New Game Protection

Hi to all. I am a newbie. I need your thoughts.

I read that it is now virtually impossible to patent a new card game. I have also read in places that it can be possible.

I have created a new game that is not simply a rewriting of play on an existing game (eg all the poker variants). This is a new game that does not currently exist. I have been through every card game on wizard of odds and I have done my own internet research (personally not good with that).

This is a very simple game for new players and casino dealers. I believe the math holds up as well. I will get the wizard himself t run the numbers for me if I can proceed.

my real question is

If a patent cannot be obtained, then how can a creator achieve licencing the game to casino?

i appreciate all thoughts, opinions and info

A lot of the state of the industry can be summed up in the title of one thread:

“Clone” of Galaxy's All/Tall/Small Bonus Craps bet.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/36549-clone-of-galaxys-all-tall-small-bonus-craps-bet/

In short, Galaxy Gaming, one of the game distribution powerhouses, came up with a side bet for craps. Light & Wonder, an even bigger game distributor, came up with their own version. The only difference was the name.

No lawsuit. Two big companies with lots of cash to throw at lawyers, didn't sue each other.

What chance do you have, even if you DO get that patent?

FYI: L&W used to be called Scientific Gaming, which used to be called SHFL, which used to be called ShuffleMaster.

Sorry to be a buzzkill.

If one group is simply going to copy the other, then how are they eventually going to survive.

Why would the casino itself not just copy the idea and implement it?

Why pay anything to the creator?

The casino isn’t going to go through the process of coming up with a game and getting the gaming commission to approve it so they can put it in one or two tables.Galaxy is literally just copying every game scientific gaming has come up with. They change one minuscule thing and the name, like Louisiana Stud. If I was SG I’d be pissed. It kind of shows how useless a patent is.

So if I have a new game (not a minor alterations of rule of anther game eg poker).

Will casino pay a licence fee for it? Assuming of course that the new game is seen as an appealing new game to casino if I hold no patent. I can trade mark game name and copyright certain aspects?

Will one of the big game developers just simply copy it with a minor change?

Would the casino then deal with the big operators or do I stand a good chance of my game conitinuing?

The thing is I have been creating about 6 games which are new over the last few years. I have a contact in the casinos in Australia. I am at the stage of now just needing the math certified before presenting to the casino. My contact has been very receptive of the general description of the game without me disclosing enough details to give them the actual game itself. Contact also knows I have a number of new unique games which again they are wanting to know more.

I have to polish up a couple but I have a very good one ready to go which I have reached ot to Rich Newman (awaiting a response) to help me with what protection options I have. If I cannot get a patent, there must be some other way to protect my creations.

I may be able to bring in a partner from within the industry if I can find a way to protect it. It is too much work to proceed if there is no protection,

There will be no new games until there are adequate methods of protection, I would preferr not to get into law suits but would definitely sue if it was copied by another operator,

Have you considered working for/partnering with one of the bigger companies? Seems like you’d be giving up some money IF you could get the game into a casino, but gaining a larger likelihood of ACTUALLY achieving placements?

Far fewer headaches as well. If you already have 6 games cooking, that are possibly viable, you might pique the interest of Galaxy or the like.

Good luck whichever way you want to attack it.

I do own stock in Galaxy, by the way!

A casino *may* pay a license fee. But that’s only after it proves to be a good game. And then, you’re talking about under $100 per table per month. This is NOT a way to make money. Just recoup *some* of the expenses.

As a thank you to the casino that gives you your first shot and field trial, you may need to offer the game for free indefinitely to that casino. Of course, part of that deal is that they provide reports showing the numbers for that game.

Yes, one of the big distributors may copy it. But only once it’s been proven to be a good game.

Having an inside partner or contact will improve your odds.

I would worry more about getting a sale than protection at this point, but I totally understand where you are coming from. I think you are on the right track with getting a trademark (even though names can be changed), so you have something tangible that is relatively affordable. Focus on the sale, in my experience operators rarely ask or care about if its patented. Get the GLI done, a trademark is great, and worry about getting some placements. While the big guys copy each other they do it because games get hundreds of installs, if you have substantially less than that it is probably a non-issue. One good example of a game that is quietly getting a lot of installs is Double Up Blackjack, hasn't been copied yet to my knowledge. That may change at some point, but they can still get a good return on it before it does.

I would be happy to partner with one of the big groups. I will have to partner with someone at some point. Fortunately I do have an industry contact who may partner me. I know that trying to do it alone is not a good option.

Are you aware of how aligning with Galaxy would look like?

I think DJTeddyBear has documented his endeavors with Galaxy somewhere in this forum, he would be a good person to talk to.

Galaxy huh? Some years ago I had a contract with them for my Poker For Roulette game.

I wrote a tell-all about my experiences. Mind you almost all the staff there has changed since then so things might be different, but here’s my story.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/35477-my-experiences-with-galaxy-gaming/

Thanks DJ

That's an interesting and disheartening read. I feel for you.

I'm going to have to have a good long think about my steps forward from here.

I am likely to get a chance to present my game directly to one casino. At this stage, just getting it onto the floor anywhere seems by best option.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

FYI: L&W used to be called Scientific Gaming, which used to be called SHFL, which used to be called ShuffleMaster.
link to original post

So that's what happened to shufflemaster.
thought shfl was just to shorten things.
why the name changes? buy out from a bigger company?

For a new table game involving cards, the casino wants to license the game from a "game provider" who will provide the 'tabletop felt' with its game-specific pattern and an automated shuffler that is programmed for the new game being offered. If the game inventor is receiving a royalty payment it is usually provided by the 'game provider" corporation out of the fee they receive from the casino.

If you come up with the concept and math for a new game named "6 card Wahoo!" you don't present it directly to the casino because they don't have the tabletop felt and automated shuffler foe putting it on the floor.

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: DJTeddyBear

FYI: L&W used to be called Scientific Gaming, which used to be called SHFL, which used to be called ShuffleMaster.
link to original post

So that's what happened to shufflemaster.
thought shfl was just to shorten things.
why the name changes? buy out from a bigger company?
link to original post

Reorganization, conglomeration, rebranding... As I understand, "Shufflemaster" was table games stuff, "SHFL" was machines (and some tables), and then "Scientific Gaming" became the umbrella for table games and machine games. Light and Wonder (L&W) was the rebrand for marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if new executive leadership decides to invigorate brand performance with another exciting brand reimagination in 6 or 7 years.

"Bally" slot machines also fell under the umbrella.