When a forum member doesn't pay
Quote: strictlyAPI have payed numerous people on here and will continue to.
Except no one on this forum is going to make a bet with you after this debacle.
Quote: strictlyAPOh no what will I ever do are you serious?
I doubt you are an actual advantage player because every real professional I have ever met would bend over backwards to honor a friendly wager.
You sound like a complete wannabe and I also have never seen you post anything that would indicate you know what you're doing.
First, there is no law against friendly bets between friends. That is why this site has never stood in the way of bets between members. Both sides have always been on the honor system. That vast majority of the time, it works quite well.
Second, I've done business with Aye and find him to be an honest and nice guy. Also, as I recall, StrictlyAP was one of the people who owed me money on the first NFL handicapping challenge and he paid without delay or argument.
Third, if both sides are agreeable, I'm happy to mediate or arbitrate this dispute. Full disclosure, I know Aye better, but will try to not let that bias me. If that is an issue, I think any of the other admins would make the same offer.
Lastly, let me say, again, that a true gentleman honors his gambling debts. It is possible that two gentlemen might disagree about the outcome of an ambiguous situation. In that case, I think the fair thing to do is let a neutral third party make a verdict.
Quote: strictlyAPThank you wiz for the offer but I'm not sure this is going to be able to be solved amicably I offered to run a freeroll for the site or donate it to charity and that is still my stance- I appreciate the offer but the time involved in full disclosure would be incredibly time consuming and I really do not have the time as of right now . If the site feels I should pay I respect their opinion but I feel otherwise at this point
As someone whose time is supposedly so valuable, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to pay the wager than to make dozens of post defending your non-payment?
Quote: strictlyAPThank you wiz for the offer but I'm not sure this is going to be able to be solved amicably I offered to run a freeroll for the site or donate it to charity and that is still my stance- I appreciate the offer but the time involved in full disclosure would be incredibly time consuming and I really do not have the time as of right now . If the site feels I should pay I respect their opinion but I feel otherwise at this point
Are you claiming that you did not lose the bet or that you are refusing to pay a bet you lost?
Quote: DRichAre you claiming that you did not lose the bet or that you are refusing to pay a bet you lost?
He acknowledged earlier in this thread that he lost the bet and would pay when he "got back from traveling." He never disputes that he lost the bet, only the agreed-upon date of repayment which has obviously long since passed.
Now you are just making stuff up. A phone conversation? We have never spoken directly.Quote: strictlyAPLol. This is just so stupid at this point aye cariumna knows the reason and it's not from pms either for you info it's from a phone conversation. He wanted to take this public I chose not to
The Wizard's offer to moderate is acceptable to me. I will also be amenable to any other moderator reviewing the facts and coming to a ruling. I have nothing to hide.
To the Moderators:
strictlyAP has made an assertion about something I said to him in a phone call. We have never spoken directly, so it appears that he is trying to cast a shadow on my role in this dispute. Can I send screenshots of all the PM's to one of you to make it clear that everything I have mentioned in this thread is backed up by date stamped PM's?
Quote: AyecarumbaNow you are just making stuff up. A phone conversation? We have never spoken directly.
The Wizard's offer to moderate is acceptable to me. I will also be amenable to any other moderator reviewing the facts and coming to a ruling. I have nothing to hide.
To the Moderators:
strictlyAP has made an assertion about something I said to him in a phone call. We have never spoken directly, so it appears that he is trying to cast a shadow on my role in this dispute. Can I send screenshots of all the PM's to one of you to make it clear that everything I have mentioned in this thread is backed up by date stamped PM's?
Post the details and take the 3 day suspension. StrictlyNP needs to be outed here
24 hrs? You pussy. Serve 3 days min or I consider you a p*$$ y wet B! T (h.Quote: RSIf aye gets banned (for posting PMs), I'll gladly serve 24 hours of his ban punishment....if that is permitted, that is.
Quote: AxelWolf24 hrs? You pussy. Serve 3 days min or I consider you a p*$$ y wet B! T (h.
I nominate AxelWolf to serve the other 48 hours of Aye's ban.
I would gladly serve 2 weeks to make evryone happy including MR. curumba (he has been very silent , somthing is a miss behind the scenes) I doubt anything favorable will happen .. and I doubt that the problem will be resaolved especially with all around happy campers.Quote: RSI nominate AxelWolf to serve the other 48 hours of Aye's ban.
Ill be happy if I get back my $4.
The Wizard has offered to mediate this, and his reputation is impeccable. I would recommend his services. However, if you and strictlyAP (neither of whom I've met) would prefer, I am willing to mediate as well, since you've met the Wizard.
strictlyAP,
I understand you are feeling under attack here. Can you also see why people are puzzled, at best, about what you've said on the matter? You're under no obligation to clear things up via this public thread, but either the Wizard or I will hear you out if you want to move towards a resolution. Or, if you prefer, I feel sure Mission or Face would step up; whichever of us you'd be most comfortable with.
I find it hard to believe either one of you is happy with how things are at the moment. Please consider a way forward.
Quote: strictlyAPOk this is all pointless I'm not going to deal with this anymore as far as I'm concerned the issues is over- i will not chime in on the topic again whatsoever not go into anymore detail as to the issue - the parties involved know or should know and I'm leaving it at that we can go back and forth forever however the bottom line is I know the reason and for that reason he is not getting anything from you - as nik Ritchie from thedirty.com would say. - I've decided
You keep saying you won't come back to this tread, and yet you keep coming back.
We should bet on whether or not strictlyAP makes another post.
Quote: michael99000Post the details and take the 3 day suspension. StrictlyNP needs to be outed here
Not all rule violations are equal and posting from private messages is considered one of the worst offenses and would result in a punishment of at least 30 days up a permanent ban.
Also, I do not approve of members serving time for each other, unless the volunteer had something to do with the ban in the first place and is partially culpable. A good example was when Axel baited somebody into insulting him and then offered to serve some of the time. A bad example was when Mission served some time for Mosca for an offense he had nothing to with that. I've asked the admins to not do that again.
In this case, I will not allow anybody to serve time for Aye if he posts any PMs.
Quote: DRichI suggest everyone reference this situation with StrictlyAP in their tagline until this is resolved. That way it will be reinforced in every post we make.
No.
The problem isn't that StrictlyAP has welched; the problem is that both Ayecarumba and StrictlyAP are unreliable witnesses.
On the face of it, from the evidence we have, StrictlyAP has welched. However, he has claimed extenuating circumstances. But neither party has provided us with information that explains those circumstances. Therefore we are left with our original conclusion, which favors Ayecarumba.
It is reasonable to accept that conclusion. However, it is unreasonable to take any action that is aggressive. Passive actions: blocking, shunning, etc; are personal choices, and can be reversed if more information becomes available. However, aggressive actions ignore the larger issue, that of incomplete information, and cannot be reversed.
My plea isn't for mercy for StrictlyAP. My plea is for level headed behavior in a civil forum. We should not turn into the media vs Duke Lacrosse.
Quote: MoscaNo.
The problem isn't that StrictlyAP has welched; the problem is that both Ayecarumba and StrictlyAP are unreliable witnesses.
On the face of it, from the evidence we have, StrictlyAP has welched. However, he has claimed extenuating circumstances. But neither party has provided us with information that explains those circumstances. Therefore we are left with our original conclusion, which favors Ayecarumba.
Unless Aye cheated on the wager, there are no extenuating circumstances that get you out of an obligation to pay a wager. Even if Aye said something to him that he doesn't like, that does not get you out of a wager. If that were the case then anytime someone loses a bet you could make up a reason that you are insulted. The facts are pretty simple. Aye made a wager, Aye won the wager, Aye should be paid. Everything else minus cheating is a bunch of crap.
I'll remind everyone that the easy way to quickly block someone is to click on his name, then substitute "block" for "member" in the location bar and hit "enter"
that is the only thing I am willing to to
its not going to resolve the issue no matter what- my stance is the same as it was before
She does give some good lap dances. Ba da bump.Quote: strictlyAPI have also offered to donate to charity
Allegedly baited somebody.Quote: Wizardexample was when Axel baited somebody
I accidentally mixed up 2 different members with my alleged baiting.
Quote: odiousgambitYRMV
Regardless a fair trail for whatever, the acid test of both character and reputation when you think that you are in the right is your willingness to do something about it.
Quote: strictlyAPI offered to meet mosca in person in another thread next time he is at mohegan sun- if he would like to mediate and disagrees and thinks aye should be paid after hearing the situation then I will on the spot pay mosca cash which he can give to aye,
that is the only thing I am willing to to
Although I appreciate this offer, and am honored to be chosen as the arbiter, my problem with it is that it is a one-sided offer. I won't get Ayecarumba's side of it, only yours, and that isn't enough to judge.
Quote: strictlyAPI offered to meet mosca in person in another thread next time he is at mohegan sun- if he would like to mediate and disagrees and thinks aye should be paid after hearing the situation then I will on the spot pay mosca cash which he can give to aye,
that is the only thing I am willing to to
I don't understand why you are drawing this out. When we agreed to chop last year's NFL contest, I paid you more than the $100 you currently owe, on time, and as promised. Why do I not get the same courtesy when the money goes the other way?
_______________________
Many are encouraging me to "take one for the team". The fact that I won the wager,and the amount owed are not in question. strictlyAP has already admitted as much. He has made up a story about a phone conversation as the reason for not paying. We have never spoken directly. I feel like he has introduced this lie to create confusion on the board, and take a shot at spoiling my reputation. The bottom line is this, strictlyAP lost a wager to me, and refuses to pay.
I have nothing to hide. I have given strictlyAP permission to post my PM's, however, he has refused to give his permission to me. This, I suspect is because the PM's document his promises to pay, none of which were honored.
in fact I now think you are disclosing pms because what you mentioned on a chop was specific to our pm conversation -
and was not discussed anywhere but pms
as people can now see their is way more this
and the fact that you are bringing pm conversations into this should be grounds for suspension anyway
Quote: strictlyAPif thats how you feel but you know the truth and so do I-
in fact I now think you are disclosing pms because what you mentioned on a chop was specific to our pm conversation -
and was not discussed anywhere but pms
as people can now see their is way more this
and the fact that you are bringing pm conversations into this should be grounds for suspension anyway
Looks like all those who had the 'will post again in this thread' would have won. Hopefully those posters on the 'won't' honour their bets.
Quote: strictlyAPif thats how you feel but you know the truth and so do I-
in fact I now think you are disclosing pms because what you mentioned on a chop was specific to our pm conversation -
and was not discussed anywhere but pms
as people can now see their is way more this
and the fact that you are bringing pm conversations into this should be grounds for suspension anyway
throwing the flag on this particular escalation. I was a member of the group that lost that bet to the two of you and you both discussed publicly that you were chopping the pot, and we were each assigned one or the other of you to pay. Aye didn't say anything that wasn't known then, as to the chop, the amount you each won, any of the rest of it.
I see no information disclosed that was only in pm's.
Quote: strictlyAPdrich, I havent checked my pms in a month I have been traveling as this is a very lucrative time for the ap that I play- I explained that I do not use credit cards on the internet to buy a card and that when I GOT BACK AFTER the holiday I would go to a store in person and buy a card and send the code
I have played many contest here and paid the wizard as well as the contest with midwest ap as well as dealt with aye carumba in the past- if this was life changing or cash involved I could understand this is a gift which takes some effort to go an obtain and i was upfront with aye carumba with that from the start- clearly he took to make this public so it is what it is and it will be handled the second I get to a local that has a cvs or riteaid that I can obtain one at
the 100 is not the issue I will further that aye carumba cannot wait for me to get to a store after the holiday I will send western union to him friday morning
I was unware that this was such an urgent nature
so as further discussion, as you can see drich I did not respond to you either becasue I was swampped and there was no money owed
we can revisit this after the holidays if it was not paid but at this point my statement is the same until then
I reposted the whole post for total context but this is the key sentence
Quote: strictlyAP
"the 100 is not the issue I will further that aye carumba cannot wait for me to get to a store after the holiday I will send western union to him friday morning
I was unware that this was such an urgent nature"
StrictlyAP committed himself above to sending AYE a 100 thru Western Union. Is strictly a man of his word or post???????????????
I would recommend the same rule apply here, provided the friendly bet is publicly acknowledged -- as is the case in this thread.
Quote: PerditionThe bun is made of fried chicken!!!!
I'm loving what you're focused on in this thread. And, yes, I did a doubletake when I saw the picture, to realize they'd wrapped the dog in Original Recipe.
Perhaps the cows are branching out.
Quote: beachbumbabsthrowing the flag on this particular escalation. I was a member of the group that lost that bet to the two of you and you both discussed publicly that you were chopping the pot, and we were each assigned one or the other of you to pay. Aye didn't say anything that wasn't known then, as to the chop, the amount you each won, any of the rest of it.
I see no information disclosed that was only in pm's.
Yep. Of course we knew about the chop - we had to know who to pay.
@Aye: Just send the messages to Wizard and BeachBanHammer, they both said they'd mediate, and the rules say you can (IMO).
Quote: strictlyAPThat's not true at all the chop was not paid to me by anybody everyone paid the winner of the pool which was not me- so how could you have known
I knew there was a chop by this post :
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/14894-wov-picks-game-2013-discussion-thread/73/#post304324
Where you disclosed a 50/50 chop.
Quote: sodawaterWelching on a friendly bet or scamming on a backing-staking arrangement is an immediate perma-ban at 2+2. It is an appropriate rule for a poker forum and it's an appropriate rule for all gambling forums.
I would recommend the same rule apply here, provided the friendly bet is publicly acknowledged -- as is the case in this thread.
Actually you bring up a good point here - I'm not sure if this bet was actually publicly acknowledged. I tried to find a reference to it on the board prior to this thread and couldn't - Ayecarumba did post about the scratchers he was getting from a casino, but I couldn't find a public record of this bet.
Now, I don't think this changes anything really. strictlyAP has acknowledged that he made the bet and lost, so he's not debating that the bet was made. But technically I'm not sure it was a public bet from the beginning. Obviously it's possible it was posted publicly and I just couldn't find it.
Quote: RSCan't believe we permit con artists to post here.....
@Aye: Just send the messages to Wizard and BeachBanHammer, they both said they'd mediate, and the rules say you can (IMO).
Quote: AcesAndEightsActually you bring up a good point here - I'm not sure if this bet was actually publicly acknowledged. I tried to find a reference to it on the board prior to this thread and couldn't - Ayecarumba did post about the scratchers he was getting from a casino, but I couldn't find a public record of this bet.
Now, I don't think this changes anything really. strictlyAP has acknowledged that he made the bet and lost, so he's not debating that the bet was made. But technically I'm not sure it was a public bet from the beginning. Obviously it's possible it was posted publicly and I just couldn't find it.
Once the bet was acknowledged by both sides, it was public. StrictlyAP admitted he lost and even made public arrangements to pay, which he did not honor.
Quote: thecesspitI knew there was a chop by this post :
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/14894-wov-picks-game-2013-discussion-thread/73/#post304324
Where you disclosed a 50/50 chop.
Caught in another lie?
