1000x Odds!
klimate10, let us know how it goes.
The effect should be the same.
Ill be in Vegas this weekend. If anyone wants to form a Caribbean stud team, plz pm me. We need a team of 6.
Quote: klimate10BTW, it does cost the casino money on the odds bet.
While the casino does not make money on the odds bet itself, there is a loss in that it will cause people to bet on the odds, rather than on something where the house does make money.
It is analogous to this...if you intend to spend $100 at the supermarket, and you see a loss leader where the supermarket makes no money on the product, and you wind up spending your budget on the loss leader, the supermarket did not make money on the loss leader, but the supermarket lost money because, if not for the loss leader spending, it would have made money on the products what you would have purchased otherwise.
But the casino has high free odds, for the same reason the supermarket has loss leaders. The belief is that it will attract consumers who would otherwise go somewhere else.
The current crop of players are unlikely to spend $5K on a free odds bets. The hope is that the promotion will attract one or two players a day who can afford a $5K bets, another 200 players who are intrigued by the idea who venutre up to 40X to 200X before chickening out, and a 1000 players who just want to look, but actually end up playing slot machines.
I see this 1000x odds as no different from my Walmart gasoline promotion.
Walmart offers 10c off per gallon of gas. They lose money on the gas. The catch to the discount?
You have to go inside the Walmart and buy a gas card. U can't pay at the pump and you cant pay the gas cashier. Obvious...
Its a good deal as long as u can control yourself.
Quote: YoDiceRoll111000x odds is just too gimmicky. What kinda high roller wants to play at the.....Riviera. Blegh.
Yes, I agree, the Riviera sucks.
But if a craps player has the bankroll and the willingness to risk it, and is looking for a craps table with the lowest available house edge, the Riviera is the only game in town.
Almost as good a bet as the Free Buy on the 4 and 10 he plays at the tribal casino.
What's that the Wiz says: "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."
No, it isn't AP, but it would seem to be the best craps bet available in Las Vegas today.
*golf clap* ... pull an Archie Karas on 'em ...
Quote: MrVYes, I agree, the Riviera sucks.
But if a craps player has the bankroll and the willingness to risk it, and is looking for a craps table with the lowest available house edge, the Riviera is the only game in town Almost as good a bet as the Free Buy on the 4 and 10 he plays at the tribal casino.
If you really are determined to bet big, then ultimately how much does it really matter about the house edge?
Riviera: 1000X - $5000 max odds bet.
El Cortez: 10x- $5000 max odds bet.
Main Street Station: 20x - Max odds $2000 outside points, $2500 6&8
- I am not precisely sure if the Main Street rules let you put $2500 odds on a $100 line bet, or if you need to have a $125 line bet.
I mean 7 cents expected loss or $7 expected loss on a $5005 or a $5500 bet. How much is it going to matter? I would prefer El Cortez over Riviera. Main Street is a nice casino, and $2000/$2500 should be a big enough bet to satisfy almost anyone.
Quote: WizardI'm seriously considering removing references on my site to the "combined house edge" in craps.
I whined when you did that briefly once before. I would be OK with it if you made it an appendix.
Quote: WizardI'm seriously considering removing references on my site to the "combined house edge" in craps...
I would be sad if you did this - to me it is a very useful number since I am in that 10% that stick to pass+odds or DP+odds. I understand that it's really 1 bet with a house edge and a second, related bet with 0 house edge, but I like to know the weighted average.
If you do remove it, I agree with odiousgambit that you should at least keep the information available in an appendix.
Quote: YoDiceRoll11What kinda high roller wants to play at the.....Riviera. Blegh.
I heard about a big shot winning $80K playing blackjack at the Riviera. I think he was counting. Probably could have gotten away with it longer if his buddy hadn't been screaming and flipping off the security cameras.
Quote: klimate10Also, does anyone know if at the Rivera they have a full time boxman at the game?
At the casino royale, there is no boxman. There is a footman who will go back and forth, but no full time box.
This detail is very important. Not something u can call up the casino and ask.
I've only ever seen one table open even though they have four tables and there is a boxman.
There is a monster difference between 7 cents and $7. 7 cents means that after a day of playing, you will lose about $50-$100, in expect loss, depending on how you play the come bet. $7 means you will lose easily $500-1000 a day.
The fact that I am betting $5000 is irrelevant (I actually average 500-1000 per bet). Those who earn their wealth often become rich because they were good with business and money management. Stating that $5 out of $5000 is irrelevant is not good money management. Maybe I'm a cheapskate. Probably true. But I work hard for my money, I grew up poor, and $5 is a lot of money to me.
And stop knocking the Riviera. I just don't get it. The Riviera offers single deck, single zero, and 1000x odds...and everyone is so down on the Riviera. They've earned my business this weekend. I swore I read a thread on this site where people were stating that if they owned a casino that they would attract business by offering good odds and player friendly games. Now that the Riviera has done it, everyone's response is, essentially...the Riviera sucks?!!!! This proves that people deserve 6:5 blackjack. Just be sure to put it in a nice casino, with dancing girls, and with nice carpeting.
I prefer not to play at the Wynn where they offer 3,4,5x odds. I'm sure the Wynn is nice, but I already have a nice big chandelier at my nice big house for which I paid cash using small profits from my business, thank you very much. I also have a nice young girlfriend who is in very good shape and is very good at dancing...but she isn't a dancer...I mean, she can dance, just she's not that kind of dancer...if you know what I mean...ok, never mind.
We need to encourage more moves like the Riviera promotion. Next thing you know, some small competing casino might do something crazy like offer free buys on the 4,10. Competition!!!!!
To the Riviera!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: klimate10"I mean 7 cents expected loss or $7 expected loss on a $5005 or a $5500 bet. How much is it going to matter?"
yes and no. Betting $5k a whack will mean the EV means nothing really to you, maybe something to the casino. A player will find out that $50k to $100k bankroll to really play is no joke.
I second the comments that the Riv is not that bad, and is getting better. Besides the 1000x they have single-zero roulette at an affordable minimum bet, single-deck BJ (although they restrict doubling to 10 and 11), bingo, and I think are quite affordable and generous with comps. Some of their marketing I don't care for, however.
His answer included the following statement:
Quote:For most players, it won't change the game one bit.
...
But it's significant when you consider it from the casino's perspective, in that the Riviera is willing to accept a whole lot of risk for an extremely low tariff.
When I read that, it struck me as a very interesting way to phrase it, and I thought I'd share.
Quote:But it's significant when you consider it from the casino's perspective, in that the Riviera is willing to accept a whole lot of risk for an extremely low tariff.
Risk? Its an upscale offer in a downscale market. It will bring in more headlines than risk. Its an offer to sell caviar in a shelled peanuts type joint. And I ain't seen any ads about hiring scores of craps dealers. It will generate headlines, puff piece articles and it will have some dimwit coming in with a twenty dollar bill to for a buy-in because he read something in the paper.
Quote: teddysI'm still curious to hear how Klimate12 did making max (or close to max) bets. Did they keep him on the game or get testy with him?
Aren't we all, of course. You are being kind enough to assume he did well. All he had to do wrong was bring a big bankroll instead of a gigantic one. And fail to get lucky.
Quote: FleaStiffIt will generate headlines, puff piece articles and it will have some dimwit coming in with a twenty dollar bill to for a buy-in because he read something in the paper.
HEY!...I resemble that remark!
Quote: FleaStiffIt will generate headlines, puff piece articles and it will have some dimwit coming in with a twenty dollar bill to for a buy-in because he read something in the paper.
Note that it didn't get any such publicity from me. I truthfully noted the change in my craps survey but I didn't think it merited special attention.
Quote: teddysI'm still curious to hear how Klimate12 did making max (or close to max) bets. Did they keep him on the game or get testy with him?
I'm sure the dealers appreciated his no tipping policy
Quote: JohnzimboI'm sure the dealers appreciated his no tipping policy
Q: What do dealers call a high roller who wins big and walks away without leaving a tip?
A: Justifiable homicide.
;)
Quote: NareedQ: What do dealers call a high roller who wins big and walks away without leaving a tip?
A: Tiger Woods.
Woods is known as the worst tipper.
In one instance, Tiger took back a five dollar tip during a $10,000-a-hand blackjack game. His reason for that: he already tipped the dealer earlier that night.
Quote: AlanRRTAfter reading this thread, I'm reminded that Benny Binion said that if all the craps players in his casino played the 100x odds, he'd go broke.
Sooner or later the variance would bankrupt anyone. That's why the max dollar odds are really more significant than the max multiple "free odds". Main Street permits 20X odds with $2K maximum, while Riviera is limited to $5K.
Quote: AyecarumbaWould Main Street Station or the Riviera allow a player to play multiple spots to get around their max odds bet limit?
I think not.
To get around it, the bettor should bring some friends in with him, and have them all bet max, same as he does, at the same time, using money he'd given to them prior to the buy in.
The casino would have to allow that.
What, $5,000 odds isn't enough for you?
Quote: teddysWhat, $5,000 odds isn't enough for you?
It's kind of what we talked about concerning the then Harrah's buffet of buffets. Believe me, 3 meals a day was plenty. But the challenge of eating 7 full meals just because you can is there. So I can see how someone would want to max out the 1000X odds.
Good, professional dealers. No box, but a floorperson who hawks the game. One $5 table at all times; they open a $10 table on weekends. 1000x odds in effect on both, $5000 max odds. For some reason the $10 table pays triple the 12 on the field and 30/15-1 on hard/easy hops, while the $5 table doesn't (they use the stingy rules). However, when only one table is open, the $5 game is sometimes played on the $10 felt. I'm not sure if they even know there is a difference. But why would you be making center bets with 1000x odds?
Never saw any big action except for one Chinese guy taking a flyer with his companion, laying or taking $300-$500 on $5 flat bets, switching between the pass/come and don't pass/don't come. Riveria is going after some high limit Asian baccarat play with a roped off area on the main floor, fruit plates, etc. They had some good black-purple action on baccarat. No other big bettors at the craps table taking odds. The usual duffers, mostly.
Riveria is a serviceable property. It is a nice place to play. Craps is craps no matter where you play. I recommend going there and showing your appreciation for their good rules.
Quote: teddysI played here recently. Here is my nutshell review: This is a good game -- play here. I played three separate sessions with a local friend. We made one flat bet between us and pooled the odds. I won't say how much we bet, but it was more than 20x but less than 100x. The first session was a small winner. The second session was some of the worst shooting I've ever seen. Massacre. The third session was a slight improvement but didn't make up for the losses in the second.
Good, professional dealers. No box, but a floorperson who hawks the game. One $5 table at all times; they open a $10 table on weekends. 1000x odds in effect on both, $5000 max odds. For some reason the $10 table pays triple the 12 on the field and 30/15-1 on hard/easy hops, while the $5 table doesn't (they use the stingy rules). However, when only one table is open, the $5 game is sometimes played on the $10 felt. I'm not sure if they even know there is a difference. But why would you be making center bets with 1000x odds?
Never saw any big action except for one Chinese guy taking a flyer with his companion, laying or taking $300-$500 on $5 flat bets, switching between the pass/come and don't pass/don't come. Riveria is going after some high limit Asian baccarat play with a roped off area on the main floor, fruit plates, etc. They had some good black-purple action on baccarat. No other big bettors at the craps table taking odds. The usual duffers, mostly.
Riveria is a serviceable property. It is a nice place to play. Craps is craps no matter where you play. I recommend going there and showing your appreciation for their good rules.
Thanks teddys. Interesting observation regarding the felt. I'm gonna check it out. Any idea if odds bets were factored into their comps?
Never asked for any comps, or played rated for that matter. If you do ask for a comp, try the Queen Victoria pub. They have a new steakhouse that looks pretty good, too: R Steak and Seafood.Quote: AyecarumbaThanks teddys. Interesting observation regarding the felt. I'm gonna check it out. Any idea if odds bets were factored into their comps?
Interesting that you resurrect this, since I just played here the other day. Usual method: pooled bets on the odds. Friend plays a super-aggressive style with 10x odds right off the bat and continuous come. Press to 20x odds on the first hit, bank a few wins, and then go to 40x odds. Unfortunately, we never got any good shooters and busted out in about 30 minutes. (Usually is a bust-out but have taken down some major wins).Quote: ewjones080I could certainly see this scenario: A guy has $5 on the line and $27 across. Shooter establishes a four, guy full presses everything, putting the change on the odds. Shooter nails inside numbers, then finally hits the four. You'd probably get close to 100x odds on the first point. Then he might stack up wins for the next point. A $300 buy could give him about 10 shooters to try this. Even a modest roll, the guy could get up to close 1000x odds.
That often makes quite a difference.
> No box, but a floorperson who hawks the game.
A bit strange that one, but I guess I'd get used to it after a while.
>One $5 table at all times; they open a $10 table on weekends.
Thats good. They don't want to turn off their normal clientele while hoping for higher rollers to show.
>But why would you be making center bets with 1000x odds?
Yeah, why a high house edge center bet ... just make the odds bet and its a zero house edge.
>fruit plates, etc.
Puzzled me for awhile. I know that area around Harmon with so many gay bars is known as "the fruit loop" and I was confused by this "fruit plates" thing until I realized you simply meant some of those horse d'oevre thingies.
>It is a nice place to play. Craps is craps no matter where you play.
I recommend going there and showing your appreciation for their good rules.
Sounds good, but no box? Strange.
Quote: PokeraddictRiv pulled the 1000x and it is 10x now. They also dumped the single zero roulette and removed a great video BJ game. I guess they didn't want to be the best choice for gambling on the strip after all.
so i guess it is true. i saw a sign by the ghostbusters/batman slot machines that said 10x odds. i wasnt sure if it was an old sign they forgot to remove or they did drop down to 10x odds. didnt check the tables to confirm.
Quote: FleaStiffSo does anyone have an impression of how much this 1000x odds deal has actually affected the Riviera? Anyone taking advantage of it? Do the signs indicate it? Has it breathed life into the place or is it just hot air and nothing much more than that?
I never saw anyone take 100X odds bet at Casino Royale, and they have had it for decades.
I'm sure it attracts the curious.
There is a way to estimate if more is being played. The gaming report says of 38 casino licenses for the strip
A) 3 make $1 million to $12 million per year in gaming
B) 5 make $12 million to $36 million per year in gaming
C) 7 make $36 million to $72 million per year in gaming
D) 23 make $72 million or more per year in gaming.
At the end of June 2011 there were also 38 license. Only 22 made over $72 million for the fiscal year
| Las Vegas Strip | |
|---|---|
| MGM Resorts Inc | |
| 1 | ARIA RESORT & CASINO |
| 2 | BELLAGIO |
| 3 | EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO |
| 4 | MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO |
| 5 | MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO |
| 6 | MIRAGE, THE |
| 7 | MONTE CARLO RESORT & CASINO |
| 8 | NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO |
| 9 | LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO |
| Ceasars Inc | |
| 10 | CAESARS PALACE |
| 11 | BALLY'S LAS VEGAS |
| 12 | FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS/O'SHEAS |
| 13 | HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS |
| 14 | PARIS LAS VEGAS |
| 15 | PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO |
| 16 | RIO SUITE HOTEL & CASINO |
| Other Corporations | |
| 17 | GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO |
| 18 | PALMS CASINO RESORT |
| 19 | TREASURE ISLAND |
| 20 | VENETIAN CASINO RESORT |
| 21 | WYNN LAS VEGAS |
| 22 | PALACE STATION HOTEL (in City of LV) |
So we need to add one from the lower category
| 1 | BILL'S GAMBLIN' HALL & SALOON |
|---|---|
| 2 | CASINO ROYALE |
| 3 | CASUARINA CASINO LAS VEGAS |
| 4 | CIRCUS CIRCUS HOTEL (>$72M in FY08) |
| 5 | ELLIS ISLAND CASINO |
| 6 | HARD ROCK HOTEL & CASINO |
| 7 | HOOTERS CASINO HOTEL |
| 8 | IMPERIAL PALACE HOTEL (>$72M in FY09) |
| 9 | RIVIERA HOTEL & CASINO |
| 10 | SAHARA HOTEL & CASINO |
| 11 | TERRIBLE'S HOTEL AND CASINO |
| 12 | TROPICANA RESORT AND CASINO |
| 13 | TUSCANY LAS VEGAS |
| 14 | WILD WILD WEST GAMBLING HALL |
| 15 | PALMS CASINO - SPORTS POOL |
| 16 | AIRPORT SLOT CONCESSION |
My guess is that HARD ROCK HOTEL has moved up. I was reading their reports as they built the new hotel rooms and the new casino floor. Their revenue was headed above $72 million (unfortunately their costs were increasing faster than revenue).
So my guess as to the 7 casinos making $36 to $72 million
| 1 | BILL'S GAMBLIN' HALL & SALOON |
|---|---|
| 2 | CASINO ROYALE |
| 3 | CIRCUS CIRCUS HOTEL |
| 4 | IMPERIAL PALACE HOTEL |
| 5 | RIVIERA HOTEL & CASINO |
| 6 | TROPICANA RESORT AND CASINO |
| 7 | AIRPORT SLOT CONCESSION |
Now these 6 casinos (excluding airport) have 21 craps tables and made $13.102 million in a year on craps with a win percent of 12.23%.
That averages out to a revenue of $1709 per table per day out of $140K drop.
That is actually pretty low. Even the craps tables downtown make over $2K per day. In addition the craps tables in these 6 casinos have dropped in revenue by 27% since last year.
If I've guessed correctly that Riviera is in the $36-$72 million category, I would say the answer is no significant change. If Riviera is under $36 million, then the answer is still the same. They are not getting much revenue if they can't even break that barrier.
Quote: pacomartinI never saw anyone take 100X odds bet at Casino Royale, and they have had it for decades.
I'm sure it attracts the curious.
I think everyone KNEW of the Casino Royale's 100x table so I would indeed agree that many would be "curious" to see it utilized by others. And I'm sure many a craps player imagined himself taking a fling at 100x odds and being successful.
Quote: pacomartin
That averages out to a revenue of $1709 per table per day out of $140K drop.
That is actually pretty low. Even the craps tables downtown make over $2K per day. In addition the craps tables in these 6 casinos have dropped in revenue by 27% since last year.
If I've guessed correctly that Riviera is in the $36-$72 million category, I would say the answer is no significant change. If Riviera is under $36 million, then the answer is still the same. They are not getting much revenue if they can't even break that barrier.
The demographics of money seems to have changed.
Craps tables downtown make more than the strip tables? Or atleast more than the Strip tables of Mid-Tier Casinos?
Downtown tables are supposed to be slower paced than the Strip tables and yet they make more money? Well, Downtown is supposed to get more 24 hour action than the Strip but its supposed to get lower rollers. Perhaps things have changed.
The MBA types have ruled for a long time. The Evil Empire keeps skewering its players in hopes of somehow achieving The Miracle prior to encountering The Default. The M Resort opened with high hopes and a statute of Benny Binion as well as his spirit of giving the customers a good bet as well as a good stiff drink. The M Resort soon had reality hit it in the face: Crossroaders hit their dice tables on nights one and two, players started winning at their roulette wheel and those great VP offerings started to get action by Penny Shaving Hogs rather than by Benny Binion Worshipping Tourists with leaky wallets. So the M Resort retreated from the field of combat into the shelter of MBA determined offerings.
Then the Riviera became so desperate they gave it a try: offer a headline making deal and then trim it after you've reaped the publicity. So it became "Advertize Benny Binion, but Offer Benny the MBA".
Weak!Quote: PokeraddictRiv pulled the 1000x and it is 10x now. They also dumped the single zero roulette and removed a great video BJ game. I guess they didn't want to be the best choice for gambling on the strip after all.
