Wizard's Venetian Review

If I may add my $0.02. I stayed at the Venetian last weekend 1/13-16. Landed at 11:00 am, in the poker room for their noon tourney.

Poker Room: As others have stated, Very big, very nice, great cocktail service, friendly and not overbearing dealers, no mistakes. What I haven't seen mentioned is that they run a good structure. $7,000 in chips for $150 with blinds starting at 25/50, 30 minute levels. Very good structure with lots of play, in my opinion. Consecutive bad beats sent me out in 24th of ~130 after 4 1/2 hours of play. Paid to 14 places.

Craps: No fire bet, minimums generally $10-$25 during day, $15-$25 at night. Didn't notice field pays, as I don't play it. Good croupiers. Played about 1 hour each night.

BJ: Played mostly in the Salon and outside the Salon at the Palazzo. MUCH quieter on that side. Venetian double deck pit is in a high traffic area (between hotel and on the way to the conference center/Palazzo). Dealers a bit quiet, but that is ok with me, pit bosses were friendly. Only 3 of 6 tables ever seemed to be opened, never more than 4 people at a table. Watched a back off in the double deck pit on Friday morning, kept me in line a bit. Played $50-2x $300, and $100-2x $400. Music was awful. Generic artist, soft jazzy remixes of Stones, Beatles, etc. Played 22 hours over weekend. DD was H17, DAS cut between 50-70% depending on dealer. Salon had S17.

3-Card Poker: $15 minimum Friday night. Never played before. Lost $200 and didn't get her number. 45 minutes. Hit one straight and one flush. Think they played something like 6- or 7-1. Like I said, didn't get her number.

Crowd was older than Palms/Hard Rock/Planet Hollywood, younger than Wynn/Flamingo/Paris. Suite was very nice. As someone else said, LOADS of securitiy around in their bright blue band-like uniforms.

Hadn't played there in a few years, as in the past they expected $350 average for full RFB. This trip I was going to stay elsewhere, but after about 2 hours of play, they sent over a host with a room/food/Emeril's comp. Ate mostly on the Palazzo side, DELICIOUS Chinese restaurant just outside the DD and Salon, Tao (overrated), Cafe Luxe. They gave me and my party of 4 a reserved booth on Sunday to watch football at Emeril's Stadium (or something like that) Fun place to watch the games. They definitely seemed to be trying harder to keep players than they have in the past.

I would recommend Venetian/Palazzo for great rooms, good/fair gambling odds and good food offerings.

Quote: Wizard

I just finished my Venetian review. This is my first review in almost a year and probably my longest. The first where a two-night stay was entirely devoted to the review. These things take a while to write up and format too. Any comments, pro or con? In particular, anything you feel is factually incorrect?

I'd also like to draw your attention to this picture. Can anybody help with a translation? I think it is in Latin, but I'm not sure.

This is the best I could do using Google Translate:

Original:

paschale ciconia VENEHAR
dvce anno christi MDXCI
VRBIS CONDITAT MCIXX
CVRANTIBVS
ATOYSIO GEORGEO PROC M Antonio Barbaro
PQ EI PROC TACOBO POSCARENO EQ FI PROC


Translation (Latin):

the stork VENEHAR the Paschal
Device in the year of Christ 1591
CONDITAT MCIXX of Rome
CVRANTIBVS
1000 George ATOYSIO ASK Antonio Barbaro
EI P and Q TACOBO ASK ASK FI POSCARENO EQ

Still needs work!

Quote: Doc

With regard to the parking garage, the thing that always seems strange to me is the route you take once you are on foot. From the parking area, you walk to the elevator area, which has an appearance as if it could be part of the hotel/casino building. You take an elevator to level whatever (3, I think), which is indicated for the casino and Grand Canal Shops. But then when you get off the elevator, you walk back out into the parking garage with the cars!

From there, you hook a 200 degree left up a walkway (partially exposed to the outdoors, I think) and back into a building to find the stuff you were looking for. It always seems to me that the other side of the elevator foyer should be connected directly by a fully-enclosed walkway to the main building. I have seen many first-time visitors get completely lost when they come off the elevator, and I have felt disoriented myself.

I remember that. It is better now. You still have to hook a 180-degree turn out of the elevators and follow a passage that zig-zags a bit. It is no longer like walking through an outdoor construction tunnel. All in all, the Venetian is a hard place to find your way around.

Quote: Doc

Just remembered a comment that I forgot to include in my earlier post about the Wizard's review.

I have only stayed there once and "completely disoriented" describes how I felt the whole time. It might have helped a little if I were
a non-drinker. As for parking, I always went to the very top, because it was cool season. It's a good rule for me to always park at the top level, that's covered level when it's hot.

With regard to the parking garage, the thing that always seems strange to me is the route you take once you are on foot. From the parking area, you walk to the elevator area, which has an appearance as if it could be part of the hotel/casino building. You take an elevator to level whatever (3, I think), which is indicated for the casino and Grand Canal Shops. But then when you get off the elevator, you walk back out into the parking garage with the cars!

From there, you hook a 200 degree left up a walkway (partially exposed to the outdoors, I think) and back into a building to find the stuff you were looking for. It always seems to me that the other side of the elevator foyer should be connected directly by a fully-enclosed walkway to the main building. I have seen many first-time visitors get completely lost when they come off the elevator, and I have felt disoriented myself.

I have only stayed there once and "completely disoriented" describes how I felt the whole time. It might have helped a little if I were
a non-drinker. As for parking, I always went to the very top, because it was cool season. It's a good rule for me to always park at the top level, that's covered level when it's hot.

Quote: dm

It's a good rule for me to always park at the top level, that's covered level when it's hot.

That is very good advice.

Or Valet. :)

Its funny how lousy the V's garage is and how good the P's is. Guess they learned by doing.

The Latin sign over the Rialto bridge is very emblematic of the philosophy of the casino. The attempt to reproduce the brilliant art of the past is unbelievable, but there is not a trace of originality in the place. It is a temple of money dedicated to a man who hopes to be the wealthiest in the world for a time before he dies.

Steve Wynn, unlike Sheldon Adelson, grew up studying and admiring art. He is more motivated by creating temples of art first, that happen to make money.

Mr. Wizard,
Thank you for an informative and descriptive review of the Venetian Hotel. It sounds like you had a great time. I am looking forward to your review of the Palazzo. I am learning to play Pai Gow Tiles and enjoying using your practice game to practice. I have a trip scheduled to Las Vegas in March but I don’t think I’ll be confident enough in my Pai Gow Tile play to sit at a table and make a wager. I noticed that your play was rated at an average of $210 per hour. I am wondering what your minimum and maximum wager was and what prompted you to raise and lower your bet?

Quote: dm

Maybe so. Do you consider your contribution to be superior to his?

I had none on that subject, I looked nothing up. I swear.

Quote: Wizard

No comment.

The patterns are there in bac. Some people see them, some don't. {shrug} Its knowing when not to bet that kills people, theres too much thinking involved. People love methods that get them out of thinking.

Quote: EvenBob

The patterns are there in bac. Some people see them, some don't. {shrug} Its knowing when not to bet that kills people, theres too much thinking involved. People love methods that get them out of thinking.

Hehehe. Are you trying to get yourself ostracized on the board :) ? Actually, I was thinking we need a good baccarat system thread. So please feel free to start one. It's one of my favorite games, to be honest.

Quote: teddys

Hehehe. Are you trying to get yourself ostracized on the board :) ? Actually, I was thinking we need a good baccarat system thread. So please feel free to start one. It's one of my favorite games, to be honest.

I don't play it anymore, too many Asian's and too much favoritism from the pit. Also, some casinos only have midi bac, where they let you fondle the cards and mutilate them. Yuk, drives me crazy and slows the game to a crawl with all the showboaters making a spectacle out of peeking at their cards, like the spots are going to change if they sneak up on them..

Quote: EvenBob

The patterns are there in bac. Some people see them, some don't. {shrug}

I'm one of those who don't.

Quote: Wizard

I'm one of those who don't.

Actually, I got the idea from a book on patterns in gambling written in the early 60's. I found it about 10 years ago at the Gamblers Bookstore in Vegas and it was a rat eared paperback. It was like $25 and in the rare book section. I don't have it anymore, I loaned it to a friend about 5 years ago and somebody stole it from him where he works. I can't even remember its title, it might have just been 'Patterns'. It was interesting, but I don't and won't play bac now, so who cares..

Quote: EvenBob

Actually, I got the idea from a book on patterns in gambling written in the early 60's. I found it about 10 years ago at the Gamblers Bookstore in Vegas and it was a rat eared paperback. It was like $25 and in the rare book section. I don't have it anymore, I loaned it to a friend about 5 years ago and somebody stole it from him where he works. I can't even remember its title, it might have just been 'Patterns'. It was interesting, but I don't and won't play bac now, so who cares..

Patterns are there, all right, but like any other observation, once you've made it, it's in the past. I can roll ten 6s with a pair of dice and then remark "hey, that was a pattern of ten 6s." It's true, but irrelevant insofar as the next roll is concerned. The idea of being able to observe patterns *and then profitably act on them* is nonsense in dice and roulette. It's mostly nonsense in baccarat in that card counting has been demonstrated not to work. The only pattern detection that's useful in house-banked casino games happens in those games in which the recent past can have a meaningful influence on future results, namely blackjack (card counting) and certain bonusing slots. But basically, if you're not counting cards, looking for patterns in the gaming outcomes is as useful as looking for patterns in the carpet.

Quote: MathExtremist

looking for patterns in the gaming outcomes is as useful as looking for patterns in the carpet.

Playing patterns in bac is difficult because you need to not bet sometimes and they don't go for that on a crowded table, or any table for that matter. You can't just sit there for 4-5 hands and not bet, the dealer will tell you to bet or leave. So I used to bet, on a $15 table, for instance, $15 on banker and $10 on player. That way I was only wagering $5 and could absorb a few possible losses. They only let me get away with it for a few bets, however, and if I tried it again, the would say no. Yet I saw Asian players doing it all the time, for hand after hand. When I would point this out to the pit, they would say 'I didn't see it'. HUH? I do it and you're on my case immediately! This happened again and again, with rule breaking, comps, partner play, they let the Asian's get away with everything and me with nothing. I used to get so furious that I finally just walked away from the game for good.

Quote: EvenBob

So I used to bet, on a $15 table, for instance, $15 on banker and $10 on player. That way I was only wagering $5 and could absorb a few possible losses. They only let me get away with it for a few bets

You're not "getting away with" anything when you do this. As soon as you started betting $10 on one side and $15 on the other, you became a $25 bettor. Your total losses would be the same as those of both one $15 player and one $10 player. It doesn't make any difference when it is one person playing both bets. I've seen casinos frown on this activity too, but in fact they should be laughing all the way to the bank when they see it.

Quote: Wizard

I'm one of those who don't.

Just because something isn't real is no reason not to see it. For instance, Jessica Alba waiting for you in your hotel room with a slice of strawberry cheesecake, and wearing nothing but a smile.

Quote: algle

You're not "getting away with" anything when you do this.

Try telling them that. They say things like "You've seen enough 'free' hands, please stop or leave the table". Unless you're Asian, of course.

Quote: mkl654321

Just because something isn't real is no reason not to see it.

And profit from it. Duh.

Quote: EvenBob

Try telling them that. They say things like "You've seen enough 'free' hands, please stop or leave the table". Unless you're Asian, of course.

Further proof, as if any were needed, that many casino staff have a very poor understanding of how their games pay their wages.

Quote: EvenBob

And profit from it. Duh.

OK, Bob, how about letting the rest of us in on the secret. What kind of pattern(s) can you recognize and then subsequently use effectively to profit from the pattern? I have never played bac, but I would be interested in learning this aspect of it. I just can't figure it out for myself.

Quote: Doc

OK, Bob, how about letting the rest of us in on the secret. What kind of pattern(s) can you recognize and then subsequently use effectively to profit from the pattern? I have never played bac, but I would be interested in learning this aspect of it. I just can't figure it out for myself.

You won't learn it from me. Its easy, just research it yourself, pattern play is certainly no secret. I figured it out and look how dumb I am, according to MKL. There are rocks that are smarter. I will tell you this much, its a lot of work to learn, requires a lot of practice at home and a lot of patience in the casino. And sometimes it doesn't work at all on a shoe and all you do is break even. Which is better than losing, I suppose. When the Wiz said 'I don't see it', he probably wasn't kidding. I've tried to show a few others and they can't see the patterns either. No matter how hard I tried, they never got it. Its like those drawings I used to see in the back of comic books when I was a kid, where you had to find the old mans face drawn into the branches of a tree. It takes awhile, but once you see it, you can't 'un' see it, its there every time you look at it.

Quote: EvenBob

You won't learn it from me. Its easy, just research it yourself, pattern play is certainly no secret. I figured it out and look how dumb I am, according to MKL. There are rocks that are smarter. I will tell you this much, its a lot of work to learn, requires a lot of practice at home and a lot of patience in the casino. And sometimes it doesn't work at all on a shoe and all you do is break even. Which is better than losing, I suppose. When the Wiz said 'I don't see it', he probably wasn't kidding. I've tried to show a few others and they can't see the patterns either. No matter how hard I tried, they never got it. Its like those drawings I used to see in the back of comic books when I was a kid, where you had to find the old mans face drawn into the branches of a tree. It takes awhile, but once you see it, you can't 'un' see it, its there every time you look at it.

Bob, I mean no disrespect, but am I correct that you don't believe in things like Singer's blackjack claims, the 99steps craps system, betting on red or black when they are "due," etc? In other words, are you otherwise a skeptical and logical gambler?

Quote: EvenBob

You won't learn it from me. Its easy, just research it yourself, pattern play is certainly no secret. I figured it out and look how dumb I am, according to MKL. There are rocks that are smarter.

Are you saying (given your punctuation) that "there are rocks that are smarter" than you, or than me?

And I do agree with you if you meant the former: rocks don't perceive patterns in baccarat shoes.

Quote: mkl654321

Are you saying (given your punctuation) that "there are rocks that are smarter" than you, or than me?

There's nobody smarter than you, rocks included.

>>rocks don't perceive patterns in baccarat shoes.>>

I wouldn't know, I've never spoken to a rock.

Quote: sunrise089

Bob, I mean no disrespect, but am I correct that you don't believe in things like Singer's blackjack claims, the 99steps craps system,

If you're asking do I expect anybody to believe me, hell no. Just making conversation. Never count the money till its in your pocket and never believe gamblers stories about how to win until he shows you, in person.

Quote: Yoyomama

Quote: Wizard

I just finished my Venetian review. This is my first review in almost a year and probably my longest. The first where a two-night stay was entirely devoted to the review. These things take a while to write up and format too. Any comments, pro or con? In particular, anything you feel is factually incorrect?

I'd also like to draw your attention to this picture. Can anybody help with a translation? I think it is in Latin, but I'm not sure.

This is the best I could do using Google Translate:

Original:

paschale ciconia VENEHAR
dvce anno christi MDXCI
VRBIS CONDITAT MCIXX
CVRANTIBVS
ATOYSIO GEORGEO PROC M Antonio Barbaro
PQ EI PROC TACOBO POSCARENO EQ FI PROC


Translation (Latin):

the stork VENEHAR the Paschal
Device in the year of Christ 1591
CONDITAT MCIXX of Rome
CVRANTIBVS
1000 George ATOYSIO ASK Antonio Barbaro
EI P and Q TACOBO ASK ASK FI POSCARENO EQ

Still needs work!

This is what I have learned:

"It's an inaccurate reproduction of an inscription on the Rialto Bridge in Venice. A photo of the original together with a transcription of the text can be found: www.chieracostui.com/costui/docs/search/schedaoltre.asp?ID=10712

PASCHALE CICONIA VENETIAR.
DUCE ANNO CHRISTI MDXCI
URBIS CONDITAE MCLXX
CURANTIBUS
ALOYSIO GEORGIO PROC. M.ANTONIO BARBARO
EQ. ET PROC. IACOBO FOSCARENO EQ. ET PROC.

Translation (Google Translate)

WHITE STORK EASTERTIDE VENETIAR.
UNDER THE COMMAND OF CHRIST IN THE YEAR 1591
1170 foundation of the city
Taking care
George ALOYSIO of the Suitors. THE BARBARIANS, Mark Antony;
EQ. And nobles. JAMES FOSCARENO EQ. And nobles.

About the Venetian version:

"My possibly flawed translation of that is as follows.

"By Pasquale Cicogna, Doge of Venice in the year of Christ 1591, 1170 of the founding of the city, with Luigi Giorgio. proc., Marcantonio Barbaro, eq. and proc., Jacopo Foscarini, eq. and proc. overseeing.

I think eq. stands for eques or knight, and proc for procurator."

Thanks to Decimus Canus at Latindiscussion.com

The symbol of St Mark, and hence the adopted symbol of Venice is a winged lion. Griffins are winged lions that also have the head and talons of an eagle. The Venetian lion retains all the attributes of a real lion, except for the wings.



The griffin is the older of the two images and goes well into the Greek era before Christ. The winged lion is associated with St. Mark, the traditional writer of one of the four gospels.

Quote: pacomartin

The symbol of St Mark, and hence the adopted symbol of Venice is a winged lion. Griffins are winged lions that also have the head and talons of an eagle. The Venetian lion retains all the attributes of a real lion, except for the wings.

The griffin is the older of the two images and goes well into the Greek era before Christ. The winged lion is associated with St. Mark, the traditional writer of one of the four gospels.

Thank you. I stand corrected.

Quote: mkl654321

rocks don't perceive patterns in baccarat shoes.

Oh, c'mon now. There are definitely patterns in baccarat shoes, just like there are on BJ shoes and roulette wheels. There's just no way for the player to know the shape of the pattern until after it's passed. Example: my roulette wheel stops on 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21. That pattern is very cool. But I'm not about to bet my life savings on 34 because of those 8 rolls...

Quote: Evenbob/Spike

You won't learn it from me. Its easy, just research it yourself, pattern play is certainly no secret. I figured it out and look how dumb I am, according to MKL. There are rocks that are smarter. I will tell you this much, its a lot of work to learn, requires a lot of practice at home and a lot of patience in the casino. And sometimes it doesn't work at all on a shoe and all you do is break even. Which is better than losing, I suppose. When the Wiz said 'I don't see it', he probably wasn't kidding. I've tried to show a few others and they can't see the patterns either. No matter how hard I tried, they never got it. Its like those drawings I used to see in the back of comic books when I was a kid, where you had to find the old mans face drawn into the branches of a tree. It takes awhile, but once you see it, you can't 'un' see it, its there every time you look at it.

As I recall, you use to claim a 70% - 80% success rate on the outside roulette EC bets, and that you practice at home by using coin flips.

Quote: Nareed

I think there's a typo on the third line. Two, actually.

It shoudl read "Vrbis Conditae," which means the year when the city was founded. This was the reference used by the Romans in their dating. They started counting time from the founding of Rome, as we now count starting at the alleged birth of Christ. So it either means the year when Venice was founded, or the year the plaque was made as related to the founding of Rome.

The year makes no sense as written.

The year 1591 when the original Rialto Bridge was completed would be MDXCI . As Nareed said the year on the plaque is meaningless.



Of all the declensions below, the one on the plaque conditat is not listed

conditus m (feminine condita, neuter conditum); first/second declension
hidden, secret
Inflection
Number Singular Plural
Case \ Gender Masculine Feminine Neuter Masculine Feminine Neuter
nominative conditus condita conditum conditī conditae condita
genitive conditī conditae conditī conditōrum conditārum conditōrum
dative conditō conditae conditō conditīs conditīs conditīs
accusative conditum conditam conditum conditōs conditās condita
ablative conditō conditā conditō conditīs conditīs conditīs
vocative condite condita conditum conditī conditae condita

Quote: pacomartin

The year 1591 when the original Rialto Bridge was completed would be MDXCI . As Nareed said the year on the plaque is meaningless.

I'm looking at the plaque again.

It states the year first as Anno Christi MDXCI. That would be 1591 AD. Then as Vrbis Conditae MCIXX, which is meaningless. Assuming the I is a typo and it should be L, it would make sense MCLXX, meaning 1170. Moreover, the traditional founding of Venice, the city, is the year 421. So 421+1170=1591. So it's the year 1591 AD and 1170 since the Founding of Venice.

Quote: Nareed

Assuming the I is a typo and it should be L, it would make sense MCLXX, meaning 1170. Moreover, the traditional founding of Venice, the city, is the year 421. So 421+1170=1591. So it's the year 1591 AD and 1170 since the Founding of Venice.

I am deeply impressed. The Wizard needs to use that in his new job. They will think he is Monk.


Mike, when you drop that bomb you need to hold your hands up like Monk does on the TV series, and reach your conclusion.

Quote: pacomartin

I am deeply impressed. The Wizard needs to use that in his new job. They will think he is Monk.

Oh, it was just a matter of figuring out the number and looking up Venice in Wikipedia. And knowing what Urbis Conditae means, which I learned from, of all places, an alternate history book.