reno
reno
  • Threads: 124
  • Posts: 721
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 8:15:27 AM permalink
I'm planning a trip to a Harrahs property, and I noticed that if I book a room on the Total Rewards website, they require 72 hour notice for cancellation. I can book the identical room on the same night on www.hotels.com, and they only require 24 hours notice for cancellation. I'm the lowest of low rollers, so my Total Rewards rate is only $3 cheaper than the rate available to the general public on hotels.com. On this particular trip I need some flexibility, so I don't mind paying the extra $3 for the more liberal cancellation policy.

Sometimes I wonder if Harrahs is being run by amateurs. If I owned a hotel/casino, I would want to discourage my guests from using orbitz, expedia, & travelocity to book rooms at my hotel. I'd make sure that my hotel's website offered lower rates and better policies than the travel websites. Why isn't Harrahs treating their own Total Rewards members better?
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 8:34:43 AM permalink
Mobile, quick post.

If you book on Harrah's website or direct, do not cancel and fail to show up you will be charged. If you dispute those charges with the CC claiming you called Harrah's and cancelled on time (even if it is a lie) the merchant services reverses the charges 50% of the time.

Alternatively, if you book via a third-party website and dispute, you will prevail 0% of the time.

It is worth the 5% commission I pay, as the hotel, to get paid if you fail to show (and I hold the room all night) when a customer has the audacity to falsely claim he tried to cancel the reservation.

I'm a hotel manager and would gladly take a third-party booking 100% of the time. In fact, my hotels.com rate is the same to the penny.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 8:51:25 AM permalink
Last time I booked through TR, in April 2010 for a trip in May 2010, they only charged me for one night, with the rest payable at the end of my stay. I don't recall the cancelation policy, or deadline for changing dates.

But in all other booking options I've used, the charge was for the whole stay.

That difference matters. And actually I prefer to pre-pay the entire stay
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 7237
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 9:00:47 AM permalink
Harrah's is the only booking experience I've ever had for a hotel anywhere where they didn't guarantee the availability of the room that I'd reserved. Any where else in the world, even other casinos, if I reserve a non-smoking room I get a non smoking room. At Harrah's, you get whatever they feel like giving you at checkin, regardless of what you reserved.

So, yes, amateurism is involved.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 9:10:37 AM permalink
It depends upon the hotel's arrangment with the third-party.

In some cases, the third-party gives me your CC info, so I would only charge one night because that's what I would do if you booked in-house. I pay the commission directly to the third-party.

In other cases, the third-party charges your card, then deducts the commission and sends me a, “One-Shot,” card for the balance. I charge the whole thing then because there is nothing I, personally, can do for you. It's between you and the Third-Party.

If you call the third-party and explain you did not show up...say it's a two night stay...and they are in the mood to do the right thing...then they will call and request I reverse the second night to the one-shot CC.

I will do so, some places will not. If the hotel refuses, so will the third-party, unless you use them A LOT. Like 200+ room nights per year. You figure for a one night reversal the hotel refuses, they're eating 20 commissions.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 9:15:35 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Harrah's is the only booking experience I've ever had for a hotel anywhere where they didn't guarantee the availability of the room that I'd reserved.



Not once but twice I reserved a room at a hotel in Morelia, Michoacán, and they had no rooms by the time I showed up. In fact,t hey claimed they didn't even have my reservation!

The first time I let it slide. The second, I witnessed the front desk telling the same thing to another person. naturally I don't stay at that hotel anymore. It's just as well. It's an ok place and a bit cheaper than other options, but all other options are vastly better. For one thing, places like Holiday Inn, Quality Inn and Fiesta Americana, all have complimentary breakfast, gym and pool. The other has neither.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 9:16:12 AM permalink
I don't absolutely guarantee room type (except two beds) just smoking preference. You will not be charged for a better room, and your rate will be adjusted with an extra 15% deduction for a lesser room. That policy greatly incentivizes sp? avoiding screw-ups for me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 9:23:17 AM permalink
Nareed,

The overbook is intentional, padding a sell-out against cancellations. I don't, but I get plenty of walk-ins. 25% of reservations cancel and I'm still good for a sell-out.

You must have had a better rate than the one they kept, should have complained to the franchise, if applicable.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
reno
reno
  • Threads: 124
  • Posts: 721
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 9:37:30 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I'm a hotel manager and would gladly take a third-party booking 100% of the time. In fact, my hotels.com rate is the same to the penny.



Why not make the quote on your website a couple dollars lower (compared to hotels.com)? It would drive customers directly to your website.
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 1246
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 9:44:39 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Why not make the quote on your website a couple dollars lower (compared to hotels.com)? It would drive customers directly to your website.


being that I basically live in a hotel (3 nights out of the week)
I can sorta speak on this...
I see all the time, people getting screwed over because they booked through 3rd-party discounters (hotwire, Expedia, etc) rather than directly through janugget...
I get the fact that it's way cheaper...but still, to avoid hassles, I'd say go through direct...
I think they like the bookings from 3rd party through, because they get commission on BULK, rather than just piddly one night stays...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 9:45:12 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Nareed,

The overbook is intentional, padding a sell-out against cancellations. I don't, but I get plenty of walk-ins. 25% of reservations cancel and I'm still good for a sell-out.



I understand overbooking. But, 1) if that was the case, they should say so and 2) they should help me find an alternative place to stay, beyond shoving the yellow pages in my direction and letting me sue the phone.

Quote:

You must have had a better rate than the one they kept, should have complained to the franchise, if applicable.



Oh, not even close! But then I agve little information.

It's called Hotel Las Américas. It's old, outmoded (the rooms open with actual metal keys!), the rooms are very dark, the architect must have been sued for malpractice and intentional infliction of aesthetic distress, and the reservations are done over the phone only. It's not part of any larger franchise or antyhing like that. But it's conveniently located to the palce where we go on business, and within walking distance of the Office Depot. The restaurant is also quite good.

That's another reason for picking the HIExpress, BTW, though it's a bit farther from our customer. They have a complimentary business center with internet access, printers and a copier. I stay there exclusively on every business trip. they also ahve free WiFi and a big safe for the laptop.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 10:06:10 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Why not make the quote on your website a couple dollars lower (compared to hotels.com)? It would drive customers directly to your website.



Asked and answered. I would prefer you book on Hotels.com because then you can't no-show claiming you cancelled and have the CC reverse the charges.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 10:08:12 AM permalink
Quote: TIMSPEED

being that I basically live in a hotel (3 nights out of the week)
I can sorta speak on this...
I see all the time, people getting screwed over because they booked through 3rd-party discounters (hotwire, Expedia, etc) rather than directly through janugget...
I get the fact that it's way cheaper...but still, to avoid hassles, I'd say go through direct...
I think they like the bookings from 3rd party through, because they get commission on BULK, rather than just piddly one night stays...



I'm having difficulty understanding who you are suggesting gets commission, the hotel pays commission to the TPW.

Further, can you please define what you mean by, "Screwed over," so I may properly address that aspect of the post?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 10:15:46 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I understand overbooking. But, 1) if that was the case, they should say so and 2) they should help me find an alternative place to stay, beyond shoving the yellow pages in my direction and letting me sue the phone.



You should avoid independent hotels, I have heard managers of independent hotels directly tell people to, "F*** off," if they don't like it. If you think about it, they can get away with that...it's a little tougher now with on-line review sites such as TripAdvisor, but you'll still do well on walk-ins and desperate people when everyone else is sold-out and/or too high.

The proper procedure for an overbook is to find you a place to stay AND pay for it. You'll never get that from an independent, but if a franchised hotel overbooks on you, even if they try not to pay, the corporation will pay if you call them and complain about the overbook. Just make sure to get an E-Mail Confirmation letter so you can prove it. The corporation will remiburse you and bill the hotel, usually.


Quote:

Oh, not even close! But then I agve little information.

It's called Hotel Las Américas. It's old, outmoded (the rooms open with actual metal keys!), the rooms are very dark, the architect must have been sued for malpractice and intentional infliction of aesthetic distress, and the reservations are done over the phone only. It's not part of any larger franchise or antyhing like that. But it's conveniently located to the palce where we go on business, and within walking distance of the Office Depot. The restaurant is also quite good.

That's another reason for picking the HIExpress, BTW, though it's a bit farther from our customer. They have a complimentary business center with internet access, printers and a copier. I stay there exclusively on every business trip. they also ahve free WiFi and a big safe for the laptop.



I'm going to respectfully request that you never say something as amusing as, "Intentional infliction of aesthetic distress," to me again, because I may well laugh so hard that I urinate myself next time.

If you like that hotel, then I would continue to stay there. HI Express is a fairly consistent brand, in my opinion, so you're going to know what you are getting regardless of where you go. I'm afraid, pursuant to my rules of professionalism, I will not tell you (or anyone else) what brands I consider to be incosistent. However, should I ever end up in a different racket, have I got some stories...
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 10:16:31 AM permalink
In 4 trips to Vegas, I booked hotels once through Expedia, twice through TR and once through an airline (Volaris). In every case I got the room I requested at the price agreed upon for the time I wanted.

When I travel on business it's usually short notice and for one night, so those I book directly with the hotel. I prefer the website, though HIExpress will keep reservations until noon even without a credit card.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 10:22:53 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

In 4 trips to Vegas, I booked hotels once through Expedia, twice through TR and once through an airline (Volaris). In every case I got the room I requested at the price agreed upon for the time I wanted.

When I travel on business it's usually short notice and for one night, so those I book directly with the hotel. I prefer the website, though HIExpress will keep reservations until noon even without a credit card.



I was not aware of that pertaining to HI, do you know if it is just that one or is it a corporate thing? I will not book a reservation without a credcit card in any way, shape or form whatsoever. That usually means they are paying cash, as well, and I would prefer CC to cash.

You will get your requested room at most major hotels and franchises, the only real exception at my hotel (because I NEVER completely overbook) is a room type overbook because I only have 2-3 rooms in some of my room types. If someone wants to stay longer than anticipated, I try to keep them in the same room, unless it is absolutely impossible. I occasionally have to upgrade someone to a King Suite instead of a Standard King to accomodate a Standard King staying longer than expected, but that's not too bad of a hit.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 10:53:42 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I was not aware of that pertaining to HI, do you know if it is just that one or is it a corporate thing?



If you try it on the website, it won't go through without a CC. If you do it on the phone, they tell you they'll make the reservation, but that they won't necessarily honor it past noon. I don't know if it's corporate policy or not, and I've tried it only in the hotel in Guanajuato. That time on arrival I was asked to pay for the night, either in cash or CC. I paid cash, no problems.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 1:28:08 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

If you try it on the website, it won't go through without a CC. If you do it on the phone, they tell you they'll make the reservation, but that they won't necessarily honor it past noon. I don't know if it's corporate policy or not, and I've tried it only in the hotel in Guanajuato. That time on arrival I was asked to pay for the night, either in cash or CC. I paid cash, no problems.



I called the local Holiday Inn Express because, even though they're my competition, we're on friendly terms...send one another rooms when one is sold out and the other isn't...that sort of thing.

In any event, they said they would absolutely not accept a reservation without a CC, so it must vary from hotel to hotel in that franchise. That makes sense, because hotels in my franchise can certainly take a reservation from whoever they want regardless of method of guarantee, or lack thereof.

I'll accept cash from a walk-in if it is my only shot at renting the room that night. I'll also take cash from someone who guaranteed with CC, but I'm keeping the CC on file.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
weaselman
weaselman
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 1:34:49 PM permalink
Quote: reno


Sometimes I wonder if Harrahs is being run by amateurs. If I owned a hotel/casino, I would want to discourage my guests from using orbitz, expedia, & travelocity to book rooms at my hotel. I'd make sure that my hotel's website offered lower rates and better policies than the travel websites.



No, you would not. If you tried to pull something like that, expedia would simply drop you from inventory. They can afford it. You can't.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 1:43:13 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

In any event, they said they would absolutely not accept a reservation without a CC, so it must vary from hotel to hotel in that franchise. That makes sense, because hotels in my franchise can certainly take a reservation from whoever they want regardless of method of guarantee, or lack thereof.



You'd be surprised how many people in Mexico who are well off have no credit cards, or even bank accounts in some cases.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 2:36:47 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

No, you would not. If you tried to pull something like that, expedia would simply drop you from inventory. They can afford it. You can't.



They cannot stop you from doing that, nor would they drop you from their inventory for that reason alone. You have to consider that they get a commission, so they really don't care how much they are selling the rooms for or how many rooms at one particular hotel they sell.

You are kind of right in a way, though. If you made the rates SO much higher on the TPW's that they were actually losing money just by listing you, almost impossible as it would require zero bookings/year, then you'd probably be dropped.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 2:41:56 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You'd be surprised how many people in Mexico who are well off have no credit cards, or even bank accounts in some cases.



I imagine that some people would be surprised. It's not required for as much down there as it is here. For what few locales still have physical video rental places, you even need one to open an account at one of those.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
weaselman
weaselman
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 2:58:29 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

They cannot stop you from doing that, nor would they drop you from their inventory for that reason alone. You have to consider that they get a commission, so they really don't care how much they are selling the rooms for or how many rooms at one particular hotel they sell.


No, you have to consider they don't care who they get the commission from. They have many properties to offer, you only have one, and are trying to compete with all the others. If they say "jump", you say "how high?".

That's the hotel business ... Air travel is the opposite. Airlines get to pay almost no commission and if you look at them wrong, they will forbid you to offer their flights.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
June 29th, 2012 at 2:59:00 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I imagine that some people would be surprised. It's not required for as much down there as it is here. For what few locales still have physical video rental places, you even need one to open an account at one of those.



You don't need it for video rentals, but it si required for an awful lot of things. Still, for some thigns you can use a debit card, and there are prepaid cards available for services as well. Many online companies take prepaid cards, for example.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 3:32:25 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

No, you have to consider they don't care who they get the commission from. They have many properties to offer, you only have one, and are trying to compete with all the others. If they say "jump", you say "how high?".

That's the hotel business ... Air travel is the opposite. Airlines get to pay almost no commission and if you look at them wrong, they will forbid you to offer their flights.



I'm sorry, but with all due respect, your first paragraph is incorrect...precisely because they don't care who they get the commission from. If an individual makes a booking at a certain property in N. Las Vegas, for example, because that property has a cheaper rate than yours, what does the TPE care as long as that particular TPE is the entity booking the room?

If they told me to jump, I'd say, "Why?"

I've been a hotel manager for over five years and in the industry for over six years, and your first paragraph does not reflect my experience, or the experience of any other GM I have ever spoken to. I do not know anything about the airline business.

I could maybe understand it if I offered a rate on Travelocity that was much lower than my Hotels.com rate, why Hotels.com might drop me then, it makes them look bad, but they have absolutely zero concern with what I do on my own website. How could I submit my desired rates directly into their system (which I can) if that is something they were worried about?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 29th, 2012 at 3:34:03 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You don't need it for video rentals, but it si required for an awful lot of things. Still, for some thigns you can use a debit card, and there are prepaid cards available for services as well. Many online companies take prepaid cards, for example.



Absolutely, I take prepaid cards here and will use them for booking as long as I can pre-auth the expected room total and tax.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
weaselman
weaselman
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 3:47:34 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


I'm sorry, but with all due respect, your first paragraph is incorrect...precisely because they don't care who they get the commission from.


They will sell about the same number of bookings whether they list your particular property or not, and make abotu the same commission. What they do not want to happen is for the users to start talking about it being possible to get better rates on individual hotel sites than the OTA. This will never happen.


Quote:

If they told me to jump, I'd say, "Why?"


Because if you don't, they'll take your listing down, and it will cost you, probably, upwards of 50% of your bookings.


Quote:

I've been a hotel manager for over five years and in the industry for over six years, and your first paragraph does not reflect my experience, or the experience of any other GM I have ever spoken to.


Are you saying your hotel is listed on expedia and priceline and has better rates online than what they list? What is the hotel?

Quote:

I could maybe understand it if I offered a rate on Travelocity that was much lower than my Hotels.com rate, why Hotels.com might drop me then


No, that actually does happen. The OTAs don't generally interfere with others getting special deals and private rates from their providers, because, if they did, it would affect their own ability to get those deals too.
Besides, the OTAs sometimes run those "deals" on their own e.g., by offering a "package discount" and eating the difference, or by buying the inventory in bulk, and then selling it (possibly at a loss).

Quote:

it makes them look bad, but they have absolutely zero concern with what I do on my own website.


You can do whatever you want on your website. But you will not be selling your inventory to them for more than your rack rate.

Quote:

How could I submit my desired rates directly into their system (which I can) if that is something they were worried about?


They are not worried about that much. If they find out you are doing it, they will ask you nicely to stop, and check back, perhaps, in a few months if they don't forget. If the problem is still there, they delist you until it is fixed.
Most providers comply simply because it is in their best interest (in more ways then one), so it is not worth it to put some kind of a strong enforcement system in place. You can submit your rates to their system. But they should not be higher than your rack rate (most large providers actually have it the contract that it must be at least a certain percentage lower).
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
  • Threads: 117
  • Posts: 6219
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
June 29th, 2012 at 4:01:56 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The proper procedure for an overbook is to find you a place to stay AND pay for it. You'll never get that from an independent, but if a franchised hotel overbooks on you, even if they try not to pay, the corporation will pay if you call them and complain about the overbook. Just make sure to get an E-Mail Confirmation letter so you can prove it. The corporation will remiburse you and bill the hotel, usually.


Wait...you mean that "if you have a confirmed reservation that is overbooked, the hotel has to find you a room at a rate no higher than the one for which you were confirmed" isn't a law? I have been overbooked three times, twice in California and once in DC, and this is what happened all three times (admittedly, all three were chains - two were Omni/Dunfey, and one was Quality), so I figured that it was more than just some sort of "common courtesy." (Did I ever tell you about the time I arrived on June 30, only to discover that my travel agent apparently made the reservation for July 30?)
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 4:18:22 PM permalink
Quote: reno

I'm planning a trip to a Harrahs property, and I noticed that if I book a room on the Total Rewards website, they require 72 hour notice for cancellation.

Are you planning on cancelling? How often do you find yourself cancelling a reservation?

I've only ever cancelled a reservation once and that was for SuperBowl weekend at The Bellagio in 2002. The NFL postponed the SuperBowl one week that Winter because of 9/11. I had an inkling that was going to happen so I double booked myself before they could jack up the rates. I ended up saving about half a grand.

Edit: Just remembered, I cancelled a reservation for New Orleans after Katrina but it was really a mutual thing since the hotel didn't have windows or potable water.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
June 29th, 2012 at 4:57:11 PM permalink
I'm coming late to this party, and after scanning this, I didn't really see a ton of postings specifically about caesars.com.

The website can be a little bit screwy, but overall it's okay. I had a major problem when trying to book an extra night in Atlantic City, where I was getting a higher price being a TR member, than if I didn't sign in. When I called an complained, I got the runaround and it was just a very bad scenario.

However, I tend to go for comped rooms first. These come up more frequently for me, so if I don't show up, I only lose 5000 RCs. Even if I cancel the same day, they typically don't charge the 5000 RCs.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
June 30th, 2012 at 5:45:35 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

They will sell about the same number of bookings whether they list your particular property or not, and make abotu the same commission. What they do not want to happen is for the users to start talking about it being possible to get better rates on individual hotel sites than the OTA. This will never happen.



Exactly, the only thing they won't do is have a sale when everyone else is sold out except my property, or when a guest actually prefers my property to others in the area. You don't maximize your revenue as a TPW by delisting hotels. It's very much a last resort.

Quote:

Because if you don't, they'll take your listing down, and it will cost you, probably, upwards of 50% of your bookings.



It would cost me upwards of 3% of my bookings. I'm about 40% Walk-Ins, 35% Franchise Website, 20% Call-Ins, 5% TPW's.

Quote:

Are you saying your hotel is listed on expedia and priceline and has better rates online than what they list? What is the hotel?



That would reveal my personal location, so I'm not answering that. I have already stated that my on-line rates are the same across the board, I'm talking about what you could do.


Quote:

No, that actually does happen. The OTAs don't generally interfere with others getting special deals and private rates from their providers, because, if they did, it would affect their own ability to get those deals too.
Besides, the OTAs sometimes run those "deals" on their own e.g., by offering a "package discount" and eating the difference, or by buying the inventory in bulk, and then selling it (possibly at a loss).



I'm not familiar with that, but this is not a resort location by any stretch of the imagination. I know that happens, don't get me wrong, but I have no procedural experience with that.


Quote:

You can do whatever you want on your website. But you will not be selling your inventory to them for more than your rack rate.



Yes, you can. I used to, they didn't stop me, the franchise did.

Quote:

They are not worried about that much. If they find out you are doing it, they will ask you nicely to stop, and check back, perhaps, in a few months if they don't forget. If the problem is still there, they delist you until it is fixed.
Most providers comply simply because it is in their best interest (in more ways then one), so it is not worth it to put some kind of a strong enforcement system in place. You can submit your rates to their system. But they should not be higher than your rack rate (most large providers actually have it the contract that it must be at least a certain percentage lower).



Yes, the franchise says that it must be the same. That was not always the case, and the TPW's didn't have a problem with it when it wasn't, or if they did, they never notified me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
reno
reno
  • Threads: 124
  • Posts: 721
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
July 17th, 2012 at 7:41:55 AM permalink
A couple days ago, I booked a room for a 1 night stay in August at Harvey's Tahoe using my Total Rewards account. After completing the reservation I found out that my August schedule had changed and I would be able to stay in Tahoe for an additional night.

But the Total Rewards website would not allow me to add an additional night to my reservation. This is truly crazy. A casino should make it as easy as possible to add additional nights to an existing reservation... the longer I stay the more I gamble. Right?
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
July 17th, 2012 at 7:52:40 AM permalink
Quote: reno

A couple days ago, I booked a room for a 1 night stay in August at Harvey's Tahoe using my Total Rewards account. After completing the reservation I found out that my August schedule had changed and I would be able to stay in Tahoe for an additional night.

But the Total Rewards website would not allow me to add an additional night to my reservation. This is truly crazy. A casino should make it as easy as possible to add additional nights to an existing reservation... the longer I stay the more I gamble. Right?



Could you tell if they had the availability? If so, then I would just call the hotel and ask them to add a night.

Is it possible, though, that this was an on-line prepay? If it is a prepay it cannot be changed as it has already been charged. I get people upset with me all the time because they book Priceline and there's nothing I can do with it (including reducing length of stay), I say, "You have to call Priceline." They say, "I'll be on hold forever!" I reply, "That's why you should have booked directly."
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
jml24
jml24
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 295
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
July 17th, 2012 at 9:30:20 AM permalink
I'm a bit late to this thread but found the discussion very interesting especially the info from Mission146 on the hotel business. It seems to me that when talking about a casino hotel the calculation is a bit different than a normal hotel. I normally prefer to book direct with the hotel unless I can get a MUCH cheaper rate through the online sites, for many reasons:

- Usually (although for some reason not in the OP) better cancellation policies

- Can deal with the hotel directly in case of problems

- Some hotels seem to have specific crappy rooms they assign to guests that booked on discount sites. 8 or so years ago I would stay in Manhattan at a really nice hotel using hotels.com. Each time I would get the same EXACT room: tiny, next to the elevator, window facing a close by wall. It was still worth it because of the excellent deal and location.

- The travel sites don't seem to have such good deals any more. Lots of the hotel sites can match or beat the online travel sites where you know the hotel and can cancel and you don't have to pay in advance. Often you can do even better if you join their "preferred" club which is always free.

When dealing with a casino the same considerations apply but there is the additional incentive of comps. If you plan to gamble there is always the possibility of getting your room comped. Combined with the deals casinos give to their rewards members it seems this factor means you should always book directly unless you don't plan to gamble.
weaselman
weaselman
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
July 17th, 2012 at 10:39:22 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

It would cost me upwards of 3% of my bookings. I'm about 40% Walk-Ins, 35% Franchise Website, 20% Call-Ins, 5% TPW's.


Then you don't care, I guess. I was talking about normal more typical hotels, that get a significant fraction of their bookings through OTAs (industry average for non-branded hotels is about 45% in the US, but that does not include OTA referrals, like display ad and "compare prices" clicks on OTA websites). For larger chains, it's more like 12-15%, which is also significant (and keep in mind, it is 15% of a much larger volume, enough for them to care a lot about keeping OTAs really happy).

A somewhat related recent anecdote: google wants all results to be instant, so they insist on constantly polling all the hotels for prices in the background, so that when a user searches, the results are immediately available. Marriott had problems with that because their data center was not handling google's volume very well. They said it would take 6 months to upgrade hardware and software on their side to satisfies google's requirements. Google said "you have two weeks, after that we are shutting you off". They fixed it in 9 days.

In your case, it looks like it would actually make a lot of sense to remove your listing from OTAs, and invest the saved commission into advertisement, to (more than) make up for the lost OTA traffic. If you are getting only 3% from an OTA site, they are not worth the commission you pay them.



Quote:

That would reveal my personal location, so I'm not answering that. I have already stated that my on-line rates are the same across the board, I'm talking about what you could do.


No, you said:
Quote: Mission146

your first paragraph does not reflect my experience


My first paragraph was about hotels not offering rack rates better than what they advertise through OTAs.


Quote:

Yes, you can. I used to, they didn't stop me, the franchise did.


So, they told the franchise to stop you. You say "six", I say "half dozen". Same result.


Quote:

Yes, the franchise says that it must be the same. That was not always the case, and the TPW's didn't have a problem with it when it wasn't, or if they did, they never notified me.


Yeah, it would be very inefficient for them to have to deal with every individual owner. They just told the franchise to make sure it stops before they shut them off.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
July 17th, 2012 at 10:39:44 AM permalink
Quote: reno

A couple days ago, I booked a room for a 1 night stay in August at Harvey's Tahoe using my Total Rewards account. After completing the reservation I found out that my August schedule had changed and I would be able to stay in Tahoe for an additional night.

But the Total Rewards website would not allow me to add an additional night to my reservation. This is truly crazy. A casino should make it as easy as possible to add additional nights to an existing reservation... the longer I stay the more I gamble. Right?



This is the number one problem with the TR website for reservations, and I think it should be easily fixable, but for one reason or another, it's not. It drives me nuts every time I book early, then want to make a change to have to call the 1-800 number where you get a worthless person who really can't help you a lot.

My advice is to call 1-800-CAESARS and explain what you want. RARELY, though it has happened, they will get you in the second night at a cheaper or comped rate. Even though they operate on the same theoretical system, it's amazing how you can get a free room one way, and not the other. When booking seriously, I've used both if I can't get the whole trip free on the website.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
July 17th, 2012 at 10:49:07 AM permalink
The commission is based only on rooms booked, it's a percentage, nothing more or less. I'll take the OTA bookings because they are guaranteed money against a no-show reservation, which direct phone calls are only to an extent.

The OTA had nothing to do with the franchise's directive. In fact, the franchise was going to drop a few of the OTA's recently because they were demanding last room availability amongst other ridiculous requests.

The franchise's directive came out of a desire for rate parity. It was because some hotels were charging LESS via OTA's than franchise-direct website and the franchise did not like that at all. That the rates must now be even (for those of us with higher OTA rates) is simply an unintended consequence of the blanket directive of the franchise. Your bottom sentence is also incorrect, in this case, for the same reasons.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
weaselman
weaselman
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
July 17th, 2012 at 10:57:03 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The commission is based only on rooms booked, it's a percentage, nothing more or less.


I know what commission is, thank you :)
What I am saying is you could find a better use for that money. If it really is only 3% of bookings, you should be better off shutting it off, and investing into advertisement to make up for the 3% several times over, and without commissions.

Quote:

In fact, the franchise was going to drop a few of the OTA's recently because they were demanding last room availability amongst other ridiculous requests.


If you are correct about the 3%, I can definitely see why they wanted to do it, what I don't understand is why in the world they ended up giving up the idea.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
JamieV
JamieV
  • Threads: 7
  • Posts: 106
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
July 17th, 2012 at 11:30:39 AM permalink
This is so true. Calling a TR property is much more advantageous because I always seem to get comped "P' suits when I call rather than booking on-line. In fact, every time I check on the website anything above the standard room costs me money. But when I call, I can get strip view or suites for free. So frustrating!

Furthermore, I have always had problems using a third party to book rooms. I only book rooms directly through the property. The only third party booking service I use is to book flights...
Bang Biscuit!
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
July 20th, 2012 at 7:38:35 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I know what commission is, thank you :)
What I am saying is you could find a better use for that money. If it really is only 3% of bookings, you should be better off shutting it off, and investing into advertisement to make up for the 3% several times over, and without commissions.


If you are correct about the 3%, I can definitely see why they wanted to do it, what I don't understand is why in the world they ended up giving up the idea.



I apologize for missing this response, don't know how I did it.

I understand what you are saying in the first sentence, but if we look at one-night stays, then that 3% is more likely about 20%. I actually happen to know that it is more like 17%, but who's counting?

The vast majority of the travelers in this area are people working in the area whether it be road crews, natural gas drillers, title abstractors, power company guys, cell phone tower guys or coal miners. The majority of the stays at this hotel are either walk-ins or direct calls because that is the only way you are going to get a weekly or four-day rate. We don't have that option available on-line.

There's also still the point about the guaranteed unarguable no-show charge. The companies/workers never object to being charged for that first night on a no-show because it's not their first time to the rodeo, they know the score. It is the one-nighters that always want to try to dispute it with the C.C. companies. If they book through an OTA, they can't, and even if they do, it's the OTA's problem.

The 3% is not a national number.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
  • Jump to: