player321
player321
Joined: Aug 2, 2018
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August 2nd, 2018 at 2:17:14 AM permalink
Hello Everyone,

I have never posted on a website forum so this is my very first posting ever.

Preface: I started playing at Las Vegas USA casino a based on the recommendation from the Wizard of Odds webpage. I have always used Wizard of Odds for credible recommendations and I will continue to do so; for I have nothing against the website personally and I do appreciate all the effort the staff puts into providing players with valid information regarding credible casinos. With this being said here is my dilemma ....Sorry for the lengthiness...

I, like many players, pride myself on reading the fine prints, bonus requirements, and all other pertinent information that I need to know prior to playing at a casino. Yet, there is so much content to read you are bound to miss something (I totally did). In addition, I send in all required paperwork to validate my account ahead of time to avoid this in the even I win. I've played a significant amount of money at Las Vegas USA over some months without winning. This time around, I deposited $25 and used a 200% bonus plus 10 free spins with a 30x playthrough and max withdrawal $10,000 and I finally won $2200. I requested a withdrawal of $1600 which was declined. Not understanding why, I emailed them for an explanation and while waiting for a response, I decided to look back to see if I did something I did wrong...Here is where it gets crazy...Sigh

Under each bonus is "said bonus'" specific bonus terms and conditions. Yet, if you scroll all the way down there is a link to the ďTerms and Conditions for all Bonuses." I admit I didnít click on it because it seemed redundant to read the same thing twice. I trusted that I had all I the terms and conditions for the bonus I was using bonus terms and conditions they provided. Man oh man was I wrongÖ After combing to a plethora of content under the Terms and Conditions for all Bonuses, here is what I found:

For any deposit bonus coupon from 250% or more, the maximum allowed withdrawal is the sum of 20 times the deposit amount (Maximum cash out allowed will be $5,000.00 in all cases and depend on player class, based on a deposit amount of $250.00, unless stated differently for the specific promotion), and 20 times, the deposit amount, when the bonus granted represents less than 249% (Maximum cash out allowed will be $10,000.00 in all cases and depend player class, based on a deposit amount of $500.00, unless stated differently for the specific promotion). Once the wagering requirements have been met a player may request their funds. Please note if a player continues to play at any point prior to their cash out any additional winnings will be voided and forfeit. (WTH?)

So basically the content represented under the individual bonus is misrepresented to have players think they can deposit, play, possibly win and then withdraw up to $10,000 but in reality, they can only withdraw 20 times their deposit. So if you deposit $25 and use a bonus under 249% you can only withdraw a max of $500. The $10,000 max withdraw is based on someone depositing $500 in one deposit. In addition, if a player hits a random jackpot, they wonít be able to withdraw the full amount if their deposit (20x) is not enough to cover it. They purposely leave this information out of the individual bonus terms and conditions represented under the bonus. They put just the bare minimum information under the individual bonus terms and conditions and bank on players not finding the additional bonus withdrawal restrictions. PLEASE BE AWAREÖ Iím sure Wizard of Odds was not aware of this prior to making their recommendation so Iím making this information available so that everyone can make an informed decision before playing at this casino. If you are not a high roller who can deposit large amounts, your withdrawal winnings will be limited. Iím still waiting on a response from them but Iím more than sure they will throw a link to the shady Terms and Conditions for all bonuses for me to refer to. Iím never playing there again.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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August 2nd, 2018 at 2:59:31 AM permalink
Quote: player321

Hello Everyone,

I have never posted on a website forum so this is my very first posting ever.

...

Iím still waiting on a response from them but Iím more than sure they will throw a link to the shady Terms and Conditions for all bonuses for me to refer to. Iím never playing there again.

Hi Player321, Welcome to the forum and thanks for your long and clear first post.
As you've discovered, the terms and conditions of some ( I'd say most ) online casinos will contain very onerous wagering requirements to any bonuses that they give. What you describe is pretty typical. These bonuses are very much about 'free play' and they are damned if they are going to let us walk away with 'free money'.
But it can be done. On my very first day of online Blackjack, I turned my initial deposit of £100 + £150 Bonus into £6,000+ To beat the wagering requirements I had to play through some £45,000. But I succeeded and DID cash out £6,000. In later sessions I turned that into £18,000 and then £1,300
$:o|
It took luck. but it can be done.
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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August 2nd, 2018 at 3:35:28 AM permalink
Well, quite frankly, I don't know if this verbiage is typical or if the results are typical.
But there are certain things to be aware of:
If you are in Vegas and the add says 'not an agency' then the woman is indeed from an agency.
If you are not in Vegas but playing at an Indian Casino, then the thing to remember is that all disputes are settled in Tribal Courts with Tribal Lawyers and Tribal Judges.
If you instead opt to gamble in CyberSpace, there does not seem to be even a 'tribal court' just some sort of public shaming of deadbeat casinos.
If you opt to compete for one of these 'deposit a penny but withdraw up to a million dollars' deals, then you are a fool as is everyone else who thinks its ever going to happen. The fact that such fools can be further divided into Simple Fools and Damned Fools may be interesting to you: Simple Fools are those who read all that fine print and believe it whereas Damned Fools are those who don't even bother to read ALL the fine print.

So I guess I am welcoming you to the forum by calling you a Damned Fool. Maybe I just got out of bed on the wrong side this morning or something but what on earth did you think was ever going to happen when you were wading thru all that fine print. Did it ever occur to you that no casino is going to let you walk away with that bonus money. The casino says 'bonus money' or 'winnings but what they really mean is "freeplay". In other words 'bonus money' means 'from an agency'. Got it?
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 2nd, 2018 at 3:48:16 AM permalink
Welcome to the forum.

So the rules state you can only withdraw 20x the $25 you sent them. You asked for $1600, not $1000. Have you re-asked for $1000? When you do, ask what happens to the other $1200 (you said you won $2200). If they say you will never be able to have it then of course that is the last time you deal with that casino. If they say you can cash out another $1000 after waiting a month then do so.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Thanks for this post from:
player321Torghatten
August 2nd, 2018 at 4:52:00 AM permalink
Welcome, Player 123.

I'm not a bonus expert like the Wizard, so this is ONLY my opinion. (Disregard that I'm in green for the moment, in other words.)

Wow, I'm having a hard time with that 20x deposit cap. If they have any paytable anywhere on the site, slots or tables, where you can win more than 20x your bet and bet $25, that would, IMO, be fraudulent. Scale.it down from there: if a slot has a $5 bet and you can win more than 100x on a spin, that's fraud, because they will never pay the full amount.

The cap is onerous enough, and definitely no reason to return: have they limited your loss to some maximum? Doubtful, but I haven't read the T&C.

I would.suggest you keep all details of your play, correspondence, make a memo of what got said during any phone calls, and get readable screen shots of all the T&C's applicable both to the general play, and the bonus you redeemed.

I'll bring this thread to the attention of the.Wizard, though he may see it on his own, and ask him to look at what you've said so far. If there's something to be pursued, he'll want all the details from you.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
player321
player321
Joined: Aug 2, 2018
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August 2nd, 2018 at 4:58:37 AM permalink
Soopoo,

I played some of my winnings back and requested to withdraw $1600 of the $2200. Of the $1600 I requested to withdraw, they are only reviewing $500 - the $50 from the bonus for a total of $450 and they removed the rest of my winnings from my account as if they never existed. I'm still waiting on them to respond back to me via email. There is no phone number to reach them. On any deposit, you are only allowed to withdraw 20x the deposit amount if you use a bonus with your deposit. All other funds that you win they remove from your account. They hide their unethical behavior well within their shady content. I really hope Wizard of Odds rethinks recommending this casino. I'm so livid right now because I was going to use my winnings to pay bills for I just lost my job unexpectedly. So imagine my surprise when I saw they declined my withdrawal requests. Then to add insult to injury, they had the audacity to request the $450 for me and instead of approving it right then and there, they submitted it like a new request to be reviewed for approval. The $450 still has not been approved for payment.
player321
player321
Joined: Aug 2, 2018
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August 2nd, 2018 at 5:31:08 AM permalink
Beachbumbabs,

Thank you for bringing attention to my post. I have not heard from them yet and I will keep you updated on their response. I'm also confused about this part of their Bonus Terms and Conditions ..."All balances exceeding the maximum cash out (MCO) will be voided and deducted from the player's account. Once the wagering requirements have been met a player may request their funds. Please note if a player continues to play at any point prior to their cash out any additional winnings will be voided and forfeit." Like seriously...This is horrible. Basically, they are saying that once you win 20x your deposit, you are supposed to stop playing and cash out. If you don't any additional winnings are voided and will be removed which is basically what they did to my winnings. There is nowhere on the site to track your gameplay so how are you to know the exact moment you hit 20x your deposit. That is a lose-lose scenario. What if the win I get puts me a dollar over the 20x my deposit, then what. This is outrageous. There is absolutely no way I would have played at this casino ever had I known this. It's like throwing my money away.

When I initially requested the $2200 for withdrawal, I saw that they split the request into to three requests because of the $2000 weekly withdrawal limit. So I canceled the withdrawal, took some money out to use to continue playing and resubmitted my request for the $1600. After you just mentioned a paytable, this prompted me to go on their website and look for one. To no avail of course. But I did find this.."Disclaimer: Please be aware that cancelled withdrawals do not apply towards promotional offers." What does this mean...Im so confused and this casino has a "Certificate of Integrity" from Hastings International. Here is the link to the p?i=143 How is this possible?

Here is the link to their Bonus Terms and Conditions: Scroll all the way to the bottom and look at number six.
vegas
vegas
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
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August 2nd, 2018 at 6:04:10 AM permalink
Ya those terms stink. Any casino with limits on a withdrawal should be avoided. So if you deposited 25 dollars that means you could only withdraw 25 X 20 = 500 dollars. You also had to play that deposit money through 30 times. So you deposit 25 X 30 = 750. Once you have played 750 dollars in bets you can then withdraw any amount left UP to 500 dollars. It does not matter if you balance is 5,000 dollars after play through you can still only withdraw 500. The rest of the money goes back to the casino or just disappears.

When the rules state .."Disclaimer: Please be aware that cancelled withdrawals do not apply towards promotional offers. That means you can't cancel a withdrawal and then take another bonus using this money.

So you can play as long as you want with the money but you will never be able to take out more than 500 dollars on you 25 dollar deposit. If chat support can't tell you how much you have left to play to meet the 30X play through amount then you have to do it yourself as you play. Once you have met the play through AND get up 500 dollars you should quit as you have maxed out and stand a good chance of seeing your balance go down due to negative games if you continue to play.

Terrible rules and don't ever deposit there again. There are much safer places to play.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
player321
player321
Joined: Aug 2, 2018
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August 2nd, 2018 at 6:06:33 AM permalink
FleaStiff,

Please accept this as my declination to your welcoming me. I typically don't bother responding to simpletons like yourself but I feel this needs to be addressed because the tone of your post was negative and unwarranted. You could have expressed your opinion like an adult, but that mishap of you getting out of bed on the wrong side must have thrown off your equilibrium because you clearly missed where I said I didn't read all that fine print because the bonus I was using had its requirements already listed under the bonus so I thought it would be redundant to read the fine print located on a different page because I trusted it would be the same information; which should have been but it was not. Do the world a favor and go back to bed, don't get out on either side...just lay there and figure out how to be a better person because you wear misery well. In addition, learn some decorum and focus your energy on learning to effectively communicate in an informal manner like an adult with an appropriate tone. What I will say is this...I can deduce from your response that your typed words are simply who you are and you somehow have convinced yourself that speaking to people in that manner makes you a big boy ... Unfortunately, it does not. It just makes you appear to be a miserable bully behind a computer. Please don't be a recalcitrant little keyboard bully, just leave my thread, per my request, if you have no intentions of behaving yourself. That is all. Thank you and have a wonderful rest of the day in bed pondering........
VCUSkyhawk
VCUSkyhawk
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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August 2nd, 2018 at 6:08:45 AM permalink
Is this casino advertised on either this site or Wizard of Odds?
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.

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