Discussion about the Suspension List
Regardless of any history between EvenBob and yourself, there have been five active members show interest in this.Quote: RogerKintDon't post the other account yet. This is the most exciting thing to happen to EvenBob all week.
Is there any particular reason you wish to dismiss the interests of the other four members?
Superrick has been Suspended for Seven Days for Personal Insult, Second Offense:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/dice-setting/17556-dice-control-with-a-mechanical-throwing-device/2/#post344792
I flagged Teliot, for B9's earlier post, because he gave an observation of the offending post I agreed with. Looks like Teliot account is still intact, but I have no idea if it that might have been confusing to any mod if there was not really a multiple account offense.
8-)Quote: rxwineI flagged Teliot, for B9's earlier post, because he gave an observation of the offending post I agreed with. Looks like Teliot account is still intact.
Quote: rxwineHave to post.
I flagged Teliot, for B9's earlier post, because he gave an observation of the offending post I agreed with. Looks like Teliot account is still intact, but I have no idea if it that might have been confusing to any mod if there was not really a multiple account offense.
No worries there. Eliot and Mike know each other. The fallout IRL would be pretty epic if B9 and teliot were the same person.
Time tells all.Quote: RonCIt could all be a set up...????
Beethoven9th remains suspended for trolling.
Quote: beachbumbabs
Beethoven9th remains suspended for trolling.
For how long, this is only his 2nd offense.
How many accounts do I show as having? :) I often sign on from places where I'm sure that other members also sign on from. Because of VPN you probably have me teleporting around the country too!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceReally? You guys use IP matching?
How many accounts do I show as having? :) I often sign on from places where I'm sure that other members also sign on from. Because of VPN you probably have me teleporting around the country too!
People have occasionally asked why I need to have an IP match to ban for suspected multiple accounts, and there's the reason why, sometimes an IP Match isn't even enough! Basically, an IP match is generally enough to cause one to suspect the possibility of multiple accounts (still need other evidence) or is enough to seal the deal if there is already other evidence.
In this case, the evidence would point to the IP Match being coincidental.
The Forum stores (up to) two IP's for each Member. The two IP's are the most recent IP with which the Forum was accessed and the IP with which a Member joined the Forum. In this case, Beethoven's Joined IP matched another Member's joined (and only) IP, which is insufficient to reach the conclusion of multiple accounts.
In this case, it appears the Nuclear Option remains on the grounds of Trolling, pursuant to BeachBumBabs' ban.
Quote: Mission146
In this case, it appears the Nuclear Option remains on the grounds of Trolling, pursuant to BeachBumBabs' ban.
His 2nd offense and its a nuke? Trolling?
Where are the posts that were so bad
he had to be nuked? B9 was a major
asset here, he was very smart. How
does a long time member get nuked
on a 2nd offense on unspecified trolling?
This makes no sense.
+10,000Quote: EvenBobHis 2nd offense and its a nuke? Trolling?
Where are the posts that were so bad
he had to be nuked? B9 was a major
asset here, he was very smart. How
does a long time member get nuked
on a 2nd offense on unspecified trolling?
This makes no sense.
Quote: EvenBobHis 2nd offense and its a nuke? Trolling?
Where are the posts that were so bad
he had to be nuked? B9 was a major
asset here, he was very smart. How
does a long time member get nuked
on a 2nd offense on unspecified trolling?
This makes no sense.
I don't make the news, I just report it, just saying that the Suspension list was updated (by BeachBumBabs) to reflect our belief that he did not have Multiple Accounts, but I notice the ban length is unchanged.
Without stating whether or not I agree with Beethoven9th being Nuked, I will say that when we signed on the newest Administrators, (Face and BeachBumBabs) I specifically stated to Wizard my desire that they be equal to me in Administrative capacity, thus, I am not superior to either Face or BeachBumBabs and could not overturn a Suspension length in my sole capacity, even if I were so inclined. I reiterate that I am making no comment as to whether or not I would be inclined to do so, even if I had said capacity.
Therefore, at this point, there are only two Administrators who can modify the length of that Suspension and those two Administrators are Wizard and BeachBumBabs.
I will conclude by stating that, no matter what BeachBumBabs or Wizard decide to do, I support the decision 100%. Wizard has the authority to overturn and/or reduce Suspensions issued by any other Administrator, and BeachBumBabs acts with no less autonomy than I do.
Quote: EvenBobHis 2nd offense and its a nuke? Trolling?
Where are the posts that were so bad
he had to be nuked? B9 was a major
asset here, he was very smart. How
does a long time member get nuked
on a 2nd offense on unspecified trolling?
This makes no sense.
I'm a long term member. Smart I don't know about, but I don't agree with you at all.
However, if I have an issue with a mod, I take it to the Wizard; I don't splash it all over the the board. I don't know if that's smart, but that's what I think one should do.
Quote: rob45Regardless of any history between EvenBob and yourself, there have been five active members show interest in this.
Is there any particular reason you wish to dismiss the interests of the other four members?
No reason, sir. I sincerely apologize.
Could it not be a hack where someone logs in as B9 figuring out his password? Maybe the existing member figured out B9's password?
I've never seen such a stink over a suspension on this site before, and surely, if were an administrator, i'd be irked.
As Eric Cartman said,
Nevertheless... I am urging the moderators not to permanently nuke him. A temporary suspension is appropriate, but being permanently nuked seems excessive considering his valuable contributions to this forum. Not every conservative is as fun & smart as he is.
(Hopefully, if the shoe were on the other foot, Beethoven would stand up for my free speech. Right, Beethoven?)
Quote: renoOn many occasions, I was appalled by Beethoven's political posts; I probably disagree with about 80% of what he has to say. He was often needlessly combative and too stubborn for his own good.
Nevertheless... I am urging the moderators not to permanently nuke him. A temporary suspension is appropriate, but being permanently nuked seems excessive considering his valuable contributions to this forum. Not every conservative is as fun & smart as he is.
(Hopefully, if the shoe were on the other foot, Beethoven would stand up for my free speech. Right, Beethoven?)
+1
Quote: EvenBobHis 2nd offense and its a nuke? Trolling?
Where are the posts that were so bad
he had to be nuked? B9 was a major
asset here, he was very smart. How
does a long time member get nuked
on a 2nd offense on unspecified trolling?
This makes no sense.
+1
It makes me think really long and hard about the content I post here, to the point I ask myself why bother. This is one of my favorite forums, where I read every morning and read the contents like in spreading a fresh flower or a baccarat scoreboard.
Quote: renoOn many occasions, I was appalled by Beethoven's political posts; I probably disagree with about 80% of what he has to say. He was often needlessly combative and too stubborn for his own good.
Nevertheless... I am urging the moderators not to permanently nuke him. A temporary suspension is appropriate, but being permanently nuked seems excessive considering his valuable contributions to this forum. Not every conservative is as fun & smart as he is.
(Hopefully, if the shoe were on the other foot, Beethoven would stand up for my free speech. Right, Beethoven?)
I don't know I kind of agree with the nuke not because of the severity of what he did but because of when he went about it. He gets banned for 3 days and the first thing he starts doing is skirting the line again and starting major trouble with his trolling post calling out a mod. I mean say he got a 7 day ban for it what reason is there to believe he won't then go off the rail again and subsequently get a nuking.
I mean the simple fact is B9 has been very lucky to not have banned before since he has skirted the rules on probably close to half his post and probably actually overstepped on a number and wasn't actually called on this is just it finally catching up to it.
Quote: Twirdman
I don't know I kind of agree with the nuke not because of the severity of what he did but because of when he went about it. He gets banned for 3 days and the first thing he starts doing is skirting the line again and starting major trouble with his trolling post calling out a mod. I mean say he got a 7 day ban for it what reason is there to believe he won't then go off the rail again and subsequently get a nuking.
I mean the simple fact is B9 has been very lucky to not have banned before since he has skirted the rules on probably close to half his post and probably actually overstepped on a number and wasn't actually called on this is just it finally catching up to it.
Possibly so, but I still want to know this multiple account argument. Without it, I'm not sure if it's worth a nuke. But I have seen more trolling-like behavior by him in since the rule changes than i can recall before. And considering the new "tougher" rules, it can't go uncalled on forever like you suggest.
Quote: tringlomanePossibly so, but I still want to know this multiple account argument. Without it, I'm not sure if it's worth a nuke. But I have seen more trolling-like behavior by him in since the rule changes than i can recall before. And considering the new "tougher" rules, it can't go uncalled on forever like you suggest.
They mentioned the multiple account thing was a mistake and you might be right that a nuke was going to far, though I'll leave that to the mods to decide, but I really have to say it was just a matter of time before he would be nuked anyways. He seemed to go completely off the rail with the 3 day ban and would probably have done the same after a 7 day ban.
What exactly does "off the rail" mean? Is that a subjective comment?Quote: TwirdmanThey mentioned the multiple account thing was a mistake and you might be right that a nuke was going to far, though I'll leave that to the mods to decide, but I really have to say it was just a matter of time before he would be nuked anyways. He seemed to go completely off the rail with the 3 day ban and would probably have done the same after a 7 day ban.
As another member has already alluded, the "trolling" has remained unspecified.
Some individuals yell, "Trolling!", while other individuals yell, "This is an individual defending his viewpoints."
Quote: Mission146DJTeddyBear if you do not include Administrators,
What about secret admins?
Quote: boymimboI've never seen such a stink over a suspension on this site before, and surely, if I were an administrator, i'd be irked.
What I've been smelling in this whole affair is some good old fashioned male chauvinism....and not just by B9.
B9 was gong a little overboard, of course, but perhaps another suspension and a stern warning to drop the issue would have been a better start to fixing the issue. He at least deserved the benefit of a couple steps up the Martingale before being sent packing.
There are a few others who have pushed buttons in much the same way B9 did and have not been punished nearly as severely. Some have even done it arguing with the mods.
Interesting.
Quote: TwirdmanThey mentioned the multiple account thing was a mistake and you might be right that a nuke was going to far, though I'll leave that to the mods to decide, but I really have to say it was just a matter of time before he would be nuked anyways. He seemed to go completely off the rail with the 3 day ban and would probably have done the same after a 7 day ban.
If this is a standard now, there should be some other bombs dropping.
It could just be that with a stern warning to drop the issue and a 7 day suspension, he would have been fine.
Quote: Mission146I don't make the news, I just report it, just saying that the Suspension list was updated (by BeachBumBabs) to reflect our belief that he did not have Multiple Accounts, but I notice the ban length is unchanged.
Without stating whether or not I agree with Beethoven9th being Nuked, I will say that when we signed on the newest Administrators, (Face and BeachBumBabs) I specifically stated to Wizard my desire that they be equal to me in Administrative capacity, thus, I am not superior to either Face or BeachBumBabs and could not overturn a Suspension length in my sole capacity, even if I were so inclined. I reiterate that I am making no comment as to whether or not I would be inclined to do so, even if I had said capacity.
Therefore, at this point, there are only two Administrators who can modify the length of that Suspension and those two Administrators are Wizard and BeachBumBabs.
I will conclude by stating that, no matter what BeachBumBabs or Wizard decide to do, I support the decision 100%. Wizard has the authority to overturn and/or reduce Suspensions issued by any other Administrator, and BeachBumBabs acts with no less autonomy than I do.
Yes, you support the decision in keeping with the company line but in my heart of hearts I know that there is no way that you, Face or maybe even the Wizard agree with it. The tone of your post says it all. In my opinion had one of you handled this, a longtime member with over 5,000 posts would not have been summarily and capriciously kicked off this forum. He may not have been suspended at all.
Your intentions were good in giving all the moderators equal powers but I think it was a serious mistake not to have a head moderator. This is a perfect example of why. For something as serious and permanent as this there should at least be a quorum to discuss it. Please rethink this. As you say, there are only two people who can modify this suspension but, again, there's that company line which means that there is really only one.
The job of moderator is to moderate. To me that means guiding members in the right direction, pointing to their mistakes and giving clear and concise guidelines as to what is expected. Inevitably there will be discipline, hopefully meted out in a fair and unbiased manner. Kicking someone off the forum for petty reasons doesn't seem fair to me.
Quote: TwirdmanI don't know I kind of agree with the nuke not because of the severity of what he did but because of when he went about it.
+1
Quote: Nareed+1
I would expect no less from you.
You've done similar things, and I probably have also, by taking things too far...yet we are still here.
You even have "support"...whatever that means.
There is more than a little hypocrisy here.
Quote: renoOn many occasions, I was appalled by Beethoven's political posts; I probably disagree with about 80% of what he has to say. He was often needlessly combative and too stubborn for his own good.
Nevertheless... I am urging the moderators not to permanently nuke him. A temporary suspension is appropriate, but being permanently nuked seems excessive considering his valuable contributions to this forum. Not every conservative is as fun & smart as he is.
(Hopefully, if the shoe were on the other foot, Beethoven would stand up for my free speech. Right, Beethoven?)
+100
Like him or not, B9 is a stand up guy and the multiple accounts never passed the taste test. We'll miss his valuable contributions
Quote: rxwineI probably disagree with 95% of what Duffman says in the politics section but can't imagine having him nuked. Perhaps he is not as exciting, but okay by me.
Exciting people are like exciting times.
BTW: Thanks, I guess :-)
In the end no ones life is affected that they cant move on and I feel more confident than ever if I am ever suspended I deserved it and will know exactly why I was.
Quote: BozI too like B9 and usually agreed with him, but like all of us, he is a guest here. And his refusing to let this issue go showed in my opinion an unhealthy addiction in the past 2 days. He spent far too much time on the issue and refused to let it go and anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away. I believe the point of a 3 day suspension is to allow the poster to calm down and think about how they can do something different in the future. In his case, I see him coming back more loaded for bear after 7 days if that was the decision and a nuke right after it. They just eliminated a step.
In the end no ones life is affected that they cant move on and I feel more confident than ever if I am ever suspended I deserved it and will know exactly why I was.
They eliminated a step which was an extraordinary leap--from 3 days to nuke. All those other folks who have gone on to be nuked, except for JJ and the multiple posters got a lot more rope to hang themselves with.
What some of you are saying is akin to "he stole something one time; might as well string him up now"...
Quote: RonCThey eliminated a step which was an extraordinary leap--from 3 days to nuke. All those other folks who have gone on to be nuked, except for JJ and the multiple posters got a lot more rope to hang themselves with.
That may be, though I think if we let him back and gave him that rope, he would indeed hang himself with it.
Moderators probably shouldn't moderate until after they have had their morning coffee, but once a moderator makes a decision I don't think there should be these endless debates. Moderators do not have to be exact clones of each other.
I do think that a poster who is severely punished should have some secret email address to which he can send a confession or act of contrition or something for a period of one week. Then the moderator might take pity on someone who truly confesses that he did indeed post while drunk or did indeed misinterpret something and was therefore unjustly more angry than he should have been.
We give drunk drivers a second chance, we should probably give drunk posters a second chance but on a very short leash.
Quote: NareedWhat about secret admins?
He's not, I could be wrong, but I don't believe there are any anymore. I'd have to ask Wizard to be sure, though.
Quote: Mission146He's not, I could be wrong, but I don't believe there are any anymore. I'd have to ask Wizard to be sure, though.
I think the point is that he was one. So he only half-counts as a "normal" member. But Paco is only a bit behind in post count and has a clean record, so the difference is minor even if DJ is excluded.
Quote: 1BBThe tone of your post says it all. In my opinion had one of you handled this, a longtime member with over 5,000 posts would not have been summarily and capriciously kicked off this forum. He may not have been suspended at all.
I cannot speak for Face, but I can say that I agree with the Suspension for Trolling for not letting certain issues drop and I would also have been (possibly) inclined to issue a Suspension over-and-above that called for by the Martingale System pursuant to the two Suspensions being so close to one another chronologically.
Quote:Your intentions were good in giving all the moderators equal powers but I think it was a serious mistake not to have a head moderator. This is a perfect example of why. For something as serious and permanent as this there should at least be a quorum to discuss it. Please rethink this. As you say, there are only two people who can modify this suspension but, again, there's that company line which means that there is really only one.
I will say that it is being discussed privately right now, and I have given my input as to the matter. I really can't say much more than that pursuant to the PM Confidentiality Rule.
Quote:The job of moderator is to moderate. To me that means guiding members in the right direction, pointing to their mistakes and giving clear and concise guidelines as to what is expected. Inevitably there will be discipline, hopefully meted out in a fair and unbiased manner. Kicking someone off the forum for petty reasons doesn't seem fair to me.
It really depends on the situation. Newer Members are generally going to receive more of that gentle guidance, with exception to things that are blatant, simply because they might not be familiar with the nuances of how the Rules are enforced. When you have someone who is recently banned that comes back and begins Trolling all over again, then that person is not going to get much leniency. I hit Superrick with Seven Days for Personal Insult yesterday, he's been here long enough to know better than to post what he did.
Maybe he is allowed to come back and earns a nuke. That may happen. Maybe he isn't allowed to come back and the board's discourse on issues will be lessened. It was not intended this way, I am sure, but one side of the banter has been silenced--and that makes some on the other side happy. Typical--nuke the guys on the other side and leave us alone; we'll be happy. They don't really want two sides; they want it all their way.
Again, I don't think the mods had any of that in mind at all. I just think they pushed the "red" button when the "yellow" one would have sufficed.
This is a thread discussing the suspension list. This is where his disagreement with the suspension belonged. He pushed it too far perhaps; that isn't "trolling" any more than many other conversations around here--the beloved Wikipedia says:
"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion"
We allow some inflammatory stuff and we have people that regularly provoke emotional responses. If you judge by the exact definition, there are a few others who should have the plug pulled on them. Thing is--I won't cheer if that happens like some are cheering for this banning. I value discourse and disagreement; i don't want to be part of a board full of people were everyone is a perfect gentleman or woman or whatever and no one disagrees, veers off topic for a bit, or evokes an emotional response.
I hope that this is soon deemed a mistake and that this is not the direction this board is taking.
