Discussion III about the Suspension List
Quote: Romes]It was ZK, and he was off on his count ;-)... He was off by one, one time, but he did seem like he had the skills down to be a winning player.
link to original post
Missing a card = 1 card less penetration. (Is that word allowed here? It's naughty!)
I will save my bad language for the Wizard of Atlantic City site, where profanity and abusive language aren't just permitted, they're mandatory!
Quote: HunterhillA certain poster has pmd me asking for more specific details about my meeting kewlj i am not going to give out more details about it because it will just be used for more nasty attacks on the other site. I certainly wouldn’t give you his physical description.
link to original post
Disclosing private messages is one of the greater WoV sins. I'll consider that the message was paraphrased and the sender anonymous (*ahem*) in my sentence -- one week suspension.
Especially, when it's been apparent that the former member has wanted to keep his identity a secret.
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
Could say place jumped the shark, but that was at least a half decade ago after owner turned caretaker, those of us who’ve stuck around probably need our heads examined.
Should probably just hang the hat up…. it’s been over.
Quote: mcallister3200Debatable if that’s considered disclosing a pm. “Someone” alerted Wiz and asked for a suspension, 99.73% probability.
Could say place jumped the shark, but that was at least a half decade ago after owner turned caretaker, those of us who’ve stuck around probably need our heads examined.
Should probably just hang the hat up…. it’s been over.
link to original post
Nah!
99.99999% probability
Quote: WizardQuote: HunterhillA certain poster has pmd me asking for more specific details about my meeting kewlj i am not going to give out more details about it because it will just be used for more nasty attacks on the other site. I certainly wouldn’t give you his physical description.
link to original post
Disclosing private messages is one of the greater WoV sins. I'll consider that the message was paraphrased and the sender anonymous (*ahem*) in my sentence -- one week suspension.
link to original post
wait what?!
Hunter didnt mention who sent him the PM.
How the heck is this a suspendable offense, much less 1 week???
Quote: AxelWolfI'm fairly certain that Hunterhill knew there was a good chance he was going to get suspended for this. I commend him for alerting us to the fact that someone is skulking around in private messages attempting to get private personal information about former members.
Especially, when it's been apparent that the former member has wanted to keep his identity a secret.
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
So somebody doubted you were a member of the human race? Again? I bet you hate when that happenss..
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfI'm fairly certain that Hunterhill knew there was a good chance he was going to get suspended for this. I commend him for alerting us to the fact that someone is skulking around in private messages attempting to get private personal information about former members.
Especially, when it's been apparent that the former member has wanted to keep his identity a secret.
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
So somebody doubted you were a member of the human race? Again? I bet you hate when that happenss..
link to original post
I thought they were asking if he won, placed, or showed.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfI'm fairly certain that Hunterhill knew there was a good chance he was going to get suspended for this. I commend him for alerting us to the fact that someone is skulking around in private messages attempting to get private personal information about former members.
Especially, when it's been apparent that the former member has wanted to keep his identity a secret.
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
So somebody doubted you were a member of the human race? Again? I bet you hate when that happenss..
link to original post
Yeah, I get that a lot myself.
But I thought he was talking about F1, and where to get cheap tickets.
Who is he? Are you telling me you know who this person is? Do tell, do tell.Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfI'm fairly certain that Hunterhill knew there was a good chance he was going to get suspended for this. I commend him for alerting us to the fact that someone is skulking around in private messages attempting to get private personal information about former members.
Especially, when it's been apparent that the former member has wanted to keep his identity a secret.
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
So somebody doubted you were a member of the human race? Again? I bet you hate when that happenss..
link to original post
Yeah, I get that a lot myself.
But I thought he was talking about F1, and where to get cheap tickets.
link to original post
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: WizardQuote: HunterhillA certain poster has pmd me asking for more specific details about my meeting kewlj i am not going to give out more details about it because it will just be used for more nasty attacks on the other site. I certainly wouldn’t give you his physical description.
link to original post
Disclosing private messages is one of the greater WoV sins. I'll consider that the message was paraphrased and the sender anonymous (*ahem*) in my sentence -- one week suspension.
link to original post
wait what?!
Hunter didnt mention who sent him the PM.
How the heck is this a suspendable offense, much less 1 week???
link to original post
Because Hunterhill shouldn't have mentioned getting a PM at all. Sure he didn't say who sent him the PM, but he STILL brought up getting a PM and even brought up the NATURE of the PM Oh hell no. 😡🤬. It would have been bad enough if he had said,"I got an unsolicited PM yesterday, but he brought up the SUBJECT of the PM. I myself had my PRIVATE MESSAGES exposed PUBLICLY a few months ago, and I'm PISSED at MY PRIVATE MESSAGES being put out there PUBLICLY. If I were the SENDER of the PM to Hunterhill, I would have been PISSED off at Hunterhill for that dastardly stunt he pulled. 😡🤬
But certainly seeking information on former members is worse?
Let's face it, the whole reason it was asked via PM was because it's creepy stalkerish.
The Wizard has been to my actual home once. I would consider it weird and creepy if someone started enquiring of the Wizard where I lived.
The PM system is supposed to be for secretive POSITIVE discussions. Like, hey, I need help on a sensitive Advantage play, would you like to join me? Etc
It's not for clandestine enquiries into other people's whereabouts.
Quote: AxelWolfWhomever it was that was stalking KJ, I have a feeling they will avoid this thread talk about mundane things, and pretend like none of it ever happened.
link to original post
All that needs be said I think is that both the nature and intent of my private messages have been distorted. Better to just say that to let this matter settle, rather than start a tit for tat discussion of how and why they were distorted.
In any case, I believe the rule remains that WOV private messages or their content should not be disclosed at WOV. It's rather crazy to me to see a moderator THANK someone for posting the content of a private message. In a way I think it's even worse when the sender is merely alluded to, because that allows the poster to distort the content or intent and then the person who sent the message might not want to step forward to clarify because he doesn't want to be identified. I have no such qualms, I don't have a problem with any messages I sent other than that they should have remained private, so here I am.
Quote: darkozI get the PM suspension although I also don't agree with it.
But certainly seeking information on former members is worse?
Let's face it, the whole reason it was asked via PM was because it's creepy stalkerish.
The Wizard has been to my actual home once. I would consider it weird and creepy if someone started enquiring of the Wizard where I lived.
The PM system is supposed to be for secretive POSITIVE discussions. Like, hey, I need help on a sensitive Advantage play, would you like to join me? Etc
It's not for clandestine enquiries into other people's whereabouts.
link to original post
Equally important to be clear about just how private these messages are. On most fora including major social media, there are people associated with the site who have the ability to read private messages. In my opinion, there should be a full disclosure of which people could read PMs if they wanted to, and then the users can all decide what they are willing to put in a PM. (I am not suggesting anyone here reads PMs that were not addressed to them.) I am aware of an incident where a correlation was noted between discussing AP in PM, and those discussing it being backed off, trespassed, and in one case arrested for AP. Maybe just a coincidence.
Personally I do not like having the ability to do such things, because like many who are "on the spectrum" I have zero social self-defense skills and if I get accused of something I invariably end up having to wear it. A recurring theme in my life since first grade. So I'd rather not have ever had the keys. But somebody has to have them and if you are using PM for something nefarious (like stalking an AP) you are potentially implicating those who potentially have access to those PMs, and thus giving them a reason to use that power to read PMs to figure out what is going on and how whatever you are doing could affect them.
Quote: MDawg
In any case, I believe the rule remains that WOV private messages or their content should not be disclosed at WOV. It's rather crazy to me to see a moderator THANK someone for posting the content of a private message. In a way I think it's even worse when the sender is merely alluded to, because that allows the poster to distort the content or intent and then the person who sent the message might not want to step forward to clarify because he doesn't want to be identified. I have no such qualms, I don't have a problem with any messages I sent other than that they should have remained private, so here I am.
link to original post
The rule, as I understand it, is that private messages are supposed to be private. If the two parties agree to publicize the message contents (I'm assuming it's something like Shepherd Wong's egg salad recipe), it becomes acceptable to then share the information.
Assuming that I'm the grateful moderator, I approve of not disclosing the private details of a clandestine meeting. I don't approve of spilling the PM beans. It looked to me like the PM sender was not specified, and the posted attempted to comply with rules 4 and 14. It is quite hard to show the appropriate granularity, to "thumbs up" one phrase, and "thumbs down" another.
Quote: gordonm888Regarding the ability of WOV staff to read the PMs of forum members that are not addressed to them - I certainly do not have that ability. My general understanding is that Dieter and Wizard do not have that ability either.
link to original post
I do not have that ability.
If I am to investigate a PM for a rule violation, it needs to be forwarded to me.
It may be technically possible for a database admin to read a PM, but I have it on pretty good authority that they have no desire to read them, and better things to do than go snooping.
In general, this should also apply to past forum moderators. As I understand, very few people have ever had database admin access.
I never had such a powerQuote: Dieter
I do not have that ability.
..
In general, this should also apply to past forum moderators. As I understand, very few people have ever had database admin access.
link to original post
Quote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
Quote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
Quote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
link to original post
I can read them with my psychic ability but I'm usually wrong.
Quote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
link to original post
It's very likely that PM;s are stored in a mysql database, which is readable by techs with root access to the server. Wizard, the techs and the site owners have no reason to deny or confirm.
I take it you are admitting here that you did in fact ask Hunterhill about KJ's identity or whatever?Quote: MDawgA lot of all this recent "private message drama" has to do with other forum drama that should not be discussed here. AxelWolf has brought up a lot of it, with regards to the private message he mentions, trying to appear clumsy when he knows quite well he is disclosing the sender's identity perfectly, and also all that stuff he posted about ZenKing - none of that belongs at this forum almost all of that is drama from another forum. But, Wolf doesn't seem to care about playing by the "no other forum drama import" rules.
All that needs be said I think is that both the nature and intent of my private messages have been distorted. Better to just say that to let this matter settle, rather than start a tit for tat discussion of how and why they were distorted.
In any case, I believe the rule remains that WOV private messages or their content should not be disclosed at WOV. It's rather crazy to me to see a moderator THANK someone for posting the content of a private message. In a way I think it's even worse when the sender is merely alluded to, because that allows the poster to distort the content or intent and then the person who sent the message might not want to step forward to clarify because he doesn't want to be identified. I have no such qualms, I don't have a problem with any messages I sent other than that they should have remained private, so here I am.
link to original post
That begs the question, WHY?
Quote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
I think God can probably read them
.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
I think God can probably read them
link to original post
Which Gods?
zeus? flying spaghetti's monster? Lady luck? Elon?
LOLQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
link to original post
It's very likely that PM;s are stored in a mysql database, which is readable by techs with root access to the server. Wizard, the techs and the site owners have no reason to deny or confirm.
link to original post
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
I think God can probably read them
.
link to original post
He doesn't need to.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanQuote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Does anyone?
I think God can probably read them
.
link to original post
He doesn't need to.
On another forum I occasionally post on, administrators can read PMs, but Moderators can't. Some tech people can.
Quote: billryan
He doesn't need to.
On another forum I occasionally post on, administrators can read PMs, but Moderators can't. Some tech people can.
link to original post
To the best of my knowledge, nobody can read someone else's PM's through the usual software.
One of the very few tech people may be able to extract PM's from the database administration software, but they're usually busy with other things, and not snoopy.
I haven't worried about having my PM's snooped in almost a decade, in case anyone finds my brand of paranoia reassuring.
Quote: DieterQuote: billryan
He doesn't need to.
On another forum I occasionally post on, administrators can read PMs, but Moderators can't. Some tech people can.
link to original post
To the best of my knowledge, nobody can read someone else's PM's through the usual software.
One of the very few tech people may be able to extract PM's from the database administration software, but they're usually busy with other things, and not snoopy.
I haven't worried about having my PM's snooped in almost a decade, in case anyone finds my brand of paranoia reassuring.
link to original post♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: DieterQuote: billryan
He doesn't need to.
On another forum I occasionally post on, administrators can read PMs, but Moderators can't. Some tech people can.
link to original post
To the best of my knowledge, nobody can read someone else's PM's through the usual software.
One of the very few tech people may be able to extract PM's from the database administration software, but they're usually busy with other things, and not snoopy.
I haven't worried about having my PM's snooped in almost a decade, in case anyone finds my brand of paranoia reassuring.
link to original post
link to original post
(fixed formatting)
Context:
Back when I was a tech guy, I could read peoples emails and snoop their confidential files, but I didn't without cause, because there's a code of ethics.
Unless I was required to dump data because of a search warrant or an audit, I didn't. Period.
That's how things usually go among the tech people.
Like I said, I haven't been worried in a long time.
FYI it only seems to go back to 2013.
I've got about 113 pages, but I've read 'em.
As much as I enjoy red envelopes, I guess I'm still enough of a kid to open them promptly.
Quote: OnceDear
It's very likely that PM;s are stored in a mysql database, which is readable by techs with root access to the server. Wizard, the techs and the site owners have no reason to deny or confirm.
There are plenty of good reasons to deny it because you want your users feeling "safe" that their communication isn't being read by others.
I wrote forum software (called a BBS at the time) about 40 years ago. I did have the ability to read all private messages.
Quote: WizardQuote: OnceDearI do not have that ability.
link to original post
Neither do I.
link to original post
Wow I would have thought JB give you that ability when he wrote this forum software for you.
Quote: DRichQuote: OnceDear
It's very likely that PM;s are stored in a mysql database, which is readable by techs with root access to the server. Wizard, the techs and the site owners have no reason to deny or confirm.
There are plenty of good reasons to deny it because you want your users feeling "safe" that their communication isn't being read by others.
I wrote forum software (called a BBS at the time) about 40 years ago. I did have the ability to read all private messages.
link to original post
In all the forums I participate in, I assume the Admin/owner acct is all powerful including the ability to read PM"s.
To paraphrase Sauron, the one account to rule them all
Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfWhomever it was that was stalking KJ, I have a feeling they will avoid this thread talk about mundane things, and pretend like none of it ever happened.
link to original post
link to original post
I do not beat around the bush. I stepped forward to address this directly to state that both the nature and intent of my private messages have been distorted, and I did so notwithstanding A.Wolf's feeling that I would "pretend like none of it ever happened."
On the other hand does AxelWolf have the guts to admit that he is talking about me including with his insult below?
Straight shooters understand what is going on at casinos, which is part of why I discount anything A.Wolf has to say on the subject of casinos, especially with regards to anything to do with CTRs, casino cage checks and table games in general! How can I take someone seriously who seems afraid to say exactly what he means!
Quote: AxelWolf
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
The WOV Forum seems to store its private messages in some (unencrypted) form on its servers and so they are almost certainly retrievable by an IT guy who manages the system. As Dieter has said, the tech guy(s) probably couldn't care less who says what to whom.
Probably the most private way to message people (that is widely available) is "WhatsApp" - the messages are encrypted when sent and decrypted when received but are not stored on WhatsApp servers -they are only stored on the phones of the sender and recipients. The exceptions are undelivered messages which are stored as encrypted messages on WhatsApp servers for 30 days before being deleted.
US intelligence agencies do communicate in ways that are even more secure than WhatsApp, but I will not explain that statement further.
Classic misdirection... You attempting to gather PRIVATE PERSONAL INFORMATION about members via private messages has nothing to do with what you just posted. And you fail to address the whole entire reason why I mentioned getting a CTR.Quote: MDawgQuote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfWhomever it was that was stalking KJ, I have a feeling they will avoid this thread talk about mundane things, and pretend like none of it ever happened.
link to original post
link to original post
I do not beat around the bush. I stepped forward to address this directly to state that both the nature and intent of my private messages have been distorted, and I did so notwithstanding A.Wolf's feeling that I would "pretend like none of it ever happened."
On the other hand does AxelWolf have the guts to admit that he is talking about me including with his insult below?
Straight shooters understand what is going on at casinos, which is part of why I discount anything A.Wolf has to say on the subject of casinos, especially with regards to anything to do with CTRs, casino cage checks and table games in general! How can I take someone seriously who seems afraid to say exactly what he means!Quote: AxelWolf
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
link to original post
Oh but wait, you have taken my advice when it comes to things related to casinos and the forums. And it was a very serious valuable bit of advice. It was on my advice that you decided not post you're supposed casino sessions in real-time, and you have said as much.
There is more, but I'll save that for another time when im feeling frisky.
This still begs the question, WHY?Quote: AxelWolfI take it you are admitting here that you did in fact ask Hunterhill about KJ's identity or whatever?Quote: MDawgA lot of all this recent "private message drama" has to do with other forum drama that should not be discussed here. AxelWolf has brought up a lot of it, with regards to the private message he mentions, trying to appear clumsy when he knows quite well he is disclosing the sender's identity perfectly, and also all that stuff he posted about ZenKing - none of that belongs at this forum almost all of that is drama from another forum. But, Wolf doesn't seem to care about playing by the "no other forum drama import" rules.
All that needs be said I think is that both the nature and intent of my private messages have been distorted. Better to just say that to let this matter settle, rather than start a tit for tat discussion of how and why they were distorted.
In any case, I believe the rule remains that WOV private messages or their content should not be disclosed at WOV. It's rather crazy to me to see a moderator THANK someone for posting the content of a private message. In a way I think it's even worse when the sender is merely alluded to, because that allows the poster to distort the content or intent and then the person who sent the message might not want to step forward to clarify because he doesn't want to be identified. I have no such qualms, I don't have a problem with any messages I sent other than that they should have remained private, so here I am.
link to original post
That begs the question, WHY?
link to original post
If you want to man up and admit that this insult "It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?" was directed at MDawg, then we may talk after you take your suspension like a man. As long as you are trying to be less than forthright about what you are saying, you don't even deserve a further response.
Quote: AxelWolf
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
Quote: AxelWolfOh but wait, you have taken my advice when it comes to things related to casinos and the forums. And it was a very serious valuable bit of advice. It was on my advice that you decided not post you're supposed casino sessions in real-time, and you have said as much.
link to original post
This too is a disclosure of what you claim is my side of a private message.
Why should I continue with this topic with someone who not only so far seems afraid to man up and admit the direct insult to MDawg, but also keeps disclosing PMs. At least with this PM you are disclosing the PM without distorting its nature and intent.
Are you ever going to man up and admit that you complain every chance you can get on everything that hurts your feelings? Are you going to man up and admit how many complaints you've made to Mike and other moderators in an attempt to get people suspended?Quote: MDawgI already manned up and admitted that I sent those PMs, and explained that the nature and intent of them were distorted. And stated that Better to just say that to let this matter settle, rather than start a tit for tat discussion of how and why they were distorted.
If you want to man up and admit that this insult "It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?" was directed at MDawg, then we may talk after you take your suspension like a man. As long as you are trying to be less than forthright about what you are saying, you don't even deserve a further response.Quote: AxelWolf
I mean really who does that? It couldn't possibly be anyone successful in life, could it?
I know, I was recently asked about my race for no good reason. I found that rather creepy, stalkerish, and odd. I wonder if it's the same person who was seeking KJ's personal private information?
link to original post
link to original post
Meantime, who filed this complaint?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/36647-the-adventures-of-mdawg-ii/96/#post941535
and others against me where the only logical conclusion would be AxelWolf, "admit that you complain every chance you can get on everything that hurts your feelings."
The fact that you mention "feelings" - admit that you complain every chance you can get on everything that hurts your feelings - leads me to believe that may well be your motive in all the complaints you have ostensibly filed.
I don't believe that is the case with complaints filed by others, they might just be part of the WOV suspension game with no particular hard or other feelings in mind.
I'd say that the problem, if there is one, is not the suspension, but taking the suspension personally. That doesn't mean it is not okay to complain about an unjustified suspension, but do so analytically, coolly, not emotionally.
