Discussion II about the Suspension List
Quote: RSQuote: boymimboQuote: Mission146My issue with that standard is that anything said about another person could be libelous under that definition.
It would be libellous if (a) false and (b) potential to be damaging. If I called a member something libellous I would be banned. If I knew the identity of the member and it was reasonably public and could be damaging (notwithstanding public figures) it would be libellous. Calling SOOPOO a criminal for example would probably be libellous because there is enough information on this forum to identify him. Calling EvenBob the same might not be because there is no idea for the public to figure out who he is. From the content of his posts I can be pretty positive that he is an older fellow living somewhere in Michigan that is not Detroit, but he just as easily generated a persona where he is actually a 24 year old woman living in Poland.
But I don't think WoV (just like Facebook) could be held legally accountable. This has been confirmed in section 230(c):of federal law and confirmed in Sedan v AOL or Barrett v Rosenthal.
Nonetheless the forum standards hold us to a higher standard than libel. I didn't see anything in the thread as being libellous to darkoz as there is no reasonable way to discern Identity. Even if darkoz's identity was known, he could only be charged with libel if his story was false and negligently so.
Agreed.
I always thought DarkOz’s identity was known (like Wizard, Eliot, mendelson, etc.). Is that not the case?
Would be nice if you apologized to Wiz and T for lumping them with that clown.😁
Quote: FleaStiffI always wonder where the new money comes from?
Mission Impossible 23
Quote: RS
I always thought DarkOz’s identity was known (like Wizard, Eliot, mendelson, etc.). Is that not the case?
My understanding is his identity is more or less discoverable to anyone who wants to know. I don’t think he’s used his last name here, though I could be wrong.
The subject matter of the issue being the daughter’s fiancé, and perhaps to a lesser extent, the daughter: Even knowing DarkOz’ identity does not necessarily provide any information as to those two. His daughter might not even share his last name, after all, she was married once or may even have taken her mother’s name. The daughter has also allegedly read the thread, and assuming that’s true, could protest any mention of herself she deems unfair to Wizard or ownership.
As far as the fiancé, without knowing any of the people on a personal level already, there’s really no way to identify the fiancé based on the story. The fiancé is also the only person against whom an unequivocal accusation is being made. DarkOz has stated his belief the daughter had no prior knowledge, or even any knowledge after the event prior to having already left the fiancé. Simply put: he’s not really accusing her of anything other than bad decision making,
Quote: FleaStiffI always wonder where the new money comes from?
Same place it does in any other religion cult.
the link to his resignation doesn't explain WHY:
http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/401/220/#post103039
Quote: Mission146My understanding is his identity is more or less discoverable to anyone who wants to know. I don’t think he’s used his last name here, though I could be wrong.
The subject matter of the issue being the daughter’s fiancé, and perhaps to a lesser extent, the daughter: Even knowing DarkOz’ identity does not necessarily provide any information as to those two. His daughter might not even share his last name, after all, she was married once or may even have taken her mother’s name. The daughter has also allegedly read the thread, and assuming that’s true, could protest any mention of herself she deems unfair to Wizard or ownership.
As far as the fiancé, without knowing any of the people on a personal level already, there’s really no way to identify the fiancé based on the story. The fiancé is also the only person against whom an unequivocal accusation is being made. DarkOz has stated his belief the daughter had no prior knowledge, or even any knowledge after the event prior to having already left the fiancé. Simply put: he’s not really accusing her of anything other than bad decision making,
My daughter never had my last name. She went under her mothers name.
Quote: 100xOddswhat exactly caused ibeatyouraces to perma-resign?
the link to his resignation doesn't explain WHY:
http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/401/220/#post103039
That was a really long time ago. I believe it was something really trivial.
If you look back in this thread, I think I posted the reason way back when it happened. I think you had asked then as well.
ZCore13
Quote: 100xOddswhat exactly caused ibeatyouraces to perma-resign?
When the Wiz sold the biz, IBYA went
and tediously, one by one, deleted
about 5000 old posts. And disappeared.
When he came back, he denied it was
him that did the deleting, he claimed
he was 'hacked'. So whenever anybody
brought it up from then on and said he
did it, he would get furious with them.
I think he left for good because he
got sick of it.
Quote: EvenBobWhen the Wiz sold the biz, IBYA went
and tediously, one by one, deleted
about 5000 old posts. And disappeared.
When he came back, he denied it was
him that did the deleting, he claimed
he was 'hacked'. So whenever anybody
brought it up from then on and said he
did it, he would get furious with them.
I think he left for good because he
got sick of it.
Didn't have to be tedious, he could have written a program to do that automatically. Such things are possible (I brought this up back then too).
Quote: FleaStiffWell, the various Wizards may have over-ruled BBB's warnings and ended her temporary closing of the offending thread but I still think my use of the term 'quick sand' was appropriate. Remember...quick sand engulfs everyone, good or bad.
I live in NY
We dont have quicksand
I'm a new user so I'm only interested in gambling topics (which seem to be about 50% of all posts). I'm an old timer on other boards with other topics, however, and usually once the original posters circle the site specific block for a year or two they organically begin to discuss other topics. The trouble is, once the users move away from the subject that they all love and which brought them together in the first place, the human differences between them on other topics such as morals, ethics, religion and (God save us all) politics (the stuff your parents told you not to bring up when company was over) creates conflict and animosity (often spilling over to other threads). Then unpaid moderators have the thankless task of making a decision which will, at best, satisfy some of the users.
Am I in the ballpark here or was there some traumatic event in the site's middle years that's still reverberating into the present?
Mostly though I'd be interested in hearing about the site's Greatest Hits from the last 10 years (although obviously not on this thread).
I wasn’t here then but it’s good reading on how NOT to push systems and anti math voodoo on here.
Last I heard he was semi homeless living in an old motor home from the 70’s drifting from driveway to truckstop, stealing electricity as he can. Muttering something about being a big man once. Ended up like all system players do, broke.
Great writers like Teddys that don't post much anymore.
The Wiz moderating things mostly alone and doing a damn good job of it.
But there’s less left to discuss now.
Here's a screen shot of the forum main page from Feb 2010.
I believe the site and forum was originally created to talk about Las Vegas hotels and their gambling, eating and sleeping options. Not 100% sure on that though.
ZCore13
Tom just makes another movieQuote: FleaStiffI always wonder where the new money comes from?
Quote: RogerKintMKL and Jerry Logan going at it.
Great writers like Teddys that don't post much anymore.
The Wiz moderating things mostly alone and doing a damn good job of it.
And my favorite, Jimbo da Bimbo
Quote: GialmereTell me, (site) old timers as we approach the WOV 10 year anniversary, what was it like here the first year or two?
I joined in 2010. I have 21000 posts, most
of which were were made before 2013.
This was a very interesting place the
first couple of years, then like most
forums it got heavily moderated and
a lot of the best people wandered
away. It's a shadow now of what it
was, I rarely even post here anymore.
I go months without even looking in.
Quote: EvenBobI joined in 2010. I have 21000 posts, most
of which were were made before 2013.
This was a very interesting place the
first couple of years, then like most
forums it got heavily moderated and
a lot of the best people wandered
away. It's a shadow now of what it
was, I rarely even post here anymore.
I go months without even looking in.
This place needs a boost
I suggest all the AP's tell their AP stories
Follow my example
I guess it's true, there is a silver lining to everything.Quote: EvenBobI joined in 2010. I have 21000 posts, most
of which were were made before 2013.
This was a very interesting place the
first couple of years, then like most
forums it got heavily moderated and
a lot of the best people wandered
away. It's a shadow now of what it
was, I rarely even post here anymore.
I go months without even looking in.
Quote: gamerfreakThat was a really long time ago. I believe it was something really trivial.
If you look back in this thread, I think I posted the reason way back when it happened. I think you had asked then as well.
long time ago? suspension list says may 2018?
and I think I remember asking but I don't remember the answer.
looking thru the suspension list and spotting ibeatyouraces got me curious again.
Quote: FinsRuleSome posters were annoying but it was a more positive place.
But there’s less left to discuss now.
I think the forum may lose out on many potential new members who have interesting or valuable gambling ideas to discuss.
Why ?
Because right now when a potential new member looks over the forum , they see the 10 most active threads. That usually includes a 244 page thread about people being suspended from the forum , 350 pages of Nathan’s corner , and the Trump thread. Is that enticing as a forum I’d want to join if I were that new member ?
Quote: michael99000I think the forum may lose out on many potential new members who have interesting or valuable gambling ideas to discuss.
Why ?
Because right now when a potential new member looks over the forum , they see the 10 most active threads. That usually includes a 244 page thread about people being suspended from the forum , 350 pages of Nathan’s corner , and the Trump thread. Is that enticing as a forum I’d want to join if I were that new member ?
It's not. Definitely not.
Quote: darkozThis place needs a boost
I suggest all the AP's tell their AP stories
Follow my example
One thread that's a bunch of miscellaneous AP stories like another Nathan's Corner, a story broken into multiple installments like yours or something in between? I agree that it used to be much more about gambling and think it's a bummer that it's become less so.
Quote: 100xOddslong time ago? suspension list says may 2018?
.
There was another one before that one.
There were colorful gambling people
here, and experienced players. I won't
name names, we know who they were.
They were chased away, or got bored
or were banned. Now it's all prim
and proper and boring as hell here.
From 2006-2010 I was on Gamblers
Glen. No mods, it was the wild west.
I had 16000 posts there. Dang that
place had some smart and experienced
people, and some real jackasses.
But dang it was fun, I learned more
there about gambling than anywhere
else.
Seems like that's the way it is. You can have fun or you can have prim and proper, but you can't have both.Quote: EvenBobThere was another one before that one.
There were colorful gambling people
here, and experienced players. I won't
name names, we know who they were.
They were chased away, or got bored
or were banned. Now it's all prim
and proper and boring as hell here.
I don’t know how to keep the discussions on track better.
I’m going to Vegas again in June. I’d like it if there were more threads about the city in general, to help with trip planning.
Quote: 100xOddslong time ago? suspension list says may 2018?
and I think I remember asking but I don't remember the answer.
looking thru the suspension list and spotting ibeatyouraces got me curious again.
If you look at the very bottom of the suspension list, there are links to the previous 2 suspension lists. Both lists got to the max characters per post and had to be superceded.
Quote: FinsRuleThe Wizard makes gambling posts all the time about new games. Those threads die pretty quickly.
I don’t know how to keep the discussions on track better.
I’m going to Vegas again in June. I’d like it if there were more threads about the city in general, to help with trip planning.
True story. Most new gambling threads die with little or no replies.
Like the one I made a day or two ago
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/32318-online-casino-group-leaks-information-on-108-million-bets-including-user-details/
IMO you would lose even more regular posters if you snuffed out off topic threads.
Quote: gamerfreakTrue story. Most new gambling threads die with little or no replies.
Then, on the other hand, some very popular threads have been started by members who were suspended shortly after they started the thread. "Can You Beat a Chess Machine?" is one example. Even the Wizard participated, but no one now will be able to play shoshone's machine because he has been excommunicated. Another thread of his about the expected number of tosses of a coin to get HH and HT has had an enthusiastic following and many votes. Possibly prejudice against Native Americans and to the detriment of the forum.
Quote: netzerThen, on the other hand, some very popular threads have been started by members who were suspended shortly after they started the thread. "Can You Beat a Chess Machine?" is one example. Even the Wizard participated, but no one now will be able to play shoshone's machine because he has been excommunicated. Another thread of his about the expected number of tosses of a coin to get HH and HT has had an enthusiastic following and many votes. Possibly prejudice against Native Americans and to the detriment of the forum.
Those threads were started by a sock who we had to ban. It was a shame as he could have been a good member. Perhaps I'll try to revive the coin tossing thread myself.
Quote: WizardThose threads were started by a sock who we had to ban. .
'Had to ban'. Heaven forbid this place
gets livened up by a banned member,
we can't have that. Even if they're
behaving themselves and positively
contributing, they 'must be banned'.
This is why this place is half as interesting
as it used to be. Monitors patrolling the
halls 24/7. Better to have a boring orderly
place than an interesting lively one.
Quote: EvenBob'Had to ban'. Heaven forbid this place
gets livened up by a banned member,
we can't have that. Even if they're
behaving themselves and positively
contributing, they 'must be banned'.
This is why this place is half as interesting
as it used to be. Monitors patrolling the
halls 24/7. Better to have a boring orderly
place than an interesting lively one.
And yet the mods took hell (one even ended up resigning) when a sock supposedly contributed on here for a year ostensibly to scam other members
You arent advocating for that are you?
Quote: BozWhile everyone should be held to the same standard on the rules, the suspension of Teliot is another sad day for this forum.
Amazing the hold and damage that WoN continues to reap upon this forum. And now he has claimed another victim, a long term poster who is one of the most respected people in the gambling community. I get many have valid reasons for not liking business decisions he has made, but that doesn’t take away who he is. And he certainly wasn’t the only person to work for the Dark Side.
Who would blame Teliot if he never came back? No wonder some want that Black Eye on the forum no longer discussed. Somewhere WoN is sitting back laughing about this.
As a longstanding member Teliot must have known he was doxxing
He stated in one post that he had some association with the person(scammer) he was doxxing
It wouldn't surprise me if teliot was not also victimized by that person for him to throw suspensions to the wind like that
You kiddin? This place practically runs itself.Quote: EvenBob'Had to ban'. Heaven forbid this place
gets livened up by a banned member,
we can't have that. Even if they're
behaving themselves and positively
contributing, they 'must be banned'.
This is why this place is half as interesting
as it used to be. Monitors patrolling the
halls 24/7. Better to have a boring orderly
place than an interesting lively one.
Haven't even had a DI around here to put the boots to in over a year.
Quote: petroglyphYou kiddin? This place practically runs itself.
Running smoothly=Boring as toast
Quote: netzerThen, on the other hand, some very popular threads have been started by members who were suspended shortly after they started the thread. "Can You Beat a Chess Machine?" is one example. Even the Wizard participated, but no one now will be able to play shoshone's machine because he has been excommunicated. Another thread of his about the expected number of tosses of a coin to get HH and HT has had an enthusiastic following and many votes. Possibly prejudice against Native Americans and to the detriment of the forum.
I did the suspending. That's a WHOLE lot of unsubstantiated vitriol right there.
shoshone was a sock account for a past member who was banned several times now for very good cause.
People pick all kinds of names for different reasons. For you to suggest it had something to do with their handle is beyond ridiculous.
The information that shoshone was a sock has been available since the day he was discovered to be a sock. I suggest you look at the suspension list and/or the last few threads that person posted before you make such accusations in the future.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
Quote: netzerThen, on the other hand, some very popular threads have been started by members who were suspended shortly after they started the thread. "Can You Beat a Chess Machine?" is one example. Even the Wizard participated, but no one now will be able to play shoshone's machine because he has been excommunicated. Another thread of his about the expected number of tosses of a coin to get HH and HT has had an enthusiastic following and many votes. Possibly prejudice against Native Americans and to the detriment of the forum.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Quote: CrystalMathMethinks thou dost protest too much.
But he is from South Africa.
Quote: EvenBobRunning smoothly=Boring as toast
Yet here we are...
:-)
Quote: Boz1 name covers the early years.....Rob Singer...and all his socks. The first guy to get his a@@ handed to him for making impossible claims.
I wasn’t here then but it’s good reading on how NOT to push systems and anti math voodoo on here.
Last I heard he was semi homeless living in an old motor home from the 70’s drifting from driveway to truckstop, stealing electricity as he can. Muttering something about being a big man once. Ended up like all system players do, broke.
Hmmm... sounds like that is where the card counting forum member whose name rhymes with Ben Ding is gonna end up if the endless rants, empty threats, and delusional claims continue.
Quote: netzerbut no one now will be able to play shoshone's machine .
And somehow we will all find a way to go on with our lives regardless ..
Quote: michael99000I think the forum may lose out on many potential new members who have interesting or valuable gambling ideas to discuss.
Why ?
Because right now when a potential new member looks over the forum , they see the 10 most active threads. That usually includes a 244 page thread about people being suspended from the forum , 350 pages of Nathan’s corner , and the Trump thread. Is that enticing as a forum I’d want to join if I were that new member ?
Yes. This.
Sometimes seems like the threads of substance do not get the amount of replies that the threads with little to no substance do.
But what the hell do I know? I'm new here.
My meaningless suggestion: what if all the off topic threads are automatically excluded from the Recent Threads list but there's a link underneath that to them?
This may attract more new members looking for the threads on gambling which is what brought them here in the first place.
- give a warning first in both that thread AND via PM (in case he doesn't look at the thread again)
- in that warning, tell him what he did wrong and an example of what a better post may look like, including don't post something like that ever again
- also provide a link to the forum rules
Quote: michael99000And somehow we will all find a way to go on with our lives regardless ..
I’m not mentioning any names, but there are some people who would do well to read this fifty or so times. Maybe even make one of those new fangled vision boards to put on there and look at every morning.
Quote: michael99000And somehow we will all find a way to go on with our lives regardless ..
Yeah, being alive kinda demands that, ya know?
You can apply your statement to any situation,
so that makes it inherently meaningless.
Quote: 100xOddssuggestion about bans:
- give a warning first in both that thread AND via PM (in case he doesn't look at the thread again)
- in that warning, tell him what he did wrong and an example of what a better post may look like, including don't post something like that ever again
- also provide a link to the forum rules
As far as established/active members being suspended , I’d say 80% of those suspensions are due to the personal insult rule.
There is really no way around it. Any forum that facilitates discussion of topics like politics , or gambling discussions between APs/regular bettors and those who work for the casinos is going to get heated and go beyond just “I disagree with you “
You can warn and suspend and suspend even longer, it doesn’t deter it.
Quote: petroglyph
Haven't even had a DI around here to put the boots to in over a year.
There are some here. They keep pretty quiet.
