End of the road for Lake Mead??
Rain helps Lake Mead rise — 3 inches:Quote: 100xOddsLas Vegas flooding: Multiple casinos, entire Strip, airport under water
https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/las-vegas-flooding-multiple-casinos-entire-strip-airport-under-water-amid-storm
Circa sports book flooded:
solves water drought problem?
or storm was too far from Lake Mead?
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https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/rain-helps-lake-mead-rise-3-inches-2616180/
Quote:DEATH VALLEY NATIONAL PARK, — Flash flooding at Death Valley National Park triggered by heavy rainfall on Friday buried cars, forced officials to close all roads in and out the park and stranded about 1,000 people, officials said
The park near the California-Nevada state line received at least 1.7 inches (4.3 centimeters) of rain at the Furnace Creek area, which park officials in a statement said represented “nearly an entire year’s worth of rain in one morning.” The park’s average annual rainfall is 1.9 inches (4.8 centimeters).
About 60 vehicles were buried in debris and about 500 visitors and 500 park workers were stranded, park officials said. There were no immediate reports of injuries and the California Department of Transportation estimated it would take four to six hours to open a road that would allow park visitors to leave.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/flash-floods-strand-1k-people-in-death-valley-national-park/ar-AA10maNq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=fc8a4216271e4ba28d18bab43573624f
Quote: BillHasRetiredI'm a little hazy on the storm drainage situation in LV. Do the drains (tunnels, etc) flow into Lake Mead, out into the desert, or downstream of the lake and into the Colorado?
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Everything flows back into Lake Mead.
Quote:Most of us don’t think about what happens when we flush the toilet. But the same water that swirls in the bowl, after being treated, ends up in our taps.
...the bulk of the effort starts at the corner of Hollywood Boulevard and the appropriately named Sludgemore Avenue. It’s the site of the Flamingo Water Resource Center, a Disneyland-sized facility on the eastern edge of the valley and Nevada’s largest wastewater treatment plant.
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/aug/24/how-our-water-goes-toilet-tap/
As a writer of SF novels, I do spend some time thinking of how to do this gravity-reliant process in the microgravity of space. Lots of interesting issues there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTNmSQ8Nkgo
and while the water system alone is probably not economical for most, it would seem to me that California is the one state which could produce more of its own water, at least for individual households instead of contributing to the drought.
Quote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
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I say just buy it at Costco for $2 a case.
(I guarantee it won’t be from that ditch in the backyard. Unless you got photographic evidence)
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
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I say just buy it at Costco for $2 a case.
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Best price I saw was by the pallet, 48 cases, 5 gallons per case, $550.
I think that's about $1.15/gallon, which is gonna make things like "laundry" or "showers" a bit spendy.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
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What about the part of the plan that says it will help prevent flooding in the east?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
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I’ve lived in the west for my entire 51 years, so if there are things that I have or haven’t done to help create the water problems here, then so be it. I’ll take my part in it.
I can’t, for the life of me, think of any way that my 9-year-old or 3-year-old grandkids are responsible for the water shortage, and odds are, it will affect them the longest!
It’s easy to lump groups of people together without much thought… Just sayin’.
Are you prepared for those of us in the west to move back east? We can, you know.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: AlanMendelsonFrom what I have read there is a surplus of water that flows down the Mississippi and the surplus is diverted thru other smaller rivers to the Gulf. So I'm thinking water rights is a non issue.
Here in the east we are not up for bailing the west out of water problems it created. We also know that such a plan would cause environmental damage to the Gulf of Mexico. So such a plan will be a very hard sell.
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What about the part of the plan that says it will help prevent flooding in the east?
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I seriously do not see that happening. I just see it destroying the Mississippi and other waterways.
Quote: camapl
I’ve lived in the west for my entire 51 years, so if there are things that I have or haven’t done to help create the water problems here, then so be it. I’ll take my part in it.
I can’t, for the life of me, think of any way that my 9-year-old or 3-year-old grandkids are responsible for the water shortage, and odds are, it will affect them the longest!
It’s easy to lump groups of people together without much thought… Just sayin’.
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The thing is the American southwest is not made for the scale of population it has. It is not alone, the Middle East has the same problem. People living in a desert. Really, even the high plains are not made for large settlement, but the high plains do not have said settlement.
The Great Lakes area is going to rise again as a place to live.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: camapl
I’ve lived in the west for my entire 51 years, so if there are things that I have or haven’t done to help create the water problems here, then so be it. I’ll take my part in it.
I can’t, for the life of me, think of any way that my 9-year-old or 3-year-old grandkids are responsible for the water shortage, and odds are, it will affect them the longest!
It’s easy to lump groups of people together without much thought… Just sayin’.
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The thing is the American southwest is not made for the scale of population it has. It is not alone, the Middle East has the same problem. People living in a desert. Really, even the high plains are not made for large settlement, but the high plains do not have said settlement.
The Great Lakes area is going to rise again as a place to live.
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Make those lakes great again.
You're just scraping the bottom of the barrel in Lake Mead, and there might be long-dead people inside.
You can leave now, or leave next spring, but you may not make it to 2024 out there.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf an inch of rain will only raise Lake Mead 3", how much rain do you need to raise it 150 feet? It's not coming without Noah-type weather. Will there be 40 days of rain & snow in California this winter?
You're just scraping the bottom of the barrel in Lake Mead, and there might be long-dead people inside.
You can leave now, or leave next spring, but you may not make it to 2024 out there.
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You need a good winter snow melt. Or several.
Quote: rxwineThe interesting thing about drought is parched land doesn't absorb water very fast. So, you can suddenly get flooding if you finally get a lot of rain on it.
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/18/weather/southwest-monsoon-flood-megadrought/index.html
Quote: unJon
Make those lakes great again.
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I still like when people see them for the first time and swear they are an ocean. You cannot tell the difference at a glance. We should be glad Canada exists because they have prevented wholesale destruction of them by their being international waters.
Quote: unJonQuote: ChumpChangeIf an inch of rain will only raise Lake Mead 3", how much rain do you need to raise it 150 feet? It's not coming without Noah-type weather. Will there be 40 days of rain & snow in California this winter?
You're just scraping the bottom of the barrel in Lake Mead, and there might be long-dead people inside.
You can leave now, or leave next spring, but you may not make it to 2024 out there.
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You need a good winter snow melt. Or several.
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At this point you need a generation of above average melts. Sooner or later they will come as things cycle back to a wet cycle. Could be in a year, could take 50.
People who continue to overuse their allotment can get a restrictive device installed on their water meter. $200 fine if it’s broken, and a minimum $2500 fine if it is completely removed.
Quote: GundyI take 40-minute showers.
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I think that qualifies as a "standing bath".
Kim Kardashian, Kevin Hart and Sylvester Stallone accused of drought restriction violations - Los Angeles Times
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-08-22/kim-kardashian-kevin-hart-california-drought-water-waste
Quote: rxwineSome areas of California are getting super strict on water usage.
People who continue to overuse their allotment can get a restrictive device installed on their water meter. $200 fine if it’s broken, and a minimum $2500 fine if it is completely removed.
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Nothing new about this; this happened where I lived (Marin County, CA, aka "what's on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco") during the mid-1970s drought, mainly because, at the time, it was the only county in California that depended solely on its own reservoirs without need for Sierra Nevada runoff. One high school was actually selling computer-generated calendars with each day having a water meter reading the house needed to be under in order to stay within its monthly allotment. (Of course, today, somebody would just develop a web app to do the same thing.) It got to the point where they had to build a pipeline in one of the lanes of another bridge that enters the county so "outside" water could be piped in.
Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: rxwineSome areas of California are getting super strict on water usage.
People who continue to overuse their allotment can get a restrictive device installed on their water meter. $200 fine if it’s broken, and a minimum $2500 fine if it is completely removed.
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Nothing new about this; this happened where I lived (Marin County, CA, aka "what's on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco") during the mid-1970s drought, mainly because, at the time, it was the only county in California that depended solely on its own reservoirs without need for Sierra Nevada runoff. One high school was actually selling computer-generated calendars with each day having a water meter reading the house needed to be under in order to stay within its monthly allotment. (Of course, today, somebody would just develop a web app to do the same thing.) It got to the point where they had to build a pipeline in one of the lanes of another bridge that enters the county so "outside" water could be piped in.
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I could not imagine having to live long term with a water shortage and meter restrictions. Twice in the late 80s we had them near me. Once for a flood that went over the water polls at the water company. The other for what was the largest inland oil spill in USA history. Both times we are talking just a few days. Even then it was pretty "honor system" to conserve. To have a monthly limit just would be crazy.
But, we seem to be finding CA along with the southwest is not made for the populations it has. But weirdly across the world people seem to be moving to deserts. Dubai and KSA are totally over carrying capacity of the land there.
This will take a generation to fix.
SF Bay Area: Record heat overwhelms California power grid; rolling blackouts set to begin - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrbuo97BfbE
Livermore hit hardest by power outages and extreme heat, 116 degrees - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sPURZuqxMk
Parched: California's Climate Crisis - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRD1SZ1HWJQ
How DARE nature interfere with our "fundamental rights!"
Now for water. It's a city in the desert, probably better look at the tech for the moon bases that are going up or the international space station. Building where there is not water is just a hard thing to do. Desalination could work for so-cal, but vegas in that sense would be SOL. Someone way smarter than me is gonna have to figure that one out. Though I would say drinking water / clothes / necessities would/should outrank farming (and grass, for real though, why waste water to grow grass when it's just a status thing to start with, get real people), it's easier to transport food/goods than water.
You could put solar panels on 1/4th of the homes in the southwest, but they'll run out of water first.
Nuclear power plants are located near bodies of water and rivers. If they all dry out or get flooded out, there's another source of imminent power plant failure.
The water is kind of a thing, but the water inventory is something that is closely monitored at a nuclear plant, and it actually maintains what water it has much better than other baseload options. Also, it wastes a good bit of water, but Palo Verde nuclear plant is in the phoenix area...
Again, there are people that have been working on this for half a century or more to deal with the issues you are bringing up, throwing away their work with a half hand wave is not going to work for people that are informed.
This still doesn't solve the drinking/washing/lake water issue, but my only point was that the power issue, with new nuclear, is not really an issue (well not a technical issue, just a public opinion one).
Meltdown: Three Mile Island - Netflix
Insiders recount the events, controversies and lingering effects of the accident at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant in Pennsylvania.
https://www.netflix.com/title/81198239
It's several episodes, so you'll need a lot of time & popcorn.
There's been a few other reactors that were on the absolute verge of failure in the USA because of the weather.
Radiation in my area is around 30-40 CPM instead of the single digits pre-Fukushima. Other websites claim the radiation is much higher in the USA because they use a different radiation detector. Something on the order of over 100 CPM across the country at http://www.netc.com/ . If it's over 100 CPM, that's when the hazmat teams get called in. Instead, governments around the world dismantled their radiation detectors over a decade ago and there was/is a long-term media blackout.
Station ID 5:913 Las Vegas, NV, US
CPM: current 182 Low 121 High 232
Average 146(CPM of Gamma in energy range 600-800keV)
Last updated: 2022-09-06 09:44:00 GMT-0400
Station ID 5:910 Reno, NV, US
CPM: current 266 Low 197 High 401
Average 252(CPM of Gamma in energy range 600-800keV)
Last updated: 2022-09-07 04:10:00 GMT-0400
Quote: ChumpChangeMankind cannot be responsible with nuclear power. Ukraine has been in imminent danger of a nuclear plant explosion for weeks now. Phase it out and migrate towards renewable energies.
You could put solar panels on 1/4th of the homes in the southwest, but they'll run out of water first.
Nuclear power plants are located near bodies of water and rivers. If they all dry out or get flooded out, there's another source of imminent power plant failure.
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There is always a danger in life. Nuclear plants are built with the possibility of flooding in mind. A river "drying up" if it happened would happen over decades. Same as Lake Mead falling. Plus it is a lake, not a river.
Fukushima was a series of unfortunate events starting with the tsunami. The earthquake safety measures acted flawlessly and scrammed the active reactors on site quickly. The tsunami flooded buildings and caused the on site generators to fail and cooling to cease in the reactors. They attempted to send batteries and moblie generators to the site but the tsunami had caused very poor road conditions and it took 6 hours for them to arrive.
Both accidents happened due to decay heat not being properly managed. With lessons learned from both accidents, reactors today are inherently safer.
"Renewables" like solar and wind have massive efficiency issues and scale poorly. If we really want to get away from fossil fuels the nuclear is a clear safe choice but we can't take that step forward if people are going to claim it is unsafe due to accidents that have clear causes that were not simply attributable to human error.
To moderators, if this topic needs to be dropped or moved to off topic just say the word.
https://www.freethink.com/environment/space-based-solar-power-39862?amp=1
A nation depending too much on nuclear could have that main energy source knocked out for a decade in a war. Clean-up and rebuild takes a lot longer than anything else.
That's why we still need diversified solutions, not just one size fits all.
Of course, maybe there will be no more war... ha ha.
Quote: unJonRead an article today about putting solar panels in orbit and beaming the power down via microwave.
https://www.freethink.com/environment/space-based-solar-power-39862?amp=1
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Tesla had that idea 100 years ago. SimCity had it 25 years ago. I file it under, "not in the next lifetime."
Quote: DieterThis seems to be veering off the Vegas, math, and gambling theme and heading into the controversial mire.
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Fair, can't convince someone with their mind made up anyways. What gambling theme was there, someone looking for action on when Meade goes Deadpool or something? The math seems pretty simple, assume x amount of rainfall/snowmelt per year, compare to usage, despair. Calculate cost of canal, then despair again?
Quote: ChumpChangeIn China, rivers have gone bone dry very fast and their street light poles, trees, and even bridges are catching fire from the extreme heat.
Really?
How, when the ambient temp never hits the necessary temp to ignite these materials?
For example, wood needs to hit about 600 Fahrenheit to burn.
Please explain.
