Sin Tax

This is something that has annoyed me for years; paying for the government’s damn wars.

I feel like I am an accomplice in a crime now because of the tax I've paid.

You'll find some activists deny the charge that they as taxpayers facilitate for the process of war.
They say; “Once the money leaves our hands so does the responsibility!”

If that were true then the person who hires a hit man is innocent.
It doesn’t make sense.

I have spent months thinking about this and I am 99.9% certain that the taxpayer acts as an accomplice to things like war. The taxpayer is like a getaway driver at a bank robbery, or a lookout at a crime.

I have seen some shocking news reports from these besieged countries like Afghanistan. One that impacted me the most was a mother crying out for God to help her because her children were killed in a bomb blast.

I’ve always said to myself that I would rather go to jail or even die than join in on these kinds of things.
Now, that the time has come to keep my word. I am having second thoughts. It would basically mean giving up everything.

I see your point.
You need to move to a country that has no army, so you don't have to contribute to a defense, is that it?
I mean who would want to pay for men fighting the men who mistakenly took down, or tried to, New York, Washington, Detroit and other no good Americans?
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the country!

Quote: petro

This is something that has annoyed me for years; paying for the government’s damn wars.

I feel like I am an accomplice in a crime now because of the tax I've paid.

You'll find some activists deny the charge that they as taxpayers facilitate for the process of war.
They say; “Once the money leaves our hands so does the responsibility!”

If that were true then the person who hires a hit man is innocent.
It doesn’t make sense.

I have spent months thinking about this and I am 99.9% certain that the taxpayer acts as an accomplice to things like war. The taxpayer is like a getaway driver at a bank robbery, or a lookout at a crime.

I have seen some shocking news reports from these besieged countries like Afghanistan. One that impacted me the most was a mother crying out for God to help her because her children were killed in a bomb blast.


I’ve always said to myself that I would rather go to jail or even die than join in on these kinds of things.
Now, that the time has come to keep my word. I am having second thoughts. It would basically mean giving up everything.

I thought a Sin Tax was a tax on tobacco and alcohol. I'm so happy that you're free to express you're thoughts and opinions here and anywhere else you choose. How do you suppose that's possible?

I love our troops!

DeMango, yes I have considered this before. There are not many countries though who don't have armies. But it seems like a rational solution.

Quote: petro

This is something that has annoyed me for years; paying for the government’s damn wars.

I feel like I am an accomplice in a crime now because of the tax I've paid.

You'll find some activists deny the charge that they as taxpayers facilitate for the process of war.
They say; “Once the money leaves our hands so does the responsibility!”

If that were true then the person who hires a hit man is innocent.
It doesn’t make sense.

I have spent months thinking about this and I am 99.9% certain that the taxpayer acts as an accomplice to things like war. The taxpayer is like a getaway driver at a bank robbery, or a lookout at a crime.

I have seen some shocking news reports from these besieged countries like Afghanistan. One that impacted me the most was a mother crying out for God to help her because her children were killed in a bomb blast.

I’ve always said to myself that I would rather go to jail or even die than join in on these kinds of things.
Now, that the time has come to keep my word. I am having second thoughts. It would basically mean giving up everything.

I believe that you don't have a clue how good we have it in this country. Get some money together and do some traveling around the world. The Taliban are looking for volunteers. I will be happy to drive you to the airport.

Quote: DeMango

I see your point.
You need to move to a country that has no army, so you don't have to contribute to a defense, is that it?
I mean who would want to pay for men fighting the men who mistakenly took down, or tried to, New York, Washington, Detroit and other no good Americans?
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the country!

The West in general would have been better off financially if they hadn't gone to a costly war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the decision to go into Afghanistan was the right thing to do on several levels. I don't think the fight in Iraq was.

But I can think the leaders decision was lousy and still support those having to do the hard work and risk their lives.

Quote: thecesspit

The West in general would have been better off financially if they hadn't gone to a costly war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the decision to go into Afghanistan was the right thing to do on several levels. I don't think the fight in Iraq was.

But I can think the leaders decision was lousy and still support those having to do the hard work and risk their lives.

Afghanistan = good decision and effort.

Iraq = bad decision, but one that turned out good only because Saddam was eliminated. Doing that ended the immoral treatment of the Iraqi people that would have gone on for who knows how long had we not intervened, and that outweighs any of the criticisms and the negatives.

Since a great majority of our fighting troops are from the lowest levels of our society, these wars have given them at least a chance to dig out of their ruts with some self-respect.

The misery and bloodshed in Afghanistan is not being caused by the US. The US is trying to STOP it. Twenty-plus years of Taliban rule is what is responsible for the current awful state of that country. They storm grammar schools and machine-gun young girls who are trying to learn how to read. They drag men form their homes in the middle of the night and execute them in the street for not having long enough beards.

If you truly decry the human misery in Afghanistan, then you should support the US efforts to destroy the Taliban and Al-Qaida.

Quote: JerryLogan

Since a great majority of our fighting troops are from the lowest levels of our society, these wars have given them at least a chance to dig out of their ruts with some self-respect.

This is possibly the most absurd and idiotic statement I have read on this board.

Quote: benbakdoff

I thought a Sin Tax was a tax on tobacco and alcohol. ...

I thought I remembered sin tax as having something to do with proper use of words and grammar, or maybe spelling, which is a particular problem of mine. ;-)

Quote: avargov

This is possibly the most absurd and idiotic statement I have read on this board.

I'm not going to spend time looking up this one, but Bill O'Reilly has mentioned that "in passing" several times, and he only deals in facts.

Quote: JerryLogan

I'm not going to spend time looking up this one, but Bill O'Reilly has mentioned that "in passing" several times, and he only deals in facts.

Now -that- is the most absurd and idiotic statement I've seen today.

Quote: thecesspit

Now -that- is the most absurd and idiotic statement I've seen today.

Yeah, mention of Rob Singer and Bill O'Reilly usually do rile up liberals and outsiders.

Quote: avargov

This is possibly the most absurd and idiotic statement I have read on this board.

You haven't read much Jerry, have you? That one is only in his top ten.

I see there are a few pro-war people here. Anti-war is generally accepted and not frowned upon as much as it was in the past.
Surely, there must be a few people here that are also anti-war? I can't be the only one.

As for some of the comments here; all war is bad imo because innocent people are always killed. The bombs and bullets are just not accurate enough.
I feel that it goes un-noticed because the people watching this from the television or reading about it in the newspapers are not the ones losing their families or having their legs blown off. If they were I am sure they would see the light.
But this topic has turned from a "what to do when you disagree with what taxes are spent upon?" to "is war right or wrong?" I would prefer to look at it from the tax aspect. I would imagine that there would be a few anti-abortionists who would have faced the problem of paying taxes to fund what they oppose. I recall a story about a man who packed up his belongings and moved to another state to avoid paying for abortions stating; "I've been protesting against abortion now for 20 years and I am not about to start paying for it."

Unrelated note:
Yeah, Rob Singer, I just discovered him. Bound to be a few people out there who see a kind of 'magic' in vp. Glad to see they all haven't died out.

You and your kind never ever answer the real question. When we, as a country, are faced with a Pearl Harbor or a 9/11, what do you suggest we do? Learn to speak Japanese, Arabic? Surrender, is that what you would have us do??? There is no third option, it is surrender or fight.

Quote: petro

But this topic has turned from a "what to do when you disagree with what taxes are spent upon?" to "is war right or wrong?" I would prefer to look at it from the tax aspect.

Everyone, ... I mean EVERYONE who pays taxes is paying for something somewhere, they don't want or don't or won't use.

And in some cases, like yours, something they are passionately against.

So, no one is special in that regard. We're in the same boat.

And that's all I got.

I am not pro-war, but realistic. In very simple terms, "There are bad people and good people must do something about them". In your world Hitler or Stalin would have taken over Europe. Which would you have preferred?

This opinion is one from someone who has had their immediate family in the line of fire. I was never more worried, nor as proud, as having my children serving multiple tours.

Lets hear how you would handle the threats in the real world without the military.

Just move to Aruba. Problem solved.

Seriously, with views like yours, why are you still here, helping to commit those heinous crimes?
You are right that finding a country that doesn't have an army at all may be a difficult task (I think, that difficulty should actually tell you something about your position by itself), but there are plenty of countries out there that do have an army, but do not use it to "commit crimes", and in all likelihood never will. Why don't you settle for that?
If Aruba is too hot for you, how about Lithuania or Kazakhstan or Cameroon? There are plenty of places in the world, that should be more comfortable for a person of your strict views, so, why are you still here?

I think, moving out of here is a better choice for you than going to prison - you won't have to give up everything, and other citizens won't have to pay for your food and shelter for the rest of your life, it's a win-win :)

As to the general question you asked - "what to do when you disagree with what taxes are spent upon?"
I am pretty sure, you know the answer to that - you make sure your senators and representatives know your position, and you vote for those candidates, who support it. This is how the political system works in this country. Like it is the case with the military, there are other possibilities. In places like Belarus or North Korea, for example, you don't have to rely on the opinions and expertise on some unknown people making the decisions - there is the Supreme Leader, who will always tell what to do. In Jamaica on the other hand, everyone is stoned, so you can just do whatever you want, and nobody will care. Etc. Again, there is a bunch of choices here for you.
And then again, there is always the old good, trusted way of changing political systems - you can stage a revolution or a coup, and set up the new system any way you like. Do you have something particular in mind?

About half of American households pay no income tax, so if it makes you feel any better, only half of American households are "getaway drivers".

Also, it occurred to me that one could become Amish. They're pacifists. I believe they still pay taxes though. Nobody really hates them (generally) because they aren't slackers and are salt of the Earth types and all. You'd have to give up the Internet.

I suppose the principled thing would be to withhold a portion of your taxes.

Include a little note with your 1040. I'm sure the IRS will understand.

Triple post lol sorry I have no idea how that happened.
If a mod sees these two posts can they delete them?
Embarassment.

Double post. I dunno how that happen.

Quote: rxwine

Also, it occurred to me that one could become Amish. They're pacifists. I believe they still pay taxes though.

Amish still pay taxes afaik. I respect the Amish a great deal.
Imo America is lucky to have such righteous ppl living there.
Weird Al has an awesome Amish song, check it out here.