The Fees! THE FEES!!!
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I see that all the time with purchasing gasoline, but haven't seen such a brazen play yet for food.
Quote: rxwineMaybe where the tip line is, you should write "See process fee" Then leave.
The problem with that is that the waiter/waitress gets the sheety end of the stick there when they had no part in the decision to add that to the bill.
Quote: MrVI see that all the time with purchasing gasoline, but haven't seen such a brazen play yet for food.
Man, where do you buy gas? Grocery stores too?
So far, in the southeastern U.S., not happening.
Quote: rsactuaryThe problem with that is that the waiter/waitress gets the sheety end of the stick there when they had no part in the decision to add that to the bill.
Yeah, I know, but I can't think of anything better for the moment.
Quote: ThatDonGuyJust when we had gotten used to the Concession Fee comes this: there's now a $2 "processing fee" at some of the restaurants at New York New York, including America. What's worse is, the fee has the 8.375% sales tax applied to it as well!
As someone told me in another thread, don't go there.
Quote: rsactuaryThe problem with that is that the waiter/waitress gets the sheety end of the stick there when they had no part in the decision to add that to the bill.
Here's a solution: Also, Go ahead and give the waiter/waitress a cash tip on the side. : )
I would plan to not return to any restaurant that does that. If that's not an option, then:
Deducting the phony processing fee from the tip may indeed hurt the staff, but they are part of the fraud as accomplices. If they complain to management it may cause a change.
Its okay to be indignant and intolerable of fraud -and tips are not mandatory.
Quote: tuttigymMan, where do you buy gas? Grocery stores too?
Portland, Oregon.
Gas stations usually have two prices; the higher price includes passing on to the purchaser the fee the credit card people charge them when a purchase is made with a credit card.
I have not seen it elsewhere, yet.
Quote: ThatDonGuyJust when we had gotten used to the Concession Fee comes this: there's now a $2 "processing fee" at some of the restaurants at New York New York, including America. What's worse is, the fee has the 8.375% sales tax applied to it as well!
Photo from Vital Vegas
(Picture removed, no need to duplicate)
Pretty soon there will be a 5% fee on all tips, so if you tip $20, you must pay a $1 tipping fee.
Tipping will also be mandatory.
Quote: billryanI charge 3% on credit card transactions and paypal. It's upfront and about twice a year I get someone who complains.
Do you accept cash? I'm just waiting for the place that charges a transaction fee on those sorts of things, but also does not accept cash.
Quote: rsactuaryThe problem with that is that the waiter/waitress gets the sheety end of the stick there when they had no part in the decision to add that to the bill.
I would suggest that they can work somewhere else. If the good servers and the customers FINALLY would start avoiding places because of bull(censored) like this, then maybe these stupid added fees will quit happening.
Quote: MrVPortland, Oregon.
Gas stations usually have two prices; the higher price includes passoing on to the purchaser the fee the credit card people charge them when a purchase is made with a credit card.
I have not seen it elsewhere, yet.
Some truck stops in Ohio do this.
Quote: Mission146Some truck stops in Ohio do this.
This is also a common practice here in Nevada.
Quote: Mission146Do you accept cash? I'm just waiting for the place that charges a transaction fee on those sorts of things, but also does not accept cash.
For an in-person transaction, I would but I'm currently 100% internet and few people are willing to travel to my location for in-person pickup. I'm well over an hour from an interstate highway.
When I started in mail order, credit card surcharges were illegal, but now it is only a few states that don't allow it.
About 80% of my transactions are through Paypal.
The $20 tip costs about sixty cents in fees.
Does the server get the $20 or do they get $19.40?
If the business is eating .50-$1.00 per charged tip, it will add up rather quickly.
I'm fine with paying for the cost of doing business if it's really warranted, but don't like feeling like it's some sneaky trick.
Whether you do it directly or indirectly, letting the business know why you're displeased is the only way they are going to figure out what the complaint is, or why business is slowing down.
Quote: billryanI charge 3% on credit card transactions and paypal. It's upfront and about twice a year I get someone who complains.
Why not just raise prices 3% and avoid people feeling like they got robbed?
Quote: gamerfreakWhy not just raise prices 3% and avoid people feeling like they got robbed?
Same concept as Resort Fees; you can advertise a lower price.
Quote: billryanIf I have a $100 meal and leave a $20 tip, with taxes it comes to $129. If I pay by credit card, the place pays about 3% for the transaction fee.
The $20 tip costs about sixty cents in fees.
Does the server get the $20 or do they get $19.40?
If the business is eating .50-$1.00 per charged tip, it will add up rather quickly.
It depends on the restaurant. This practice is illegal in a few states, but is generally legal.
Nobody ever complains about who is REALLY responsible for this one, in my opinion. The onus should be upon credit card companies to treat tips as a separate line item and simply not charge the merchant the fee on that part of the bill, again, in my opinion.
Quote: Mission146Same concept as Resort Fees; you can advertise a lower price.
So let’s call it what it is, bait and switch.
Processing fees are overhead. Every other form of overhead is built into the cost of the product.
It’s just as ridiculous as a restaurant charging a dishwashing fee or napkin fee. Might as well charge the customer a receipt fee for the paper all the other fees are printed on too.
Quote: gamerfreakSo let’s call it what it is, bait and switch.
Processing fees are overhead. Every other form of overhead is built into the cost of the product.
It’s just as ridiculous as a restaurant charging a dishwashing fee or napkin fee. Might as well charge the customer a receipt fee for the paper all the other fees are printed on too.
It's definitely bait and switch.
People are also not great at math, generally speaking. Personally, I would like to see all prices be the final price of the item or service, which would include all applicable taxes. They do this already for gasoline, Ohio does it for liquor (or, maybe just certain stores?)...it just seems like it wouldn't be difficult to implement.
You could also have round amounts for most things, except lots of places like numbers such as, "$99.99," for marketing; they can say, "It's under a hundred bucks!", so I would expect that to probably continue...even though it would be annoying.
"Penny stores," and laundromats aside, we could almost completely get rid of coins.
Quote: gamerfreakWhy not just raise prices 3% and avoid people feeling like they got robbed?
Because the people who complain aren't worth keeping in the first place, for the most part.
I accept trades for credit and about a tenth of my sales are in trade. Why should they pay a 3% fee for something they don't use. Believe it or not, but some people still prefer to pay by money order and I take an occasional personal check if I know and like the person, as well as business checks.
A person buys 5 $1.00 items and pays with a $5 bill, it's easy to pocket the $5. When it is $4.95, the idea was the clerk would have to ring it in to get the proper change.
Quote: billryanI believe the original intent of prices ending in .99 was to force the clerks to use the cash registar to make change.
A person buys 5 $1.00 items and pays with a $5 bill, it's easy to pocket the $5. When it is $4.95, the idea was the clerk would have to ring it in to get the proper change.
That makes sense. I think it eventually became about marketing, especially in the hotel industry.
I recall reading that people are more likely to barter when numbers end in zeroes than when they end in nines.
An item priced at $19.99 will sell better than one priced at 20.17 but the 20.17 item will not sell better than a 20.99 one, as most people pay attention to dollars but not cents.
Guerilla Marketing had a whole chapter on the psychology of pricing. when I read it thirty years ago and I'm sure it has evolved greatly since then.
Quote: tuttigymMan, where do you buy gas? Grocery stores too?
So far, in the southeastern U.S., not happening.
All over the place in northern California, and I have seen a 5% surcharge for credit (20 cents/gallon on slightly more than $4/gallon cash price). It's hard to do in most places, as I think there is a law banning advertising a price and then charging more for using a credit card; I remember when gas stations would have "credit card price" on their pumps, with a note saying, "3 cents per gallon less for cash."
However, I don't think the fee at America is only for credit cards.
This reminds me of a Popeye's near me that used to charge a "service charge" of 69 cents - but would give a "rebate" of 69 cents for people who paid with cash or credit cards. (In other words, it was a 69-cent fee for using a debit card.) I assume somebody got wise to this, as it disappeared about a month later.
Quote: Mission146Some truck stops in Ohio do this.
Truck diesel prices almost everywhere in the US do the cash vs credit pricing.
Truck diesel also is commonly paid for with a payment card that is NOT MasterCard, Visa, Amex, or one of the common consumer cards, and they get the cash pricing. (These fleet fuel payment cards have a wholly different fee structure, and are not useful for much other than truck fuel, because most merchants don't have the payment processing terminals.)
If you're driving by a truck stop, the green diesel price will usually change every few seconds, along with the cash/credit indicator.
I actually wrote a letter to all of my state representatives asking them to pass a law banning this, 3 of them actually called me back. Unfortunately the drivers never cared and it went nowhere. That was the end of pizza delivery. It used to be ok money. After that the company’s switched from paying minimum wage to drivers, to declaring them tipped employees and actually cut their pay.
I notice now on the side of the Papa John’s box they put something like “any delivery fee is not given to the driver. Please reward them for awesome service.”
Quote: rxwineHere's a solution: Also, Go ahead and give the waiter/waitress a cash tip on the side. : )
except the post said to put in the tip section "see above"
Hmmm…Quote: DieterTruck diesel prices almost everywhere in the US do the cash vs credit pricing.
Truck diesel also is commonly paid for with a payment card that is NOT MasterCard, Visa, Amex, or one of the common consumer cards, and they get the cash pricing. (These fleet fuel payment cards have a wholly different fee structure, and are not useful for much other than truck fuel, because most merchants don't have the payment processing terminals.)
If you're driving by a truck stop, the green diesel price will usually change every few seconds, along with the cash/credit indicator.
That KINDA answers a question that’s been bugging me for a while.
Here in NJ, most, but not all, service stations charge more for credit card use. But the diesel price is the same whether it’s cash or charge. Dieter kinda explained why.
Except, I’m talking about regular service stations, where most of the diesel being sold is going into cars and light trucks that use diesel. Not the long-haul trucks that need to go to a truckstop to fuel up, and would have those trucker credit cards.
On that note, I wonder how many/few of the typical small gas stations that sell diesel, also accept those trucker credit cards. I’m guessing not many.
Quote: gordonm888The problem is false advertising - fraudulently advertising prices that are lower than the actual price.
When you walk into the establishment, why not ask the service desk "Do you charge a processing fee. and if so, how much is it?
Quote: gordon888Deducting the phony processing fee from the tip may indeed hurt the staff, but they are part of the fraud as accomplices. If they complain to management it may cause a change
Let's see, the business charges you a couple of bucks for a credit card charge, and you in turn, to get even with that underhanded business owner are going to give the shaft to the server? Wow what class. After a plumber does his thing to repair whatever and gives you his bill which includes his $100/hr. rate, do you then complain and adjust his rate to your standard, or maybe just grumble and shake your head while you write the check? My auto mechanic has two signs at his cash register: "We do not accept personal checks." and "3% charge for Credit Card payments." A $600 repair bill is $18 more if I pay by CC, so I gave him cash. Got half of it from my casino trip the weekend before.
Quote: gordon888Its okay to be indignant and intolerable of fraud -and tips are not mandatory.
Not sure what one has to do with the other. How is a credit card fee ("processing fee"), fraud?
tuttigym
Quote: MrVPortland, Oregon.
Gas stations usually have two prices; the higher price includes passing on to the purchaser the fee the credit card people charge them when a purchase is made with a credit card.
I have not seen it elsewhere, yet.
Many stations here in the South have two prices also especially on highly traveled interstates. But most stations don't. I frequent those that don't.
tuttigym
Quote: SandybestdogMany businesses were adding fuel surcharges
My garbage pick company added a "fuel surcharge" for months when gas prices went above $3/gallon until the gas price came down. I stopped the service and dumped it myself at county pick-up stations for free.
tuttigym
Quote: DJTeddyBearHmmm…
(...)
On that note, I wonder how many/few of the typical small gas stations that sell diesel, also accept those trucker credit cards. I’m guessing not many.
If it's got about 40 payment cards listed at the pump, you've got a chance.
You're looking for TCH*, EFS*, Comdata, Fuelman, and a few others.
I know that my local gas station can do it, inside only, not pay at the pump. They do not have the dedicated diesel lanes, just one pump off to the side with a long hose and an awkward access path for a big truck.
Unrelated, but go ahead, AMA. New thread if needs be.
*Yeah, I know they merged.
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Quote: DJTeddyBearHmmm…
That KINDA answers a question that’s been bugging me for a while.
Here in NJ, most, but not all, service stations charge more for credit card use. But the diesel price is the same whether it’s cash or charge. Dieter kinda explained why.
Except, I’m talking about regular service stations, where most of the diesel being sold is going into cars and light trucks that use diesel. Not the long-haul trucks that need to go to a truckstop to fuel up, and would have those trucker credit cards.
On that note, I wonder how many/few of the typical small gas stations that sell diesel, also accept those trucker credit cards. I’m guessing not many.
Because there's monthly fees involved. It also depends on the station's distributor, etc.
The large fleets such as BNSF, Union Pacific, UPS and others also use a card called WEX which is a fleet card for fuel and DEF/oil lube only. Fees on the holders part and little amounts charged to the station's end of it.
But volume is necessary and the name of the game.
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Quote: ThatDonGuyJust when we had gotten used to the Concession Fee comes this: there's now a $2 "processing fee" at some of the restaurants at New York New York, including America. What's worse is, the fee has the 8.375% sales tax applied to it as well!
Photo from Vital Vegas
Here, this is more up to date and condensed with the varying types if fees that can and cannot be added.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-surcharges-convenience-fees
I also prefer an American Express over all otherr cards, more consumer card holder pro active than others for sure!
Marcus Clark
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Quote: billryanIf I have a $100 meal and leave a $20 tip, with taxes it comes to $129. If I pay by credit card, the place pays about 3% for the transaction fee.
The $20 tip costs about sixty cents in fees.
Does the server get the $20 or do they get $19.40?
If the business is eating .50-$1.00 per charged tip, it will add up rather quickly.
I am not aware of any Las Vegas properties that charge credit card fees to employees for tips. Every place that I know the server gets the reported tip amount.
Quote: tuttigymWhen you walk into the establishment, why not ask the service desk "Do you charge a processing fee. and if so, how much is it?
Let's see, the business charges you a couple of bucks for a credit card charge, and you in turn, to get even with that underhanded business owner are going to give the shaft to the server? Wow what class. After a plumber does his thing to repair whatever and gives you his bill which includes his $100/hr. rate, do you then complain and adjust his rate to your standard, or maybe just grumble and shake your head while you write the check? My auto mechanic has two signs at his cash register: "We do not accept personal checks." and "3% charge for Credit Card payments." A $600 repair bill is $18 more if I pay by CC, so I gave him cash. Got half of it from my casino trip the weekend before.
Not sure what one has to do with the other. How is a credit card fee ("processing fee"), fraud?
tuttigym
I was addressing a restaurant scenario where every menu item has a listed price. Of course, every human on earth pays for a restaurant meal with a credit card (or equivalent) and not with wadded up bills drawn from inside their underwear, so I expect credit card fees to be built into the listed charges. But if there is a credit card fee or an uncorkage fee, I am fine with that as long as it is stated on the menu or on a sign on your table. But its objectionable to simply put "process fee" on a bill after listing your charges for every food item in great detail. No one has even established that, in the case of the OP, the process fee was for credit cards (the so called process fee was $2.00 on a $27 meal, and was taxed.)
On the other hand I usually pay a plumber (or any other tradesman) with a check or cash - if I did offer to pay with a credit card I would expect to be told that there was a 3% fee before he processed the charge . So, your attempt to switch topics to "paying a plumber" so as to make me look ridiculous has no merit.
And tuttigym, I do not appreciate the snippy, insulting nature of your post. We are having a discussion - please raise the level of your game.
You know nothing about me and this discussion is not about which of us has more class than the other. But I can assure you that I am proud of who I am and how I conduct myself, and given that it took you no time on this forum to get suspended for trolling, I am not about to take lessons on 'class' from you.Quote: tuttigymWow what class.
Quote: DRichI am not aware of any Las Vegas properties that charge credit card fees to employees for tips. Every place that I know the server gets the reported tip amount.
Those fees add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and millions in high-end places. Why should the owner pay for his customers tipping his employees?
In a high-end place, tips can run into hundreds of dollars per table per sitting. That just gets passed along to everyone who eats there.
In general to credit card fees, I have found it can help to ask if there is a cash discount. Had up to 10% off.
Quote: gordonm888I was addressing a restaurant scenario where every menu item has a listed price. Of course, every human on earth pays for a restaurant meal with a credit card (or equivalent) and not with wadded up bills drawn from inside their underwear, so I expect credit card fees to be built into the listed charges. But if there is a credit card fee or an uncorkage fee, I am fine with that as long as it is stated on the menu or on a sign on your table. But its objectionable to simply put "process fee" on a bill after listing your charges for every food item in great detail. No one has even established that, in the case of the OP, the process fee was for credit cards (the so called process fee was $2.00 on a $27 meal, and was taxed.)
On the other hand I usually pay a plumber (or any other tradesman) with a check or cash - if I did offer to pay with a credit card I would expect to be told that there was a 3% fee before he processed the charge . So, your attempt to switch topics to "paying a plumber" so as to make me look ridiculous has no merit.
And tuttigym, I do not appreciate the snippy, insulting nature of your post. We are having a discussion - please raise the level of your game.
You know nothing about me and this discussion is not about which of us has more class than the other. But I can assure you that I am proud of who I am and how I conduct myself, and given that it took you no time on this forum to get suspended for trolling, I am not about to take lessons on 'class' from you.
I usually pay with cash at restaurants, but the bills aren't particularly wadded and come from my wallet.
Quote: billryanThose fees add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and millions in high-end places. Why should the owner pay for his customers tipping his employees?
In a high-end place, tips can run into hundreds of dollars per table per sitting. That just gets passed along to everyone who eats there.
I don't disagree with you but I don't know any restaurants in Vegas that do charge them back. I have a good friend that works at one of the big high end steak houses and he said he gets the whole tip. His tickets are about $100 per seat.
The original Scores in NY got in trouble for withholding part of their employees' tips and their claim was that it was to pay the credit card fees. The whole thing was plea-bargained away as part of a much bigger deal so it never went to court.
I'd been doing some eBay selling but the fees finally got to me. The advertised 10%+3% turns in 16-18% in final billings. One of my competitors charges 8% so now I let him do all the work and my final fees were slashed in half. It works for him because the increased volume gets him better rates across the board.
Quote: gordon888So, your attempt to switch topics to "paying a plumber" so as to make me look ridiculous has no merit.
Just making a comparison of labor income, i.e., server15% of tab vs whatever the artisan contractor wishes to charge and the customer is willing to shell out for that service. The disparity gap is quite large as well as the insult gap. Your post did not mince your intent to "get even" with the business by "shafting" (my words) the server so that the server will do your bidding to have the business delete future "processing fees."
Quote: gordon888And tuttigym, I do not appreciate the snippy, insulting nature of your post. We are having a discussion - please raise the level of your game.
"Snippy" is a good word and that shows the touch of class that is gently appropriate. Others on this forum have been dramatically more harsh.
Quote: gordon888You know nothing about me and this discussion is not about which of us has more class than the other. But I can assure you that I am proud of who I am and how I conduct myself, and given that it took you no time on this forum to get suspended for trolling, I am not about to take lessons on 'class' from you.
I repeated your posted words (quote) and made a comment of a general nature concerning a possible act of retaliation against an innocent party (the server). If one were to actually put into action the "stiffing" (my words) of the server, that would a classless occurrence, in my view.
Your self-esteem is noted and accepted without any caveats.
For the record, my first suspension was "political" speech, and the second was lifted two days early when Mr. W figured out there was no "insult" or "trolling."
tuttigym
For example here where I described how Resorts World is charging $105. for 4 mediocre, small portion items delivered to the room via their On The Fly GrubHub app, it makes it easier to justify tipping the GrubHub delivery agent less than what you might had everything been on point and less add-on fees.
