End of the road for Lake Mead??
Aside from that, usage is also human caused, not natural cycles like some claim.
So, either way..human caused, take your pick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LamtSUkkPM
Update from Sacramento area news about exceptionally rainy/snowy winter weather replenishing reservoirs in California. The snow pack melt in the spring should bring some rivers back to life. Not sure how much it will help Lake Mead at this time, we'll find out in a few months.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyYou can get daily updates for the Lake Mead water level at Lake Mead Water Database. The improvement is far less than I would have expected for the recent precipitation volume.
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The improvement will come in the Spring when the snow melts and the water flows into the lakes.
The recent atmospheric rivers seem to be squeezed dry by the Sierra, leaving little to travel eastward to the Rockies.
So, where does the winter moisture come from for the Rockies?
I've read that it would take at least ten more winters like this one to get the Lakes back to 1960s levels. There are too many people sticking straws in the supply.
Quote: MrVI wonder what has to happen in order for the snowpack in Colorado etc. to get healthy enough to provide melt off to refill Lake Mead?
First thing has to happen is people have to accept that the area is a desert. Need to get some common sense, like prohibiting HOAs from requiring people water lawns in a desert.
Next, it did not happen overnight but over 2 decades. It will take the same time to recover.
Third, we may need to realize we are in a very long term cycle here. It could be a 100 year cycle with 20 years of drought to a 1000 year cycle with 100 years of drought.
Finally, we should invite the Israelis and ask how they solved their water problems. They are experts.
Residents are using paper plates and skipping on showers.`
They claim the builders had applied as if they would be part-time vacation homes requiring much less water than full-time homes but were marketing them as homes.
Quote: billryanTwo developments just outside of Flagstaff have had their water cut off by the city. Even though they were outside the city limits, the city has provided water to them at a fee for decades. Now the residents have to find new water sources. Most have 5,000-gallon tanks that require once-a-month servicing, and the average household is paying over $650 for water and are having trouble finding long-term commitments. These were half-a-million-dollar houses, but I'm sure this is doing wonders for the property values.
Residents are using paper plates and skipping on showers.`
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Did you mean Scottsdale instead of Flagstaff or is there another one?
Apparently there’s tons of 4-5 parcel developments strung together specifically to avoid the law requiring 6+ home developments to have a 100 year water source.
If you ask me they can start the water restrictions with the golf courses…or maybe the state shouldn’t be leasing land to the Saudi’s used specifically to strip the states groundwater when they don’t have it for their residents.
Quote:Even with this winter's above-average snowpack in the Rocky Mountains, water officials and scientists say everyone in the Colorado River Basin will need to plan for low reservoir levels for years to come. And some say they think the river's major reservoirs probably won't refill in our lifetimes.
"They're not going to refill. The only reason they filled the first time is because there wasn't demand for the water. In the 1950s, ’60s, ’70s and ’80s, there was no Central Arizona Project, there was no Southern Nevada Water Authority, there was not nearly as much use in the Upper [Colorado River] Basin," said Bill Hasencamp, manager of Colorado River resources for the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. "So the water use was low. So that filled up storage."
Quote: ChumpChangeThere's 40 million people running out of water depending on the immediate supply sometime in the near future. I've got to wonder if someone orders a new car at a car dealership today, will California run out of water before the car gets delivered 6-12+ months from now?
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You should go back a year or so and see how many of your predictions come true.
Quote: MrVWe have more water than we need in the Pacific NW, help yourself to all you need.
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That is the hope.
Quote:The first successful well in the Las Vegas Valley was drilled in 1907, and in March 1911 the city of Las Vegas was officially incorporated with about 800 residents. By 1912, more than 100 wells had been drilled. “Many of these wells were uncapped, and water was just spewing across the landscape.
Quote: billryanArizona commissioned a study last year on the feasibility of a pipeline. Where the original idea was to construct several pipes, the new study recommends a one hundred-foot right of way, with a twenty to forty-foot channel, some 70 feet deep.
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From where?
AZ could build a pipeline from the ocean and use solar to desalinate, at least in theory. Call Israel for advice.
Quote: rxwineLas Vegas pumped all its original spring water dry in 1962.
Quote:The first successful well in the Las Vegas Valley was drilled in 1907, and in March 1911 the city of Las Vegas was officially incorporated with about 800 residents. By 1912, more than 100 wells had been drilled. “Many of these wells were uncapped, and water was just spewing across the landscape.
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Las Vegas translates roughly to The Meadows. The valley was mainly grasslands with many natural springs when it was first discovered. There is still a large area east of Boulder Highway that is a wetland with animals and fauna you won't see anywhere else in the Vegas Valley. According to the curator of the Clark County Museum, it was like that for thousands of years before settlers and irrigation canals destroyed it.
Quote:the BBC says, “The running water helps the panels to remain cool, which increases their efficiency by at least 2.5-5%.” France has developed a similar program for using solar panels to shade parking lots — generating electricity, saving space, and cooling down the area underneath.
Quote: billryanTo get the needed canals built, we will be calling them moats, and building a bridge on top of a moat ruins the whole charade.
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My city has more canals than any other city in the world.
Quote: DieterWould you categorize those as waterways or aqueducts?
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I would guess both.
The majority of them offer access to the Gulf of Mexico so I would presume to call those waterways. Some are just landlocked so those might be more aqueduct.
I don't think you can call them aqueducts, as they are not supplying water to anywhere. Much of South Florida is covered in canals, and many are used as waterways, but they were originally constructed for drainage and flood control.Quote: DieterWould you categorize those as waterways or aqueducts?
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Although, on DRich's maps, it looks like several of those canals were created for the purpose of maximizing the number of "waterfront" properties.
Back to the aqueducts moats, my understanding is that many moats had bridges.
The trick is that they need to be drawbridges if the moat is supposed to be moatly.
Quote: DieterThanks.
Back to the aqueducts moats, my understanding is that many moats had bridges.
The trick is that they need to be drawbridges if the moat is supposed to be moatly.
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Some people build bridges; some people build walls. The Moat of America could be built from the Mississippi to The Sea of Cortez, solving two issues with one project.
Quote: Joeman
Although, on DRich's maps, it looks like several of those canals were created for the purpose of maximizing the number of "waterfront" properties.
That is absolutely correct for the city I live in. What I think is funny is that they created neighborhoods with canals that don't even go out to open water. Basically you can have a boat in your backyard but only go up and down the canals.
Quote: DRichQuote: Joeman
Although, on DRich's maps, it looks like several of those canals were created for the purpose of maximizing the number of "waterfront" properties.
That is absolutely correct for the city I live in. What I think is funny is that they created neighborhoods with canals that don't even go out to open water. Basically you can have a boat in your backyard but only go up and down the canals.
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If you love mosquitos it is the thing to do.
Do you live at the Venetian?Quote: DRichThat is absolutely correct for the city I live in. What I think is funny is that they created neighborhoods with canals that don't even go out to open water. Basically you can have a boat in your backyard but only go up and down the canals.
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https://www.casino.org/news/filling-lake-mead-with-mississippi-river-water-no-longer-a-pipe-dream/
Quote: odiousgambita treat to beat your feet in the mississippi mud coming soon [er or later?]
https://www.casino.org/news/filling-lake-mead-with-mississippi-river-water-no-longer-a-pipe-dream/
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Be cheaper to build desalinization plants along the Pacific and pump that water instead. Furthermore, the brine contains valuable minerals that can be extracted and used commercially, Leave Old Man River be.
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: odiousgambita treat to beat your feet in the mississippi mud coming soon [er or later?]
https://www.casino.org/news/filling-lake-mead-with-mississippi-river-water-no-longer-a-pipe-dream/
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Be cheaper to build desalinization plants along the Pacific and pump that water instead. Furthermore, the brine contains valuable minerals that can be extracted and used commercially, Leave Old Man River be.
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What becomes of the salt? You can't pour it back into the ocean; salting fields is destructive. What do other countries do with the salt?
Phoenix and the metro area are about 250 miles from a saltwater source. Do you pump salt water inland and process it there or put the plant in Mexico, with all its inherent problems? Is it a good idea to entrust the future water for a hundred million people in an area controlled by criminal cartels? Building it in California makes more sense but will cost much more. If California can use desalinization to offset a third of the water they now draw from the Colorado, there would be more than enough for the other states.
Quote: billryanQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: odiousgambita treat to beat your feet in the mississippi mud coming soon [er or later?]
https://www.casino.org/news/filling-lake-mead-with-mississippi-river-water-no-longer-a-pipe-dream/
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Be cheaper to build desalinization plants along the Pacific and pump that water instead. Furthermore, the brine contains valuable minerals that can be extracted and used commercially, Leave Old Man River be.
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What becomes of the salt? You can't pour it back into the ocean; salting fields is destructive. What do other countries do with the salt?
Phoenix and the metro area are about 250 miles from a saltwater source. Do you pump salt water inland and process it there or put the plant in Mexico, with all its inherent problems? Is it a good idea to entrust the future water for a hundred million people in an area controlled by criminal cartels? Building it in California makes more sense but will cost much more. If California can use desalinization to offset a third of the water they now draw from the Colorado, there would be more than enough for the other states.
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The solids from desalinization contain minerals that are commercially valuable. Want abundant lithium for EV batteries and nuclear fusion? Seawater contains an almost unlimited supply. The list can go on. If we stop thinking of brine and salt as waste and start thinking of brine and salt as resources. And, yes. the lest overs can go back into the ocean if done right. Where do we put the desalinization plants? We put them where the salt water is, then pump the fresh water where it needs to go. That's gotta be cheaper than building a pipeline 80+feet in diameter 1,000 miles over the Rockies. And I don't think the folks who depend on Old Man River for commerce will allow already scarce water to be permanently diverted away.
Welcome to Vegas
--------Drink your own urine--------
******************************
DEC. 16, 2022 5 AM PT
LAS VEGAS — The Colorado River’s largest reservoirs stand nearly three-quarters empty, and federal officials now say there is a real danger the reservoirs could drop so low that water would no longer flow past Hoover Dam in two years.
That dire scenario — which would cut off water supplies to California, Arizona and Mexico — has taken center stage at the annual Colorado River conference in Las Vegas this week, where officials from seven states, water agencies, tribes and the federal government are negotiating over how to decrease usage on a scale never seen before.
Outlining their latest projections for Lake Powell and Lake Mead, the nation’s two largest reservoirs, federal water managers said there is a risk Lake Mead could reach “dead pool” levels in 2025. If that were to happen, water would no longer flow downstream from Hoover Dam.
“We are in a crisis. Both lakes could be two years away from either dead pool or so close to dead pool that the flow out of those dams is going to be a horribly small number. And it just keeps getting worse,” said Tom Buschatzke, director of the Arizona Department of Water Resources.
He said there is a real danger that if the coming year is extremely dry, “it might be too late to save the lakes.”
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2022-12-16/risk-of-dead-pool-looms-at-colorado-river-meeting
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: billryanQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: odiousgambita treat to beat your feet in the mississippi mud coming soon [er or later?]
https://www.casino.org/news/filling-lake-mead-with-mississippi-river-water-no-longer-a-pipe-dream/
link to original post
Be cheaper to build desalinization plants along the Pacific and pump that water instead. Furthermore, the brine contains valuable minerals that can be extracted and used commercially, Leave Old Man River be.
link to original post
What becomes of the salt? You can't pour it back into the ocean; salting fields is destructive. What do other countries do with the salt?
Phoenix and the metro area are about 250 miles from a saltwater source. Do you pump salt water inland and process it there or put the plant in Mexico, with all its inherent problems? Is it a good idea to entrust the future water for a hundred million people in an area controlled by criminal cartels? Building it in California makes more sense but will cost much more. If California can use desalinization to offset a third of the water they now draw from the Colorado, there would be more than enough for the other states.
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The solids from desalinization contain minerals that are commercially valuable. Want abundant lithium for EV batteries and nuclear fusion? Seawater contains an almost unlimited supply. The list can go on. If we stop thinking of brine and salt as waste and start thinking of brine and salt as resources. And, yes. the lest overs can go back into the ocean if done right. Where do we put the desalinization plants? We put them where the salt water is, then pump the fresh water where it needs to go. That's gotta be cheaper than building a pipeline 80+feet in diameter 1,000 miles over the Rockies. And I don't think the folks who depend on Old Man River for commerce will allow already scarce water to be permanently diverted away.
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Very good points. The Southwest needs to solve there own water problems, not destroy the ecosystems of other parts of the USA because they chose to live in a desert.
Quote: ChumpChangeFrom the link on page 16, Lake Mead went from 1,066 feet down to 1,040 feet between March and August in 2022 for a 26 foot drop. The March 1st level is about 1,047 feet and a 26 foot drop would put it at 1,021 feet by August 1st, 2023. Of course, the snow melt hasn't hit yet and that could raise the level, but there was no such thing in 2022. Las Vegas may last longer with a lower level because of recent improvements since 2020, but dead pool is still out there for the rest of the southwest, not to mention power loss.
I just looked at the same numbers yesterday. The pattern seems to be level peaks around March 1 then falls about 25 feet by September, after that it recovers a few feet by fall. Currently we are looking at deadpool in 2025-6 based on the graph, matching the article quoted. The warnings about water in the southwest have been there since the 1980s when we started seeing large numbers of people moving there. Well, it is here. The midwest is looking more and more the place to be the next 50 years.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe warnings about water in the southwest have been there since the 1980s when we started seeing large numbers of people moving there. Well, it is here. The midwest is looking more and more the place to be the next 50 years.
Having grown up in the midwest and having spent 30 years in the Southwest, I believe death by dehydration might be the preferable option.
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanThe warnings about water in the southwest have been there since the 1980s when we started seeing large numbers of people moving there. Well, it is here. The midwest is looking more and more the place to be the next 50 years.
Having grown up in the midwest and having spent 30 years in the Southwest, I believe death by dehydration might be the preferable option.
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The midwest is probably the best part of the USA to live the next generations. Global warming believers should be flocking there now as it would be the best place if their predictions come true. Lots of water for water-intensive industry of which I have heard chip making is one. Housing is cheaper than most places. Winters do get cold and forget the beach, though.
Quote: billryanI suppose "the rust belt" is a term of endearment. As is "flyover country", but your mileage may vary.
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It has taken a generation but the cities are finding their new ways. Near me what was once an abandoned coke plant is now one of the biggest robotics centers in the world. But few know. driving by it is just an office/industrial park. I'll take "flyover country" to the craziness that is SoCal and live for 3/4 less money and 90% less stress.
Quote: AZDuffmanWinters do get cold and forget the beach, though.
That accurately sums up why I won't live in the Midwest again.
Locals generally believe this preferable to giant mosquitoes, and find it a convenient excuse to drink excessively and huddle together for warmth (which can be kinda fun).
Beaches... not particularly crowded. Less favorable for people-watching, more favorable if you don't like throngs of tourists competing for resources and stretching queues at the ice-cream dealers.
Comme ci, comme ça.
On the nation's largest Native American reservation – spanning 16 million-acres across Arizona, New Mexico and Utah – one in three households lacks running water, according to the Navajo Nation.
At the Supreme Court on Monday, the tribe will face off with the federal government and a group of states over what it calls a "broken promise" to bolster the reservation's water supply.
The dispute involves the vital but increasingly strained Colorado River, a resource long the subject of litigation between states and carefully apportioned under a labyrinth of agreements to meet the needs of nearly 40 million Americans across the West.
The tribe argues that the 1868 treaty establishing the reservation "promised both land and water sufficient for the Navajos to return to a permanent home in their ancestral land.
The government disputes that it ever explicitly agreed to provide water and says that even if water rights were implied by the treaty, there is no enforceable obligation.
A federal district court sided with the government, denying the Navajo Nation's claim, saying it had failed to identify a "specific, applicable, trust-creating statute or regulation that the government violated."
A federal appeals court reversed, reasoning that the reservation could not exist without adequate water and therefore an obligation to supply it was implied.”
'Now, after more than a century, water has returned to the reservation. The Pima have gone from water impoverishment to water wealth, and the reservation now has rights to more water than anywhere else in Arizona, despite the region’s worst drought in 1,200 years.'
