4.7% Concession Fee at Paris Beer Park
First I have heard of this charge and I agree this is just another reason to not visit this place. I'm not a fan of Budweiser buying up Craft Breweries to start with and then using their muscle to gain shelf space and push small breweries out of stores. Most of the beers sold here are owned by Inbev/Bud and much better choices are available even on the strip. I honestly didn't notice the fee when I visited last month, but I'm guilty of not looking close.
The story says Hexx also charges it, so it will probably spread when they see they can get away with it.
Quote: Bozhttp://vitalvegas.com/beware-the-deceptive-cnf-charge-at-beer-park-hexx-kitchen-at-paris-las-vegas/
First I have heard of this charge and I agree this is just another reason to not visit this place. I'm not a fan of Budweiser buying up Craft Breweries to start with and then using their muscle to gain shelf space and push small breweries out of stores. Most of the beers sold here are owned by Inbev/Bud and much better choices are available even on the strip. I honestly didn't notice the fee when I visited last month, but I'm guilty of not looking close.
The story says Hexx also charges it, so it will probably spread when they see they can get away with it.
Thanks for the post. I hate such business practices. I wonder how many customers decrease the fee from the tip... even though of course the server has nothing to do with it.....
If this happened to me, I would refuse to pay the 4.7%. My reasoning would be that the business can't assume that I would read all their fineprint. Thus, they have an obligation to mention it to me when I order. If they disagree, I would invite them to call the cops.
If they take me up on my offer, where do I go from there? Could I wait for them to file the complaint, then identify myself to the cops only and tell the bar "see you in court"?
Refuse to pay? Call the cops?
It's not worth that kind of effort, and it IS posted.
A better option is to simply ask to see the manager. Argue about it. Perhaps loudly. Then after wasting the manager's time, grumbly pay it.
INAL either. Best not to make a fuss if you're out with friends or family trying to have a good time. BUT, if you are by yourself ( and someone is local that could make your bail ), you could jump up and down and have a hissy fit. Demand loudly to speak to the manager, show your bill to the adjacent table and ask them if they know there's a hidden 'Mob' tax for the bosses on their bill. By this time people will have their cell phones out and be filming ;-) Get creative, try NOT to get arrested.....you could be the next you-tube gone viral...;-)Quote: DJTeddyBearINAL...
Refuse to pay? Call the cops?
It's not worth that kind of effort, and it IS posted.
A better option is to simply ask to see the manager. Argue about it. Perhaps loudly. Then after wasting the manager's time, grumbly pay it.
(And I checked the online menus - the menu for Hexx as well as Beer Park mentions the 4.7% charge (in the same place, too - right after the disclaimer), but none of the others appear to.)
Quote: ThatDonGuyAny theories as to why it's just the Beer Park and Hexx?
(And I checked the online menus - the menu for Hexx as well as Beer Park mentions the 4.7% charge (in the same place, too - right after the disclaimer), but none of the others appear to.)
The Sugar Factory used to charge the hidden fee before it became Hexx. It's not a new thing.
Quote: AyecarumbaThe Sugar Factory used to charge the hidden fee before it became Hexx. It's not a new thing.
I checked the online menus for the four Sugar Factory restaurants that apparently still exist.
New York and Orlando don't list any extra fees.
Chicago lists a credit card surcharge "not greater than our cost of acceptance," and a 20% service charge (read: enforced tip) for parties of 5 or more.
The Miami menu says, "All menu items are subject to a 20% service charge" - on the back of the menu, where the only other thing on the page is the logo; however, I found a Yelp review that says that this is more or less standard operating practice in Miami.
And why 4.7%? Why not a round 5%?
Maybe 4.7% is the tax they pay the hotels? Even then... It's Vegas... Just charge more.
P.S. I have half a mind to eat there and then sue to get my 4.7% back, hoping to win and set a precedent.
Quote: ahiromuWhat's even the purpose? Do they think they will get less flack for misleading advertising than increasing prices a little bit? It just seems absurd to have this practice instead of increasing all your prices by 5%.
Maybe 4.7% is the tax they pay the hotels? Even then... It's Vegas... Just charge more.
I saw this on the tab the last (and I mean the last) time we ate there (was still Sugar Shack) and they claimed it's a pass-thru concession fee from Paris for them to occupy the space.
Me, I call that rent, and figure it into the overhead of my business, wherever it's located. Given their pricing (semi-expensive), I thought then and still do that it's pure crap.
Quote: beachbumbabsI saw this on the tab the last (and I mean the last) time we ate there (was still Sugar Shack) and they claimed it's a pass-thru concession fee from Paris for them to occupy the space.
Are you referring to the WoV spring fling we had there? I would have raised a stink if I noticed it.
You're absolutely right. Rent is a cost of doing business. Just pass it on in your prices, like everybody else.
p.s. Already wrote to my attorney to see if he is interested in going down in flames with me again in a principle-based lawsuit.
I love the legal challenge, but it just seems to be so futile. I would compare it to forced tips on large groups, which is fine as long as it's disclosed (from my little bit of googling). Please keep us apprised.
Quote: WizardAre you referring to the WoV spring fling we had there? I would have raised a stink if I noticed it.
You're absolutely right. Rent is a cost of doing business. Just pass it on in your prices, like everybody else.
p.s. Already wrote to my attorney to see if he is interested in going down in flames with me again in a principle-based lawsuit.
Dinner that night was me, SOOPOO, Ahigh, and Brad from that VegasCard thing. It was awful; the place was under construction, changing to Hexx, the food was just B-A-D after it had been so good, and then there was this.....charge. That I had not seen on previous visits there, FWIW, and I'm a bill-checker, though it's possible I missed it before.
Quote: ahiromuI love the legal challenge, but it just seems to be so futile. I would compare it to forced tips on large groups, which is fine as long as it's disclosed (from my little bit of googling). Please keep us apprised.
My lawyer has shown interest already and is looking for a hook to hang our hat on. Surely if there is a "disclose" law there should be something stating the disclosure must be reasonable. If there were no standards, the restaurant could use a font so small you would need a microscope to read it, like the micro-printing on US currency.
Quote: Wizard
p.s. Already wrote to my attorney to see if he is interested in going down in flames with me again in a principle-based lawsuit.
I really respect what the two of you did in the last lawsuit. If you are going to fight another battle please make it against resort fees. Once the government cleaned up the airlines and required the coupling of fees, I was sure someone would follow that up and do the same with the hotels.
Quote: DRichI really respect what the two of you did in the last lawsuit. If you are going to fight another battle please make it against resort fees. Once the government cleaned up the airlines and required the coupling of fees, I was sure someone would follow that up and do the same with the hotels.
Thank you. I hate resort fees too, passionately. My lawyer and I had many Emails and conversations about a strategy but couldn't find any good legal argument to frame our case on. In every case I looked at, I thought the resort fee was disclosed fairly early in the booking process. I'm still open to any situation where a hotel will let you book a room at one price, but surprises you with the resort fee when you check in.
Quote: WizardThank you. I hate resort fees too, passionately. My lawyer and I had many Emails and conversations about a strategy but couldn't find any good legal argument to frame our case on. In every case I looked at, I thought the resort fee was disclosed fairly early in the booking process. I'm still open to any situation where a hotel will let you book a room at one price, but surprises you with the resort fee when you check in.
How did the airline fees case get off the ground? Maybe a similar strategy can be used against resort and concessionaire fees. I think of it as racketeering. What option do consumer's have to opt out? If you want to stay or eat, the operators have conspired together to gouge your wallet.
Quote: WizardMy lawyer has shown interest already and is looking for a hook to hang our hat on. Surely if there is a "disclose" law there should be something stating the disclosure must be reasonable. If there were no standards, the restaurant could use a font so small you would need a microscope to read it, like the micro-printing on US currency.
Disclose law? Hmmmm...
Should any requirement for disclosure also apply to the service charge for large parties? I.E. Is the fine print on the menu good enough for that? If so, why? Is it merely because that's an "established thing" that people know about and expect? If so, when does something like that (or this BS concession fee) become typical so that disclosure is unnecessary?
For that matter, is sales tax expected, or does it have disclosure requirements?
OK. Let's focus on sales tax a moment.
Here in NJ and probably most (all?) states, businesses are required to post their state issued Certificate of Authority to collect sales tax, somewhere conspicuous, usually near the door or cashier. Most restaurants post it right next to their Health Department inspection certificate - which, depending on the inspection result, many restaurants would rather NOT disclose...
That said, there should be a similar notice in an equally convenient and conspicuous location, in a type size at least as big as the smaller of these two certificates, for the BS charges.
Quote: AyecarumbaHow did the airline fees case get off the ground? Maybe a similar strategy can be used against resort and concessionaire fees. I think of it as racketeering. What option do consumer's have to opt out? If you want to stay or eat, the operators have conspired together to gouge your wallet.
The airlines are regulated by the federal government, which is more strongly regulated. Nevada is a libertarian-leaning and majority one-industry state. What it comes down is the hotels and casinos pretty much do as they please.
Quote: DJTeddyBearDisclose law? Hmmmm...
That's a fair point, that other "add-on" fees had to start somewhere. In that case of sales tax, they never asked to have to collect that. I'm personally okay with the piggyback method that it gets charged. As for those automatic tips for large parties, it is my understanding the customer is not required to pay it. If he says he got lousy service and wishes to only pay 10%, I think any restaurant will oblige, and perhaps have to.
FYI, a Bill doing just that was introduced in the US Senate last month.Quote: DRichIf you are going to fight another battle please make it against resort fees. Once the government cleaned up the airlines and required the coupling of fees, I was sure someone would follow that up and do the same with the hotels.
I figured this should merit its own thread here.
Quote: beachbumbabsDinner that night was me, SOOPOO, Ahigh, and Brad from that VegasCard thing. It was awful; the place was under construction, changing to Hexx, the food was just B-A-D after it had been so good, and then there was this.....charge. That I had not seen on previous visits there, FWIW, and I'm a bill-checker, though it's possible I missed it before.
There was an earlier meetup at Sugar House as well; maybe back in 2013 or 2014? It was the Wizard's birthday and I don't think you were there, BBB.
I don't recall the charge that time, but our group was pretty big (probably 15 or 20 people) and I just threw in a bunch of cash; didn't look too closely at the receipt.
I did eat there by myself later in my trip (I was staying at Paris) and paid with rewards credits and I am also a bill checker. I think I would have noticed it that time.
Personally I find it hard to be too outraged. Stuff is expensive in Vegas. Stuff on the Strip is outlandishly expensive. I understand the deceptive business angle, and think it would be more honest to just raise their prices. But whatever, not going to get out the pitchforks. More important things in life, etc.
They list rates to book a room then somehow when you pay it shows after the fact that an additional 80 plus dollars is due in cash at the hotel
Go get 'em, Wiz!Quote: WizardUpdate: My attorney found some case law and says I have a good argument in court.
Lol! "Your honor, a 4.7% Concession Fee is lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!"Quote: boymimboGeez, Wizard, who is your lawyer, Jackie Chiles?
Quote: Nevada Statutes
NRS 598.0915 “Deceptive trade practice” defined. A person engages in a “deceptive trade practice” if, in the course of his or her business or occupation, he or she:
...
13. Makes false or misleading statements of fact concerning the price of goods or services for sale or lease, or the reasons for, existence of or amounts of price reductions.
...
15. Knowingly makes any other false representation in a transaction.
NRS 598.0971 deals with the penalties and procedures in dealing with those who have deceptive trade practices.
I would think that the establishment would have to advertise the fact that they have these fees in fairly large print on their menus.
Planet Hollywood has an establishment that does the same thing. The Cabo Wabo shows it in small print on their menu. Whether the font is large enough to be counter to deceptive trade is unknown.
The 4.7% fee is also printed in small print on the menu for Beer Park in the section called "sides" (beerpark.com/menu).
To get to the point, when I asked/complained about the concession fee the manager took it off the bill with little argument.
I'd still like to fight this, but am not sure how.
Quote: WizardTeddyS and I had dinner and drinks at the Beer Park yesterday. Other than the dreaded 4.7% franchise fee, it was a nice place. Perfect view of strip and bellagio fountains. Young cute waitresses in tight fitting t-shirts (like at any Hooters).
To get to the point, when I asked/complained about the concession fee the manager took it off the bill with little argument.
I'd still like to fight this, but am not sure how.
Nice, way to fight the man!
Unfortunately, hard to file suit if they took the charge off :p
Quote: AcesAndEightsNice, way to fight the man!
Unfortunately, hard to file suit if they took the charge off :p
Thanks. There still may be ways. I'm supposed to meet with my attorney next week to talk about it.
Here are some pictures from the occasion. Click on any of them for a larger version.
Here is the menu, along with a ruler I took along. Note the paragraph in the bottom right.
Here is a close up of the lower right paragraph. The blurriness is not the fault of my camera or hands. It really is that blurry. You can ask TeddyS.
Here is the receipt before complaining.
And after.
Quote: WizardThanks. There still may be ways. I'm supposed to meet with my attorney next week to talk about it.
Here are some pictures from the occasion. Click on any of them for a larger version.
Here is the menu, along with a ruler I took along. Note the paragraph in the bottom right.
Here is a close up of the lower right paragraph. The blurriness is not the fault of my camera or hands. It really is that blurry. You can ask TeddyS.
Here is the receipt before complaining.
And after.
FWIW, the image of the "before" receipt, when clicked on, links to the menu and ruler, not to a receipt picture.
