Obamacare
Hooray! It's good to be the king..
Quote: EvenBobObamacare has essentially been repealed. Trump said, “The individual mandate is being repealed. When the individual mandate is being repealed that means Obamacare is being repealed because they get their money from the individual mandate. So the individual mandate is being repealed. So in this bill not only do we have massive tax cuts and tax reform, we have essentially repealed Obamacare.
Hooray! It's good to be the king..
I don't agree with fining someone if they don't purchase a certain product, but I'm wondering what effect this will have on premiums for people outright purchasing Health Insurance on the marketplace.
Quote: EvenBob
Hooray! It's good to be the king..
Sure is! I am up 100% since the thing passed.
This is literally a 100% lie from either you, or her doctor. Not saying the form didn't exist, but that the doctor made it up and/or lied to her about it.Quote: EvenBob...Welcome to Socialism, and this is just the start.
...so which one of you is the liar? Because it's hilariously not true.
Quote: RomesThis is literally a 100% lie from either you, or her doctor. Not saying the form didn't exist,
It existed and still exists.
Again, that wasn't my primary argument nor concern. It was that you're spreading that this is Obamacare, when it's literally your doctors office lying. Also, ANY gov form I've ever seen that has race/religion/etc it's all OPTIONAL to fill out... but yeah, ASSuming EB wouldn't straight lie to us, then you have a crappy doctor that's LYING to his patients for whatever reason.Quote: EvenBobIt existed and still exists.
Quote: Romesit's literally your doctors office lying. .
Sorry, no..
Quote: EvenBob... The individual mandate is being repealed ...
HOORAY!
The individual mandate was extortion and I am happy to see it go.
Quote: RomesAgain, that wasn't my primary argument nor concern. It was that you're spreading that this is Obamacare, when it's literally your doctors office lying. Also, ANY gov form I've ever seen that has race/religion/etc it's all OPTIONAL to fill out... but yeah, ASSuming EB wouldn't straight lie to us, then you have a crappy doctor that's LYING to his patients for whatever reason.
There may some clues in Affordable Care Act, Section 4302....
Quote: IbeatyouracesGood riddance to this fraud!
The next government fraud that needs to go is Social Security!
Quote: RomesAlso, ANY gov form I've ever seen that has race/religion/etc it's all OPTIONAL to fill out...
HMDA disclosure on mortgage applications. In a face-to-face application if the borrower does not disclose then the person taking the application is REQUIRED TO GUESS the race. At least it was this way as of 2005.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe next government fraud that needs to go is Social Security!
Can I get my share back before we get rid of it?
Quote: TigerWuCan I get my share back before we get rid of it?
Yep.
EDIT: Okay, I just did a little research and up until the 80's, federal employees didn't pay into SS. Then I guess the law changed and they could either stay with the old plan or go with a new plan that involved SS. My dad stayed with the old plan.
Quote: JBHOORAY!
The individual mandate was extortion and I am happy to see it go.
So now we're back to paying for people who can't afford to pay in the emergency rooms and now will have people who didn't bother to insure and may not ever be able to pay without insurance if they bet badly on their future health.
Unless you're not paying taxes, who is paying for this extra cost?
Quote: rxwineQuote: JBHOORAY!
The individual mandate was extortion and I am happy to see it go.
So now we're back to paying for people who can't afford to pay in the emergency rooms and now will have people who didn't bother to insure and may not ever be able to pay without insurance if they bet badly on their future health.
Unless you're not paying taxes, who is paying for this extra cost?
So you are saying I can go to the E/R and never pay? They will not attempt collections? WOW!
To any who supported Obamacaere, if it was so good, why did I have to buy it at the point of a gun?
Quote: AZDuffman[So you are saying I can go to the E/R and never pay? They will not attempt collections? WOW!
I didn't say for a runny nose. And yes you can't get money from people who don't have it. Or may never have it at their income level if the bill is high. Also include people who become severely disabled from disease or accident and can't work.
Quote:The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
Quote: AZDuffman
To any who supported Obamacaere, if it was so good, why did I have to buy it at the point of a gun?
In theory, the point of making everyone buy is so that there would be enough money in the system to cover everyone, regardless of any pre-existing conditions, and at cheaper rates overall. That's how it was SUPPOSED to work; basically a privatized version of universal healthcare. Why it isn't working that way is something I can't speculate on because it's probably way more complicated than anyone in this forum is aware of. All I know is my wife's premiums have been all over the map from year to year, despite her being on the exact same plan since day one, so I don't know what's going on there.
Quote: TigerWuIn theory, the point of making everyone buy is so that there would be enough money in the system to cover everyone, regardless of any pre-existing conditions, and at cheaper rates overall. That's how it was SUPPOSED to work; basically a privatized version of universal healthcare. Why it isn't working that way is something I can't speculate on because it's probably way more complicated than anyone in this forum is aware of. All I know is my wife's premiums have been all over the map from year to year, despite her being on the exact same plan since day one, so I don't know what's going on there.
There is just no way a program that big can be implemented without adjustments over time. It needed to be fixed not scrapped.
Quote: rxwineThere is just no way a program that big can be implemented without adjustments over time. It needed to be fixed not scrapped.
I agree 100%. It would take years for something like that to smooth out. I bet we end up with universal healthcare at some point anyway. Maybe even in our lifetimes.
Quote: rxwineQuote: AZDuffman[So you are saying I can go to the E/R and never pay? They will not attempt collections? WOW!
I didn't say for a runny nose. And yes you can't get money from people who don't have it. Or may never have it at their income level if the bill is high. Also include people who become severely disabled from disease or accident and can't work.
Seems to me then we are paying by the Obamacare mandate. At least now I can pick a policy I want. (HINT: I don't need maternity care, I don't want substance abuse coverage.)
Does the country benefit by having healthy children?
While we are at it, can I choose to pay for the military to defend Europe but skip the part of my taxes that goes towards defending Asia? Come to think of it, what has Wyoming ever done for me. Why should I care if their local roads aren't any good.
Perhaps our taxes should include a menu so we can assign our dollars to go where we want, like my monthly budget.
Heck. Why should I pay school taxes? Or for a bus system I'll hopefully never use?
Why can't people be more like our prez and simply borrow a few million from their father?
Quote: rxwineSo now we're back to paying for people who can't afford to pay in the emergency rooms and now will have people who didn't bother to insure and may not ever be able to pay without insurance if they bet badly on their future health.
Unless you're not paying taxes, who is paying for this extra cost?
Overtaxing people who can't afford sky-high premiums for zero-coverage plans doesn't solve anything.
In short we have a very expensive insurance card.
Maybe y'all should get better jobs if you think you pay too much or your deductibles are too high.
Quote: ams288I pay $40 a month for a plan with a $1500 deductible and $2500 yearly out of pocket maximum.
Maybe y'all should get better jobs if you think you pay too much or your deductibles are too high.
Yep, I hear McDonald's has a fine healthcare plan. You're lucky.
However, I'm self employed.
Quote: ams288I pay $40 a month for a plan with a $1500 deductible and $2500 yearly out of pocket maximum.
Maybe y'all should get better jobs if you think you pay too much or your deductibles are too high.
Your employer pays your health insurance, how nice for you.
But us self-employed shouldn't be forced to work for MegaCorp® or pay through the nose in order to satisfy an unnecessary and draconian health insurance law.
Quote: KeyserYep, I hear McDonald's has a fine healthcare plan. You're lucky.
However, I'm self employed.
Maybe you should work harder so you can better afford the insurance.
Isn't "work harder" always the Republican response to stuff like this?
Quote: JBYour employer pays your health insurance, how nice for you.
But us self-employed shouldn't be forced to work for MegaCorp® or pay through the nose in order to satisfy an unnecessary and draconian health insurance law.
Obama care allowed me to retire and live out my dream of opening a non profit.
Just a matter of adapting to circumstances and moving to a state that took advantage of what was available.
What some see as stumbling blocks, others see as stepping stones.
Quote: JBBut us self-employed shouldn't be forced to work for MegaCorp® or pay through the nose in order to satisfy an unnecessary and draconian health insurance law.
My wife and I pay $400 a month for
Medicare and Blue Cross supplemental.
What, people say, isn't Medicare FREE?
I laugh and laugh. Part of it is, but the
big part, the part you use all the time
for office visits and lab work and
physicals, that, you pay for out of
your pocket. And the co-pays too.
That's if you can find a decent
doc that will even accept Medicare.
In my area, the 2nd biggest in the
state, 85% of those are women
doctors. Finding a Medicare accepting
doc that's a man and has a patient
opening is like winning the lottery.
Too many hands are in the health care pie and it will take decades to do anything meaningful about it. Meanwhile those who are uninsured who enter the medical system will raise costs for everyone when they declare bankruptcy.
Think about it. If you are a company and you know that your doubtful receivables is about 15%, how you you going to make up for that loss in revenue. Simple. You charge those who can pay 15% more. If something like an individual mandate comes across and everyone is insured, your doubtful receivables drops to near zero (some people still will stiff the co-pay and the deductible) and you are now making 15% more profit and can use that money to compete.
Inotherwords, the cost of the deadbeats (the uninsured) are built in already to what you (the insured) pays.
The correct course of action in my opinion is to build the best damned all-inclusive health care in the world that combines technology, scale, and is single (state) payor. Then the state gets to negotiate the rates it pays hospitals, health-care providers, pharmacy providers and determines how insurance is paid and where the line is drawn (between public and private care). Heck, if Canada can do something decently, the US can do it 10 times better.
Quote: boymimbo
The correct course of action in my opinion is to build the best damned all-inclusive health care in the world that combines technology, scale, and is single (state) payor. Then the state gets to negotiate the rates it pays hospitals, health-care providers, pharmacy providers and determines how insurance is paid and where the line is drawn (between public and private care). Heck, if Canada can do something decently, the US can do it 10 times better.
Nothing will change unless you connect the person paying with the user.
See, we have a person here who really does not pay. He thinks $40 a month or whatever is what it "costs." Kind of like if you told me that I could go to the best steakhouse in Vegas and get whatever I want, but I have to pay the first $20. If you said that, expect me to have a nice appetizer, soup, surf and turf, then a desert. I will drink fine wine. Fancy coffee after desert, oh yeah! I will sign a tip for the fill amount, drop my $20 on the table, and leave. Hopefully I can get you to offer it again next week.
Lets take your example. You tell every steakhouse on the strip that you and only you are paying. $50 and that is that. I am not allowed to pay out of my own kick even if I want to, What happens? The soup goes from homemade to something from a can. The appetizers come from the frozen food section of Kroger and are limited in size. The steak is a cheap cut. It all takes longer to arrive because half the wait staff is let go. Desert is a scoop of Bryer's Vanilla. Some of the steakhouses just close up and become pot lounges.
I hate to keep saying it, but the Canadian system works only if you do not get sick. Otherwise I would not have met Canadians who told me they would be dead if not for coming to the USA for care.
Pick any 2 you like from the list.
GOOD
CHEAP
FAST
Quote: mcallister3200Well we are currently getting 0/3.
Getting GOOD and FAST from where I sit. I rarely have to wait for care and modern medicine is pretty good.
Quote: RSI still have no idea why someone would believe the government should be in control or responsible for providing health insurance / health care. Why people think we have to be babysat is beyond me. The government should only do what is necessary to do and only what the government is capable of doing (ie: police, prisons, firefighters, military, travel, border security, that sort of stuff).
Having all of those things you listed is also being "babysat" by the government. They could all be privatized. Why do you draw the line at healthcare? I would rather have my taxes go towards healthcare than our scam of a prison system and over-militarization of the police. Plus our defense budget could be trimmed, and we send way too much money to other countries.
Quote: TigerWuHaving all of those things you listed is also being "babysat" by the government. They could all be privatized. Why do you draw the line at healthcare? I would rather have my taxes go towards healthcare than our scam of a prison system and over-militarization of the police. Plus our defense budget could be trimmed, and we send way too much money to other countries.
How are you going to privatize police? Describe what happens when there's a dispute. Can I call my private police and say "Put him in prison, he stole my bike"?
I'm not saying the police, military, etc. is the best, just that I don't see how those types of things would work outside government intervention, but lots of stuff would work without the government intervening.
I don't draw the line at health care, but given this thread's about health care, well, ya know....
Quote: RSI'm not saying the police, military, etc. is the best, just that I don't see how those types of things would work outside government intervention, but lots of stuff would work without the government intervening.
My argument is just that healthcare CAN work with government intervention, and it CAN be better for the overall health of a society/country, IF it's executed properly. It won't be done overnight; it's going to take years, but I don't think it's right to just write it off entirely just because "OMG!! Nanny state communism!!"
We waste so much tax money on stupid crap, like sending hundreds of billions of dollars to foreign countries for this or that, when we could be spending it on our own citizens.
Quote: TigerWuHaving all of those things you listed is also being "babysat" by the government. They could all be privatized. Why do you draw the line at healthcare? I would rather have my taxes go towards healthcare than our scam of a prison system and over-militarization of the police. Plus our defense budget could be trimmed, and we send way too much money to other countries.
Some prisons are privatized. ATC might be privatized. Given that all of these things that you listed are to protect citizens, why is not health care in that list? We go to great lengths to take preventative measures that no one gets hurt while flying, while going to a sporting event, to prevent fires (not doing so well in California), to protect America against threats above, and so on.
Why not do the same with cancer? With the flu (which is a very transmittable and deadly disease)? With Measles, Mump, and Rubella (there are already mandates to enforce these vaccinations)? A healthy population with security from health issues via mandated insurance or even better yet, SOCIALIZED health care will make for a more productive population.
I said the "S" word because like it or not, you live in a socialized society. The wires to your home, the sewers draining your shower and toilet, your roads, your army, your border protection, your fire, police, schools, and other local services are all forms of socialization. While you got to decide where you lived, you had to make do with choices given by urban planners within the government.
And I like the idea that when someone on this forum gets ill, they can go see a doctor and not have to worry about the financial implications of using the system.
Now, back on topic. ObamaCare did suck, but it is bringing health coverage to 9 million families next year who won't have to declare bankruptcy when they find out they have a brain tumor.
Quote: boymimboA healthy population with security from health issues via mandated insurance or even better yet, SOCIALIZED health care will make for a more productive population.
I said the "S" word because like it or not, you live in a socialized society. The wires to your home, the sewers draining your shower and toilet, your roads, your army, your border protection, your fire, police, schools, and other local services are all forms of socialization. While you got to decide where you lived, you had to make do with choices given by urban planners within the government.
Yeah. So many people complain about "socialized health care" but they have absolutely no problem with other socialized aspects of our country and society. Why healthcare??? One of the most important things for anyone, ever. 100% of people need healthcare at some point in their lives, multiple times. Why is it not near the top of the list for things a government should be doing for its citizens?
Quote: TigerWuYeah. So many people complain about "socialized health care" but they have absolutely no problem with other socialized aspects of our country and society. Why healthcare??? One of the most important things for anyone, ever. 100% of people need healthcare at some point in their lives, multiple times. Why is it not near the top of the list for things a government should be doing for its citizens?
What a softball question. We can all agree that food is needed by all? Do you want the government to be in charge of providing food for all? Just like with health care (Medicaid) the government does take care of food for the destitute (Welfare). We all need shelter. Do you want the government to be responsible for housing for all? Just like the previous analogy, the government does provide funds for housing for the destitute (Welfare and other programs). I prefer the government be there as a safety net for those in need, not the first option for all for all things.
Quote: ams288I pay $40 a month for a plan with a $1500 deductible and $2500 yearly out of pocket maximum.
Maybe y'all should get better jobs if you think you pay too much or your deductibles are too high.
A comment like that tells me all I need to know about your character.
Quote: SOOPOOI prefer the government be there as a safety net for those in need, not the first option for all for all things.
Well, then, we just disagree.
Why do people go bankrupt in this country as a result of healthcare problems? Why does that happen if there isn't a serious problem with our healthcare and insurance industry? What's the solution to that if not government intervention?
Those aren't rhetorical questions or anything; I'm honestly asking.
Quote: AZDuffmanNothing will change unless you connect the person paying with the user.
See, we have a person here who really does not pay. He thinks $40 a month or whatever is what it "costs." Kind of like if you told me that I could go to the best steakhouse in Vegas and get whatever I want, but I have to pay the first $20. If you said that, expect me to have a nice appetizer, soup, surf and turf, then a desert. I will drink fine wine. Fancy coffee after desert, oh yeah! I will sign a tip for the fill amount, drop my $20 on the table, and leave. Hopefully I can get you to offer it again next week.
Lets take your example. You tell every steakhouse on the strip that you and only you are paying. $50 and that is that. I am not allowed to pay out of my own kick even if I want to, What happens? The soup goes from homemade to something from a can. The appetizers come from the frozen food section of Kroger and are limited in size. The steak is a cheap cut. It all takes longer to arrive because half the wait staff is let go. Desert is a scoop of Bryer's Vanilla. Some of the steakhouses just close up and become pot lounges.
I hate to keep saying it, but the Canadian system works only if you do not get sick. Otherwise I would not have met Canadians who told me they would be dead if not for coming to the USA for care.
Pick any 2 you like from the list.
GOOD
CHEAP
FAST
AZ you are so much wiser and well informed than most of our lefty friends on the board. I wish everyone else would take their safety pins off, crawl out of their safe places, and would listen to Professor Rush Limbaugh.
Quote: TigerWuWell, then, we just disagree.
Why do people go bankrupt in this country as a result of healthcare problems? Why does that happen if there isn't a serious problem with our healthcare and insurance industry? What's the solution to that if not government intervention?
Those aren't rhetorical questions or anything; I'm honestly asking.
Something like 40% of all Americans have zero savings. If their house burns down and they chose not to have insurance should I build them a new one? I can assure you they chose to have an Iphone. If someone opens a restaurant with their life savings and it fails, should I buy them a new restaurant?
If you believe in individual responsibility, like I do, you PREPARE for a health emergency. You get a job with health insurance (sorry AP's!). You buy disability insurance to have as a safety net for YOURSELF. You buy life insurance to protect your children. You don't count on "The Government" to save you!
Yes we have a different philosophy.
Quote: KeyserProfessor Rush Limbaugh.
I can't take more than 2 or 3 minutes of Rush. I don't mean from a political/ideological standpoint, it's just that the things he says literally make no sense. Any good points he may be making are just drowned in a sea of non-sequiturs, rambling, lies, and insults. A few years ago I had some Republican/Conservative friends that I would get in heated arguments with, and even they thought Rush was off his rocker.
