot to mention, the reason I have heard for them dealing this game face up is because they had problems with players trying to mark cards. One time a dealer remarked that "This game would be an easy target for a counter, and this is the only place in North America you can find a shoe dealt two-deck game." Guess he hasn't been to every casino.
March 14th, 2010 at 11:51:13 AM
permalink
Quote: fremont4everIt sounds like double exposure. I THINK the Stratosphere still has it, and there might be one or two other LV joints that have it. The Wiz's main site will have info in it.
It's a very nice game for everyone who can count to 21, not just counters. The fatal flaw is that the house wins all ties. If your local Native American casino does not, and they don't have any silly per-hand fees, I would suggest borrowing all the money you can and moving nearby.
I may be stopping by there tonight to play some BJ at their 8 deck table, so I'll inquire with the dealer about those two points.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:57:39 PM
permalink
Never mind, it looks like I'm wrong. Sorry. This is NOT double exposure, where the DEALER gets HIS two cards dealt face up.
I think I've seen double deck games dealt face up, but don't ask me where or when. It is pretty unusual. Most casinos seem to think players like to hold the cards, which is why that awful 6:5 game is so popular.
This doesn't affect the house edge, but does make it easier for counters, as stated. With 50% penetration, it's not a big deal.
I think I've seen double deck games dealt face up, but don't ask me where or when. It is pretty unusual. Most casinos seem to think players like to hold the cards, which is why that awful 6:5 game is so popular.
This doesn't affect the house edge, but does make it easier for counters, as stated. With 50% penetration, it's not a big deal.
March 14th, 2010 at 2:42:07 PM
permalink
I think double exposure has gone the way of the dodo bird here in Vegas. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Stratosphere took it out. That last time I saw the game was a few months ago at a casino in Phoenix.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 20th, 2010 at 9:39:22 AM
permalink
Quote: teddysWhich casino, Mountaineer, Wheeling or Tri-State?
I'm surprised counters haven't destroyed that game by now.
Wheeling. The rules are indeed very attractive to counters...but the table max is only $300, so it would be tough to make a lot of money on it. Also, the penetration varies wildly...some dealers are very generous and deal out about 3/4 of the shoe, but others will cut out 1/2 the cards or even more.
Quote: WizardI think double exposure has gone the way of the dodo bird here in Vegas. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Stratosphere took it out. That last time I saw the game was a few months ago at a casino in Phoenix.
MGM Grand Detroit still has it, at least as of January 2010.
"I believe I've passed the age/of consciousness and righteous rage/I've found that just surviving was a noble fight...
I once believed in causes too/I had my pointless point of view/And life went on no matter who was wrong or right..." --Billy Joel
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:58:36 PM
permalink
I stopped by Wheeling and played this game today. The dealer was cutting about 75-80% into the deck. I tried counting a little. Everybody was betting light to heavy green. Didn't seem to be any attention from the pit. Could probably spread from $15-$150 without any heat. If I lived closer I would try to perfect my counting game here.
------------------------------------------------------
Also, there were people betting insane amounts of money on the craps table at 10 A.M. I mean $500-$700 a number. Multiple players. Didn't know Wheeling was full of such high rollers.
------------------------------------------------------
Also, there were people betting insane amounts of money on the craps table at 10 A.M. I mean $500-$700 a number. Multiple players. Didn't know Wheeling was full of such high rollers.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:08:34 PM
permalink
The other thing that gets me about Wheeling's DD game is it's almost always at the LOWEST limit available for a given time (weekdays, $5, weekends, 10-15). I play poker there and have always wanted to play blackjack but the DD table is ALWAYS full.
I think that it's actually smart to put such a great game at such a low limit. It keeps card counters at bay, while always guaranteeing a full table. I've found Wheeling Island to have some gems like that throughout the entire casino too, although the carnival games do tend to have the worst paytables for bonuses and such.
I think that it's actually smart to put such a great game at such a low limit. It keeps card counters at bay, while always guaranteeing a full table. I've found Wheeling Island to have some gems like that throughout the entire casino too, although the carnival games do tend to have the worst paytables for bonuses and such.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
