Why Pro gamblers die broke

Worth a read if you're an AP or pro.

Part 1.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23588-the-reasons-why-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke

Part 2.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23673-card-player-columnist-breaks-down-reasons-why-poker-pros-fail-to-plan-for-their-future

Part 3.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23753-why-do-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke-part-3

Thank you for this post. I am not a poker pro, but I know many self-proclaimed poker pros who are already broke, or will be due to the reasons above. I'll pass this along. The best poker pro I know doesn't rake in the most money. However, he has the best life. He's retired and gets a healthy retirement pension. He has a house paid for. His health insurance is covered. He makes an average $100 to $200 a day playing poker at various poker rooms 3-4 times a week to pass the time. He even takes advantage of all the great senior discounts around Vegas for food/coffee/points, etc.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Worth a read if you're an AP or pro.

Part 1.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23588-the-reasons-why-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke

Part 2.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23673-card-player-columnist-breaks-down-reasons-why-poker-pros-fail-to-plan-for-their-future

Part 3.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23753-why-do-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke-part-3

Did it give any odds on Jewish Canadian poker players dying broke?

I’m superior to the laws of probability...

lol

Quote: AxelWolf

Did it give any odds on Jewish Canadian poker players dying broke?

Suspension needed, this is very hurtful.

I have been full time for about a year now so going broke is a real fear of mine. I don’t really care about the money, I live a pretty simple lifestyle and nobody else to support, I just don’t want to go get a job. I would hate to go back to that grind.

I don’t know too many FT gamblers, maybe about 10. I will say that out of those, I think maybe one or two play poker, and that’s just part of their game. For me, poker is my weak spot. I’m probably not very good at it but I like to play a cheap tournament every now and then. I think I appreciate it because it’s like a mental exercise. You can’t figure poker out like blackjack, it’s a mystery. Poker players have big egos. They brag about their wins and think they’re great and bitch and whine about how I can’t believe that guy called my reraise with XX offsuit. He’s a bad player, except that he won the hand. For me, I just don’t see how it’s possible to make money. The rake on the east coast is $8. If a guy goes all in preflop with $50 and I call $50, there is $100 in the pot. If I win on what we can assume was a 50/50 chance, I only win $42 on my $50. That just can’t hold up in the long run.

Quote: PokerGrinder

Suspension needed, this is very hurtful.

Jewish Canadian poker players have feeling? WOW, I'm learning a lot today.

No fear, I'm sure 3rd world Food poisoning will get you long before you go broke.

If not, I would give you a loan if need be, that's why I wanted to know the odds, that way I can plan for it.

Quote: AxelWolf

Jewish Canadian poker players have feeling? WOW, I'm learning a lot today.

No fear, I'm sure 3rd world Food poisoning will get you long before you go broke.

If not, I would give you a loan if need be, that's why I wanted to know the odds, that way I can plan for it.

Haha so you want to know when I’m going to go broke so you can back me?

Isn’t the guy who founded Poker Stars a Jewish Canadian? He certainly seemed like an honest guy.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Quote: AxelWolf

No fear, I'm sure 3rd world Food poisoning will get you long before you go broke.
.

That's no joke. I don't travel anymore
but I used to get poisoned on a regular
basis outside the US. I viewed any meal
with terror after awhile. Tony Bourdain
on his travel shows got sick all the time,
they just didn't show it much.

Probably should have replied in this thread.

Kind of pointless to lump AP into the poker world. I wonder how life financial failure in the straight job world compares to the poker world? Probably not much of an overall difference. Alot of poker players trick themselves into believing they have a winning game. Using examples like Stu Unger is sort of like using Judy Garland in the celebrity world. Yes, many people in all sorts of professions die broke due to drug addictions, poor financial planning, bad health choices, and a myriad of other things. One could write that article about doctor's, engineers, and just about any trade.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Worth a read if you're an AP or pro.

"but variance virtually guarantees that you won’t always beat the game."

How many really understand variance. Or
ignore it.

"Most of the specific causes discussed here will have one common factor, which is arrogance."

That covers most of it.

Quote: MaxPen

Yes, many people in all sorts of professions die broke due to drug addictions, poor financial planning, bad health choices, and a myriad of other things, including rogue boyfriend in-laws who rob you blind

I added something for you.

I would have guessed too many get used to staking a large portion of their assets in just few bets so always assume after a big fall there will be a big comeback.

Q: How do you get a professional poker player off your porch?
A: Pay him for the pizza.

Interesting article, but not even limited to poker. You could write the same article for pro athletes and higher end prostitutes and strippers to name two groups. I even see the same mentalities in my line of work. The advice I give the "kids" on one of my crews is similar to the article.

I think a lot of it all boils down to those that manage well in straight jobs and us misfits who do less so. Some people can sit at the desk, teach in the classroom. or work at the mill, day after day, year after year. They value security. They are worker bees. As was said in "Cocktail" about it, "There are workers and there are hustlers. The hustlers never work, and the workers never hustle."

Some people are smarter than average but cannot conform to that worker life. Poker players would be just one. Once you find you can earn without being a drone, life is nicer, much nicer. Not being regulated by a clock. Answer a call if you want to answer a call. No being groomed guy in the office being a pain in your neck.

But, that life takes maturity. Even if not regulated by a clock, you probably still have to be somewhere on time. Even with no dress code, you still have to dress correct. And the biggie--when your boss does not deduct for taxes to health insurance, you had flipping well better. That one ruins people on crews like mine, mostly the kids. Live like hogs in the fat house because they do not realize they need to take 40% or so right off the top for these things.

The article is right saying you have to save and diversify your income! Eventually the income swings will kill you. I probably should not say what a guy told me about my mentality there. Virtually every successful independent I have known has some other income to smooth the bumps and humps.

Otherwise as Rosenthal said, pro gambling is chicken or feathers.

Quote: Sandybestdog

For me, I just don’t see how it’s possible to make money. The rake on the east coast is $8. If a guy goes all in preflop with $50 and I call $50, there is $100 in the pot. If I win on what we can assume was a 50/50 chance, I only win $42 on my $50. That just can’t hold up in the long run.

I think you can make money playing poker.
I really got heavy into poker during the online glory days of full tilt and pokerstars.
I meticulously tracked all my live play over a 2 year period playing at tampa bay downs, Derby lane and local hard rock.
Did I make money? Nope. Lol. Didn't make jack
But
I did break even.
I feel I am a pretty good poker player but play maybe too tight and sometimes make some dumb calls or dumb all ins.
Are there much better poker players out there, of course, therefore with me breaking even, I believe you can make money.

Quote: terapined

I think you can make money playing poker.
I really got heavy into poker during the online glory days of full tilt and pokerstars.
I meticulously tracked all my live play over a 2 year period playing at tampa bay downs, Derby lane and local hard rock.
Did I make money? Nope. Lol. Didn't make jack
But
I did break even.
I feel I am a pretty good poker player but play maybe too tight and sometimes make some dumb calls or dumb all ins.
Are there much better poker players out there, of course, therefore with me breaking even, I believe you can make money.

Breaking even doesn't work when you have expenses. If you aren't winning 25K plus, you are not covering them.

I know lots of people who get by with advantage play, but I truly worry what will happen to them when they get older and are not as sharp and energetic.

Hopefully they are saving their raisins for Sundays.

Dying broke isn't all that different than dying with money. What matters most is not being in pain and alone.

Living without money. That can be tough thing to go through for a lot of people

I think it comes down to "quitting while ahead" which I keep writing here at the forum is an important component to winning at gambling, and many here seem to scoff at.

I suppose that when it comes to a "lifetime" of gambling (i.e. "pro" gambler) there is no real point at which you quit, so in a way, my theory proves itself by the fact of how most all pro gamblers die broke. If you never stop, you won't win.


As an anecdote aside, my Dad used to know Nick the Greek personally. He said that back then (in the '50s) Nick used to play heads or tails OVER THE PHONE for $5000. a toss, and he would pay or collect based on what the other trusted gambler at the other end of the phone line would tell him the outcome of the coin toss was. Now THAT'S serious gambling, and 5K in the '50s was like 500K today.

Nick the Greek died broke, playing for small stakes at the Bicycle Casino in Commerce, CA ("It's action, ain't it?")

Probably because they lived broke?

I thought it was common knowledge that a lot of purported poker pros are -EV gamblers, either because they win at poker but lose elsewhere, they win at poker but not enough to cover expenses (for tourney players), or they don't even have a positive expectation at poker in the first place.

Quote: MDawg

I think it comes down to "quitting while ahead" which I keep writing here at the forum is an important component to winning at gambling, and many here seem to scoff at.

I suppose that when it comes to a "lifetime" of gambling (i.e. "pro" gambler) there is no real point at which you quit, so in a way, my theory proves itself by the fact of how most all pro gamblers die broke. If you never stop, you won't win.

Well, you're objectively wrong, so idk what else to say, other than that.


Regardless, cardplayer.com is a terrible website because almost half of the page (horizontally, ~45%) is just nothing on the left and right of the main content. Therefore, I'm not reading it.


Anyway, it's not necessarily "fair" to lump APs in general with poker players. Certainly there are poker players who play with an advantage, but based on my antidotal evidence, there are plenty of poker players who claim they're "pro" even though they're basically just really like retards. Obviously there's a wide range of what an "AP" can be (in terms of earnings as well as skill/knowledge/non-retardessnes) just as there is in poker. Perhaps "most" APs will die broke, although I say that with the disclaimer that I'd say most APs are probably the ones who are grinding out tiny edges and/or exclusively vulturing slots making $50-100 a day. So yeah, if you're making $30k/yr by vulturing, you're basically already broke and aren't going to get "out" of it by continuing to make ~$30k/yr.


I'd say it's just like any other career in the sense that if you make a little bit of money, you're probably going to die broke. If you make a lot of money, you're probably not going to die broke.

Quote: MDawg

I think it comes down to "quitting while ahead" which I keep writing here at the forum is an important component to winning at gambling, and many here seem to scoff at.

I suppose that when it comes to a "lifetime" of gambling (i.e. "pro" gambler) there is no real point at which you quit, so in a way, my theory proves itself by the fact of how most all pro gamblers die broke. If you never stop, you won't win.


As an anecdote aside, my Dad used to know Nick the Greek personally. He said that back then (in the '50s) Nick used to play heads or tails OVER THE PHONE for $5000. a toss, and he would pay or collect based on what the other trusted gambler at the other end of the phone line would tell him the outcome of the coin toss was. Now THAT'S serious gambling, and 5K in the '50s was like 500K today.

Nick the Greek died broke, playing for small stakes at the Bicycle Casino in Commerce, CA ("It's action, ain't it?")

I think you are misinterpreting why many here scoff at the notion of.... "quitting while you are ahead." Most of us on this forum actually applaud people who quit while they are ahead(THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!). What do we scoff at is this, "is an important component to winning at gambling" <<<That usually indicates someone can overcome the HA, if only they had the discipline to quit while they are ahead. Oftentimes, system touts use in defense of their illegitimate system as to why it didn't work, or why their system will work, even when the math and logic clearly shows their system won't/can't work.

What if a gambler is never ahead, how do they now quit while they are ahead? How do you know how much to be ahead before you quit? $1, $3.50 $100, $1000, $3000 $10,001? If you do lose do you just get to start over at zero? When do you start over, the next hour, the next day, after midnight, after you leave the game, after you exit and reenter the casino, after you sleep(how long must you seep for)?
-----------------------------------------
Let's not put all forms of professional gambling in the same boat. You wouldn't put a day traders, a penny stock traders, binary option traders, real estate Traders, house flippers, bond traders, market investors, business investors, etc. all in the same boat would you?

While there are some similarities, such as being self employed, money management aspects, making your money in the casinos etc. Pro Poker really shouldn't be compared to other forums of professional gambling such as card counting, Slots/VP, vulturing, hole carding and other forms of professional gambling. I think it would be better if you compared to pool hustling than to other forums of pro gambling.

Poker is a game of skill where math logic and theory is needed. It's not easy to tell if somome actually has an over all advantage there are way too many factors involved, especially if we are talking higher levels of poker play where you are playing equally or better skilled players. How would even know if they have an advantage unless they track thousands of hours? Lets not forget things can change and those tracked hours can become meaningless. Someone better have enough tournament rounds in before they even begin to think they have an advantage. I think it's way overstated who and how many people are actually professional poker players.

Quote: MDawg

I suppose that when it comes to a "lifetime" of gambling (i.e. "pro" gambler) there is no real point at which you quit, so in a way, my theory proves itself by the fact of how most all pro gamblers die broke.

Please show some evidence "most all pro gamblers die broke". Of course, we might have to define what is a pro gambler, but that's a different topic. But for arguments sake, lets assume one has to have an advantage over all on whatever they are playing. And, they have to be getting more +EV action in than they are getting in on -EV action.

Quote:

Nick the Greek died broke

I'm sure lots of PRO GAMBLERS die broke.
Flipping quarters over the phone doesn't qualify in my book as pro gambling, just stupid because it sounds like some serious -EV, unless he himself had some type of con going on, if not, you should defiantly go broke at some pint doing that. Nick the Greek may have frequently played with an advantage at times while gambling and hustling, but it seems to me he was more of an action junkie gambler with a very serious gambling addiction, than he was a PROFESSIONAL gambler. Your quote ("It's action, ain't it?") helps backs my thoughts. Here is another thing he was quoted saying "The next best thing to playing and winning is PLAYING and LOSING." This does not seem like pro gambling to me.
---------------------------------------
This article about dead broke poker players obviously needs to point out all the poker players that die broke, because that's what it's all about. This kind of stuff probably gets way more attention than talking about winning poker players. I don't know think there are enough stats on actual real professional gamblers to make any valid claims either way. I have no doubt they probably have a higher risk dying broke than a normal 9 to 5er. But, lets not forget there are many successful poker players who are actually good enough and smart enough to never go broke.

Quote: MDawg

If you never stop, you won't win.

This is a horribly flawed statement.

If you wish, we can figure out what the lifetime of a pro gambler is and how many hours on average he could play. Then we can run some simulations of them never stopping while playing various standard games with a 3% edge. I would be willing to bet he almost always wins.

Gambling requires a lot of energy to do it right. You're already starting with a disadvantage (the house advantage). The other disadvantage is that the casino BANS you if you win consistently at any game of skill versus the casino.

It also takes a certain type of personality to even WANT to be a professional gambler. This personality is why the gambler wins, but also why he loses.

I am not interested in being a professional gambler. I have my own career, and business interests. But when I play, I tend to win. I've been banned from casinos for a couple years for BJ, because of winning. I know how to win. But it's not worth it to me to huddle over the green (or purple or whatever) felt for hours to make money off gambling, because I have so many other ways to make money that are more sure things. But when I do play, I take it very seriously, and have consistently won.

Professional gamblers mostly die broke because they don't stop, and they lose control. We are human beings, not robots, and we can't maintain control over something as emotionally challenging as gambling, forever, if we play too many hours a day. Nowadays, the money these poker players win seems like a huge sum, but most of them aren't even getting half of the money, because they were staked. And then they go lose it at something like Baccarat because they don't understand the game and think the money will come as easy as poker. (Think about that statement from "Rounders": "Why do you think the same five guys make it to the final table...at the World Series of Poker every single year?" - it's not true anymore, is it? Why - because of the quantity of new players coming in, the randomness of the game, the bad beats, skill alone doesn't guarantee you a winning spot.) There are a million reasons why pro gamblers die broke, but most of them do.

All this thread shows is it there are a
myriad of reasons why pro gamblers
might go broke. They lose their edge,
they get too old, they get too lazy,
and 14 other reasons. It's no different
than any other profession.

Quote: EvenBob

All this thread shows is it there are a
myriad of reasons why pro gamblers
might go broke. They lose their edge,
they get too old, they get too lazy,
and 14 other reasons. It's no different
than any other profession.

So, what's a trap for one person is a non-factor for another. Plan ahead, avoid what's a trap for you, make a bundle.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So, what's a trap for one person is a non-factor for another. Plan ahead, avoid what's a trap for you, make a bundle.

Better to look at the people still
playing and making money for
decades, than to concentrate on
the losers. Emulate the winners,
lose the losers.

The few bio's I've read of long
playing pro players are the same.
Start planning early. Buy a house,
make the payments, Pay your taxes,
put money in the bank and make
investments. How many players
do any of that.

Quote: EvenBob

The few bio's I've read of long
playing pro players are the same.
Start planning early. Buy a house,
make the payments, Pay your taxes,
put money in the bank and make
investments. How many players
do any of that.

Like I said, emulate the minority of call girls who make it. Invest so that you are not dependent on a big score. Then you win more, at least at poker. Eventually your investments are taking care of you. Which is not bad advice for anyone. Why I can't wait to get my rental filled.

My personal thought on this is they think the Gravy Train will keep on running until the day they die and they spend frivolously, not saving their money for when the Gravy Train breaks down on the tracks and then they end up begging people for money just to get by.

Quote: MDawg

You're already starting with a disadvantage (the house advantage).

YOU and others might be already starting with a disadvantage, but a professional gambler shouldn't be under normal circumstances. And that's what makes the difference between a Professional gambler and just a gambler. Yes I know there are circumstances where pro's start off in a -EV situation before they pull the trigger. I know that's not what you are referring to.

Its obvious to me that you don't know the difference between a gambler and a professional gambler.

Quote: MDawg

Professional gamblers mostly die broke because they don't stop, and they lose control.

I would agree that there may be many pro gamblers that end up losing control and then die broke. I want to see some proof that "Professional gamblers mostly die broke because they don't stop, and they lose control"

It seems to that this is something YOU believe to be true. As far as I'm concerned this is just something you made up.

Quote: MDawg

And then they go lose it at something like Baccarat because they don't understand the game and think the money will come as easy as poker.

That sounds like something B79 would say. I wonder where he is nowadays.

p.s. Thanks for not answering any question, showing any proof to back up your theories and not really saying anything new.

Quote: EvenBob

That's no joke. I don't travel anymore
but I used to get poisoned on a regular
basis outside the US. I viewed any meal
with terror after awhile. Tony Bourdain
on his travel shows got sick all the time,
they just didn't show it much.

Just make sure you have your voodoo dolls ready for me if I happen to get down any action.

Best plan I knew was my Army buddy who came out here in the late 80s. He used his first $5,000 in winnings to buy a house that he rented out. Every few months he would use equity and winnings to buy another house. He would rent to single casino employees month to month and in a few years had a mini empire with over a dozen rental properties. The rentals didn't provide much income but he planned on paying them off and selling one a year. Then 2005-2006 happened and his houses mostly doubled or tripled in value so he just sold them all and cashed out.

Quote: Sandybestdog

You can’t figure poker out like blackjack, it’s a mystery.

I can't emphasize enough, it's the basics you build a foundation on. In my opinion some of the best tools were three manuscripts, or "reports", that Mike Caro put together in the '80s. They followed a theme whereby you would go on a series of "Missions". Each "mission" would involve learning a fundamental part of the game and following up your lesson with a 2-3 hour session of playing and concentrating only on that particular lesson, thus burning it into your brain, one step at a time. Your last mission would typically be to objectively decide which mission you felt the least comfortable with, and repeating it. And then going through all missions again, any time you choose, as a way of life.

There were three reports. One on hold'em, one on stud, and then there was one called Poker Plan 3. I believe he published it in 1982. Incredibly strong. Don't let the age fool you, every bit as valid today. If you can only get your hands on it.

Quote: EvenBob

Better to look at the people still
playing and making money for
decades, than to concentrate on
the losers. Emulate the winners,
lose the losers.

I doubt if Dave Heyden or Cat Hulbert will die broke. I doubt if Chip Reese died broke.

Stuey, died broke. Loser.

Quote: AxelWolf

Its obvious to me that you don't know the difference between a gambler and a professional gambler.

p.s. Thanks for not answering any question, showing any proof to back up your theories and not really saying anything new.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23588-the-reasons-why-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke

If you’re a pro, you have a much higher probability of dying broke than members of other professions, including people who earn much less than you’re winning now. Of course, you may think it won’t happen to you, but that’s also what they thought before they got busted.

The Primary Cause

Most of the specific causes discussed here will have one common factor, which is arrogance.

Quote: MDawg

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/23588-the-reasons-why-so-many-poker-pros-die-broke

If you’re a pro, you have a much higher probability of dying broke than members of other professions, including people who earn much less than you’re winning now. Of course, you may think it won’t happen to you, but that’s also what they thought before they got busted.

The Primary Cause

Most of the specific causes discussed here will have one common factor, which is arrogance.

So that's your proof?

How much of a higher probability? Where is the data to back that up?

Who determines if they are a Pro or just just somome gambling all the time until they go broke and then die?


Talk to just about anyone about professional gambling and they will claim they have someone one in their family who's a professional gambler (usually an uncle). I'm sorry, but not everyone's uncle is a professional gambler. I have no doubt all the uncles think they are professional gamblers, or at least tell their family they are.

I can't argue that when it comes to poker players and some other forms of gambling ego plays a major factor in bad bankroll decision making. I don't have any ego when it comes to me vs the machines.

Quote: AxelWolf

So that's your proof?

How much of a higher probability? Where is the data to back that up?

Who determines if they are a Pro or just just somome gambling all the time until they go broke and then die?


Talk to just about anyone about professional gambling and they will claim they have someone one in their family who's a professional gambler (usually an uncle). I'm sorry, but not everyone's uncle is a professional gambler. I have no doubt all the uncles think they are professional gamblers, or at least tell their family they are.

I can't argue that when it comes to poker players and some other forms of gambling ego plays a major factor in bad bankroll decision making. I don't have any ego when it comes to me vs the machines.

Isn’t your nephew’s funny uncle a professional gambler though?

Boom! Roasted

Quote: RS

Isn’t your nephew’s funny uncle a professional gambler though?

Boom! Roasted

Apperantly you are not considered a profeninal gambler unless you die broke.

Quote: AxelWolf

Apperantly you are not considered a 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥 gambler unless you die broke.

what does the word 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥 mean? I'm not familiar with it

is that an AP who gets excited about getting free handfuls of napkins to take home from a fast food joint?.......................😄........................................

Quote: AxelWolf

if they are a pro or just 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐨𝐦𝐞 gambling all the time

also, what does 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐨𝐦𝐞 mean?................................ 😃........................😃

once you kick off who cares what is being said?
There are lots of professional gamblers, particularly if a young attractive female is listening and thought likely to believe his statements.

Social security was invented because most people who work a living their whole lives go broke.

I think the main point is that gambling pros EARN lots of money and still wind up broke

So the real question is do you prefer to always live paycheck to paycheck and then die broke or have a fantastic fantasy life of big money payoffs where you spend stupidly (losing it back to -ev games is just another form of spending it stupidly) and then die broke (with a slight and certainly higher chance of dying with a big bankroll more than the average 9-5 guy has of dying with a huge bankroll)

welcome back Flea. hope you're feeling better

Quote: lilredrooster

is that an AP who gets excited about getting free handfuls of napkins to take home from a fast food joint?.......................😄........................................

That's funny, because it's not far off
the mark. I hate the mentality that
comps engender. Anything you
supposedly get for 'free' from a
casino is considered an AP move.

To me it's a bottom feeder move,
and I've never liked it. I've never
had a players card and never will.
I don't use coupons either. Ever
really look at coupon users?
Shudder.

I think I got this revulsion to comps
from my early days (70's) of going
to Vegas. I was always seeing people
begging the PB for a pack of smokes,
or a comped buffet. No players cards
then, you had to ask for comps. It
was so low life and degrading, I hated
it. Begging for hand outs..

I've got to hand it to you, EB.
I think most people that ended up living in a two room hovel, depending on second hand candles to heat them thru a Michigan winter would begin to question the choices they made that got them there, but not you. You proudly continue doing just what you've always did and are sure top let everyone know. Mega-kudos.

Quote: billryan

I've got to hand it to you, EB.
I think most people that ended up living in a two room hove

HUH? What are you talking about.
The house behind me is over a million,
the one to the north is $600K and
they just built a new one south of
me, the lot alone was $100K, god
knows what the house cost.

This is a video I posted last summer
of the creek that runs thru my property.
Up's the value by 20% when you have
running water like this, in the summer
months it's like a park down there.

Hovel my ass..

100K for a lot? Is that supposed to impress me. People pay more than that to get their kids in UCLA these days.

Quote: billryan

100K for a lot? Is that supposed to impress me.

Around here that's a lot. The million
dollar house behind me would be
3-5 million in LA. 7 bedroom, 8
bathrooms, 7000 sq ft sitting on
5 acres of landscaping, a horse
stable with horses. Can't see it
from the road, even in winter.

Quote: EvenBob

HUH? What are you talking about.
The house behind me is over a million,
the one to the north is $600K and
they just built a new one south of
me, the lot alone was $100K, god
knows what the house cost.

This is a video I posted last summer
of the creek that runs thru my property.
Up's the value by 20% when you have
running water like this, in the summer
months it's like a park down there.

Hovel my ass..

Snake bites, poison ivy, mosquitoes, it's all -EV.

Quote: billryan

100K for a lot? Is that supposed to impress me. People pay more than that to get their kids in UCLA these days.

WTF? Don't you live in an apartment? Who cares if he lives in a tent by the creek anyway.

Did you burn your $1 ribeye last night or something?😀