Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: Beethoven9thHmm...I thought I was done in this thread, but considering that I was suspended for "slurs", I think I need to point out...
Now we've got a mod using racial slurs. How's that for irony?
B9 - Babs didn't 'use' a racial slur, she referenced one from a previous post of EvenBob's which was a reference to one from the Anabelle thread. And you know it.
You keep saying your done with this topic, time to move on, suspension didn't mean anything, but your actions/posts say the opposite. It appears to me as if you are making a large effort to undeservably discredit Babs, create unnecessary drama, and be the one who 'get's the last word' in so you can feel you won the arguement. All of these are distasteful qualities and beneath you. Build a bridge and get over it!
Quote: zippyboyHow is "Chinaman" any more offensive than Irishman or Englishman? Some people can perceive offense in anything, I guess.
How is Black more offensive than White?
OK, so let me get this straight. If the N-word was used instead, would you really be using that same argument to defend its use (or re-use, rather) by stating that it was merely "referenced"? If so, that's OK. Just say Yes.Quote: MidwestAPB9 - Babs didn't 'use' a racial slur, she referenced one from a previous post of EvenBob's which was a reference to one from the Anabelle thread. And you know it.
Absolutely false.Quote: MidwestAPYou keep saying your done with this topic
Where did I "keep saying" that? I only implied it once, and it was in response to RonC. Then I stopped replying in this thread. That is, until a racial slur was subsequently used by someone who accused me of using "slurs".
Perhaps it appears that way to you because you haven't read the entire exchange or any of the other threads in question.Quote: MidwestAPIt appears to me as if you...create unnecessary drama, and be the one who 'get's the last word' in so you can feel you won the arguement.
Fair enough, that's your opinion.Quote: MidwestAPAll of these are distasteful qualities and beneath you.
OTOH, I think it's distasteful to cherry pick a few posts from an entire conversation and then comment on those alone.
But back to my first question...if someone typed the N-word, and someone else subsequently (and needlessly) typed it again, would you really be using the argument you just put forth a second ago?
For example, which would be the better response in these two scenarios?
John Doe: Hey, did you see that (N-word)?
MidwestAP: Yeah, I saw that (N-word).
OR
John Doe: Hey, did you see that (N-word)?
MidwestAP: Yeah, I saw that African-American man.
I'm pretty sure you would choose the latter, and that was my entire point from the get-go, my friend. Sorry you missed it.
Quote: zippyboyHow is "Chinaman" any more offensive than Irishman or Englishman? Some people can perceive offense in anything, I guess.
Did you read my post? I cited 4 sources.
(For the record, I'm not offended by the N-word, K-word, P-word, or C-word, but it's just ironic to hear it uttered after _I_ was accused of making "slurs" myself)
Please read the previous posts in the thread. I already addressed this point.Quote: endermikeB9, slur has multiple meanings. As you have pointed out it can mean a racial or ethnic epithet (as well as epithet against other groups). It can also mean insult. That was the context in which was leveled against you.
So did Sonuvabish:
Quote: SonuvabishAt the very least, slur implies something stronger than an insult, colloquially. The accusations of slurs is a slur against you, by the broad dictionary definition. This term is not being applied to every case of insults, but instead is being applied selectively to certain insults to give them a different flavor, which is likely to damage your reputation.
Quote: Beethoven9thOK, so let me get this straight. If the N-word was used instead, would you really be using that same argument to defend its use (or re-use, rather) by stating that it was merely "referenced"? If so, that's OK. Just say Yes.
When used to cite a specific reference, especially in the context of a discussion on suspendable actions, Yes.
Quote: Beethoven9thAbsolutely false.
Where did I "keep saying" that? I only implied it once, and it was in response to RonC. Then I stopped replying in this thread. That is, until a racial slur was subsequently used by someone who accused me of using "slurs".
Fair enough, I stand corrected. I was hopeful though that you were done by your response to Ron C and when you stated
Quote: Beethoven9thNot to beat a dead horse and needlessly prolong this discussion ....
..I guess those concerns won't be addressed at the moment, but maybe that's all for the better since this finally seems to be dying down now.
Quote: Beethoven9thPerhaps it appears that way to you because you haven't read the entire exchange, or any of the prior threads in which I was accused of making "slurs".
Yes I have
Quote: Beethoven9thOTOH, I think it's distasteful to cherry pick a few posts from an entire conversation and then comment on those alone.
OK
Quote: Beethoven9thBut back to my first question...if someone typed the N-word, and someone else subsequently (and needlessly) typed it again, would you really be using the argument you just put forth a second ago?
Already addressed this.
Quote: Beethoven9thSorry you missed it.
I don't think I missed anything other than what I acknowledged above.
This forum isn't a democracy, we all know that. I believe all the moderators do a good job. When you play with fire, you'll occasionally get burned, even if you feel it wasn't justified.
Listen, I'm really not trying to blast you, I just think it's better for the forum as a whole if this is put behind us and everyone moves on. I don't know the purpose of continuing to drag this out.
Quote: beachbumbabsIt started there, but it had escalated way past "fun" by the time it reached the post he got suspended for. There were several borderline insulting things ...
We've had the discussion just recently, and I thought members were in general agreement, that the forum could improve by making new members more welcome. Epic fail by the members, not by Anabelle. And, since the word itself is part of the discussion, shameful behavior.
That is precisely correct.
It was a new poster so we should have been extra courteous and above all, extra careful in our posts.
The problem starts perhaps with those "borderline insulting things". So many posters are trying to skate just shy of the line. Don't.
Stay well clear of the line. This is not a forum for bickering about proper terminology of insults. We all have Drunk Dialed or Drunk Posted and regretted it. The cure is to not do it in the first place.
Now can we all please end this incessant chatter and get back to whether or not I should hit against an Ace?
Quote: MidwestAPYou keep saying your done with this topic, time to move on, suspension didn't mean anything, but your actions/posts say the opposite. It appears to me as if you are making a large effort to undeservably discredit Babs, create unnecessary drama, and be the one who 'get's the last word' in so you can feel you won the arguement. All of these are distasteful qualities and beneath you. Build a bridge and get over it!
+1
Quote: AZDuffmanHow is Black more offensive than White?
It's not. I'm white...he's black. So what? I've been called "white boy" by black guys before, and they probably meant it as a slur, putting me down, but I just laugh it off. That's the worst you can call me?...white boy!? It's about context and tone.
Yes, I read the examples of how Chinaman is derogatory, and I restate that some folks find offense in anything.
Let's bring back the excitement of HB being afraid to have people at the weigh-in for fear of a physical altercation...
Now that was entertaining!
There's only one problem. The racial slur which I highlighted was NOT uttered "in the context of a discussion on suspendable actions". So your argument doesn't fly, my friend. One can easily reference the N-word without actually typing it out. (As I just did right now)Quote: MidwestAPWhen used to cite a specific reference, especially in the context of a discussion on suspendable actions, Yes.
Tell me, where is there "a discussion of suspendable actions" here? Sounds like you're just trying to rationalize the use of "Ch---man". (It was voluntarily written below when "Asian man" could have easily been substituted in its place)
Quote: beachbumbabs...and reading with no context increasingly accusatory and offensive things, not about the Chinaman, but about her.
I don't recall an answer to this either, and it is similar to the above use of the racial slur:
Quote: Beethoven9thFor example, which would be the better response in these two scenarios?
John Doe: Hey, did you see that (N-word)?
MidwestAP: Yeah, I saw that (N-word).
OR
John Doe: Hey, did you see that (N-word)?
MidwestAP: Yeah, I saw that African-American man.
No, I meant that you missed my main point (which was illustrated in my quote above). But anyway...Quote: MidwestAPI don't think I missed anything other than what I acknowledged above.
Fair enough, and I actually agree. And I was doing just that until the racial slur by a mod was needlessly used. But since I have already pointed out the slur, I'm done again (although I do reserve the right to address any future violations and to respond to others who directly address me).Quote: MidwestAPListen, I'm really not trying to blast you, I just think it's better for the forum as a whole if this is put behind us and everyone moves on.
Quote: beachbumbabsYou're actually illustrating a common problem on this site; people from all over the world are here, for many English is their second language, for many others regionalisms mean very different things to English speakers. Some people's perception of what you post is that you're funny; other people find you insulting, other people have other opinions. recent cite: AnabelleT, with bonus offense to Tomspur, as he says quite clearly.
If you complained to me that "facepalm" is offensive when said to you, citing your definition above, I would say that your definition is not commonly accepted (as in, "I reject the premise that words can be redefined simply to justify your umbrage"), and I would not take action against the offender for the singularity of its use. However, if in context it was clearly intended as a personal insult, it's possible the offense would be actionable. The difference is, YOU have defined it for yourself, as a cut-and-paste stand-in for what you want to say, so if YOU use it, you have set the bar yourself. Your long "definition" could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be anything other than extremely insulting, profane, and actionable.
But, of course, you knew all of that before you asked.
When were kids, when we'd meet new girls, sometimes we'd start chanting U.S.A. This probably made some people think we were weird, patriots or way too in to the Olympics or something. But it was code for Ugly Skank Alert. Just reminded me of that.
Quote: LarryS
Its like a teacher in school who walks into the class and a boy had written "jimmy smith is an idiot"on the blackboard....the teacher finds out who did it....sends the boy to the principals office.....but leaves that saying on the board for the semester. What about jimmy smith. Oh who cares.....at least the other boy was punished .
And after a while the offending boy asks the teacher "why is the slogan"jimmy smith is an idiot" still on the board....the answer is.....it doesnt matter...as long as you felt shame...thats what really counts. And the offending boy says.......whether I can measure my shame to meet your standards..whats the difference....its still there for jimmy to see. Why are you so indifferent to the victim the boy asks.......and the teacher gives him detention because she is in a bad mood...the end/
Despite your seemingly unending incoherence, I find this an apt analogy. As Face pointed out, they aren't empowered to delete posts at their leisure. However, I think this is something that should be taken under consideration by the staff, to decrease the suspension rate.
B9--Yes, Chinaman is definitely a slur by a broad definition, 100% in agreement...but he is not a member of the forum.
You should always be nice to the skanky ones, they sometimes have hot friends. Ignore the hot friend and pretend you like the skanky one. The hot one will wonder whats wrong with her and then she will be all over you, like JJ on on a stack of black chippies.Quote: SonuvabishWhen were kids, when we'd meet new girls, sometimes we'd start chanting U.S.A. This probably made some people think we were weird, patriots or way too in to the Olympics or something. But it was code for Ugly Skank Alert. Just reminded me of that.
Quote: AxelWolflike JJ on on a stack of black chippies.
Priceless!
Quote: AxelWolfYou should always be nice to the skanky ones, they sometimes have hot friends. Ignore the hot friend and pretend you like the skanky one. The hot one will wonder whats wrong with her and then she will be all over you, like JJ on on a stack of black chippies.
I love skanks. It's the ugly ones I don't like.
Quote: AxelWolflike JJ on on a stack of black chippies.
We saw her and her cru at a high limit blackjack table doin her thang. It was more like one geen chippie though. "How to gamble like a G".
Quote: AxelWolfIt's kind of like when you're a kid and you plug both ears and say, NAH, NHA, NHA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
In fairness, I find the forum much easier to use by blocking a few people. Some people just have nothing useful or interesting to add to any discussion.
Quote: Beethoven9thThat's OK, I expected it to be meaningless for you anyway. lol]
Quote: teliotAs someone who knows nothing about any of the current conflict under discussion, I read a statement like that as essentially calling another person stupid and taking the extra dig with "lol." There are many ways to dig at people online that hurt one person while appearing innocuous to others.
Oh well. I don't know who some of these posters are, I just decided to drop in on this conversation. But, wow. Apologies if I have it totally wrong.
And I regard it as an insult and interpret it just the way you do, right here in the thread about unfairness of application of suspensions by B9.
It definitely says "you" meaning me. No mistaking the context.
Quote: rxwineAnd I regard it as an insult and interpret it just the way you do
Kinda like your 5-month-old sig, huh? (wink wink)
Quote: Beethoven9thKinda like your 5-month-old sig, huh? (wink wink)
You ever hear the saying, if the shoe fits, wear it. That's my sig. But anyone could wear the shoe, it's impersonal.
If mine is bad, yours is personal.
"Are ex-swine crazy? Yep, it was just proved! :D"
Are you are implying that it is acceptable to present an obviously targeted statement and then claim that it is not targeted?Quote: rxwineYou ever hear the saying, if the shoe fits, wear it. That's my sig. But anyone could wear the shoe, it's impersonal.
Quote: rob45Are you are implying that it is acceptable to present an obviously targeted statement and then claim that it is not targeted?
I'm good with whatever management rules. And B9 already pointed out my sig is 5 months old. It was only personal insults then. Now it's all insult. Plus if I take your argument as fact, you just indicted B9 with it as well.
Quote: rxwineBut anyone could wear the shoe, it's impersonal.
...but it looks like you already incriminated yourself in this post:
Quote: rxwineI considered facepalming with all those random ridiculous pictures insulting and trolling.
Ouch!
Of course you didn't write that incriminating post just the other day, right?Quote: rxwineYeah, b9. I don't even know what argument you're making. We're also under current rules, not old rules.
[wink wink, nudge nudge] ;)
Nope, not at all.Quote: rxwine...you just indicted B9 with it as well.
I changed my sig around the time everyone was having that discussion about Curtis Reeves, the former cop who shot and killed a man who refused to stop texting in a movie theater. And remember that nutcase Christopher Dorner who went on a shooting spree last year? He was also a former cop. Both former cops are crazy. Cops are also called "pigs", and "swine" is another word for "pig".
So...are ex-swine [Reeves & Dorner] crazy? Yep, it was just proved [after that nutty Reeves killed the innocent moviegoer]! :)
I WAS THERE.
You were here at my desk when I changed it? That's news to me.Quote: rxwineI WAS THERE.
All I know is that I looked at the news, and there was discussion about the Reeves case. That's when I changed my sig. But noooooooo, you were here with me, right? lol...
Quote: Beethoven9thHmm...I thought I was done in this thread, but considering that I was suspended for "slurs", I think I need to point out...
It's interesting that a mod talks about "offensive things" but then uses a racial slur immediately afterwards.Quote: beachbumbabs...and reading with no context increasingly accusatory and offensive things, not about the Chinaman, but about her.
From The Free Dictionary:Quote:Chi¡¤na¡¤man (ch¨©¡änə-mən)
n. Offensive
A Chinese man.
From List of Ethnic Slurs:Quote:Chinaman: Found offensive, although it is a translation of the Chinese ÖЇøÈË. It was used in the gold rush and railway-construction eras in western North America, when discrimination against Chinese was common.
From Chinaman (term):Quote:Chinaman is a contentious English language term that denotes a Chinese man or person.
Although the term has no negative connotations in older dictionaries...the term Chinaman is noted as offensive by modern dictionaries.
In fact, just two weeks ago the New York Mets were forced to apologize after their pitching coach used the very same racial slur.
From NY Mets and pitching coach Dan Warthen apologize for racial slur:Quote:Dan Warthen and the Mets were issuing apologies Wednesday night after a report in the Wall Street Journal accused the pitching coach of using a racial slur in the clubhouse Monday...
Now we've got a mod using racial slurs. How's that for irony?
Nice try, but no. Anabelle and everyone else, up to and including EvenBob, who I was quoting, called him "the Chinaman". So your calling me out about using that term to identify him, when it was specific to EB's identification of the subject, is incorrect and misleading.
Quote:ex-swine crazy? Yep, it was just proved! :D
The little smiley means you were laughing at two murders then. Okay b9.
Whatever... if people believe you, there's nothing I can do about it.
So your defense is: "They did it too"??? Interesting. How come that defense never works for me?Quote: beachbumbabsNice try, but no. Anabelle and everyone else, up to and including EvenBob, who I was quoting, called him "the Chinaman". So your calling me out about using that term to identify him, when it was specific to EB's identification of the subject, is incorrect and misleading.
I'm curious, if they had called him "the [N-word]", would you have repeated the N-word in its entirety as well??? I don't think you would have, but that's just my opinion. Also, I find it interesting that there is no apology for the offensive slur.
In any case, let me explain why a mod using an offensive racial slur against Chinese people on a gambling forum is a bad idea.
We've all been in casinos, right? Tell me, which ethnic group is vital to casinos and the gaming industry as a whole? ASIANS.
It's an irrefutable fact that Asians are crucial to the gaming industry. As you stated earlier, we have people from all over the world visit this forum...people from all walks of life and all backgrounds. Obviously, you don't feel that "Ch---man" is offensive—even though I cited 4 sources which show otherwise—but forget about that for a moment.
It doesn't matter whether or not YOU find it offensive. THEY find it offensive, and that's what counts. Asians are big gamblers, and it would be silly to alienate such a large segment of potential customers for the Wizard.
Anyone who runs a gambling-related business or website would be shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly offending the Asian community. In fact, from a business standpoint, you would have probably been better off using the N-word or the S-word since Asians are by far bigger gamblers than Blacks or Mexicans.
Here's some food for thought: Let's say that a Chinese guy comes to this forum tomorrow and sees that offensive slur. Most people (Chinese or otherwise) would be able to brush off an offensive slur by a member, but by a moderator?? What if that Chinese gambler with a big bankroll says to himself, "Gee, that's how they run this board? By insulting my ethnic heritage?? I'm outta here!"
Guess what happens after that? Since many Asians like to gamble, the Wizard's Bovada link would be right up their alley. BUT if they get upset and leave the site because of offensive racial slurs by an admin, then that means:
LESS Asians on WoV = LESS clicks on the Bovada ad = LESS money in the Wizard's pocket
I don't know why this is so difficult for people in this thread to understand.
Let me ask you point blank, what upside is there in you using that offensive racial slur???? There's plenty of downside, and it affects the Wizard's bottom line.
Quote: rxwineThe little smiley means you were laughing at two murders then
Nope, it means that I'm laughing that those 2 idiots [Reeves & Dorner] got exactly what they deserve.
Quote: rxwineIf I have a suspension coming for that, you have at least 2 coming, one for that, and one for that remark earlier here.
You may be right. I've no idea what the quarrel is about, but going by the character of those involved I¿d stake my support on you. but that won't help you when you get suspended and the other guy doesn't. And I'm loath to see your name in red.
Quote: NareedYou may be right. I've no idea what the quarrel is about, but going by the character of those involved I¿d stake my support on you. but that won't help you when you get suspended and the other guy doesn't. And I'm loath to see your name in red.
Thanks for the support, Nareed.
I'm asking a question, not presenting an argument. I am seeking information, as your response to the question may provide enlightenment in order to promote further discussion.Quote: rxwineI'm good with whatever management rules. And B9 already pointed out my sig is 5 months old. It was only personal insults then. Now it's all insult. Plus if I take your argument as fact, you just indicted B9 with it as well.Quote: rob45Are you are implying that it is acceptable to present an obviously targeted statement and then claim that it is not targeted?
Just so you know, I'm not trying to "indict" anyone ; not only do I have no interest in doing so, but it would also serve no purpose.
I attempted to formulate the question so as to elicit a yes-or-no type of answer.
Upon receipt of one of the two answers, further discussion could have developed.
If you feel that your response to the question opens an avenue for indictment of any individual, I understand your lack of response.
Quote: Beethoven9th"They did it too"??? Interesting. How come that defense never works for me? ....
There's plenty of downside, and it affects the Wizard's bottom line.
Your scenario is a real stretch. Your vengeful attitude toward BBB is regretable as it brings the whole forum down.
I'm sorry that you don't find racial slurs offensive, especially when it affects the Wizard's bottom line (i.e., less Asians to gamble on Bovada). If you feel that's a "stretch", then it sounds like you've never run a business before that relies on customers.Quote: MidwestAPYour scenario is a real stretch. Your vengeful attitude toward BBB is regretable as it brings the whole forum down.
Tell me, what's the big upside to having a mod use an offensive racial slur??? There must be one since you're intent on defending it.
EDIT: If a member described a gay guy as "The F****t", is there an upside to following suit and calling him "The F****t" yourself???
Quote: rxwineThanks for the support, Nareed.
Any time.
Quote: rob45I'm asking a question, not presenting an argument. I am seeking information, as your response to the question may provide enlightenment in order to promote further discussion.
Just so you know, I'm not trying to "indict" anyone ; not only do I have no interest in doing so, but it would also serve no purpose.
I attempted to formulate the question so as to elicit a yes-or-no type of answer.
Upon receipt of one of the two answers, further discussion could have developed.
If you feel that your response to the question opens an avenue for indictment of any individual, I understand your lack of response.
Let me put it this way, Ron. I don't regret it. I don't take it back. I'm willing to be suspended for it. And I feel I have explained it more than once on this thread.
I take full responsibility for it.
Quote: Beethoven9thNope, it means that I'm laughing that those 2 idiots [Reeves & Dorner] got exactly what they deserve.
ex-swine= cops So you have an interest in not just cops but for some reason ex-cops who get what they deserve. And you use a "slur" to describe them. No they are not members here, but I'm pretty sure cops think reference to pigs is insulting and probably even a slur in some cases.
I read this thread from the last three days and I feel like I'm back in Grade 3. Certainly the quality of this forum is not improved by all of this crap, which the last 8-9 pages of this forum thread truly is, crap (and no, I'm not talking about dice.).
Get over it and move on!!! BBB, Face, Mission, and Wizard can enforce the rules whatever freaking way they want to.
The lines have been shifted in order to have more qualitative posts and to shut down alot of the left-vs-right bickering. That's the moderator's perogative. If anyone doesn't like it, there's the door. I accept the rules and penalties for being on here, without much question.
BBB/Face/Mission: carry on... no need to defend yourself, and please don't.
Everone else: it's just an internet forum, a damned good one, but a forum, nonetheless.
Quote: rxwineQuote: Beethoven9thNope, it means that I'm laughing that those 2 idiots [Reeves & Dorner] got exactly what they deserve.
ex-swine= cops So you have an interest in not just cops but for some reason ex-cops who get what they deserve. And you use a "slur" to describe them...
Wrong as usual. It's no longer derogatory.
(P)ride
(I)ntegrity
(G)uts
Quote: boymimboSigh. All this bickering and complaining and navel-gazing over a freaking three-day ban!!!
I read this thread from the last three days
You sure you've been reading this thread? The whole discussion is currently about an offensive racial slur by a mod against Chinese people. You're a pretty liberal guy. Surely you don't want mods to needlessly offend our valued Asian members of the forum.
Asians are crucial to the gaming industry, and I'm sure the Wizard would love for them to click on the Bovada ad. (If a mod had referred to a gay guy as "The F****t" or a black person as "The N****r", I'm sure you'd have a problem with that, right???)
Quote: boymimboSigh. All this bickering and complaining and navel-gazing over a freaking three-day ban!!!
.
Where is s2dbaker? His 3 days was up 3 days
ago and he hasn't checked in since way before
that.
