Where's Paigowdan?
it be he's working on his latest gaming invention, to
increase his stake in the vampire business of sucking
the customer dry and kicking his emaciated body to
the curb? All the while laughing hysterically and trying
to avoid the sunlight?
It could be that he merely got tired of being on the receiving end of comments like that.Quote: EvenBob... the vampire business of sucking
the customer dry and kicking his emaciated body to
the curb? All the while laughing hysterically and trying
to avoid the sunlight?
Quote: DJTeddyBearIt could be that he merely got tired of being on the receiving end of comments like that.
Dan? He never gets tired of defending the casino business,
its what he does. He loves it.
I feel:
1. A lot of the stuff can be handled very well by so many here. I focus more on the threads I can contribute on (game design, player-casino conflict, etc.), and chime in less on the stuff that'll get a lot of good responses by others.
2. I HAVE been very busy this month, and have been focusing less here: I am working on new games (both as a consultant writing gaming application's "game sheets" for new games), and showing some of my newer games to distributors. This takes a ton of prep work, so yes, I've been distracted.
3. I have been put off by a lot of Gaming Industry bashing going on here, - which is kind of ridiculous for us to do at a gaming forum that is run by a gaming industry expert, and is frequently used and referenced by the Gaming Industry, distributors and casino operators alike. I mean, I just don't see this kind of attacks on the industry at the Casino forums at LinkedIn, and it is off-putting and useless, counter-productive, IMHO. I am tiring somewhat of this.
Quote: Paigowdan
3. I have been put off by a lot of Gaming Industry bashing going on here, - which is kind of ridiculous .
Odd, we feel the same way about the gaming industry
bashing AP's, making hunted criminals (in the casinos
eyes) of people who have broken no laws or rules at all.
Ridiculous indeed. Why cant we all just get along? The
casino will admit AP's are fine and are breaking no rules
and AP's will play openly in a friendly atmosphere.
See how easy that was?
Quote: thecesspitI love the way EvenBob keeps tabs on us all.
Not everyone. Go ahead and disappear for a month
and see if anybody notices.
As long as you're not cheating on us by posting in other boards... ;)
Quote: NareedDan
As long as you're not cheating on us by posting in other boards... ;)
Occasionally on LinkedIn; no Bob there... :) :)
Quote: EvenBobNot everyone. Go ahead and disappear for a month
and see if anybody notices.
Awww, you hurt me Bob, I thought you cared. Damn, I better go sharpen the kitchen knives again.
Quote: EvenBobNot everyone. Go ahead and disappear for a month
and see if anybody notices.
Bob, I'd say you certainly noticed a short absence on my part with this thread: "Where's PaiGowDan?"
Quote: PaigowdanThis is ridiculous: Using a CSM, putting a cut-card in at 70% penetration instead of 85%, or telling a player to play Roulette instead of BJ is not backrooming, or hunting criminals.
But taking secret pictures and sending them to other casinos
is hunting 'criminals'. Thats just what police agencies do.
Theres a documentary coming out about this, I wish I could
remember the guy's name who's doing it. His pic chased him all
over the midwest to the point they were waiting at the door
for him in some places. He even got hassled by local police
because they were warned by the casino that casino 'cheats'
were in the area. The cops treated them like they just robbed a bank.
Your'e right, Dan, its ridiculous.
Quote: PaigowdanBob, I'd say you certainly noticed a short absence on my part with this thread.
Thats because I like you, Dan. Cesspit, he's from Canada,
need I say more..
Quote: PaigowdanOccasionally on LinkedIn; no Bob there... :) :)
Good point. I could even forgive you for that ;)
Quote: EvenBobThats because I like you, Dan. Cesspit, he's from Canada,
need I say more..
It's impressive how jealous someone can get about where I live.
Quote: thecesspitIt's impressive how jealous someone can get about where I live.
My brother in law lives in Canada. He talks funny. He's
lived there so long he thinks he's Canadian. Unforgivable.
Quote: EvenBobBut taking secret pictures and sending them to other casinos
is hunting 'criminals'. Thats just what police agencies do.
Theres a documentary coming out about this, I wish I could
remember the guy's name who's doing it. His pic chased him all
over the midwest to the point they were waiting at the door
for him in some places. He even got hassled by local police
because they were warned by the casino that casino 'cheats'
were in the area. The cops treated them like they just robbed a bank.
Your'e right, Dan, its ridiculous.
No it's not: 7-11 and Speedy mart, Albertson's, movie houses, etc., - every business group essentially has loss prevention, monitoring, and tracking programs. Casino operators are the same as any other business in this regard.
Any hysteria over this is absurd; 99% of all players walk into the casino without fear of being backed off or even caring if surveilled. So what. And the ones who do care....might have reason...
Its like being American but without a gun...
Quote: PaigowdanNo it's not: 7-11 and Speedy mart, Albertson's, movie houses, etc., - every business group essentially has loss prevention, monitoring, and tracking programs. .
For REAL CRIMINALS! Not people who aren't breaking any
rules or laws like AP's are doing. Huge difference, Dan. And
many local casinos have the police on their side because they've lied
and said that AP's are breaking the law. Unreal..
Quote: WongBoI always loved what the kids in the hall said about being a Canadian...
Its like being American but without a gun...
Helpless?
Go drum up support for a class action suit, or even an op-ed ditty about the gaming industry as the bad guys.
Casinos seldom take it "too far," - and when they do, they get nailed to the boards, - and rightfully so. To some degree I think of the soccer player who, when chipping a fingernail in play, wails out in pain pointing to the sky, and demanding that someone be red-carded.
But his opinions and accusations here in this thread are random, baseless claims, - just a whole of boogey-man chatter and flaming.
Quote: PaigowdanBob's going overboard that casinos are ruthless oppressors.
.
Overboard? What have I said that isn't true? Even in Vegas
the cops treat counters like criminals. Is that an accident?
Not for nothing, but finding out that Dan hasn't posted much lately is realatively quick and easy.Quote: thecesspitI love the way EvenBob keeps tabs on us all.
No "keeping tabs" needed - other than merely noticing that he hasn't been around.
Quote: DJTeddyBearNot for nothing, but fining out that Dan hasn't posted much lately is realatively quick and easy. No "keeping tabs" needed - other than merely noticing that he hasn't been around.
I've been around, reading, and giving some occasional posts. I'm surprised that my relative absence was missed by Bob enough for him to devote a thread to it.
Quote: Paigowdan
Casinos seldom take it "too far," - and when they do, they get nailed to the boards,
You mean the ones we hear about get nailed. The vast majority
never make the news because the AP was glad to escape without
spending 4 days in jail.
Quote: thecesspitI love the way EvenBob keeps tabs on us all.
Well he posts incessantly and is here all day so I assume we are his only interaction.
Or this is the last website that hasn't blocked his IP.
Quote: PaigowdanBob's going overboard that casinos are ruthless oppressors.
Go drum up support for a class action suit, or even an op-ed ditty about the gaming industry as the bad guys.
Casinos seldom take it "too far," - and when they do, they get nailed to the boards, - and rightfully so. To some degree I think of the soccer player who, when chipping a fingernail in play, wails out in pain pointing to the sky, and demanding that someone be red-carded.
But his opinions and accusations here in this thread are random, baseless claims, - just a whole of boogey-man chatter and flaming.
When I said they "often" take it too far, that is a very relative term. I would agree with you that in most cases they are respectful and follow procedures, but we do hear of enough cases where they do something in the wrong that it is worth discussing. If the casinos always just asked people who they perceived to be "skilled players" not to play blackjack on their property and moved on it would be in the best interest of both parties. The AP will no longer be making money from that casino and the casino still has the business of the 99% of players who are not AP's and are giving the casino action with a house advantage. Unfortunetly, some casino personel, for whatever reason, deviate from what is in the best interest of both parties and that is when we hear about it.
Quote: Wavy70Well he posts incessantly and is here all day .
No, I rarely and I mean rarely post before 4pm or later.
Today I did, but thats uncommon. I'm not here during
the day, you must be thinking of Nareed.
Quote: WongBoI always loved what the kids in the hall said about being a Canadian...
Its like being American but without a gun...
How do the halfwits in Canada express their political allegiance? Are poorly spelled signs and teabags enough by themselves.
Quote: EvenBobNo, I rarely and I mean rarely post before 4pm or later.
Today I did, but thats uncommon. I'm not here during
the day, you must be thinking of Nareed.
Yeah only 3k posts or so a year. Hardly even here.
Edit. Nareeds posts are fun to read and devoid of hate. Could read her posts all day.
Quote: Paigowdan
Casinos seldom take it "too far," -
The thing is, Vegas has only a tiny part of the
casinos in the US. They have 122, while in the
whole country there are over 1500. You have
no idea what goes on in IA or MS or NY. You
have no idea what AP's have to put up with
outside of Vegas.
Please point me to one of Bob's posts that are hateful. Critical, YES Honest to a fault YES But never HATEFUL !!
Quote: buzzpaffEdit. Nareeds posts are fun to read and devoid of hate. Could read her posts all day.
Please point me to one of Bob's posts that are hateful. Critical, YES Honest to a fault YES But never HATEFUL !!
To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Quote: conoWe are going to have to start being a lot nicer to Canadians. Turns out that they have a lot of oil. Sweet, sweet oil.
Got a few Irving stations here.
Quote: Wavy70To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Like I said before. honest to a fault.
Quote: Wavy70To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Yes, Jap is short for Japanese. When I lived in Hawaii
everybody called them Japs, nobody was insulted.
Its like calling a Polish person a Pole, so what.
Quote: buzzpaffQuote: Wavy70To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Like I said before. honest to a fault.
Honest to his hate I agree. But you think he would have a tiny shred of respect for The Wiz especially now that he is employed by a large multinational corporation with a large population of Asian clients to tone down a bit. I have worked in HR long enough to see web content bring a good career to an end.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: Wavy70To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Yes, Jap is short for Japanese. When I lived in Hawaii
everybody called them Japs, nobody was insulted.
Its like calling a Polish person a Pole, so what.
I understand you can't comprehend it is racist.
Quote: Wavy70Quote: EvenBobQuote: Wavy70To be fair I guess some of you don't consider his racism a form of hate. As always YMMV.
What Bugs You Evenbob racist rant (JAP problems)
Yes, Jap is short for Japanese. When I lived in Hawaii
everybody called them Japs, nobody was insulted.
Its like calling a Polish person a Pole, so what.
I understand you can't comprehend it is racist.
I'm not sure that the name part is racist. The name part is pointless and silly, but the part that's unambiguously racist is the part where Bob makes a special point to emphasize that it's a "Japanese" guy who cut in line. If the cutting asshole was white, would Bob have said "a guy who appeared to be Norwegian cut in front of me!"? No? Racist statement!
Out of curiosity, how can you tell what country an asian guy in a suit is from? He didn't even speak... Is there a class or something that I can take?
Quote: rdw4potusOut of curiosity, how can you tell what country an asian guy in a suit is from? He didn't even speak... Is there a class or something that I can take?
rdw, where do you live? I don't think it's in an area with a high Asian population because if you spend enough time around them (I'm half Japanese) it's not too difficult to tell. There's a little cross-over between Koreans and Japanese, but a "skilled" person can usually tell by bone structure in the face. Of course you can always be wrong, but living in Seattle, having Japanese relatives, and having the "islander"-types be my college crowd gave me about a 90% success rate in distinguishing between Asian groups.
Quote: Wavy70Edit. Nareeds posts are fun to read and devoid of hate. Could read her posts all day.
Thanks!
I do most of my posting from work. It is time supposed to be spent productively, right? ;)
Quote: ahiromurdw, where do you live? I don't think it's in an area with a high Asian population because if you spend enough time around them (I'm half Japanese) it's not too difficult to tell. There's a little cross-over between Koreans and Japanese, but a "skilled" person can usually tell by bone structure in the face. Of course you can always be wrong, but living in Seattle, having Japanese relatives, and having the "islander"-types be my college crowd gave me about a 90% success rate in distinguishing between Asian groups.
I live in Minneapolis. I do well enough telling the Laotian/Cambodian/Hmong/Vietnamese population from the Chinese/Japanese/Korean population. I guess that's like telling people from Northern Europe from people from Southern Europe.
So, OK, let's say that Bob is right about the guy in the suit being Japanese. That just leaves the part about how/why his race is correlated to his rudeness in Bob's mind...
Quote: ahiromurdw, where do you live? I don't think it's in an area with a high Asian population because if you spend enough time around them (I'm half Japanese) it's not too difficult to tell. There's a little cross-over between Koreans and Japanese, but a "skilled" person can usually tell by bone structure in the face. Of course you can always be wrong, but living in Seattle, having Japanese relatives, and having the "islander"-types be my college crowd gave me about a 90% success rate in distinguishing between Asian groups.
Some years ago, I worked in a group that included three Chinese Americans -- back then, anyone you met in this country from "China" was from the island, not the mainland. One day I commented to one of them that I had such a limited background associating with the Asian peoples that I could not recognize Chinese from Japanese from Korean from Vietnamese from Thai etc. Her reply: "Neither can I." An she had spent at least half her life in Asia.
The reason that I agree with PaiGowDan's position is because a business, fundamentally, has the right to refuse services to anyone for any non-discriminatory reason. In the event that card counters have been federally adjudicated to be a protected class of citizens, I'm afraid I was not made aware of such.
I have mentioned that I am a hotel manager, so for example, there are certain guests to whom I will rent a room on some nights, but will refuse to rent a room to the same guest on others, usually by claiming that I have no rooms available. The reason for this is because these guests will often, "Trash," a room without actually breaking anything. They have not done anything illegal in the room, (or, if they have, it's not the type of thing that would cause me to refuse to rent to someone...i.e. marijuana use) but if I am going to be sold out the following day, or if there is any chance of a sell-out, I cannot devote a full hour of the time of one of my housekeepers to cleaning that room.
Alternatively, if we are only half full that day or the following day, I will rent to these people in a heartbeat.
I may also refuse to rent to someone who was overly demanding or who had unrealistic expectations on a previous stay. I will often refuse to rent to an individual who I have had to refund in full, or in part, unless they have stayed previously without complaint and I consider the complaint legitimate. I will certainly not rent to an individual who I have had to refund, in full or in part, twice because then I label them as, "Refund-Chasers," and I will make them aware that my opinion is that this hotel cannot live up to their expectations, and therefore, I suggest that they find alternative accomodations when they are in the area.
The bottom line is that you can refuse services to a current or previous customer who has not done anything illegal on your premises, including card-counting. It's simply up to the business to decide whether or not they feel the customer's business is profitable and not damaging to the extent that the customer is worth retaining. Most casinos do not want to retain card counters, the more the card-counters bet, the less the casinos want to retain them...unless they don't know BS but know how to count...but I imagine that would be very unusual.
