Was the Bin Laden capture faked? (FSZ)
Quote: AZDuffmanNot commenting on it being fake as logic tells me that no POTUS would take a chance like this as if Bin Ladden showed up alive later he would look so foolish the very security of the country could be in danger.
There are other possibilities:
1. There never was an Osama bin Laden to begin with (or he has been dead for a while, perhaps, since before 2001, and the President knows it).
2. They have actually captured him a while ago, and have been keeping in secretly and torturing all this time, and now he died, but they could not show us a picture of the body, because it is dismembered and mutilated beyond recognition.
Whatever that is, I found the theory of "we just did not know where to bury him, so we dumped him into the sea, and never thought of even taking a picture of the body", because we did not want to violate Islamic laws, about as far fetched as the two hypotheses above.
Quote: weaselman... Whatever that is, I found the theory of "we just did not know where to bury him, so we dumped him into the sea, and never thought of even taking a picture of the body", because we did not want to violate Islamic laws, about as far fetched as the two hypotheses above.
I guess I haven't heard any reports that say (1) "we just did not know where to bury him" or (2) "never thought of even taking a picture of the body". The reports I heard specifically did say that pictures were taken and at least implied that they did not want to present a physical burial place as a potential shrine.
Quote: DocI guess I haven't heard any reports that say (1) "we just did not know where to bury him" or (2) "never thought of even taking a picture of the body". The reports I heard specifically did say that pictures were taken and at least implied that they did not want to present a physical burial place as a potential shrine.
The world as we now know it is tightly controlled by the media in that everything we know is fed to us from them. Whatever the truth is, when Obama speaks into the cameras he could have stayed the course and at least blamed George W. Bush for setting the table for him on this one.
No one in the civilized world wants a shrine for the creep, but we would have liked to at least see a true picture of him D.O.A. How hard would it be to cremate him and spread his ashes in dumps across America? Let the Muslim extremist freaks try and honor him at these places. It just doesn't add up and we're one again being asked to trust our Government. What have they done for us lately?
Quote: VirgiThe world as we now know it is tightly controlled by the media in that everything we know is fed to us from them. Whatever the truth is, when Obama speaks into the cameras he could have stayed the course and at least blamed George W. Bush for setting the table for him on this one.
No one in the civilized world wants a shrine for the creep, but we would have liked to at least see a true picture of him D.O.A. How hard would it be to cremate him and spread his ashes in dumps across America? Let the Muslim extremist freaks try and honor him at these places. It just doesn't add up and we're one again being asked to trust our Government. What have they done for us lately?
It's pretty obvious that if a picture had been produced, the AM radio folks would just say it was fake. We all know how very easy it is to fake pics like that, so producing a picture is amazingly worthless.
One more corpse on the pages on the press would not add much to that torrent of macabre images out there. Not sure this is what we should encourage the kids to see. But if it helps Virgi sleep a happy American, lets stick out there.
I suspect one day you'll see the full gory image.
Quote: rdw4potusIt's pretty obvious that if a picture had been produced, the AM radio folks would just say it was fake.
Yes, it is possible. Nevertheless pictures and videos are produced most of the time, as proof, as illustration, as news of their own.
Why not this one time - that is the interesting question.
Quote:We all know how very easy it is to fake pics like that, so producing a picture is amazingly worthless.
I am not talking about a picture as a proof. I am just asking why there was no picture this time.
As for proof, there are plenty of other ways. Cut off his beard, and bring it over to the states, and then give individual hairs out for independent DNA analysis. Bring the whole body back to the US, and have it examined by experts. Show it to somebody outside US.
But even without any of it, a picture, or better yet, a series of pictures, while not proof by itself, would give a lot of additional credibility to this odd story, not because it is hard to fake, but because it would make it less odd.
Quote: thecesspit
One more corpse on the pages on the press would not add much to that torrent of macabre images out there.
Exactly. If we have never seen a picture of a corpse in a newspaper or on a TV screen before, I could see the argument that we won't this time either, simply because there is nothing to see there. But that is not the case. There are pictures of everything everywhere. There is a tutorial on waterboarding on youtube.
But this one particular picture is not suited for the public all of a sudden. It just makes me wonder why.
Quote: avargovI am conspiritist either, nor am I a Rob Singer fan, but we did debate here for weeks about his claims. I would think that most of the minds on this forum would want a little proof.
Hell, just last week half of the US thought Obama was from someplace other, now we will all believe what he says. Perhaps we all want the news so bad we will take it at face value.
here we go
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Quote: weaselmanYes, it is possible. Nevertheless pictures and videos are produced most of the time, as proof, as illustration, as news of their own.
Why not this one time - that is the interesting question.
Why offend/piss-off the Islamic world if people won't believe the pictures anyway? Not releasing the pictures is by-far the better position for us to be in.
Quote: thecesspitI suspect one day you'll see the full gory image.
We saw Saddam swinging from a rope. We saw his sons being dragged through the streets. We'll see Ghadafi once he gets his head choppped off. Why not this putz?
Quote: rdw4potusWhy offend/piss-off the Islamic world if people won't believe the pictures anyway? Not releasing the pictures is by-far the better position for us to be in.
There's the problem: coddling a religion instead of answering to the American people. If we never did another thing to pacify these odd people then no one would give a shit. But for some reason there's this feeling that we need to placate the animal arm of that strange & dangerous religion, maybe out of fear but certainly out of a lack of intelligence.
Quote: rdw4potusWhy offend/piss-off the Islamic world if people won't believe the pictures anyway? Not releasing the pictures is by-far the better position for us to be in.
We are fighting a war in two Islamic countries simultaneously, but are cautious to offend them by releasing one photograph? Please ...
Quote: weaselmanWe are fighting a war in two Islamic countries simultaneously, but are cautious to offend them by releasing one photograph? Please ...
I think it's now 4 islamic countries: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya. And yes, drawing a distinction between the enemy combatants in those wars and the civilians in those countries is an absolute key to our success in those wars. The civilians' perception of our leadership and our forces in their land matters a great deal to the success and security of our forces in-country.
Quote: rdw4potusAnd yes, drawing a distinction between the enemy combatants in those wars and the civilians in those countries is an absolute key to our success in those wars.
Who is the civilian? Osama?
Quote: weaselmanWho is the civilian? Osama?
Are you kidding me? It's not like we're fighting the entire country of Afghanistan...
Quote: rdw4potusAre you kidding me? It's not like we're fighting the entire country of Afghanistan...
I guess not ...
But if you were an afgan civilian would you be offended more by a foreign country invading your land or by a picture of a dead international terrorist appearing in some foreign paper?
Quote: weaselmanI guess not ...
But if you were an afgan civilian would you be offended more by a foreign country invading your land or by a picture of a dead international terrorist appearing in some foreign paper?
Afghan civilians don't like the Taliban or Al Qaeda, but they also don't particularly like our troops. They'll tolerate the presence of our troops as long as they think we respect them and we're looking out for their interests by fighting their would-be oppressors. The safety of our troops on the ground relies heavily on the assistance (or at least not resistance) of the Afghan civilians. The reaction of the American public to the pictures matters a great deal. If the reaction to the picture(s) could uniformly be "dead international terrorist!" and not "dead Muslim dirtbag!," I suspect that things would be different. Sadly, based on what some people here are saying, that just isn't the case. It isn't worth risking the safety of our fighting forces overseas just so that we can view some ghastly images of OBL's corpse.
Quote: rdw4potusThe reaction of the American public to the pictures matters a great deal. If the reaction to the picture(s) could uniformly be "dead international terrorist!" and not "dead Muslim dirtbag!," I suspect that things would be different. Sadly, based on what some people here are saying, that just isn't the case.
It isn't the case regardless. You are right, that is the (not completely uncalled for) reaction of (some of) the American public, and publishing or not publishing the picture of a corpse isn't going to change it one way or the other. That's exactly why I can't see this as an argument for suppressing the picture.
Ted Rall is an atheist and writes some cartoons dealing with these views.[6]
Like this is some sort of surprise. He's also 47 without family, he lives in Massachusetts, and I'll bet to those who know him he's just a little bit weird....
Quote: VirgiHere's a syndicated columnist who says we made a big mistake in killing OBL. His article today is "OSAMA BIN LADEN'S ULTIMATE VICTORY"
Ted Rall is an atheist and writes some cartoons dealing with these views.[6]
Like this is some sort of surprise. He's also 47 without family, he lives in Massachusetts, and I'll bet to those who know him he's just a little bit weird....
As weird as a man who creates sock puppets continually on a website? We've had one of those around here. What do you think of people like that?
Anyways, I thought y'all wanted him kept alive so you could watch him die? Make yer mind up...
Quote: thecesspitQuote: VirgiHere's a syndicated columnist who says we made a big mistake in killing OBL. His article today is "OSAMA BIN LADEN'S ULTIMATE VICTORY"
Ted Rall is an atheist and writes some cartoons dealing with these views.[6]
Like this is some sort of surprise. He's also 47 without family, he lives in Massachusetts, and I'll bet to those who know him he's just a little bit weird....
As weird as a man who creates sock puppets continually on a website? We've had one of those around here. What do you think of people like that?
Anyways, I thought y'all wanted him kept alive so you could watch him die? Make yer mind up...
I don't know what a "sock puppet" is.
You mean we wanted OBL kept alive so we could watch him die? Or Ted Rall?
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You. Or at least video of him burning on a pile of Koran's.
No idea what Ted Rall wants, except for the resignation of Obama from a quick peek around. I could cut and paste it from wikipedia as well if you wanted.
