why are VPN's allowed at WOV
Sockpuppets are a big part of these guys and their phony claims. When absolutely no one else believes them anymore, they create new friends and supporters via sockpuppet. Rob Singer for example was the KING of sockpuppets. And there are others right now.
I am asking Wizard to reconsider the policy of allowing VPN's in the name of transparency, fairness and truth.
The vast majority of people who use VPNs are for privacy reasons.
Quote: GandlerI am not on many forums, but is banning VPNs a common rule? To my knowledge I have never heard of that.
The vast majority of people who use VPNs are for privacy reasons.
If not banning them, most forums require a user to unmask for a couple posts so the admins can know if it is a sockpuppet.
No good can come from sockpuppets. It is people that have no credibility making sockpuppets for credibility. And in these times of great trolling, it is a regular forum member using sock puppets to attack someone so the sockpuppet gets banned and not the regular forum member. Almost anyway you slice it, using sockpuppets is about deceit and misrepresenting the truth and the tool for using them VPN's should not be allowed.
the only way to do it is ban the VPNs ip address range i would assume
whats happening here is - you think that a vpn is what is allowing a user to "mask" themselves because you believe that an IP address is ALWAYS associated with a user, which its not.
an IP address cant actually identify a user all the time because they are not usually permanent, and will change in time.
the answer to your problem is browser fingerprinting
Quote: heatmapVPNs allow for people who are being oppressed by their governments to communicate freely without worrying about people spying on them.
Are you sure about that?
I thought that the government has the ability to track anything and everything to its source, virtual private network be damned.
I'm told that CIA / DIA / NSA has the tools, but then again I'm not tech-savvy.
Quote: MrVAre you sure about that?
I thought that the government has the ability to track anything and everything to its source, virtual private network be damned.
I'm told that CIA / DIA / NSA has the tools, but then again I'm not tech-savvy.
VPNs locations are easily trackable - you are talking about TOR
lets put it this way - if you arent on a VPN - your internet provider and anyone who is on your internal wifi or network can see WHAT WEBSITES YOU GO TO and possibly WHAT YOU ARE SAYING TO THOSE WEBSITES
VPNs - anyone knows you are talking to the VPN, but no clue what that VPN is saying back and fourth to you - the VPN is like a PROXY that contacts a website for you so you appear to be coming from a different IP - which is what i think KewlJ is worried about
proxys allow you to "act" like you are coming from a different IP address
Quote: gamerfreakSorry KJ you are wrong about this. There is no reliable way to block users from using a VPN.
On another website than many members her are also members of, the owner makes accounts suspected of being a sockpuppet and using a VPN, unmask, for one or two posts so he can see their real IP address. This all but eliminates the sockpuppet problem. I just think that should be done here, especially when many members raise concerns over what appears to an sockpuppet account here only to lend false credibility.
Quote: kewljOn another website than many members her are also members of, the owner makes accounts suspected of being a sockpuppet and using a VPN, unmask, for one or two posts so he can see their real IP address. This all but eliminates the sockpuppet problem. I just think that should be done here, especially when many members raise concerns over what appears to an sockpuppet account here only to lend false credibility.
like i said you could have a list of ALL the VPN providers IP address range and anyone coming from the IP range could be known as a VPN user but i would say that work computers use VPNs alot
Quote: kewljOn another website than many members her are also members of, the owner makes accounts suspected of being a sockpuppet and using a VPN, unmask, for one or two posts so he can see their real IP address. This all but eliminates the sockpuppet problem. I just think that should be done here, especially when many members raise concerns over what appears to an sockpuppet account here only to lend false credibility.
There are only a few ways you could do this.
Then first is to compare the IP address against a list of known VPN service IP’s. That might work fine if the sock is using a popular service like Nord VPN or something, but that list is never going to be concise. There are thousands of small “mom and pop” VPN services, it would be like whack a mole.
The other way is that if the IP of the user is from a different geographical area than wherever than what would match their backstory. People post on forums with varying levels of anonymity, but for the most part everyone’s general whereabouts are known. If someone claiming to be a Vegas baccarat whale is posting from a German IP address, something is probably up.
The second method takes a decent amount of sleuthing which I doubt most forum moderation would have an appetite for.
Edit. And, by the way, browser fingerprinting as a means of tracking identity might work now, but the big dogs continue to reduce the ability to use that.
how about just banning vpn's when creating accts?Quote: kewljSo we all know that certain members are using sockpuppets which is supposed to be not allowed here. They are getting away with it because VPN are apparently allowed here. No other forum allows VPN to hide IP addresses. Despite whatever rules you post allowing VPN is encouraging sockpuppets.
Sockpuppets are a big part of these guys and their phony claims. When absolutely no one else believes them anymore, they create new friends and supporters via sockpuppet. Rob Singer for example was the KING of sockpuppets. And there are others right now.
I am asking Wizard to reconsider the policy of allowing VPN's in the name of transparency, fairness and truth.
allow vpn's after the acct is created?
or allow vpn's after 10 posts?
Quote: kewljSo we all know that certain members are using sockpuppets which is supposed to be not allowed here. They are getting away with it because VPN are apparently allowed here.
KewlJ. Already, I feel that you are side-stepping the spirit of your recent agreement with Wizard. Timing and context tell me that you are again going after you know who. We don't need any more threads about him! This is my first and final warning to you on that!
Quote:No other forum allows VPN to hide IP addresses. Despite whatever rules you post allowing VPN is encouraging sockpuppets
Detecting Socks and detecting VPN's is not an exact science. Sometimes we can absolutely identify them. Sometimes we can't. We have had some quite successful socks that did not use vpns and there are perfectly legitimate reasons to use vpns to connect. E.g. I cannot connect to here from certain sites without using my vpn. Also, one might reasonably want to remain anonymous! Both from the visited site and from the internet connection site.
I'll tell you what does encourage sock-puppets: Blabbing about how they might succeed in going undetected.
Quote: kewljIf not banning them, most forums require a user to unmask for a couple posts so the admins can know if it is a sockpuppet. Almost anyway you slice it, using sockpuppets is about deceit and misrepresenting the truth and the tool for using them VPN's should not be allowed.
Kewl... THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT HERE for anyone to prove who he/she IS OR IS NOT. No demand for face to face interview. No demand to see ID and No demand for unmasking of IP. No need for ANY Personal Identifying Information. NONE!
What other forums permit or demand is up to them.
Here. Users are not obliged to prove that they are not sock-puppets by revealing anything about themselves. Not even real IP address or real location. Sure. It makes life easier for ne'er do wells. Get over it!
Quote: OnceDearKewlJ. Already, I feel that you are side-stepping the spirit of your recent agreement with Wizard. Timing and context tell me that you are again going after you know who. We don't need any more threads about him! This is my first and final warning to you on that!
Detecting Socks and detecting VPN's is not an exact science. Sometimes we can absolutely identify them. Sometimes we can't. We have had some quite successful socks that did not use vpns and there are perfectly legitimate reasons to use vpns to connect. E.g. I cannot connect to here from certain sites without using my vpn. Also, one might reasonably want to remain anonymous! Both from the visited site and from the internet connection site.
I'll tell you what does encourage sock-puppets: Blabbing about how they might succeed in going undetected.
Kewl... THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT HERE for anyone to prove who he/she IS OR IS NOT. No demand for face to face interview. No demand to see ID and No demand for unmasking of IP. No need for ANY Personal Identifying Information. NONE!
What other forums permit or demand is up to them.
Here. Users are not obliged to prove that they are not sock-puppets by revealing anything about themselves. Not even real IP address or real location. Sure. It makes life easier for ne'er do wells. Get over it!
This is more than about any one member. There have been other situations in the past and WILL be more and more after that. It is about doing everything possible to stop it. It is about credibility. And I am not talking about any one present day person. There is a kind of self-policing that occurs and rightfully so. What I mean by that is a person (past, current and future) come on and makes claims that are extremely unlikely, winning by ways that the math dose not support. membership gets to express their doubts and opinions.
And when it gets pretty lopsided, let me go back to the case of Rob Singer and there is no one left that believes the claims...the person has essentially been discredited. Then all of the sudden, "new" members pop up supporting the claims and methodology, giving the claimant new life and new credibility. That is not right. It is not fair. I didn't know the policy in the past, now that I do, I can see how that allows these situations to continue and will continue into the future. I think this loophole should be closed. If it had been closed with Singer and a few others, we wouldn't be talking about it now or with future situation.
I'll address privacy in following, so as not to run on too long.
We all give up a little privacy when we participate on a forum. You trust the owner/management to not reveal your name and who you are. During my "hiatus" from here, I was on another forum, Gambling Forums for a while, with a group that included known APs, and members from even here. After about a year it was revealed that the owner was doing some things that make him not trust-worthy of that information and there was a mass exodus. No one feels that way here. No one not trusts Wizard. If he should find out my name or age, or description, I have no doubt he would protect that. But calling out someone posting thousands of miles away from their back story and claims, and calling out sockpuppets designed ONLY to give false credibility to an otherwise discredited claim and member, is not a violation of privacy.
Quote: GandlerI am not on many forums, but is banning VPNs a common rule? To my knowledge I have never heard of that.
The vast majority of people who use VPNs are for privacy reasons.
Frequently VPNs are not allowed.
Quote: gamerfreakSorry KJ you are wrong about this. There is no reliable way to block users from using a VPN.
Kewlj is simply saying members should not post thru VPNs.
There's nothing wrong with the suggestion.
If two or more members posted from the same IP address it can indicate a sock puppet or multiple member IDs.
Use a VPN if you like, but not when you post on a forum that doesn't allow socks or multiple identities.
Kewlj, you are one member I envy. You love what you do, you are good at it and you are successful.Quote: kewljQuote: OnceDearKewlJ. Already, I feel that you are side-stepping the spirit of your recent agreement with Wizard. Timing and context tell me that you are again going after you know who. We don't need any more threads about him! This is my first and final warning to you on that!
Detecting Socks and detecting VPN's is not an exact science. Sometimes we can absolutely identify them. Sometimes we can't. We have had some quite successful socks that did not use vpns and there are perfectly legitimate reasons to use vpns to connect. E.g. I cannot connect to here from certain sites without using my vpn. Also, one might reasonably want to remain anonymous! Both from the visited site and from the internet connection site.
I'll tell you what does encourage sock-puppets: Blabbing about how they might succeed in going undetected.
Kewl... THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT HERE for anyone to prove who he/she IS OR IS NOT. No demand for face to face interview. No demand to see ID and No demand for unmasking of IP. No need for ANY Personal Identifying Information. NONE!
What other forums permit or demand is up to them.
Here. Users are not obliged to prove that they are not sock-puppets by revealing anything about themselves. Not even real IP address or real location. Sure. It makes life easier for ne'er do wells. Get over it!
This is more than about any one member. There have been other situations in the past and WILL be more and more after that. It is about doing everything possible to stop it. It is about credibility. And I am not talking about any one present day person. There is a kind of self-policing that occurs and rightfully so. What I mean by that is a person (past, current and future) come on and makes claims that are extremely unlikely, winning by ways that the math dose not support. membership gets to express their doubts and opinions.
And when it gets pretty lopsided, let me go back to the case of Rob Singer and there is no one left that believes the claims...the person has essentially been discredited. Then all of the sudden, "new" members pop up supporting the claims and methodology, giving the claimant new life and new credibility. That is not right. It is not fair. I didn't know the policy in the past, now that I do, I can see how that allows these situations to continue and will continue into the future. I think this loophole should be closed. If it had been closed with Singer and a few others, we wouldn't be talking about it now or with future situation.
I'll address privacy in following, so as not to run on too long.
But one thing I would like to share with you. When someone says something "unbelievable" or "unreal", it does not mean it is really "unbelievable" or "unreal". Why I say that? My own life experience. I have experienced something that only "happen" in a movie set. "They are so unreal and cannot happen" But it did happen right in front of me and and I was right in the middle of it. The only advice is: Use your judgement. Also, it comes with the old saying. When something is too good to be true, it probably is.
Privacy is a very important issue nowadays. I never like to disclose my own identity and location. It does not mean I like to hurt/harass anybody. It is only my preference and I hope other people will observe and respect it.Quote: kewljPRIVACY: I don't see this as a privacy issue. There is no one more concerned about privacy than I. I actually take a lot of heat from fellow AP's because I am not comfortable with meetup's and hanging out as a group of the local AP's are. So this isn't about privacy. It is about deception and misleading. If a member has a back story with unusual claims of success in Vegas, and his IP address reveals he lives in Idaho, or east Bubble-you-know what, or Canada, or Europe, I think management should be able to reveal that. That is not a violation of privacy.
We all give up a little privacy when we participate on a forum. You trust the owner/management to not reveal your name and who you are. During my "hiatus" from here, I was on another forum, Gambling Forums for a while, with a group that included known APs, and members from even here. After about a year it was revealed that the owner was doing some things that make him not trust-worthy of that information and there was a mass exodus. No one feels that way here. No one not trusts Wizard. If he should find out my name or age, or description, I have no doubt he would protect that. But calling out someone posting thousands of miles away from their back story and claims, and calling out sockpuppets designed ONLY to give false credibility to an otherwise discredited claim and member, is not a violation of privacy.
P.S. I reveal myself to 2 honorable members.
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj is simply saying members should not post thru VPNs.
There's nothing wrong with the suggestion.
If two or more members posted from the same IP address it can indicate a sock puppet or multiple member IDs.
Use a VPN if you like, but not when you post on a forum that doesn't allow socks or multiple identities.
I’ll restate - there is no reliable method to detect and ban VPN use on a website.
This thread seemed to be created with the misconception that VPN’s could be banned on the forum with the flip of a switch. It’s not that easy.
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj is simply saying members should not post thru VPNs.
There's nothing wrong with the suggestion.
If two or more members posted from the same IP address it can indicate a sock puppet or multiple member IDs.
Use a VPN if you like, but not when you post on a forum that doesn't allow socks or multiple identities.
multiple people with the same IP address can happen more often then you think because they can be coming from the same location - such as people who are in school or a coffee shop it is not an indication they are colluding although it could be used as a way to be aware of whats going on
Cheers BNMOAT.Quote: AxelWolfThere are so many ways people can easily defeat the WOV sockpuppet detection task force. The head of sockpuppet security here is limited to his tools, time, and restrictions set by management. No reasonable rules could be set in place to guarantee someone is not a sockpuppet/dupe/ reincarnation. Untill someone makes a mistake, we are left with good old fashion gut feelings and logic. Most of the time it becomes abundantly clear who has the need, reason, and motivation for using supporting sockpuppets. Oftentimes, it's so obvious, it's cringe-worthy, and I'm embarrassed for them. We know the lengths people are willing to go in an attempt to have people believe in their BS, and for no other reason than some sick twisted sickness they have.
I'll say again. By even having this thread, we give clues to mischief makers as to how they can evade detection. So I'm not going to say what tools I/We have.
Gut and experience is a part of it. Sometimes we see a new user and KNOW it's a sock and ban him/her. We may not have proof and we may not even know which ne'er do well it is. But fortunately we have that authority from Wizard. It's used with discretion, including by wizard.
Quote: BNMOATNo reasonable rules could be set in place to guarantee someone is not a sockpuppet/dupe/ reincarnation. Until someone makes a mistake, we are left with good old fashion gut feelings and logic.
I just wish* I didn't have to see decent contributing members frequently suspended because they cannot resist taking the bait of other clever members. I also wish junk threads could be allowed to decay gracefully instead of getting bumped all the time by said Decent members.
"I just wanted to challenge his nonsense = I just bumped his thread to the longest and most read"
"I blocked him and ignored his nonsense = I helped to bury that thread"
It's not rocket science.
*I also wish for peace on Earth and an end to disease. I'll settle for 1/3
Quote: kewljI am asking Wizard to reconsider the policy of allowing VPN's in the name of transparency, fairness and truth.
I don't think there is an easy way to screen for that. If there is, I am not aware of it.
Quote: WizardI don't think there is an easy way to screen for that. If there is, I am not aware of it.
Dan Druff does it on his forum. I don't know how it works but he is able to detect when someone is using a VPN and requests that they unmask for a post or two to show their real IP and location, to be sure it is not a sock. I am not sure he applied this to every account but he does with the ones suspected of being sockpuppets.
Maybe the technology is different between the forums, but since Dan Druff is a member here, I will ask him to weigh in here or possible contact you privately.
Quote: kewljMaybe the technology is different between the forums, but since Dan Druff is a member here, I will ask him to weigh in here or possible contact you privately.
I'd be happy to hear from him.
I check IP addresses at a few info sites and SOME are clearly flagged as VPNs or proxies. But many that are vpns are not flagged as such. For those, I'm not aware of any authoritative test that would flag every VPN. So, I'd value the training too.Quote: WizardI'd be happy to hear from him.
Quote: WizardI don't think there is an easy way to screen for that. If there is, I am not aware of it.
I think many sights have gone to a Facebook/Twitter/Microsoft login. Not sure how that works, but it must do something.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I think many sights have gone to a Facebook/Twitter/Microsoft login. Not sure how that works, but it must do something.
ZCore13
Well the one I mentioned hasn't. It is a log-on same as here, although different software and that may be the difference. Also Dan Druff, who hopefully will weigh in here, has been working with/on forums for 20 years and has stated he is quite knowledgeable about this stuff.
Maybe it can't translate to here, with this software and setup. I have no idea. Was just a thought about how to get a grip on the sockpuppet problem that seems to be increasing (from my perspective).
I'm not sure how easy it is, but companies like Netflix do this. It's not foolproof and there are workarounds, but it would cut down on some of the sockpuppet accounts. I think it was probably better when people thought their VPN was fooling the sockpuppet task force.Quote: WizardI'd be happy to hear from him.
It is indeed an inexact science to detect them, but it's not as hard as being portrayed out here. I have a way to automatically detect most of them. In fact, in a few instances when my forum was "under attack" by formerly banned users repeatedly signing back up, I actually shut down all new signups from suspected VPNs for awhile.
The biggest problem is that you get the occasional false positive, so it's not something I recommend doing long term, unless you have a method in place to deal with that. (I gave the user denied signup a way to contact me in case he was falsely detected to be using a VPN.)
But in general, my method is not to inspect IPs until there's a problem. So if someone is suspected of being a fake account or sock, I look at the IP. If it's a VPN/proxy, I tell them I will need to see their real IP address, and that they are going to need to login from their home or work IP, and not a cell phone or from Starbucks.
Once I see that, I save their real IP and tell them they can return to the VPN.
Yes, I realize someone could go to a friend's house or a business with an open Wifi and satisfy my requirement, but at least I'll have their approximate geographic location, which is already a big clue, because you can rule out a lot of possibilities. For example if "John" is suspected of being a sock of a guy named "Henry", I can be fairly certain that John isn't the same person as Henry if John's location is 3000 miles away from Henry's.
None of this is foolproof, but most forum trolls aren't expert hackers. Usually if you demand a "real" home/work IP, and know how to identify one, then you will know a lot more, and it will be harder for people using socks to get away with it.
Anyway, it's not easy, but it's not particularly difficult, either.
I will say that, in my opinion, it's rather foolish to get away with letting a suspected sock hide behind a VPN. If you see that, you should at least force them to very briefly unmask. But I won't tell Mike how to run his forum.
Quote: DanDruffBut in general, my method is not to inspect IPs until there's a problem.
So if someone is suspected of being a fake account or sock, I look at the IP.
Suspected by whom?
Are all such suspicions investigated?
Quote: OnceDearCheers BNMOAT.
I'll say again. By even having this thread, we give clues to mischief makers as to how they can evade detection. So I'm not going to say what tools I/We have.
Gut and experience is a part of it. Sometimes we see a new user and KNOW it's a sock and ban him/her. We may not have proof and we may not even know which ne'er do well it is. But fortunately we have that authority from Wizard. It's used with discretion, including by wizard.
I just wish* I didn't have to see decent contributing members frequently suspended because they cannot resist taking the bait of other clever members. I also wish junk threads could be allowed to decay gracefully instead of getting bumped all the time by said Decent members.
"I just wanted to challenge his nonsense = I just bumped his thread to the longest and most read"
"I blocked him and ignored his nonsense = I helped to bury that thread"
It's not rocket science.
*I also wish for peace on Earth and an end to disease. I'll settle for 1/3
Quote: FTBIncidentally, had some regulars here not responded to that “other” thread when it debuted back in 2019, it probably would have faded away into obscurity back then and before it made it to the overly long thread it is now.
But because the OP got the attention and/or validation OP apparently craved, you can now fast forward to today where some are borderline obsessed over OP and/or OP’s threads across multiple forums.
You reap what you sow, as the saying goes. But it might not be too late. I don’t know. Consider this post “advice.”
Quote: DanDruffBut in general, my method is not to inspect IPs until there's a problem. So if someone is suspected of being a fake account or sock, I look at the IP. If it's a VPN/proxy, I tell them I will need to see their real IP address, and that they are going to need to login from their home or work IP, and not a cell phone or from Starbucks.
Thanks Dan! What site do you prefer to check an IP? What can you tell me about this IP: 72.193.121.71, for example?
Plug that in here:Quote: WizardThanks Dan! What site do you prefer to check an IP? What can you tell me about this IP: 72.193.121.71, for example?
https://iplocation.com/
Quote: DanDruff
I will say that, in my opinion, it's rather foolish to get away with letting a suspected sock hide behind a VPN. If you see that, you should at least force them to very briefly unmask. But I won't tell Mike how to run his forum.
Thanks for weighing in Dan Druff. Just curious, how many (approximate) members at your forum are using a VPN ?
It tells us that some Math Nerd was located on Via Della Amore between Plaza Navona & via Toscana using Cox Communications 🤓Quote: WizardThanks Dan! What site do you prefer to check an IP? What can you tell me about this IP: 72.193.121.71, for example?
There are actually only 10 real members. 😂Quote: kewljThanks for weighing in Dan Druff. Just curious, how many (approximate) members at your forum are using a VPN ?
Quote: AxelWolfThere are actually only 10 real members. 😂
I don't know about that, but I was trying to draw out the number of members are using VPN's right now on his forum, because the answer is 1. And that same "1" is on this forum, one of several on this forum, but, in reality, they are all connected. :)
And when you think about that, you have to ask why? You mentioned your need for VPN's in your online gambling. That makes sense. But why does someone need to use a VPN on a message board. The only legitimate reason I have heard is if they are from a country like China or North Korea, Russia or whatever.
Most of us here are from the US or Canada with some other international locations mixed in. Even those of us that have concerns about privacy in real life (mostly against the casino industry), because we are advantage players, there is no need to mask IP addresses on a forum. The only people masking IP addresses are up to NO GOOD. They are doing so to hide sockpuppetry or to hide that they are not where they say they are, not matching up with any back story or claims.
Quote: kewljThe only people masking IP addresses are up to NO GOOD. They are doing so to hide sockpuppetry or to hide that they are not where they say they are, not matching up with any back story or claims.
Very Often, but not necessarily.
Let's say a member habitually uses the internet from a corporate or government network which has strict network use rules. She frequently connects to a forum and the admins identify the connection as operated by say, a specific Walgreens. Walgreens see that an employee is spending hours on a forum and get angry. Both MIGHT intercept the traffic or analyse it later.
She might get disciplined by Walgreens management or she may get harassed at her place of work by a forum moderator. So. Two valid, if weak reasons to use a vpn: To hide destination site from her employer and to hide her employer from destination site admins.
Of course, those are peripheral reasons and I can see no reason why she would need to use a vpn when on her own mobile connection, at any time.
I Like Dan's process. Thanks Dan. There's a few sites that give different and copious info on an IP. Some have a VPN? Yes/no marker. Not an exact science, though.
Quote: kewljThe only people masking IP addresses are up to NO GOOD. They are doing so to hide sockpuppetry or to hide that they are not where they say they are, not matching up with any back story or claims.
Not always true. One person was for his perception of GOOD.😉
The sign said, "please dont feed the animals." They ignored the sign and got eatin. The sign shouldve said "if you feed the animals, they will eat you."
The only time I might log into the forums while using a VPN is when I happened to be playing at an online casino from my main devices. However, I guess there are some reasons people might want to use a VPN on the forums.Quote: kewljI don't know about that, but I was trying to draw out the number of members are using VPN's right now, because the answer is 1.
And when you think about that, you have to ask why? You mentioned your need for VPN's in your online gambling. That makes sense.
But why does someone need to use a VPN on a message board. The only legitimate reason I have hear is if they are from a country like China or North Korea, Russia or whatever.
Most of us here are from the US or Canada with some other international locations mixed in. Even those of us that have concerns about privacy in real life (mostly against the casino industry), because we are advantage players, there is no need to mask IP addresses on a forum. The only people masking IP addresses are up to NO GOOD. They are doing so to hide sockpuppetry or to hide that they are not where they say they are, not matching up with any back story or claims.
Quote: OnceDearVery Often, but not necessarily.
Let's say a member habitually uses the internet from a corporate or government network which has strict network use rules. She frequently connects to a forum and the admins identify the connection as operated by say, a specific Walgreens. Walgreens see that an employee is spending hours on a forum and get angry. Both MIGHT intercept the traffic or analyse it later.
She might get disciplined by Walgreens management or she may get harassed at her place of work by a forum moderator. So. Two valid, if weak reasons to use a vpn: To hide destination site from her employer and to hide her employer from destination site admins.
Of course, those are peripheral reasons and I can see no reason why she would need to use a vpn when on her own mobile connection, at any time.
I Like Dan's process. Thanks Dan. There's a few sites that give different and copious info on an IP. Some have a VPN? Yes/no marker. Not an exact science, though.
Funny, you should use the example of Walgreens and the pronoun "she". LoL. I am sure very random. :/
Quote: AxelWolfThe only time I might log into the forums while using a VPN is when I happened to be playing at an online casino from my main devices. However, I guess there are some reasons people might want to use a VPN on the forums.
Sir, no one is accusing YOU of anything here. YOU are good. No need to defend anything. We all know what and who we are talking about here.
Quote: kewljI don't know about that, but I was trying to draw out the number of members are using VPN's right now on his forum, because the answer is 1. And that same "1" is on this forum, one of several on this forum, but, in reality, they are all connected. :)
And when you think about that, you have to ask why? You mentioned your need for VPN's in your online gambling. That makes sense. But why does someone need to use a VPN on a message board. The only legitimate reason I have heard is if they are from a country like China or North Korea, Russia or whatever.
Most of us here are from the US or Canada with some other international locations mixed in. Even those of us that have concerns about privacy in real life (mostly against the casino industry), because we are advantage players, there is no need to mask IP addresses on a forum. The only people masking IP addresses are up to NO GOOD. They are doing so to hide sockpuppetry or to hide that they are not where they say they are, not matching up with any back story or claims.
It is more than just the countries you listed. There is a vast swath of the world that you cannot access both, this and WOO legally without a VPN. Basically any country in which gambling is illegal (which also tend be the countries that censor the internet) you cannot legally accesses (and this site) WOO without a VPN.
And, by population (and area) this is a not insignificant portion of the world for those that travel a lot.
