Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: mickeycrimmNo offense against B9 but he was vehemently demanding an answer from babs over the use of a so called Chinese slur. I'm sorry, but if you are vehemently demanding an answer from someone then you are trolling them. "All the nonsense" is not coming from the moderators.
From what I could tell, he was responding to others engaging him. A warning came, and it appears he heeded it. He was then suspended. He had every right to find the explanation he received regarding his allegation as unsatisfactory, in my opinion. And since he had already received his answer, I do not see how could be waiting for it. Admittedly, his argument had no basis since you cannot insult a non-forum member. He was obviously not happy; there is nothing to indicate his later comments were made to elicit comments rather than defend his viewpoint. Who is anyone to say his original intent wasn't to make a comment or two about the unfairness he perceived and to try and elicit a determination? Maybe that's trolling, I don't know. After that, people poke him and gets argumentative. When his argument is no longer compelling, and it appears he will continue arguing it until it becomes irrational, Mission warns. That's what I saw.
Quote: Mission146
302 Pages
About lots of suspensions, casual comments, too, and rules. Don't make it sound worse than it is.
Quote:I'm going to bring it up with the Wizard, but I may be Locking this baby up in the next few days and starting a NEW Discussion About the Suspension List thread. I can see where this gives a poor appearance to the site. We may have a new thread for it every month.
To what end? A new thread will only grow to rival this one, or passes it. A new one every month (assuming it gets done every month), will bring up monthly comparisons, crossposting from the older thread, opening new threads to complain about not being allowed to crosspost, having arguments rudely interrupted by the end of the month, etc.
Why not simply not feature this thread in Recent Threads?
Quote: mickeycrimmI'm sorry, but if you are vehemently demanding an answer from someone then you are trolling them.
No offense to you, but demanding an answer from a mod is not trolling, even when done vehemently. Especially when the replies, if any, are evasive, dismissive, muddled, passive-aggressive or unclear.
Mods are, or at any rate should be, held to a higher standard. This includes being answerable to the members in matters regarding the board and their actions in it. Of course, within limits. Mod A should not have to respond for something inappropriate that Mod B did or said, for instance. And if an honest answer is given, that should end it (and more demands then can be trolling). Also for a certainty, no mod should ever fail to respond to a reasonable query by a member.
Disclaimer: I've no idea what B9 was yakking about.
Quote: NareedNo offense to you, but demanding an answer from a mod is not trolling, even when done vehemently. Especially when the replies, if any, are evasive, dismissive, muddled, passive-aggressive or unclear.
Yes it is when it's over some stupid trumped up argument about the use of a supposed racial slur that he took completely out of context. It was very clear to me that he was flaming on babs. No smoke screen about "evasive, dismissive, muddled, passive-aggressive or unclear" can cover that up.
Quote: mickeycrimmYes it is when it's over some stupid trumped up argument about the use of a supposed racial slur that he took completely out of context.
As I said, I've no idea what the recent drama was about.
My objection was to the blanket condemnation of any demand for answers as trolling.
I'm on the side of anyone who has previously stated that the rules need to be looser. Ban, not suspend, anyone who goes really over the line repeatedly.
I believe that there should be few.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote: mickeycrimmYes it is when it's over some stupid trumped up argument about the use of a supposed racial slur that he took completely out of context. It was very clear to me that he was flaming on babs. No smoke screen about "evasive, dismissive, muddled, passive-aggressive or unclear" can cover that up.
What's very bizarre is I am 1/2 Chinese and I am not offended yet B9 I believe has no Chinese blood in him and becomes overly offended and takes it to the limit.
Quote: steeldcoI had some time to kill today and I thought that I would take a look at this thread.......
Isn't that a cruel way to kill time? :)
Quote: NareedIsn't that a cruel way to kill time? :)
Indeed. Yes indeed, but probably makes sense since I've killed off most of my brain cells....in my younger years.
Quote: steeldcoI had some time to kill today and I thought that I would take a look at this thread....
I'd hate to hear the time killing activities you rejected in favor of this
Quote: steeldcoI'm on the side of anyone who has previously stated that the rules need to be looser. Ban, not suspend, anyone who goes really over the line repeatedly.
1. Do away with bans.
2. Put out general expectations in rules format
3. Use that post counter thing.
Everyone starts with certain number of limited posts. (however the thing works). If the Wizard see some behavior or post he doesn't like he dials down your post count.
NEVER SAYS A WORD TO YOU. No hassle.
If he thinks you're contributing to the forum he dials it up.
Actual trolly people will hate this. It will never work for them in the long run. (notice gambling reference, heh)
Of course he could delegate it to his mods. If your post count reaches Zero you're toast.
EDIT to add -- well you could still have bans for obvious reasons for the worst and spammers, but mostly not use it like it has been.
Quote: michael99000Do you feel the new era is unfair or unjust in any way?
I think that the mods do a great job here, given the volume of posts they need to sift through. This forum is basically nonstop action with a variety of topics being discussed and a variety of personality types to handle. The two in green I'm most familiar with, Babs and mission, always give a thorough explanation for their administrative actions and Babs in particular always gives the forum member the benefit of the doubt whenever there's any gray area or room for interpretation. That's all you can really ask from them.
unfair??? not at all
Just give us a heads up
the post you quote is that simple communication beforehand would have gone a long way
communication after....I dontcare about.....I accept the judgement for banning....no one needs to explain after....if everyone knows the strictness of the rules beforehand
it seems you are arguing a non exisitant issue
Quote: Mission146It doesn't matter that people are or are not insulted, per se, the main aspects that matter are the appearances of the quality of the Forum to those looking to join as well as the continued enjoyment of the Forum for valuable Members. If you were to go to a Forum, and even if the Personal Insults aren't too heavy, all you see is people sniping back and forth and trading insulting barbs with one another, then your impression of the Forum is going to be that it is just a place that permits unchecked immaturity and where the Members do not behave with decorum.
.
Mission, that post sounds level headed and the term "valuable members" brought a smile to my face.
Yes people will wring their hands feigning angst when one person leaves. The one who just left on this thread, or the one that left a few days ago because she didnt feel welcome.
i have been a member for a few years but just regularly posted over maybe 9 months or so. I think on my first day starting to post regularly....I got into it with Evenbob and was rightfully suspended. And have read his posts since and have come to respect his comments.He was recently congratualted in a thread for soon reaching 15,000 posts. I think he might be a valuable member?
However on another thread someone above me and him, responded to his comments......if you dont like it dont let the exit door.....
Now if Evenbob is not a member in good standing, then my observation is blown to shreds. However Like I said I only go back 9 months or so....and I dont know who the valuable members you speak of are.
Cavalierly inviting someone to go away (by someone other than yourself)....does not jive with the concern that others show when someone leaves. The easy dismissal of a member with that phrase goes against your "valuable member" philosophy.
I believe you when you say that you get no joy from banning. And no one ever accused you of going on a banning spree based on mood....for which I am greatfull. but that dosent mean every one else shares your constraint.
So if the people who post on this board seem dysfyunctional to management.......please look at the mixed signals we are looking at.
Quote: LarryS
So if the people who post on this board seem dysfyunctional to management.......please look at the mixed signals we are looking at.
Indeed. For example, B9 was suspended for trolling but somehow you've avoided that fate. Perhaps a nice clear signal from management to you is in order...
Quote: rdw4potusIndeed. For example, B9 was suspended for trolling but somehow you've avoided that fate...
The art of delivering a cold blooded jab without resorting to a personal insult... A necessary skill in navigating the WOV rules.
Quote: LarrySunfair??? not at all
Just give us a heads up
the post you quote is that simple communication beforehand would have gone a long way
communication after....I dontcare about.....I accept the judgement for banning....no one needs to explain after....if everyone knows the strictness of the rules beforehand
it seems you are arguing a non exisitant issue
There was a 24 page thread debating a stricter personal insult rule followed by an 11 page thread about the announcement of the rule change. Seems like an adequate heads up to me.
Quote: LarryS
i have been a member for a few years but just regularly posted over maybe 9 months or so. I think on my first day starting to post regularly....I got into it with Evenbob and was rightfully suspended. And have read his posts since and have come to respect his comments.He was recently congratualted in a thread for soon reaching 15,000 posts. I think he might be a valuable member?
However on another thread someone above me and him, responded to his comments......if you dont like it dont let the exit door.....
Now if Evenbob is not a member in good standing, then my observation is blown to shreds. However Like I said I only go back 9 months or so....and I dont know who the valuable members you speak of are.
EvenBob is certainly a valuable Member, but your question is difficult for me to answer without context, could you possibly link me to the post(s) in question?
Here is the Cliff notes version;
EB: These new rules suck.
Wiz: Don't let the door hit you in butt as you exit.
Quote: RaleighCrapsMission,
Here is the Cliff notes version;
EB: These new rules suck.
Wiz: Don't let the door hit you in butt as you exit.
LOL. Interestingly, only one of those quotes is actually shortened in the Cliff Notes version:-)
Quote: RaleighCrapsMission,
Here is the Cliff notes version;
EB: These new rules suck.
Wiz: Don't let the door hit you in butt as you exit.
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not because someone was kind enough to provide me a link to the post, EvenBob declared, "This new Forum sucks."
There's a difference between saying that a Rule sucks, or saying, "I preferred the Forum the way it was before because..." rather than outright stating that the place sucks. Quite frankly, I would say that EvenBob got in response what he was offering in commentary, a blanket statement for a blanket statement.
It's kind of like someone at the hotel with a problem with the room, if they approach me about it in any except the most rude way, then I will address the problem and often offer a small amount off of the room. If someone is down here screaming at me, using profanity, or declaring that the hotel is a pile of llama excrement, then I'll reverse the charges, print out the receipt with the reversed charges and tell them not to let the door hit them in the derriere on the way out and that they are not welcome back to the property.
That's basically it, if something sucks, then one should not want to do whatever it is anyway, unless one has no other choice. EvenBob has a choice other than to post here, so if he honestly believes the Forum sucks, then Wizard was offering him excellent and sound advice.
Quote: Mission146If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not because someone was kind enough to provide me a link to the post, EvenBob declared, "This new Forum sucks."
There's a difference between saying that a Rule sucks, or saying, "I preferred the Forum the way it was before because..." rather than outright stating that the place sucks. Quite frankly, I would say that EvenBob got in response what he was offering in commentary, a blanket statement for a blanket statement.
It's kind of like someone at the hotel with a problem with the room, if they approach me about it in any except the most rude way, then I will address the problem and often offer a small amount off of the room. If someone is down here screaming at me, using profanity, or declaring that the hotel is a pile of llama excrement, then I'll reverse the charges, print out the receipt with the reversed charges and tell them not to let the door hit them in the derriere on the way out and that they are not welcome back to the property.
That's basically it, if something sucks, then one should not want to do whatever it is anyway, unless one has no other choice. EvenBob has a choice other than to post here, so if he honestly believes the Forum sucks, then Wizard was offering him excellent and sound advice.
I totally agree. No one is dragged to this forum kicking and screaming. If you're here, you're here because you clicked on it.
Quote: RaleighCrapsMission,
Here is the Cliff notes version;
EB: These new rules suck.
Wiz: Don't let the door hit you in butt as you exit.
Check Evenbob's first post in this thread about 4 years ago. (it's on first page or second)
Always amusing.
Wow. pasted here for anyone's interest:Quote: rxwineCheck Evenbob's first post in this thread about 4 years ago. (it's on first page or second)
Always amusing.
Quote: EvenBob, December 25th, 2010 at 7:52:19 PMMy question is, why are you doing all this work? If I had a successful forum like this, I'd rule it like a dictator. I'd ban people I didn't like without even telling them, I'd just cancel their accounts. If they don't like it, so what. This isn't a democracy, its a privately owned entity. Like I've said before, I've been on forums since '92 and its not worth the grief to give every jerk an even break. Life it too short, who cares if they don't like it. Go someplace else and be a jerk, you're GONE from here.. I've seen decent forums ruined by the trolls and the owner pulling his hair out. Always remember, its fun to be the King, you can make people disappear. Poof!
Quote: endermikeWow. pasted here for anyone's interest:
Quote: EvenBob, December 25th, 2010 at 7:52:19 PM
My question is, why are you doing all this work? If I had a successful forum like this, I'd rule it like a dictator. I'd ban people I didn't like without even telling them, I'd just cancel their accounts. If they don't like it, so what. This isn't a democracy, its a privately owned entity. Like I've said before, I've been on forums since '92 and its not worth the grief to give every jerk an even break. Life it too short, who cares if they don't like it. Go someplace else and be a jerk, you're GONE from here.. I've seen decent forums ruined by the trolls and the owner pulling his hair out. Always remember, its fun to be the King, you can make people disappear. Poof!
That's freakin' hysterical.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: EvenBob, December 25th, 2010 at 7:52:19 PM
That's freakin' hysterical.
If you find this funny please go back and read a few thousand of Bob's posts before the most recent presidential election. Where he guaranteed an easy Romney win.......
And somewhere in there, Bob admitted he actually voted for Obama in 2008.
Quote: SOOPOOIf you find this funny please go back and read a few thousand of Bob's posts before the most recent presidential election. Where he guaranteed an easy Romney win.......
And somewhere in there, Bob admitted he actually voted for Obama in 2008.
I think the official title would be "contrarian"?
Speaking of EB, I see he is at post 14,999. He must be saving up to make number 15,000 a great post.
Quote: rdw4potusIndeed. For example, B9 was suspended for trolling but somehow you've avoided that fate. Perhaps a nice clear signal from management to you is in order...
Well if people could be simply dispatched for "trolling" just because they annoyed me......you would certainly be gone.
But that is not what "trolling" is all about. However it does seem to be in the eye of the beholder. Is "trolling" being engaged in a conversation back and forth that goes on and on? Or is it when others ignore you but you keep posting ...post after post on the same topic?
There is a thread on "OBAMACARE"....270 pages. Are all those people currently posting... "trolls". Have you deemed that thread too long for your taste?. Well this board doesnt revolve around YOUR taste. I leave it to the rules enforced by those other than yourself/
Is trolling when a MOD tells a person to cease...and the person doesnt?.....I can see that definition. Is there a warning first involved before deeming someone "a troll"? I dont know. It might have been covered elsewhere...forgive me if I am asking a duplicate question
OTHERWISE it seems a lib MOD might have less of a tolerance in estimating "troll status" for a conservative poster.//or vise versa....maybe not even intentionally
Quote: RogerKintRDW is probably the last person, on these forums, I would choose to have a problem with lol.
Thank you. But...haaaaaave you met Doc? :-)
I find it amazing to observe American posters who almost always without fail will at some point bring politics or a persons political affiliations into a discussion when they are trying to make a point.
I guess people cannot just be people, they have to be either a Democrat, Republican or Independent......those choices they may whenever they make them seems to decide the fait of their entire lives thereafter......
Very strange indeed.
Quote: RogerKintRDW is probably the last person, on these forums, I would choose to have a problem with lol.
do you actually laugh out loud over things that you yourself type? You are indeed a great audience for yourself.
and my comment was not unprovoked....toward you or toward that other guy or gal you referenced. rotf getting my clothes dirty.
Quote: LarrySdo you actually laugh out loud over things that you yourself type? You are indeed a great audience for yourself.
and my comment was not unprovoked....toward you or toward that other guy or gal you referenced. rotf getting my clothes dirty.
Lol. There's no come back for that. You win.
If I somehow offended you, please accept my sincere apologies.
Quote: rdw4potusThank you. But...haaaaaave you met Doc? :-)
Apparently we were in the same building recently but I didn't get to meet him. I take it that I should be on my best behavior when I do, like no unnecessary "lol"s.
Quote: RaleighCrapsThanks for clarifying EB's statement. I was too lazy to look it up, and I didn't get it quite right.
Speaking of EB, I see he is at post 14,999. He must be saving up to make number 15,000 a great post.
Alright alright let's not go turning this thread into an EvenBob bashing fest...
Quote: endermikeWow. pasted here for anyone's interest:
Perhaps Bob's advice should have been taken that Christmas Day three years ago. Maybe the forum would have improved. Maybe there would not be a need for the hall of shame or endless discussions about the suspension list. We probably wouldn't need three moderators and however many secret ones.
Without those distractions we could focus on the really important things. No silly, not gambling on a gambling forum. The really important things like complaining about what a lousy country we live in, about whether God exists and watching the pizza man deliver to naked women.
Quote: RaleighCrapsSpeaking of EB, I see he is at post 14,999. He must be saving up to make number 15,000 a great post.
Perhaps he'll finally begin to make the case for polygamous bestiality. See here: http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/595/0/#post10003
Understand, I'm not complaining about it. It is an enjoyable diversion that I can watch or ignore as I please. But sometimes the contradiction gets a bit thick.
No one asked, but my opinion is that the suspension list should not be up for discussion. To have done so was a mistake. Suspensions should be discussed in private.
Quote: rdw4potusIndeed. For example, B9 was suspended for trolling but somehow you've avoided that fate. Perhaps a nice clear signal from management to you is in order...
Well played, sir.
Quote: RaleighCrapsSpeaking of EB, I see he is at post 14,999. He must be saving up to make number 15,000 a great post.
Yeah, I had noticed that too. Or maybe his whole career on this site was one giant troll, and he's off to start up a new persona on a new gambling site tomorrow, where he'll rack up 14,999 posts and then repeat the cycle...
Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but here's a statement that could sum it up quite nicely: The "2 cents worth" of each individual may be reduced to the extent that the total commentary of all is no longer worth 2 cents.
Quote: rob45Is there any particular reason a large number of individuals are attempting to "take a shot" at EvenBob?
Attempting?
No, no particular reason.
Quote: SonuvabishRecognition of Evenbob's value eludes me. Will someone explain?
If quantity*quality=total value, Evenbob:WOV as Walmart:Retail.
I'm not sure what value your talking about. As I see it quality trumps quantity.Quote: SonuvabishRecognition of Evenbob's value eludes me. Will someone explain?
Some people try every trick in the book to stay within the rules yet they post trollish, ceremonious, downer comments and controversial threads just to create animosity on the forum for their own entertainment.
From what I got out of the Wizards.... If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the a** comment. It sounded as if some people are only tolerated since they stay within the rules. But no one member is any more valuable then any others, especially if they don't like the way he runs things. Sound like hes not going to kiss someones a** just because they have a large number of posts. NEW visitors seem to be what keeps the site going. Soap operas may keep some posters around, but at what cost? It sounds like the Wizard is embarrassed at some of the topics and arguments that occur on his site. I just get the feeling if the Wizard had it his way, in a perfect world, only math, gambling and casino topics would be discussed on this site. Obviously that will never happen, but he can only dream.
I'm confused; perhaps you can help.Quote: NareedAttempting?Quote: rob45Is there any particular reason a large number of individuals are attempting to "take a shot" at EvenBob?
Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but here's a statement that could sum it up quite nicely: The "2 cents worth" of each individual may be reduced to the extent that the total commentary of all is no longer worth 2 cents.
No, no particular reason.
Is your response to be considered trolling, or is it to be considered as a $.00001 contribution to the discussion?
Quote: AxelWolfI'm not sure what value your talking about. As I see it quality trumps quantity.
Some people try every trick in the book to stay within the rules yet they post trollish, ceremonious, downer comments and controversial threads just to create animosity on the forum for their own entertainment.
From what I got out of the Wizards.... If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the a** comment. It sounded as if some people are only tolerated since they stay within the rules. But no one member is any more valuable then any others, especially if they don't like the way he runs things. Sound like hes not going to kiss someones a** just because they have a large number of posts. NEW visitors seem to be what keeps the site going. Soap operas may keep some posters around, but at what cost? It sounds like the Wizard is embarrassed at some of the topics and arguments that occur on his site. I just get the feeling if the Wizard had it his way, in a perfect world, only math, gambling and casino topics would be discussed on this site. Obviously that will never happen, but he can only dream.
I find the conversation and discussion over on the DT really good as of late, you all should check it out.
