ROI versus Passline/comebet with odds

I have read in some craps books on proper betting that ROI is more important than a passline or comebets with odds. Basically this author is saying that making a lower house edge bet in craps is not as important as ROI. In my simple mind, I disagree with this because as soon as you put out a place bet on the 6 and on the next roll a 7 is rolled you lose, but as soon as you put out a comebet and a 7 is rolled you win and if that bet goes to number and you take even single odds, the edge of that bet is .87% versus the edge on the place bet on the 6 is 1.5%.

Am I wrong?

thank you for any comments

Quote: Want2Win

I have read in some craps books on proper betting that ROI is more important than a passline or comebets with odds. Basically this author is saying that making a lower house edge bet in craps is not as important as ROI. In my simple mind, I disagree with this because as soon as you put out a place bet on the 6 and on the next roll a 7 is rolled you lose, but as soon as you put out a comebet and a 7 is rolled you win and if that bet goes to number and you take even single odds, the edge of that bet is .87% versus the edge on the place bet on the 6 is 1.5%.

Am I wrong?

thank you for any comments
link to original post

Craps is a losing game unless you are getting promotional cash to offset the losses. What is your goal to play craps? I assume you want to have fun without losing too much on an typical session. Then make the bet that you find more fun.

Don't Pass has the lowest house edge, but some people don't find it fun to play that way.

The odds bet has no house edge. If you find it more fun to have twice the money on the line some fraction of the time, then take the odds. It won't affect your expected loss rate whether you take odds or not. It will be riskier to your bankroll, though. You might have bigger winning sessions and losing sessions.

You can reduce your risk and cost by taking odds if you reduce the size of your initial bet. If you like to have a max bet of $100 running, then make a $50 pass line bet and take 1x odds. This will be cheaper in the long run than making $100 place or pass line bets without odds.

When I play craps, I have a huge edge due to loss rebates. I just play the dark side and take 6x odds. This reduces the house edge on my total action to around a quarter percent. It hardly makes a difference whether the house edge is 1.52% or 0.27%. The loss rebates are worth 7-10% depending on the promotion term. The important thing is to optimize the loss rebate.

Thank you! That loss rebate is interesting. How does one go about getting that?

Quote: Want2Win

Thank you! That loss rebate is interesting. How does one go about getting that?
link to original post

You normally have to wait for the casino to offer a loss rebate promotion. Most B&M casinos never offer loss rebates. Some casinos will negotiate loss rebates for their biggest whales.

The Wizard has a page on 100% loss rebates, but the rebate I am offered is usually 10-20%.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/loss-rebate/
If you don't understand this article, then you probably shouldn't try loss rebates. You have to lose a lot to maximize loss rebates.

Online casinos offer loss rebates much more often than B&M casinos. B&M casinos can be easily scammed on loss rebates, so they are reluctant to offer them.

I've started out losing 10 PL bets in a row without any points. Seems like a cold run. I could lose an accumulated 50 bets that way in a few hours. I would have been better off betting the DP with triple odds in that scenario. Other times the dice are hot and betting cold will wipe me out. It's hard to predict which way it's going to go even after the 1st round of shooters. I find having a progression on the PL & PB 6 & 8 is the cheapest entry with the likeliest bigger returns if there's a hot streak or two to fire them up from time to time. I could expand to adding the PB 5 & 9 if I get far enough ahead. I'm not really into betting on the 4 & 10 at the tables because of the vig up front issue, but if I intend to throw 4's & 10's, it'd be good to run a hot progression on them as extra bets. Somebody else could throw a dozen 4's and missing out on that progression is a lot of FOMO for table limit action..

Thank you. Can you explain further what you mean by that ROI can be miss leading in craps?

Here's some videos from DiceData with results from 10 shooter sessions.
The Dolly results are almost a mirror image of the Molly results with more winning sessions and bigger losses on the Dolly side and more losing sessions and bigger wins on the Molly side. The HA is calculated expertly to the line bets only on Molly/Dolly sessions. Any outlier sessions are in the sub 0.2% range.

3 Point Dolly [ 1x Odds | $15 Min ] Craps Simulation


3 Point Molly [ 1x Odds | $15 Min ] Craps Simulation


Passline + 6 & 8 [ 1x Odds | $15 Min ] Craps Simulation

Quote: Want2Win

Thank you. Can you explain further what you mean by that ROI can be miss leading in craps?
link to original post

The original post was removed for spam.

Thanks!