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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 2nd, 2016 at 3:42:18 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Where do you live, that's not true at all
here in W MI. My wife was looking for
a used car last year and we went to a
bunch of places and it was all white
male American salesman. She ended
up buying a new car from an American
white woman.



I read almost 10 years ago a story about a guy took an undercover sales job at a dealer. Some high-volume import lot. He said that white people even then were no longer putting up with the sales process at so many dealers. They would buy online, using a service or just talking to the fleet sales guy. Minority buyers would still (then anyways) deal with the hours long game of sitting there being sold.

I am hitting a one-price lot in FL next time I buy unless I find a way better deal here. Prices are very good and not worth the hassle of the way it used to be going lot to lot looking for what you want. Walk in with set financing or a cashiers check, tell the F&I guy to KO, and get out of the place.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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August 2nd, 2016 at 4:30:29 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I read almost 10 years ago a story about a guy took an undercover sales job at a dealer. Some high-volume import lot. He said that white people even then were no longer putting up with the sales process at so many dealers. They would buy online, using a service or just talking to the fleet sales guy. Minority buyers would still (then anyways) deal with the hours long game of sitting there being sold.

I am hitting a one-price lot in FL next time I buy unless I find a way better deal here. Prices are very good and not worth the hassle of the way it used to be going lot to lot looking for what you want. Walk in with set financing or a cashiers check, tell the F&I guy to KO, and get out of the place.



I bought a new Saturn ion in 2003. That is how the sales process was for that car as well. There was no negotiating with Saturn at the time. It was the sticker or nothing.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 2nd, 2016 at 5:52:13 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I bought a new Saturn ion in 2003. That is how the sales process was for that car as well. There was no negotiating with Saturn at the time. It was the sticker or nothing.



Lots of people loved the Saturn experience. Though those retreats to the factory were almost disturbing for the loyalty they had. Of course GM screwed it all up.

There are a few services that will get you a better deal. But car buying is so unlike what it was 15 years ago to be amazing.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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August 3rd, 2016 at 2:37:16 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman



There are a few services that will get you a better deal. But car buying is so unlike what it was 15 years ago to be amazing.



I haven't bought a car since 2002. It was
a Saturn and I'm still driving it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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August 3rd, 2016 at 7:01:58 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I haven't bought a car since 2002. It was
a Saturn and I'm still driving it.



My 2003 Saturn is going to hit 200k this year. I have replaced a wheel bearing 4 times and a tie rod but other than that it is all original.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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August 4th, 2016 at 5:19:01 AM permalink
It was something to hear that the Spring Hill plant was drawing thousands of visitors a day - they seemed to have really sold the concept to the public.

Then they went belly up with Saturn.

I can't square these two facts
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Joeman
Joeman 
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
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August 4th, 2016 at 6:05:24 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

It was something to hear that the Spring Hill plant was drawing thousands of visitors a day - they seemed to have really sold the concept to the public.

Then they went belly up with Saturn.

I can't square these two facts

Exactly my thoughts. The Saturn owners I knew personally loved not only their cars, but also the dealerships. Yeah, I can see loving your car, but the salesman who sold it to you & the dealer's service department? They must have been doing something right. How did it fail?
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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August 4th, 2016 at 1:58:51 PM permalink
Saturn destruction: more at link

Quote:

–Because of an enthusiastic market response to their “different kind of car,” Saturn retailers were chronically short of vehicles for the first five years of production.

–Saturn was the third best-selling car model in the U.S. in 1994. When the production lines switched over to the 1995 models, there were only 400 ’94 Saturns left on lots across the country.

–J.D. Powers consistently rated Saturn as among the top three cars in owner and customer sales satisfaction. Even as late as 2000 it ranked second in owner satisfaction, behind Lexus.

–Most of the 9,000 Saturn employees (at the mid-1990s peak) came from other GM plants, through an agreement between GM and the UAW. This different kind of company was created by people who all came from the old, traditional kind of company. They changed the way they thought about the workplace, committed themselves to being world-class and altered many work habits to keep their promises to their customers. And they did so without any external incentives.

–Thanks to a unique partnership between Saturn and its retailers, in 1993 the retailers rebated back to Saturn 1% of the cars’ sales price, to get GM’s permission to start a third production shift. That brought $13 million to Saturn’s bottom line, moving its finances into the black a year ahead of plan.

–Owner enthusiasm went off the charts, as was demonstrated when nearly 100,000 owners attended two “homecoming” celebrations in 1994 and 1999.

But that was then and this is now. What happened to that 1990s success story? Despite what you may read elsewhere, there were just two underlying forces behind Saturn’s demise: GM’s insistence on managing all its divisions centrally with a tight fist, and the demand by leadership at both GM and the UAW that Saturn get in line with traditional ways of doing things.

As I learned from many GM executives at Saturn and elsewhere, GM manages its businesses monolithically. When it launched Saturn, it told the other divisions they couldn’t have any money to upgrade or introduce new models, because the Saturn launch was gobbling up all the funds. Hence everyone in the GM family was hostile toward and jealous of the new arrival. The same dynamic hit Saturn again a few years later when the market shifted and it desperately needed a midsize car and an SUV. Sorry, GM leadership said. It was the other divisions’ time to get the money. Everyone had to take a turn–and every division was penalized in the process.



http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/08/saturn-gm-innovation-leadership-managing-failure.html
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 4th, 2016 at 4:17:07 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

It was something to hear that the Spring Hill plant was drawing thousands of visitors a day - they seemed to have really sold the concept to the public.

Then they went belly up with Saturn.

I can't square these two facts



Quote: Joeman

Exactly my thoughts. The Saturn owners I knew personally loved not only their cars, but also the dealerships. Yeah, I can see loving your car, but the salesman who sold it to you & the dealer's service department? They must have been doing something right. How did it fail?



There were many problems beneath the surface. What people really liked was the sales experience. When you got down to it the cars were nuttin special, same pattern as the rest of GM. Namely unrefined but proven components that "ran bad longer than other cars ran." While they did not dent the body panels had huge and ugly gaps. Engines were buzzy and the whole thing was just competent. "Car guys" didn't care much for them at all. But that dealer experience, that was classic GM Marketing with all of its might.

Most of the early Saturns shared little with the rest of GM. Even the back-office payroll and union contract was special. Fixed costs could not be shared. Saturn was a small company stranded inside a large one, getting the worst end of both from a finance perspective. The rest of GM hated them. When it did come time that Saturn was allowed to share an Opel platform they used the plastic-body thing and killed any cost savings.

In the mid-1980s Saturn was new and funky. By the mid 1990s it was aging and devoid of product. Again a shame because their segment LOVED that dealer experience. Reality is instead of starting Saturn, GM should have re-tooled Oldsmobile to make the dealer experience. The car really did not matter when you look back.

If you were to make a college course you could say how Saturn was started when GM had enough cash to do anything it wanted. But by the time it matured that was no longer the case and it withered on the vine.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SAMIAM
SAMIAM
Joined: Aug 4, 2016
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  • Posts: 43
August 4th, 2016 at 7:09:10 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Joeman

Exactly my thoughts. The Saturn owners I knew personally loved not only their cars, but also the dealerships. Yeah, I can see loving your car, but the salesman who sold it to you & the dealer's service department? They must have been doing something right. How did it fail?



There were many problems beneath the surface. What people really liked was the sales experience. When you got down to it the cars were nuttin special, same pattern as the rest of GM. Namely unrefined but proven components that "ran bad longer than other cars ran." While they did not dent the body panels had huge and ugly gaps. Engines were buzzy and the whole thing was just competent. "Car guys" didn't care much for them at all. But that dealer experience, that was classic GM Marketing with all of its might.

Most of the early Saturns shared little with the rest of GM. Even the back-office payroll and union contract was special. Fixed costs could not be shared. Saturn was a small company stranded inside a large one, getting the worst end of both from a finance perspective. The rest of GM hated them. When it did come time that Saturn was allowed to share an Opel platform they used the plastic-body thing and killed any cost savings.

In the mid-1980s Saturn was new and funky. By the mid 1990s it was aging and devoid of product. Again a shame because their segment LOVED that dealer experience. Reality is instead of starting Saturn, GM should have re-tooled Oldsmobile to make the dealer experience. The car really did not matter when you look back.

If you were to make a college course you could say how Saturn was started when GM had enough cash to do anything it wanted. But by the time it matured that was no longer the case and it withered on the vine.


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